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Stopping and changing lanes are two different choices.

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This is copy and pasted from my blog so forgive me if this doesn't seem entirely on topic.

The Coexistence of Freewill and Fate and Predicting the Future

Free will and destiny can coexist. We make our own choices and God already knows the outcomes of them. When someone or something "sees they future" they are just seeing the outcomes of choices and consequences. I believe that any action or choice can be predicted if the variables of the choices are known. If one knew the How, the Why, the Where, the What, the When, and the Whos of a particular choice one could accurately predict the outcomes of events and predict any other future choice that may occur.

Simple events and choices are predicted all the time...applying the same principles to a larger scale should show similar results.

One can predict exactly what will happen when a ball is thrown(how hard, how fast, where it will land, etc.) by applying mathematical principles(velocity, strength the ball was thrown at, weather conditions, angle it is thrown at, etc.)

One can also predict a human event or choice by applying similar principles, you just have to know the variables of the equation. The variables of the equation are many which include the person's personality, location, genetics, history, and mood. You would also have to know the same variables of the people(and their choices) around that person because other people can effect your decision. In all actuality though knowing these variables would require the powers of mind reading(being able to read the whole planets mind actually) and omnipotence. There is a reason why we make the choices we do...all someone has to do is know those reasons before hand.

Know once you predict one choice you can use that conclusion to determine the consequences and any events that may happen because of those choices. If you predict multiple people's choices you can also predict how choices will interact with other choices

again causing different consequences and events. Keep on taking the idea further by predicting everyone's choices(also note that you have to know the environment...because a hurricane could change your decision in buying a house in Florida) you can accurately predict the future...and knowing what the future holds implies destiny.

So by my little theory destiny/fate does exist but so does free-will...because destiny is just the foreseeing of events, actions, and choices. The future is already history...all that needs to happen for the future to become present is for us to make the choices.

So God sees into the future and knows that one day I will conquer the world. Is God going to make a plan and put the pieces in play so that I can achieve this? No. Does God know how I will make my choices, what events will effect me, etc.? Yes.

God could force us to make a choice, directly change a choice, etc. but he gave us Free-will so if he did make our choices for us he would be going back on his word. God just knows the outcomes of our choices...he could influence our choices but the choice is still ours to make. God still can have a plan for us...he is just building that plan around our choices.

This quote(yes it is Quote Time!) from the Matrix Reloaded helps:

The Oracle: Do you see her die?

Neo: No.

The Oracle: You have the sight now, Neo. You are looking at the world without time.

Neo: Then why can't I see what happens to her?

The Oracle: We can never see past the choices we don't understand.

Neo: Are you saying I have to choose whether Trinity lives or dies?

The Oracle: No, you've already made the choice. Now you have to understand it.

Maybe humans do not have free will...but if destiny exists then someone had to create it. Somewhere down the line someone made a free will decision to make destiny because destiny cannot create destiny. All we have to do is find a way to get around or destroy destiny(God's plan) and we will be forced into having to make our own choices....make our own destinies.

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I have come across the theory (somewhere) that there could be an unimaginable number of dimensions.

And that every time a choice is made....a new dimension is opened up.

But all the un-made choices exist in their own dimensions as well.

For example...just then I decided to go into my bathroom and turn off the taps, that I had left running.

If I had not chosen to do this I could have flooded my whole block of flats (I'm on the top) It would have had a dramatic affect on the lives and emotions of all my neighbours.

I didn't flood the block (phew!) but all the things that could have happened if I had....exist as a probability...

Zillions of mini dimensions could be opening up all the time....based on free will.

But there may be a boundry to all the mini dimensions.....that are enfolded within a predestined whole.

Our lives may consist (in the physical body) of a journey through countless dimensions...that we are creating and sharing with everyone/everything else.

Time for that bath now.

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So there I was...in the bath...pondering on the free will v. destiny question....quite pleased with the post I'd just written..

when I suddenly remembered that over an hour before I'd left a small saucepan of porridge on a low light on the cooker.

Leaping from the bath....dashing through the living room....there's a nasty smell of burning....?

Horrible brown mess in saucepan...but no harm done!

Life eh?

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Yes...a one way choice.

No, there are options available, just because you do not like them does not mean options are not available.

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Our lives aren't written in a book exacually. But they are already set out for us. It's just we have to ask for everything that set before us. . . in a sense.

But fate doesn't exist nor do coincidences.

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Our lives aren't written in a book exacually. But they are already set out for us. It's just we have to ask for everything that set before us. . . in a sense.

But fate doesn't exist nor do coincidences.

Coincidences clearly do exist. Our lives our not set out, we can not control circumstance but we have a choice, we always have a choice.

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No, there are options available, just because you do not like them does not mean options are not available.

You are talking something that is beyond my comprehension.

Are you raising a family sir?

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You are talking something that is beyond my comprehension.

Are you raising a family sir?

You just really don't quite understand it do you?

Okay lets put it this way it does not matter what comes at you, you have a choice to perceive this matter and make a choice that best suites you.

I do understand that freak accidents do happen and you do not have any control of these incedents but thats just life it has nothing to do with you're life being already written down.

~Moro

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If there is a book, then it is written that there is a book. And in that book everything is written and then there is another book and blah

So my guess is that there is no magic books.

Edited by ImAlien

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You are talking something that is beyond my comprehension.

Are you raising a family sir?

No I am not. But I fail to see the relevance.

Edited by Mattshark

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concerning free will, its all a matter of opinion so far...

If you're a "spiritual" person, read here...

God created man with free will. God knows all. God created man already knowing each specific end. Does this mean truly can give up his power to know all at the moment of creation, or did He infact create you, and lead you to believe you are free. This is often called predestination. If you belive you are freewilled then go ahead and be spontanious, but... never once will you surprise God;)

Acceptance of God being able to grant free will and know all at the same time is often considered the "leap-of-faith" for believing in a creator.

If you believe modern science, read here...

According to Quantum Physics, Our universe is a reflection of the state of all atoms at any given moment. At any given moment the state of an atom is endless. (Meaning particles have the possiblity of simultaneously being in multiple places at any give moment.) The act of observation or the passive ability of perception in all life reduces the chance of particles being in more than one place, to a very precise probability in which we can calculate. This seems to give all life a small margin for choices in thequantum world, but that small margin of probabilty is infinite free-will to us. This accounts for the mathematically unexplainable anomalies in nature as well.

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I am sure the last post was articulate and convincing, but i chose not to read it, and thus, by the smallest degree, created a point of divergence from the life i might have lived if i had chosen to read it.

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Do you believe that life is already written? I ran into a friend today who's religion is Hindu. He was telling me that he knows a Chief Priest (Astrologer) like a psychic. He told me something interesting. That he believed that there is a book about life in general. Life is already written and its in this book. So your life, my life is written in this book. What are your thoughts and views. Do you believe that your life is already written?

I have read about this "life book" but I can't recall exactly what it is called. What I do believe is that maybe to some extent our ultimate destinies are written but there are many different paths to getting there which we choose by our own free will. Obviously, different decisions will cause different outcomes, but what if in the end, any of the decisions we made only affected the path and not the destination? I guess those are things we may never know until we move on from this physical life.

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In my opinion, I think the answer is both yes and no.

Let me explain.

For those of us who have entered into the final stages of our lifepath (old souls - multiple re-incarnations), I believe the future is predertermined.

This comes about after multiple lives and lessons learnt, and your soul guides you to where you need to go whether you want it or not.

I have been struggling with this for quite some time now. It seems whatever direction I take is fruitless, and life is on autopilot and eventually leads me to where it wants me to go. No matter how hard you fight it, it will go where you are supposed to go. At times it seems the whole cosmos is working against you and your decisions have no impact whatsoever.

Believe me, I fight this daily, but I think it is time to let go and surrender to destiny.

This obviously does not include the day-to-day choices about what you will wear or eat, but mainly affects your direction in life.

On the flipside, you have new souls with what seems to be an ocean of choices ahead of them. They take a direction and nothing prevents them from making those choices. They will ultimately go through many lifetimes making decisions until they realize their purpose in life. That will be the end of free will and their next life will be one with fewer choices. Live and learn.

You might know people life this....Life seems pretty easy and things come their way without much effort. Rewards, money, fame, you name it.

Feel free to comment. I would like to know if some of you have had similar experiences.

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You just really don't quite understand it do you?

Okay lets put it this way it does not matter what comes at you, you have a choice to perceive this matter and make a choice that best suites you.

If i'm holding a key of reincarnation, i will throw you in a drought stricken country and see if you have choices to make that best suits you.

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I wasn't sure whether to put this here or start a new thread. It's clearly not about life being written in a book, but it comes close.

Here is a site for a free online Course in Consciousness from the University of Virginia that says in Chapter 5: Conscious Mind and Free Will, that scientific studies and experiments have been conducted that prove, in the opinion of the course's professor, that not only do we not have free will, but also that we do not decide our actions.

This both encourages and discourages me, and I have not, in the two times I have read through this course completely, decided if I believe this or would want to. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. (Is that 'me' deciding? He says there is no "I", no "doer" and no "doership").

The biggest problem I have had with this is, I've spent so much time trying to get or do or be things I ended up not being able or allowed to do/be/have/get, etc. Would that not be too contradictory, if something else is determining our thoughts and actions? Why all that time wasted on something that wasn't "meant to be"? If a 'higher intelligence' is determining this, then why wouldn't it just direct my efforts to what I can definitely accomplish and be successful with? I suppose it could go to the argument about learning and growing..... There was a scientific experiment that showed a person does not initiate their own actions, and Chapter 5 talks about it at length. But his own argument about how this proves that we do not decide our thoughts or actions is that if we did, we would automatically choose that which would make us constantly happy, etc. However, in my argument, why am I sometimes led to things that only frustrate me? If Consciousness is deciding 'for' me, then why am I not consistently happy and successful? This is my biggest problem with the whole theory of "Oneness".

This professor does respond to email questions, but I have not been totally satisfied as yet with some of his answers.

Edited by Swandancer

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That's a very nice thought Dancingswan.

We decide, we choose but something gonna change it.

I always work dayshift and never in my mind to do afternoon or nightshift because my family is gonna be affected. But something happened at work that i have to go afternoon shift. It turn out very very good changes. Now i understand why something bad happened to me at work because if that's not gonna happen, they wont put me in afternoon shift.

We really have free will to choose but someone always changing it and ended up fake will.

I guess we're only here to learn a lesson and we leave everything on earth when we die but the knowledge remains with us.

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I also believe that the things we do have some control over are not necessarily CHOICES.

I believe that instead of choices, we only have OPTIONS.

In a sense there is a big difference between choices and options.

With choices, you get to decide what you want and this would ultimately constitute free will.

With options, you only get to choose from the options that are presented to you...and normally there are only a few.

Maybe this is to balance life and the universe in some way...for every action there is a reaction, yin-yang whatever.

If we all had free will, we might destroy this delicate balance...

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That's a very nice thought Dancingswan.

We decide, we choose but something gonna change it.

I always work dayshift and never in my mind to do afternoon or nightshift because my family is gonna be affected. But something happened at work that i have to go afternoon shift. It turn out very very good changes. Now i understand why something bad happened to me at work because if that's not gonna happen, they wont put me in afternoon shift.

We really have free will to choose but someone always changing it and ended up fake will.

I guess we're only here to learn a lesson and we leave everything on earth when we die but the knowledge remains with us.

Somehwere in that very long online course he says "You are not living, you are being lived". Of course, he means being lived by Consciousness. This is extremely hard to accept, especially given that it begs the question of why there are psychopaths and so much suffering in this world.

He also says when a person is meant to become enlightened, they will, and not before. If you are meant to do spiritual practices (such as meditation, etc., to raise your awareness) you will; if not, you won't.

If Consciousness is deciding all this for each person, my question has always been why it doesn't choose to have everyone do this right away, and end all this suffering.

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similar to an idea of destiny--well here's my belief--you get to make your own choices--but God (yes I realize some people don't believe in God but I do) but God gives you the choices you need to make and that everyone is here for their own purpose--no matter what purpose it is I believe that you end up the same--because thats where you are supposed to end up...ok--please dont completely shoot down my ideas

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ok--please dont completely shoot down my ideas

If someone is...let's consider them as idiot.

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Evening all ...

I don't want to believe in fate, as I like to think I have some controll over whats going to happen. However, things that have happened to me in the past tell me I should believe.

It would seem fate has attempted to join me and my partner together for sometime. We met October 2004, and have been soul mates since. But we discovered some strange things that led up to us meeting. Little things. I should explain, I lived in London all my life, but moved here after meeting my current partner, around 200 miles west fo London.

We first discovered we both broke our arms in the same place, in the same year, within a week of each other, and were treated by the same doctor, who previously had, indeed been training in the hospital I was treated in a week earlier. When I was little, I sung at Wembley Conference hall. He was in the same audience, watching his brothers piano recital. We would of, envitably been on a train together later on in our lives, as he caught the same train to and from University thrice weekly, as I caught a train to and from work once a week. Other things like both being in the Eden Projects opening ceremony, and going on family holidays no less then ten minutes away from each other. We also believe he came to watch my band play at a "Battle of the Bands" in 2000.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just an old (well, at 20 I still feel incredibly old) romantic, or maybe there is more to this than what it seems.

Or maybe its all BS =o)

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I was on a bus for a fellowship camping.

We passed an area then suddenly my mind told me.

"This is where my wife gonna be"

After many years, i remembered what i've said that day.

She lived from that area.

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Yes and no.

I believe that before we come here to live, we make a "life plan". Basically, this contains non-specific, major personal events and general emotional obstacles to overcome. We coordinate that plan with others who are waiting to come and the plans of others who already have.

I do not, however, believe that our lives are mapped out exactly like an appointment book. The purpose of our lives is to experience and learn. We need to be able to freely react to all of our "life points" to do this. If everything was already predetermined, there would be nothing to learn.

JMHO

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