WTC Collapse.

[Gringo Perro]

It seems that if our Government were really interested in finding out the truth about the WTC collapse, and prevent a rerun of the same occurance again, then they would invite the public to participate in the investigation. Somebody out there knows what really happened. The victims are in desperate need of closure, and time is running out for them to accept the Government offer. I'm not speaking of the internet "Hogwash" like "Laser Beams", or spooks planting thermite charges in the complex, but cold hard scientific facts about the events of that day!. The answers are out there, and they aren't the BS that we are being told by the "Government Flunkies". There were some very big losers that say, like the Deutsch Bank, and Prince AL-Walid to the tune of 1 billion dollars!.

It looks like these guys would have investigated the collapse on their own, or at-least offered a finders fee for useful information that would help them to recover their losses. There are those out there that are capable of finding the truth, but they need a little incentive for their work. After all, there are hundreds of companies that stand to gain billions from the truth. Any ideas on the subject?.

Have a good day, Gringo.

[Athlon64]

What is there to reveal ? An airliner crashed into each of the towers......burning jet fuel melted the steel (which was inadequately protected from excessive heat), and the towers collapsed.

CASE CLOSED.

[Stamford]

Answers to what, Gringo?

Government conspiracies? MOSAD? There are so many theories of shadowy figures being involved.

I have been told that it was the Government who allowed it to happen in order to force through tougher controls over civil libities, increase military funding and as an excuse to go to war.

Do i belive in any of them? Quite simply, NO!

In my mind this was simply an act of insance agression, carried out with remarkable skill and planning by a bunch of religious loons bent on killing as many innocent people as possible whilst getting the most exposure for their cause.

This was coupled with a building which had not been maintained well over the years; a BBC documentary highlighted that many of the steel girders in the towers were corroded and their fire protection foam covering was blown off by the initial blast, which meant that the intense heat caused them to buckle so quickly and thus facilitate their quick collapse.

Such a tragedy will always prompt conspiracy and people who will use it for their own ambitions and agendas.

Hey, but i could be wrong!

My only certain belief is that nothing will bring back the dead of 911, or the tens (maybe hundreds) of thousands who have died as a result of the military actions and terrorist bombings that have happended as a result of that terrrible day.

[alienmojo]

You do have to be careful here... anytime something bad like this happens there are many people who do what I like to call the "Pearl Harbor Method" of investigation. Many people know that FDR allowed Pearl Harbor to happen so America would get into WWII before it was too late. We also know that Churchill had known that Dresden was going to be attacked and did nothing to prevent it in order to keep the secret that we had decoded the German's code machine.

In other words... this was allowed to happen so we would do something more than we are doing.

Not Likely.

This same thing was said about the bombings of Trade Center (it was the Trade Center garage right?) years back.

All I'm saying is.. don't fall into that trap. I think this just happened because we thought it could never happen here so we were not prepared. Now we are.

[Nancy]

All I'm saying is.. don't fall into that trap.  I think this just happened because we thought it could never happen here so we were not prepared.  Now we are.

Thank You........ Your comments mirror mine. Doesn't make us 100% correct, but it certainly points out how easily "conspiracies" are born and then multiply.

Gringo? Please don't take this as a personal afront, but when I saw your topic, my stomach lurched and I entered this forum with extreme caution. "UM" has lately been full of such extreme theories concerning what happened on September 11, 2001 and subsequently, up to what is happening now. Yes, they can and should be bantered about, but not all actions/incidents are of a conspiracy in origin.

There have been exhaustive studies into the 'whys' of the collapse of the WTC Twin Towers as well as those other buildings in the same complex. Do we have all the answers? Of course not, but the quest is still never ending.

Here are some LINKS that may help to sort through a portion of what we know, at least according to some sources. Food for thought, if nothing else.

PBS

TIME

MSNBC

[Gringo Perro]

I think most of you guys misunderstood me in my post. I feel that there was no conspiracy to bring the towers down, other than the terrorist intent. All of the strange anomalies of that day can be explained through logical, and scientific means. I was in the salvage business for twenty years, and I do know for a fact that jet fuel will not melt 3 inch thick steel, even under perfect condictions. Mark My words, "The Truth Will Be Out Soon", and don't be shocked at what the headlines read. As far as a "Trap" is concerned, the one listed below is the one I'm worried about, and I'm afraid the whole world is falling into it!.

Thanks for your time, Gringo Perro.

PREJUDICE:

*Prejudice is a premature judgment--a positive or a negative attitude towards a person or group of people which is not based on objective facts.

*Rigid, unthinking adherence to conventional thought. He/she opposes new ideas.

*Over-simplified thinking. If our great leaders and our enormous government tells us what to do, if our God and our religion directs our lives, then we don't have to take responsibility for thinking or deciding. We just do what we are told. And, in general, we, "the masses," are given simple explanations and told the solutions are simple by authoritarian leaders.

.

[gonzowalker]

I agree that it wasn't the burning jet fuel that brought the buildings down. I thought it was mostly vibrations from the impact....kinda like hitting a giant tuning fork.

[Lionel]

Wasn’t the WTC designed to withstand the impact of a Boeing 767?

Edited November 21, 2003 by Lionel

[The Nameless One]

Who honestly cares who or what happened to the Trade Towers, does it matter that our government are a bunch of hypocritical liers, how can any of you worry about this crap when there are more important people to lash out at like the people who hide the T.V remote, and the people who spit on our burgers.

Foolish is our Government, but even more Foolish are we the people for letting them decieve us, time after time. Dont blame the government blame you, and I and your fellow neighbor.

[Phantom]

Wasn’t the WTC designed to withstand the impact of a Boeing 767?

Yes, it was. But the designers made it resistant against a plane that would crash into the building, not flying into it at full throttle.

[Druss]

Heres a link the BBC Horizon TV programme on the subject of the WTC collapse.

Link

[Lionel]

Yes, it was. But the designers made it resistant against a plane that would crash into the building, not flying into it at full throttle.

How would a plane crash into a building ? It would have to fly into it.

I was wrong in saying Boeing-767, the WTC was designed to withstand the impact of a Boeing-707 full loaded with fuel which is almost 2 and half times smaller than the 767.

Edited November 21, 2003 by Lionel

[Gringo Perro]

Who honestly cares who or what happened to the Trade Towers, does it matter that our government are a bunch of hypocritical liers, how can any of you worry about this crap when there are more important people to lash out at like the people who hide the T.V remote, and the people who spit on our burgers.

Foolish is our Government, but even more Foolish are we the people for letting them decieve us, time after time. Dont blame the government blame you, and I and your fellow neighbor.

*******************************************************

I for one feel that it is imperative that the truth be known, for this same phenomenom can be repeated with just a simple fire starting at the right place, at the right time!.

Plus there is the fact of the survivors of the victims needing some sort of truth, and closure in their lives. If you will notice nearly every one of the investigative groups have a person within it with Governmemt connections, a "Minder" if you please. Their job is to steer the others away from the truth, and that will save the Government over a trillion dollars if this truth were known!.

Anyone with a sharp eye that was watching ABC's live coverage that morning could plainly see that the second tower was already burning before the second plane impacted!. This coverage contained three clues as to what really brought the towers down, but it was pulled from public access in what ABC claims as "concern for the survivors".

The strategy is the same as it was with the Flt 800 coverup, and that being the output of several conflicting versions, and effectively keeping the public's opinion confused and divided. I was one of the millions that saw the Navel Warship off the coast of LI that night firing the "Star-Shells" at the crash site. Even the TV news caster stated that it was a Guided Missile Cruiser, that was involved in an exercise that night. But when the "Spin-Doctors" finished, the same ship was over 150 miles away on that night!.

We seem to forget that politicians are our public servants, and paid with our tax dollars, but they seem to think that they are now our masters!. If you were to catch an employe stealing, or lying to you, what would you do?. Fire the b******, right?. If you didn't, he would think you to be weak or stupid, and he wouldn't stop untill he had everything you own!. Well the politicians are no different than the common sneek thieves, and with their foot already in the door are well on the way to owning everything you have, even your freedom!.

In Japan one of the most serious, and despicable crimes is "Betrayal of Public Trust" by a public servant, but in the US it is almost expected of politicians to be without scruples, and on the take!. I feel that very shortly we will have a re-run of the "Boston Tea Party", but instead of tea in the Boston Harbor, it will be politicians in the Potomac. Have a nice day, Gringo Perro

Edit:fixed quote

Edited December 9, 2003 by Tommy

[bathory]

Anyone with a sharp eye that was watching ABC's live coverage that morning could plainly see that the second tower was already burning before the second plane impacted!. This coverage contained three clues as to what really brought the towers down, but it was pulled from public access in what ABC claims as "concern for the survivors".

ssuuuurreee:)

[Athlon64]

Anyone with a sharp eye that was watching ABC's live coverage that morning could plainly see that the second tower was already burning before the second plane impacted!. This coverage contained three clues as to what really brought the towers down, but it was pulled from public access in what ABC claims as "concern for the survivors".

Please feel free to let us know what really caused the WTC towers to collapse. I still see no evidence to suggest that it was anything but burning jet fuel melting INADEQUATELY PROTECTED STEEL........

[Stamford]

I saw the footage that looks like the 2nd tower was already burning, but this was just the angle that the shot was taken from.

Surely the thousands of eyewitnesess that day would have noticed this?

Fact: A bunch of Saudi Arabian nutjobs flew planes into the World Trade Centre and killed innocent people - end of story.

Gringo, you started by saying that you didn't think there was a conspiracy to bring the towers down - now you are implying there was!

Has something changed betweem you starting this discussion and now?

[Gringo Perro]

Anyone with a sharp eye that was watching ABC's live coverage that morning could plainly see that the second tower was already burning before the second plane impacted!. This coverage contained three clues as to what really brought the towers down, but it was pulled from public access in what ABC claims as "concern for the survivors".

Please feel free to let us know what really caused the WTC towers to collapse. I still see no evidence to suggest that it was anything but burning jet fuel melting INADEQUATELY PROTECTED STEEL........

What would you say if I said, "Thermite, and Hydrogen Bombs" brought the

whole complex down??. There, I knew you would get a laugh out of that!!, but its true. Remember this; Some-times "My Facts Can Be Stranger, Than Your Fiction!!".

Cheers, Perro.

[bathory]

your fact means squat all without evidence, no matter how strange it is:P

[Stamford]

Oh sweet Lord!

Thermite, and Hydrogen Bombs?

Evidence please!!!!

Can you not once and for all put your cards on the table, Gringo?

[thepsychoticseaotter]

Ok to be honest gringo, your predjuduce thing was way off, your thepries hold no water and all of us are tired of seeing these threads give it up and go away.

[Athlon64]

Hydrogen bombs, eh ? So how come the rest of New York wasn't flattened at the same time ?

[bathory]

New York was flattened, its just that the American Government, with the aid of James Cameron orchsetrated the greatest hoax ever. The new york you see on tv is actually a series of sound stages at Area 51, much like how The Truman Show appears.

[Stamford]

And where the moon landings were filmed!

[PsychicPenguin]

What's the problem?

An airplane crashed and exploded right at the center of the building. It causes fire with intense heat from the fuel. The heat will in turn weaken the steel structure, a well known effect from metallurgy. Under constant load and high temperature, the steel structure will deform continuously, a proccess known as "creeping", and eventualy lead the whole building into failure in buckling mode. Sound very reasonable for me.

There is however one concern common to engineering investigations. Sometimes access to the evidences is difficult, and we will never know if they are fabricated. Quite unfortunate, but politicians are much more powerfull than scientists.

[Coconino_County]

The strategy is the same as it was with the Flt 800 coverup, and that being the output of several conflicting versions, and effectively keeping the public's opinion confused and divided.

What flight 800 cover-up? There was none. When ever an event happens,immediately several conflicting theories are all over the news. slowly, as more investigations occur, the truth comes out. If you watched the news the day after the flight 800 explosion, and then never turned on the tv again, I can see why you think there are so many conflicting versions. but now it is concluded that frayed wire insulation created a spark that ignited a fuel cell, or something like that. There are no conflicting theories. In fact, the only conflicting theory in this thread is that some of us theorize that Gringo Perro is an [edit], and some of us theorize he is a [edit]. But either way, they are both theories that need not be covered up.

Edited December 6, 2003 by Phantom