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cyrus11

brain size does not always equate iQ

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why are people always stuck on the archaic belive that when it comes to intelligence, size of the brain matters.. many members in here who claimed to be educated or knowledgable tries to hammer in the fact that dinosarus had a small brain and that they are not where as intelligent as mammals and that they were lower on the evolutionary tree.. it is not the case...it is a fact that diosaurs out competed mammals in the evolutionary race. had not been whatever the catastrophy that wiped them out.. comet, disease, climate.. whatever.... they would have still survived today and they would have their contemporary model of human-like beings walking around instead of us...maybe they've already appeared and flown to the stars leaving nothing behind for the mammals to one day dig up and reverse engineer back their technologies... anywho.. thats another topic.... back the the topic at hand... those of you who are stuck on the idea of brain size equal intelligence.. that in fact isn't always true... the first computer that was gigantic.yet it cannot even meansure up to today's hand held calculators.. sometimes it's not the size of the brain it's how it's wired.. a specie of jumping spider whos got a brain the size of the tip of a needle is able to remember locations and strategize the best possible attack on it's prey.......dinos other relatives the crocs..can even learn to recognize their names when called.. demonstrated by a zoo with its keepers with the cuban crocs.. where they called out names of each individual crocs and only the croc whos name was called responded to the command to come feed.. none of the crocs whos name were not called came up for food only after their name was called they did so... but dinosaurs were a different story...dinosaurs were like birds, and probably endothermic..and their brains were probably shrunken to conserve energy or whatever evolutionary adaptation that gave them advantage... they got microprocessors fraction of mammalian size and probably just as efficient if not maybe more.. take today's more intelligent brids for example.. kias, ravens... they rutinely out perform abstract intelligent tasks over many mammals.. and on par with great apes and young human children in solving problems and yet their brains were no bigger than a walnut.... smaller brain size and higher intelligence also found it's counterpart in mammals as well.... the new homo florensis who had the brain size of chimps yet display complex behaviors and created stone tools and fire... even humans for example..have brains smaller than those of neanderthals, our closest human relatives yet we out created them, competed them, out lived them all... sperm whales, having the biggest brains on the planet, never had the mind to create poetry, wondered about it's origins or looked to the stars.. mammals were not the first advanced creatures, we just got a huuuuge lucky break from evolution. do not underestimate other creatures because of our lack of knowledge of them. thinking with that mentality is just arrogant and "unintelligent".

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yes, we humans beleive we are so different and so smart, and look down on other cretures. they are smart. its really brain sixe realtivity to the animals that decide wehter theya re smart or not. but in reality, we're no as smart as we think we are. not as human as we think we are.

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Sorry, I didn't feel like reading that huge block of text, but I was taught that it's not the size of the brain, but the number of wrinkles it has. The technical name of brain wrinkles escapes me at this time.

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^The wrinkles are called sulci.

I read an article a while ago which said Einstein was partially missing a single sulcus, which allowed for more neuron connections to be established, boosting his intelligence. No idea if it's true or not, though.

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yes, we humans beleive we are so different and so smart, and look down on other cretures. they are smart. its really brain sixe realtivity to the animals that decide wehter theya re smart or not. but in reality, we're no as smart as we think we are. not as human as we think we are.

No we are not, most people actaully have intelligence levels that are not particulary good (some just not good at all). The human race develops because there are some very intelligent individuals, not because the human race on the whole is intelligent.

Brain size is also dependent on sensory systems, more well developed sensory systems require a better developed brain, as does better co-ordination and dexterity. Brain is not just for thinking, it is primarily for control of the bodies vital functions and hormone control, cos lets face if you could but you couldn't regulate homeostasis, it would be rather pointless wouldn't it.

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Sorry, I didn't feel like reading that huge block of text, but I was taught that it's not the size of the brain, but the number of wrinkles it has. The technical name of brain wrinkles escapes me at this time.

it's true for mammals.. i don't think birds have any wrinkles to their brains yet they still have relatively high intelligence and good memories...

the smartest birds the corvids (crows / ravens) and the parrots both can problemsolve at a 5 yr old childs ability.. yet their smooth bird brains are just the size of walnuts...( walnut not including the shell.. but the small meaty part inside). thus akin to micro-processors we have today comparing to the huge energy sapping unefficient computers back in the days.

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No we are not, most people actaully have intelligence levels that are not particulary good (some just not good at all). The human race develops because there are some very intelligent individuals, not because the human race on the whole is intelligent.

yeah, i know. alot of us are dumb. hell my country is led by the worrst of al. Goerge W. Shrub

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Intelligence depends on a variety of factors. Like pointed out, the "wiring" of the brain is very important.

bigger brains does lean toward hightened senses.

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little science trivia:

if you unfolded all the sulci and made the human brain perfectly smooth it would be the size of a barrel.

apparently the folds allow for more reactive surface area, allowing for more neurons and the folds allow it to be compartmentalized in our skulls ( and probably add to the neural impulse patterns as well)

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The human race develops because there are some very intelligent individuals, not because the human race on the whole is intelligent.

Yes!! Yes yes yes yes yes. So very much in agreement with that. Not everyone is equal.

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I recently saw a show on Primordial Dwarfism. This is an extremely rare form of dwarfism and people who have it are tiny, some being the size of a newborn baby at adult-hood. Unlike other forms of dwarfism, they are proportionately small so they have tiny heads as well. Doctor's who treat these patients are often very surprised that they are of average or above average intelligence, instead expecting them to be mentally retarded due to their much smaller brain size. I think this in itself makes a good argument against the big brain=big iq theory.

As pointed out earlier, whales and dolphins have much larger brains than humans, yet most people believe that we are intellectually superior to them. (I personally believe that we really can't judge or compare their intelligence with ours because it is entirely different)

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sometimes size doesn't matter...............well dont tell a woman that

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I recently saw a show on Primordial Dwarfism. This is an extremely rare form of dwarfism and people who have it are tiny, some being the size of a newborn baby at adult-hood. Unlike other forms of dwarfism, they are proportionately small so they have tiny heads as well. Doctor's who treat these patients are often very surprised that they are of average or above average intelligence, instead expecting them to be mentally retarded due to their much smaller brain size. I think this in itself makes a good argument against the big brain=big iq theory.

As pointed out earlier, whales and dolphins have much larger brains than humans, yet most people believe that we are intellectually superior to them. (I personally believe that we really can't judge or compare their intelligence with ours because it is entirely different)

Most dolphin brains are not much larger than humans. The ones that do are generally bigger animals than humans. Dolphins also have echolocaton, which requires and increase of the brain, but not the part that is used for cognative purposes. Edited by Mattshark

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Like I said, bigger brains means more atuned senses. Your olfactory lobe and optic fornix is better in direct correlation to size.

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yes. the size of the parts of your brain that control senses are sense-size relative, but in terms of IQ, size doesn't matter.

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do not underestimate other creatures because of our lack of knowledge of them. thinking with that mentality is just arrogant and "unintelligent".

Brain size is irrelevant. This is true. It isn't the size of the brain per say, it is the amount of cortex. The fact is that no matter what species other than human one may happen to be, the intelligence level can never even come close to equaling the intelligence level of a human. The reason is primarily because of the amount of neo-cortex found in the human brain. But just having a sufficient amount of cortex is not enough. The way the human brain is constructed is the key...a little twist here, a little destruction there and virtually all intelligence ceases to exist.

A good point to remember when discussing intelligence is that: While Wisdom does require some intelligence....Intelligence requires absolutely no Wisdom. Think about it.

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A good point to remember when discussing intelligence is that: While Wisdom does require some intelligence....Intelligence requires absolutely no Wisdom. Think about it.

best quote ever, fortunately many before you have said the same thing with regards to common sense.

but i have always wondered why we as species seemed to be getting dumber by the day when there are so many absolutely talented, wise and intellegent, young people and older people in the world. now i think i understand why.

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why are people always stuck on the archaic belive that when it comes to intelligence, size of the brain matters.. many members in here who claimed to be educated or knowledgable tries to hammer in the fact that dinosarus had a small brain and that they are not where as intelligent as mammals and that they were lower on the evolutionary tree.. it is not the case...it is a fact that diosaurs out competed mammals in the evolutionary race. had not been whatever the catastrophy that wiped them out.. comet, disease, climate.. whatever.... they would have still survived today and they would have their contemporary model of human-like beings walking around instead of us...maybe they've already appeared and flown to the stars leaving nothing behind for the mammals to one day dig up and reverse engineer back their technologies... anywho.. thats another topic.... back the the topic at hand... those of you who are stuck on the idea of brain size equal intelligence.. that in fact isn't always true... the first computer that was gigantic.yet it cannot even meansure up to today's hand held calculators.. sometimes it's not the size of the brain it's how it's wired.. a specie of jumping spider whos got a brain the size of the tip of a needle is able to remember locations and strategize the best possible attack on it's prey.......dinos other relatives the crocs..can even learn to recognize their names when called.. demonstrated by a zoo with its keepers with the cuban crocs.. where they called out names of each individual crocs and only the croc whos name was called responded to the command to come feed.. none of the crocs whos name were not called came up for food only after their name was called they did so... but dinosaurs were a different story...dinosaurs were like birds, and probably endothermic..and their brains were probably shrunken to conserve energy or whatever evolutionary adaptation that gave them advantage... they got microprocessors fraction of mammalian size and probably just as efficient if not maybe more.. take today's more intelligent brids for example.. kias, ravens... they rutinely out perform abstract intelligent tasks over many mammals.. and on par with great apes and young human children in solving problems and yet their brains were no bigger than a walnut.... smaller brain size and higher intelligence also found it's counterpart in mammals as well.... the new homo florensis who had the brain size of chimps yet display complex behaviors and created stone tools and fire... even humans for example..have brains smaller than those of neanderthals, our closest human relatives yet we out created them, competed them, out lived them all... sperm whales, having the biggest brains on the planet, never had the mind to create poetry, wondered about it's origins or looked to the stars.. mammals were not the first advanced creatures, we just got a huuuuge lucky break from evolution. do not underestimate other creatures because of our lack of knowledge of them. thinking with that mentality is just arrogant and "unintelligent".

Good points. I have kept pet crocodilians for many years, and agree about their intelligence. My Nile Croc would scratch the ground to get my attention if he was hungry when he heard the refrigerator door open, becasue he knew that was where his food was kept. Having raised him from a hatchling, he as as tame as a kitten and could be handled and petted with no risk. On the other hand, there is another member of the same species, the famous Gustave, who has succesfully eluded an army of gun wielding hunters for decades, and has capatured and eaten over 300 supposedly more intelligent humans.

Many people including scientists scoffed at the folly of Steve Irwin building his Croc Stadium, for they believed the animals were not willingly go from their seperated enclosures to the performance arena. But steve knew their behavior better, and built it despite their critisism. And it worked. The crocs quickly learned that they would receive more food if they indulged in these performances. Other Crocodilians are trained to do tricks much on the same level as those of dogs, and wild Alligators frenquently outfox and capture some of the best trained/intelligent hunting dogs.

We must imagine carnivorous dinosaurs to have been just as intelligent, if not more so, than their crocodilian cousins. But did some build spaceships and leave earth before their world was destroyed? Probably not. But humans are little better. Unlike the dinos, we probably have the technology to avert such a disaster, but we ignore the danger, frittering away the resources instead to make bigger and better luxury items.

But virtually every human culture does have legends of large intelligent reptiles, sometimes regarded as Gods, and that supposedly taught our ancestors concepts like agriculture and metalurgy. Where these ealaborate stories merely made up becasue someone saw a dinosaur bone? And why are there eerily similar stories on almost every continent? Despite the lack of fossil evidence of such creatures surviving the KT event, this remains a genuine mystery science cannot explain.

Edited by draconic chronicler

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yes. it verys from animal to animal. animals are not uniform, much like humans they hyave there own personalities. the gustave you speek of used his to .intelligents to elude hunters and attack people. unlke your pet and the crocs of sveve irwin. however doesn't IQ also depend on warm or cold bloodedness. in genreal warm bloode animals ARE smarter.

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yes. it verys from animal to animal. animals are not uniform, much like humans they hyave there own personalities. the gustave you speek of used his to .intelligents to elude hunters and attack people. unlke your pet and the crocs of sveve irwin. however doesn't IQ also depend on warm or cold bloodedness. in genreal warm bloode animals ARE smarter.

Not at all. Jacques Cousteau performed experiments that proved sharks were more intelligent that rats, and the octopus is quite intelligent despite it being a mollusc.

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ah yes, i forgot about the octopus. also VERY smart.

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I think it has to do with the amount of folds in your brain,I dont remember where I heard that though,could be wrong

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but then how come, when people whos job it is to stidy this, talk about human evolution, they talk about how are brain got bigger and we became smarte. while these animals, that are smart, aren't truly intelligent. you can teach a dog to roll over, but it doesn't understand why.

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but then how come, when people whos job it is to stidy this, talk about human evolution, they talk about how are brain got bigger and we became smarte. while these animals, that are smart, aren't truly intelligent. you can teach a dog to roll over, but it doesn't understand why.

You do not know it does not understand why. I remember seeing that German shepherd's have an IQ of 60, there are two countries in the world which have this as there average IQ (one is a westernised nation as well)

Gorillas when language train scored 91 which out does most countries average.

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i am just saying that all they do is simple tricks and people call it smart, they then say a five year old can do that. and five year olds in general aren't smart. just because a contry is "westernized" doesn't mean they have smart people. alot of people are dumb, and alot of countrys, westernized or not, don't have the best schoiol system. like the US. no child left behind, has, well, been left behind.

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