Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 14
cheo_vl

If A Tree Falls In The Woods...

578 posts in this topic

It really doesn't matter whether the tree made a sound or not. Berkeley's point is being missed... and in some cases, dismissed.

If no one or no thing was there to perceive the sound of the felled tree, then the results were exactly the same as if it didn't happen at all. In other words, the absence of perception is equal to the absence of the event. This was Berkeley's point.

In comparison to Schrödinger's Cat, we really can't be sure of the facts until an observation is made. Besides, just because felled trees have made sounds in their witnessed past, doesn't mean that all unwitnessed felled trees have made or will continue to make sounds. Incongruities in nature have happened before; they're called "Unexplained Mysteries."

However, the one thing that we can be sure about is that philosophy is dead. If Berkeley were alive today, he'd be an outcast of society -- a "dreamer" with "too much time on his hands." To be sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For some reason I keep seeing Jhon Saffron continully explaining himself to the monk and the monk keeps shaking his head and hitting him with a paddle.

Coens are designed to makes us do this.

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

The idea is to get so confused with the Coen (as in the many pages of answers we see here) until our brain freaks out and thinks of nothing and only then the answer to the allusive question will arise.

For me the answer to the question if a tree falls in a forrest and there is no one around to hear it does it still make a sound?

Is simply YES the sound is there if you hear it or not, just as the air is there whether you see it or not, and the lifeforce is there whether you feel it or not.

SO WHAT IS THE SOUND OF ONE HAND CLAPPING?

RIDDLE ME THAT ONE IF YOU DARE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It really doesn't matter whether the tree made a sound or not. Berkeley's point is being missed... and in some cases, dismissed.

If no one or no thing was there to perceive the sound of the felled tree, then the results were exactly the same as if it didn't happen at all. In other words, the absence of perception is equal to the absence of the event. This was Berkeley's point.

In comparison to Schrödinger's Cat, we really can't be sure of the facts until an observation is made. Besides, just because felled trees have made sounds in their witnessed past, doesn't mean that all unwitnessed felled trees have made or will continue to make sounds. Incongruities in nature have happened before; they're called "Unexplained Mysteries."

However, the one thing that we can be sure about is that philosophy is dead. If Berkeley were alive today, he'd be an outcast of society -- a "dreamer" with "too much time on his hands." To be sure.

Berkeley's point was that the universe is a universe of ego. That we have moved on from this humanocentric pov and established a new paradigm of understanding based not entirely on our own ability to perceive as being the prime 'mover' of what happens in the universe does not imply that philosophy is dead at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Berkeley's point was that the universe is a universe of ego. That we have moved on from this humanocentric pov and established a new paradigm of understanding based not entirely on our own ability to perceive as being the prime 'mover' of what happens in the universe does not imply that philosophy is dead at all.

We must agree that Berkeley was not a stupid man. He knew full well that the sound of a falling tree made noise whether anyone or anything perceived it or not. His question was rhetorical. He posed it as a thought-provoking quandary about our own reality. When I said that philosophy was dead, I was addressing those who were stating the obvious answer and not the real meaning behind his logic. Another way of rephrasing his question is: "How can you prove the existence of the sound if you can't prove the existence of the sound?"

I agree that we have advanced far beyond our egocentric points of view about the universe, but the newest paradigm of understanding our world, especially that based on quantum physics, seems to be pulling us back in again. This may not vindicate Berkeley, but it may validate those who understood his logic.

In 1910, Ralph Barton Perry coined the term "egocentric predicament", which defined the problem of not being able to view reality outside of our own perceptions. "All worldly knowledge takes the form of mental representations that our mind examines in different ways. Direct contact with reality cannot be made outside of our own minds; therefore, we cannot be sure reality even exists." This means that we are each limited to our own perceptual world.

Like a dream, we each view our own reality separately, but unlike a dream, we are able to share in it. Every once in a while, one or more of us view it differently, and that's why we're here on this forum.

If I didn't perceive an event and cannot prove the event, I cannot testify that it happened. That is pure and simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And if anyone asks, the egg came first because being hatched is a defining

characteristic of being a chicken. The egg was laid by a chicken-like animal.

I totally agree! According to evolutionary theory, the egg came first.

As far as the tree is concerned, it does produce sound waves when it falls. Who cares if someone is around to hear it. That is like saying stars only shine when we are looking at them. Very egotistical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So no one attempted to answer my Coen.

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So no one attempted to answer my Coen.

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Slight breeze?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Berkeley's point was that the universe is a universe of ego. That we have moved on from this humanocentric pov and established a new paradigm of understanding based not entirely on our own ability to perceive as being the prime 'mover' of what happens in the universe does not imply that philosophy is dead at all.

It'd be interesting to think that all human civilization is just a reaction to sound that we don't hear: a group of insects scamper away from the sound of a tree falling; allowing a bird to feast on them all; which then becomes a meal for a tiger; and now because the tiger has enough food it goes back to its den and gets caught by hunters who just happen to be poaching at the right time. Now the tiger is extinct and the members of the National Park in which this happened force the government to quit which results in anarchy, which results in civil war that leads to the death of millions.

A universe of ego that sees these events shaped by our own actions.

All because of the sound of a tree falling.

Human civilization is just a reaction to a sound that we don't hear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the question, 'If a tree falls in a forest, would the rest of the trees hear it?' Does the forest of trees have a collective mind?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Slight breeze?

And a shake of the butt :P

thanks I'm glad someone gave it a go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, I have another good one.

If an animal goes extinct and leaves no evidence of its existence, did it ever exist in the first place?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if a tree falls in the woods and noone is hear to hear it. NO it does not make a sound. it makes the vibrations and waves threw the air, but with noone there to perceive those vibrations as a "sound" they aren't a sound

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More to the point would be: "If a tree falls in a forest and there is nobody there to hear (or see it) does the tree exist?

All of existence is created by light and sound but matter/tree is a different subject. We exist in a hologram which is merely a 3dimensional stage in which we have projected our consciousness to experience within.

Science knows that all that truly exists is energy and that the only time energy takes on the forum of matter is when it is viewed/thought about.

Omni Love,Marietta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
More to the point would be: "If a tree falls in a forest and there is nobody there to hear (or see it) does the tree exist?

All of existence is created by light and sound but matter/tree is a different subject. We exist in a hologram which is merely a 3dimensional stage in which we have projected our consciousness to experience within.

Science knows that all that truly exists is energy and that the only time energy takes on the forum of matter is when it is viewed/thought about.

Omni Love,Marietta

woe...

:|

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
More to the point would be: "If a tree falls in a forest and there is nobody there to hear (or see it) does the tree exist?

All of existence is created by light and sound but matter/tree is a different subject. We exist in a hologram which is merely a 3dimensional stage in which we have projected our consciousness to experience within.

Science knows that all that truly exists is energy and that the only time energy takes on the forum of matter is when it is viewed/thought about.

Omni Love,Marietta

Maybe it bouth falls and doesn't. Maybe it exists in a superposition of possibilities relative to those who are not watching and then decided when observed somehow, be it with your eyes or some other kind of information. :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow... 35 pages on the tree theory. That question has helpped me fall asleep so many times. This may have already been said but I know that If I read all of the posts I will nod off on my keyboard, but If no-one is around to hear it how can we tell if it makes a sound or not?

hope you find your answer soon.

who mentioned the quantum weather butterfly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

see this is why i love philosophy, a question with no definite answer can ignite a 35 page long debate, here's another one, what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object? or, can god create a stone that is so heavy not even himself can lift it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
here's another one, what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?

Both cannot exist at the same time, for if there is an immovable object, then there would be no such thing as an unstoppable force and vice versa.

or, can god create a stone that is so heavy not even himself can lift it?

Also known as the Omnipotence Paradox, for which possible answers are found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox

Enjoy. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Both cannot exist at the same time, for if there is an immovable object, then there would be no such thing as an unstoppable force and vice versa.

Also known as the Omnipotence Paradox, for which possible answers are found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox

Enjoy. :)

touché

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reality is perception. If sound is not perceived, sound is not a reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no tree.....

without the act of observing the tree could fall or could not, could make a sound or could not... it is only when an object or energy is observed that it takes on solid form and does one thing or another. Without the observer there to witness the fall of the tree there simply is no tree.... and therefore no sound.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More to the point would be: "If a tree falls in a forest and there is nobody there to hear (or see it) does the tree exist?

All of existence is created by light and sound but matter/tree is a different subject. We exist in a hologram which is merely a 3dimensional stage in which we have projected our consciousness to experience within.

Science knows that all that truly exists is energy and that the only time energy takes on the forum of matter is when it is viewed/thought about.

Omni Love,Marietta

Absolutley spot on Marietta!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutley spot on Marietta!!!!

shhhhhhhhhhhh

the angels are singing can you hear them ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More to the point would be: "If a tree falls in a forest and there is nobody there to hear (or see it) does the tree exist?

All of existence is created by light and sound but matter/tree is a different subject. We exist in a hologram which is merely a 3dimensional stage in which we have projected our consciousness to experience within.

Science knows that all that truly exists is energy and that the only time energy takes on the forum of matter is when it is viewed/thought about.

Omni Love,Marietta

Marietta,

While it is true that we exist in a 3-D world, it is also true that we live in a separate dimension. We are the 4th Dimension. Do you think that we are the only creatures that can create? Seems to me that any other creature that uses a tree for anything can create a tree. Birds created trees for shelter and for food. Every other creature started praising bird and gave bird the most lofty position because trees served all creatures. All creatures learned how to make trees, but after awhile there were so many trees that they gave up the creation of trees and lived in them and got their food from them. Along came the thief and the trees started disappearing. Some fell here, some fell there, and the food was disappearing, and there was less shelter in this 3 dimensional world. Where was it going? The 4th dimension. How do you feel when you see a ghost? How would you feel if a group of ghosts started coming around you and all your buddies started disappearing? Run, Run! But where? All the shelter is gone!

If a tree falls in a forest and noone is around to hear it, does it still make a sound? Probably not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 14

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.