People with true psychic abilities.

[Virtual Particle]

I am not making the claims, YOU ARE, what have you presented!

Cheers

Guardian

Then why are you bothering to post?

That’s why the so-to-speak in parenthesis that you failed to notice. But that's beside the point. The point is that you made a claim and EVEN YOU CANNOT SUPPORT IT, why then should anyone (including Randi) go investigate something for which even the claimant cannot provide circumstantial evidence that something is happening (the preliminary).

The onus is not on me, I did not make that claim - YOU DID, the onus is on you and the only reason I said "very little evidence" is because I am giving you a benefit of the doubt (even though I do not have to).

If you fail to grasp that, you fail at basic logic - and my job here is done.

What is dangerous is believing everything exists until is proven not to. (verb use consider revising) That is what you'd have me do. That is not the way it works.

You are claiming that everything exist until it is not proven to? Does that mean that you have failed to provide evidence?? Good that objectifies the point based upon your refusal to actually verify the facts. Actually in real life once you ignore the point? You have established that the only point you have presented is a personal opinion. Proven by whom? You’re standard of science? you have only proven that you cannot prove anything is that your point??? Have you been paid for a job? Can you provide tax statements? The truth is the only thing you can provide is subjective discourse but that's ok.

* snip *

Edited August 4, 2009 by Saru
Removed flame, drug reference

[ai_guardian]

That depends on where you come from.

Yes, that is true but what I am getting at is that unless one wants to support their claim I don't see anything other than superstition stopping people putting the number 13 on the floor.

I don't know. But if you call yourself a paranormal investigator, you should have a way.

Of course there is a way to investigate it but would YOU go to your city, to a building with a 13th floor (and labeled as such) and be prepared to sit there for how long(?) just to see if Triads claims of "something consistently goes wrong" (paraphrasing) are true. If I sit there for a day and nothing happens is that enough? If I sit there for a week and nothing happens, is that enough? If I sit there for a week and one event happens (ie a person walking down the hall trips and breaks a leg) would that be enough? Would that support "consistently"? Would that relate to the 13th floor even? You'd literally have to study every other floor too to ensure that it is not just a coincidence! He is making the claim - he should do the time - and even when he comes back with some results it is still no good until it is found to be consistent, corroborated by OTHERS, and out of the realm of coincidence or natural explanation.

It is his gums. Not yours.

Too right.

The XYZ-men and ghostly hotels are extremely different. Haunted hotels are not rare. People see them a lot.

Then it should not be so difficult to corroborate using the scientific method, no? Why is it not done yet! There's only one answer I can think of.

I don't care. This is not about me.

That was a response to Triad talking about the "Tower of Babel" having a 13th floor. Seriously, a structure taken out of a religious text that most likely has no basis in history either, to try to make some sort of a point? Have I stepped into the Twillight Zone here or what? It's like me trying to push a movement to stop everyone eating apples because it is mentioned as the forbidden fruit in the bible.

If it amuses you, that is fine - it is amusing but sad at the same time that he would resort to using such arguments for whatever reasons he may have.

Cheers to you too.

Guardian

[ai_guardian]

Then why are you bothering to post?

Why not? You make a claim, I'm interested if it holds any water - so far it doesn't.

You are claiming that everything exist until it is not proven to? Does that mean that you have failed to provide evidence?? Good that objectifies the point based upon your refusal to actually verify the facts. Actually in real life once you ignore the point? You have established that the only point you have presented is a personal opinion. Proven by whom? You’re standard of science? you have only proven that you cannot prove anything is that your point??? Have you been paid for a job? Can you provide tax statements? The truth is the only thing you can provide is subjective discourse but that's ok.

Wrong. Re-read my post and try again. You got it back-to-front. It seem that this is YOUR view.

I said and I repeat "What is dangerous is believing everything exists until is proven not to. That is what you'd have me do. That is not the way it works." (no verb needs revising - don't try to be an English teacher now, I know it is not your mother-tongue)

* snip *

You have not learnt from your past and it seem you never will.

Cheers

Guardian

Edited August 4, 2009 by Saru
Removed quote and response to deleted comment

[DrawingPics]

Yes, that is true but what I am getting at is that unless one wants to support their claim I don't see anything other than superstition stopping people putting the number 13 on the floor.

I see your point. There are different types of people. I have seen some buildings with the number 13 and some without. They use 12A or something.

Of course there is a way to investigate it but would YOU go to your city, to a building with a 13th floor (and labeled as such) and be prepared to sit there for how long(?) just to see if Triads claims of "something consistently goes wrong" (paraphrasing) are true. If I sit there for a day and nothing happens is that enough? If I sit there for a week and nothing happens, is that enough? If I sit there for a week and one event happens (ie a person walking down the hall trips and breaks a leg) would that be enough? Would that support "consistently"? Would that relate to the 13th floor even? You'd literally have to study every other floor too to ensure that it is not just a coincidence! He is making the claim - he should do the time - and even when he comes back with some results it is still no good until it is found to be consistent, corroborated by OTHERS, and out of the realm of coincidence or natural explanation.

Because spooks are ofund to be selective. There are some instances where in a haunted place, the skeptic goes and camps there for a few nights without incident but the victims were very sure that what they saw was true.

Too right.

Then it should not be so difficult to corroborate using the scientific method, no? Why is it not done yet! There's only one answer I can think of.

But I don't know. Have you ever seen a science man/woman spending so much time in haunted places trying to figure it out? I have not, they have better things to do. But those that have seen it with their own eyes very often never see the spooks again. That may explain why so many of those are nort proved, and only come to us as stories.

That was a response to Triad talking about the "Tower of Babel" having a 13th floor. Seriously, a structure taken out of a religious text that most likely has no basis in history either, to try to make some sort of a point? Have I stepped into the Twillight Zone here or what? It's like me trying to push a movement to stop everyone eating apples because it is mentioned as the forbidden fruit in the bible.

If it amuses you, that is fine - it is amusing but sad at the same time that he would resort to using such arguments for whatever reasons he may have.

Oh I don't know, his arguments are still not so bad.

Of course. Do allow me to tell you also that it is wonderful to debate with you about the supernatural.

[Virtual Particle]

How easy is it for you do disregard to scientific method AI, it is almost as if you have no respect for it at all.

Any thoughts?

Edited August 4, 2009 by Triad

[ai_guardian]

How easy is it for you do disregard to scientific method AI. It is almost as if you have no respect for it at all.

Any thoughts?

I never have disregarded the scientific method. Assumptions again Triad. Your memory is not serving you very well, we'd been down that road a couple of years ago.

I have FORMALLY gone through the study of science, on many levels. How about you?

Pfft, it is not worth debating with you, you sink way too low.

Cheers

Guardian

[Virtual Particle]

Dude on my end it is almost 1 am did I sink to low, by bringing up the time

What I have said is that based upon your evidence

Any thoughts?

[Saru]

Guys that's enough, personal attacks have no place in the discussion.

Keep it civil please.

[Virtual Particle]

My feeling is, that if one want to know about the validity paranormal? They should look very carefully into its roots.

That would be to do so by spending some quality time with an indigenous cultture.

For me, that is a no-nonsense way to do so....

Any thoughts?

[Mattshark]

My feeling is, that if one want to know about the validity paranormal? They should look very carefully into its roots.

That would be to do so by spending some quality time with an indigenous cultture.

For me, that is a no-nonsense way to do so....

Any thoughts?

And the research will have little control and be of no scientific value.

[drakonwick]

My feeling is, that if one want to know about the validity paranormal? They should look very carefully into its roots.

That would be to do so by spending some quality time with an indigenous cultture.

For me, that is a no-nonsense way to do so....

Any thoughts?

What exactly do you propose scientists will find by using the scientific method on paranormal claims?

[Virtual Particle]

What exactly do you propose scientists will find by using the scientific method on paranormal claims?

That there is a paradox and that phenomenon is applying energy to do work.

Any thoughts?

[Ashgreymane]

I’ve been reading the posts on these forums for the past few months, and there is something that is really bothering me.

Firstly, I honestly believe that humanity does have the capability to do great things with their minds (i.e. psychic abilities, ESP, telekinesis, etc.) but there are so many people claiming to have these abilities but yet they have no knowledge of anything, some can’t even do the basic things such as spell or have proper grammar.

Extra-sensory mental abilities would require a great deal of mental control and extreme concentration. These factors go hand in hand with knowledge and learning. If someone hasn’t mastered their own mind to learn the basics (such as understanding math, science, physics [or even just correct spelling], and learning to retain information to build memory and concentration) there is no way their mind is strong enough, or knows enough to have psychic abilities.

It is sad to see that even in today’s society with all this information at our disposal very few have time to (or have the love to) really master knowledge and learning. Of course many people’s lives have been preoccupied with work and money as a means of survival that they can’t devote their time to learn the things they should know.

For example what is the difference between someone who’s never played baseball and a pro baseball player? Nothing except time commitment, practice, and mastery of the basic baseball skills. To master the basic skills the person has to learn the basic theories and devote the majority of their time and effort into gaining the knowledge that is needed.

Just like every person has the potential to have psychic abilities the same could be said about baseball (that is if they have no major physical handicap).

For my personal interest (non-officially) I have been researching psychic phenomenon for more than 15 years now (and yes I am a scientist at a university, and no, don’t always believe those that say scientists don’t believe in psychic phenomenon because I personally know many that do) and I have found some very interesting factors when it comes to people that have actual psychic abilities.

The first, and probably the most important, is the fact that those with actual psychic abilities do not want to gain profit from the abilities, such as selling books, selling merchandise, or gaining fortune by being famous. Such psychic people believe that their abilities are a gift and are not meant to be a money making issue. Some within this group tend to want seclusion and don’t want attention, for what ever reason. So you can easily weed out the real from fakes just by seeing if they sell anything or if they are selling themselves (or simply want attention by wanting to be special).

The second factor seems to be IQ score and general overall knowledge. Of those with actual abilities their IQ scores tend to be above 114 (with none being below 109) and have excellent general knowledge (to the point that most would be considered genius). Memory and concentration abilities are also tied in with this, with many having very above average memory recall abilities (which explains why they have excellent general knowledge over a multitude of subjects). Personally after knowing some of these people I would call them very intelligent (and wise). (The large majority practice their abilities several hours a day, and devote many hours not only reading novels but textbooks for fun, and it appeared to me that many took learning very seriously and attributed their psychic abilities to their knowledge).

The third factor is tied in with the physical aspect. Many become physically and mentally exhausted after using their abilities (which caused by extreme concentration, focus, and overall use of their brain during those times). It is assumed because their minds are so exercised with knowledge that they have complete control over their basic mental faculties that it appears to shift control into the subconscious as well.

The last factor is that these actual psychic people are a very small percentage of the population. (I assume this is due to the fact that the large majority of the general population has very poor general knowledge, lower than normal IQ scores, and take knowledge and learning as punishment and willingly avoid anything to make themselves smarter).

So as you can see when I read a post from someone who claims they have abilities that are psychic in nature and they can’t even spell, I immediately know this person is not being truthful. Perhaps if they picked up a novel or a textbook once in a while and actually learned something, and exercised their brains in the extreme they could develop their abilities. So lets face it, if a 12th grader knows more than you do I absolutely doubt you have any extra-sensory abilities (since you primary-sensory abilities are non-existent).

The second thing that really bothers me is these people posting their so called psychic abilities on YouTube and other video forums. I have only seen two videos on YouTube that I can say it is highly likely this person has psychic abilities, the rest are all fakes. First clue, not working on glass tables and having an glass enclosure that shows everything around. Second clue, working with all metallic materials (easily manipulated with magnets). Third clue, having to touch objects extensively before hand (to attach invisible threads) and needing to move the hands in order for the object to move (again because of invisible threads) a real psychic doesn’t need to use their hands because the abilities are based in the brain and mind, not hands. The last clue is zooming in so close that you have no idea what other apparatus are around that are controlling the movement.

Ash here. New to this site, browsing thru & found you nice people. I am one of the psychics you are discussing. I read the first two commentaries. Chortle, laugh. Sorry, but I'm horrible with computers. My apologies for not being more savvy, here. You folks can chat about the subject all you want, however; I live it and it's no picnic being psychic. No fun, not interesting (okay, maybe a bit) and for the most part it's a pain in the ***. I am 42 now, have been dealing with this crap from about 12. I very seldom enjoy it, get used when people believe me, and I am not a huge success story in life. Yes, I am fairly well-read. Yes, I am reasonably intelligent. Etcetera. I was the spelling champ at my elementary school. Oo-rah, go team. I live in the South, yes. I have assorted abilities, ranging from foresight to ...oh hell, what's the word they use for that...when you can sense/see via touch or other senses...anyhoo, yeah that too. (Have had a drink or two tonight, sorry) I'm kind of a Jack of all Trades psychically speaking. I specialize in none, unless it is the Sight. I foresee. Sometimes you see clearly, sometimes you see symbolically, sometimes the things you see make no sense whatsoever. Sometimes you connect with a total stranger for no apparent reason; sometimes you connect with someone close to you. Sometimes you dream. Sometimes you wake up with a taste of the future on your brain. Sometimes you see things you wish you hadn't. And sometimes you get a whiff of something that just makes no sense at all. Most of the time you just want to be away from people altogether. Their mental noise is maddening. It's like having a radio tuned into your head all the time to a station you can't quite make out. It SUCKS. It's incessant and can drive you insane. Imagine this constant mental NOISE. Like two hundred toddlers talking ALL THE TIME. The closer you are to lots of people, the worse it is. I am not all that shy, but I am a wee bit anti-social. Go figure. I love talking to the folks who are off by themselves, though. What the hell---my email addy is ashgreymane@aol.com, give me a yell if you want. If you're wierd we'll probably get along just fine.

[Virtual Particle]

Welcome to UM Ashgreymane....its funny in a way, but working with children is a good way to adress those issues of confusion.

Any thoughts?

[4all2c]

Ash here. New to this site, browsing thru & found you nice people. I am one of the psychics you are discussing. I read the first two commentaries. Chortle, laugh. Sorry, but I'm horrible with computers. My apologies for not being more savvy, here. You folks can chat about the subject all you want, however; I live it and it's no picnic being psychic. No fun, not interesting (okay, maybe a bit) and for the most part it's a pain in the ***. I am 42 now, have been dealing with this crap from about 12. I very seldom enjoy it, get used when people believe me, and I am not a huge success story in life. Yes, I am fairly well-read. Yes, I am reasonably intelligent. Etcetera. I was the spelling champ at my elementary school. Oo-rah, go team. I live in the South, yes. I have assorted abilities, ranging from foresight to ...oh hell, what's the word they use for that...when you can sense/see via touch or other senses...anyhoo, yeah that too. (Have had a drink or two tonight, sorry) I'm kind of a Jack of all Trades psychically speaking. I specialize in none, unless it is the Sight. I foresee. Sometimes you see clearly, sometimes you see symbolically, sometimes the things you see make no sense whatsoever. Sometimes you connect with a total stranger for no apparent reason; sometimes you connect with someone close to you. Sometimes you dream. Sometimes you wake up with a taste of the future on your brain. Sometimes you see things you wish you hadn't. And sometimes you get a whiff of something that just makes no sense at all. Most of the time you just want to be away from people altogether. Their mental noise is maddening. It's like having a radio tuned into your head all the time to a station you can't quite make out. It SUCKS. It's incessant and can drive you insane. Imagine this constant mental NOISE. Like two hundred toddlers talking ALL THE TIME. The closer you are to lots of people, the worse it is. I am not all that shy, but I am a wee bit anti-social. Go figure. I love talking to the folks who are off by themselves, though. What the hell---my email addy is ashgreymane@aol.com, give me a yell if you want. If you're wierd we'll probably get along just fine.

Hey Ash, my name is Max. We seem to be in the same boat, though I have to admit, I have a little more control over my gifts (when I'm not drinking too). I'm 42 as well. When I was a kid I went through all the same issues that you did. The wierd flash dreams lasted till my late teens, but they were never horrible or frightening. Though one time I saw a good friend get hit by a car. Of course when I called him in the middle of the night, he thought I was crazy. The next morning, he didn't make it to work, and by the time I found him, he really was in the hospital from a car accident. His mom ran over his foot in the driveway and broke his ankle. Since that episode, I've been using some simple psych techniques to prevent me from getting too much REM sleep.

I've learned to suppress the psychic noise when I'm in a crowded room or when I'm around a group of people. And I use my gift to my advanage in negotiations and business dealings.

That gift and my clairvoyant gift gives me a little edge over the masses, that I've used to put me through Harvard and make a good living for myself.

I remember when I started to learn how to control my gifts, and of course, every person with psychic ability always comes across the lottery scenario. Not knowing then, that there's a certain balance to the universe that doesn't allow big changes in your "fate", I chose to give it a try. The first few times I concentrated on the lottery, I was able to get the first 3 numbers out of 6. Finally I decided to put in on paper and print out a ticket. The day I won, I got a nose bleed. I didn't think anything of it at the time. So I decided to concentrate harder and try to see all 6 numbers to win the jackpot. It took me about 2 months to get 5 out of 6 numbers, which at that time would of netted me $10K. But I noticed that my nose bleeds were becoming more frequent and I kept getting light headed after every session. Finally I decided to buy a ticket with the 5 numbers I knew would show up. The night of the draw, I ran a high fever that landed me in the hospital with pneumonia and almost drowning as my lungs filled up with fluid. After I recovered, my mom went to collect the money which part of it paid for my hospital bill and the rest I donated. So that's the last time I used my gift directly for financial gain to change my life.

Anyways, I'd love to hear from you or any others who want to share.

Thanks for reading.

Max

[Insight]

Hey Ash, my name is Max. We seem to be in the same boat, though I have to admit, I have a little more control over my gifts (when I'm not drinking too). I'm 42 as well. When I was a kid I went through all the same issues that you did. The wierd flash dreams lasted till my late teens, but they were never horrible or frightening. Though one time I saw a good friend get hit by a car. Of course when I called him in the middle of the night, he thought I was crazy. The next morning, he didn't make it to work, and by the time I found him, he really was in the hospital from a car accident. His mom ran over his foot in the driveway and broke his ankle. Since that episode, I've been using some simple psych techniques to prevent me from getting too much REM sleep.

I've learned to suppress the psychic noise when I'm in a crowded room or when I'm around a group of people. And I use my gift to my advanage in negotiations and business dealings.

That gift and my clairvoyant gift gives me a little edge over the masses, that I've used to put me through Harvard and make a good living for myself.

I remember when I started to learn how to control my gifts, and of course, every person with psychic ability always comes across the lottery scenario. Not knowing then, that there's a certain balance to the universe that doesn't allow big changes in your "fate", I chose to give it a try. The first few times I concentrated on the lottery, I was able to get the first 3 numbers out of 6. Finally I decided to put in on paper and print out a ticket. The day I won, I got a nose bleed. I didn't think anything of it at the time. So I decided to concentrate harder and try to see all 6 numbers to win the jackpot. It took me about 2 months to get 5 out of 6 numbers, which at that time would of netted me $10K. But I noticed that my nose bleeds were becoming more frequent and I kept getting light headed after every session. Finally I decided to buy a ticket with the 5 numbers I knew would show up. The night of the draw, I ran a high fever that landed me in the hospital with pneumonia and almost drowning as my lungs filled up with fluid. After I recovered, my mom went to collect the money which part of it paid for my hospital bill and the rest I donated. So that's the last time I used my gift directly for financial gain to change my life.

Anyways, I'd love to hear from you or any others who want to share.

Thanks for reading.

Max

Answer me this then: Could you use your ability to help other people, as long as you weren't using it for selfish gain?

If the answer is no, then it means you can't use your ability for selfish OR non-selfish means.

You state that when you use your ability for personal financial gain it causes ill effects. I find this very suspicious. If your ability was real, then you should be using it to gain finances for NON selfish gains. And you don;t need to predict lottery numbers to do it:

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

If you could prove in a repeatable condition that you do in fact have this ability you claim, you could use that million dollars to help feed starving children, or donate the money towards cancer research.

Now, if you are going to try to tell me that proving your ability in a controlled setting will make you sick, well, that in it's SELF would be proof of your ability, now wouldn't it?

If you are going to tell me that your ability only works when it is not under scrutiny, well then, that's like me saying that I have a magic rock that makes me invisible, but only if no one is looking.

If you truly do in fact have a controllable clairvoiant ability, then what the HELL are you doing on an internet forum? Shouldn't you be working to stop tragedy? Shouldn't you be working with the police to prevent or solve crimes?

[puridalan]

Insight

Depends on the LEVEL of clairvoyancy. People are like why don't you save the world. Just like people ask millionaries why don't you donate more...it's free will and sometimes people are selfish...so are you get over it. Secondly, it's the level depends on what amount they see and or can control. If there is no rhyme or reason kind of hard to make a living out of it. Just like some people like to play soccer, though doesn't mean they are good. Some play recreational, others are good enough to play on the highschool team, a few are good enough to play college...even fewer pro. You see there is a weeding out if you will, and very few ever get to pro level.

Secondly, invididuals like to have their own lives, some of them simply don't want to be consumed in everyone elses lives and have none of their own. Trust me it's not fun, I have such an 'extreme' case of empathy quoted by a pyschologist that sometimes its hard to have my 'own memories' because I am intrapped in everyone elses thoughts/actions constantly...half the time I am thinking what they are thinking. That can cause tons of issues.

I hate the term pyschic, so I'll use intutitive. Money has never been a thing for me, health has always been the issue. Money can only do so much, health cannot be bought off sometimes. So, using my 'ability' or whatever you want to call it I am going into the medical field to help aid people where book smart doctors cannot. One needs to combine book smarts, with creativity and ability to solve unsolveable problems fast. That means having various alternatives...but that's just my out look on it.

You wouldn't believe how many times I've heard the argument why don't you just save everyone. It makes me laugh. Who ever said that just because you see more it makes a situation easier? If anything seeing more makes a situation harder. Because now you are not just seeing it from your own preconcieved notion, you see it in that mothers eyes...that stranger who seems odd and so forth. The descision if anything is harder because you can see the other peoples thoughts/emotions ideas on the subject and counter it into yours. Basically when you see other peoples view points instead of just your own your more likely to understand. When you are able to understand better you tend sometimes to be more passive....it's not all black and white.

[puridalan]

Secondly, I forgot to mention the arugement leaves out one big portion. Bearing the weight on one individual, and not a society. One person cannot do everything, multiple people have to interact on a larger scale..something which that arugment seems to bypass all together.

And one could retort with, well you are young and healthy have have all your limbs, why aren't you fighting that war?...so very not thought arguement at all in my opinion

[Agent. Mulder]

Ash here. New to this site, browsing thru & found you nice people. I am one of the psychics you are discussing. I read the first two commentaries. Chortle, laugh. Sorry, but I'm horrible with computers. My apologies for not being more savvy, here. You folks can chat about the subject all you want, however; I live it and it's no picnic being psychic. No fun, not interesting (okay, maybe a bit) and for the most part it's a pain in the ***. I am 42 now, have been dealing with this crap from about 12. I very seldom enjoy it, get used when people believe me, and I am not a huge success story in life. Yes, I am fairly well-read. Yes, I am reasonably intelligent. Etcetera. I was the spelling champ at my elementary school. Oo-rah, go team. I live in the South, yes. I have assorted abilities, ranging from foresight to ...oh hell, what's the word they use for that...when you can sense/see via touch or other senses...anyhoo, yeah that too. (Have had a drink or two tonight, sorry) I'm kind of a Jack of all Trades psychically speaking. I specialize in none, unless it is the Sight. I foresee. Sometimes you see clearly, sometimes you see symbolically, sometimes the things you see make no sense whatsoever. Sometimes you connect with a total stranger for no apparent reason; sometimes you connect with someone close to you. Sometimes you dream. Sometimes you wake up with a taste of the future on your brain. Sometimes you see things you wish you hadn't. And sometimes you get a whiff of something that just makes no sense at all. Most of the time you just want to be away from people altogether. Their mental noise is maddening. It's like having a radio tuned into your head all the time to a station you can't quite make out. It SUCKS. It's incessant and can drive you insane. Imagine this constant mental NOISE. Like two hundred toddlers talking ALL THE TIME. The closer you are to lots of people, the worse it is. I am not all that shy, but I am a wee bit anti-social. Go figure. I love talking to the folks who are off by themselves, though. What the hell---my email addy is ashgreymane@aol.com, give me a yell if you want. If you're wierd we'll probably get along just fine.

the voices in the head sounds like a mental condition, and by the way youve explained it, it sounds bad my friend.

also, feel free to forsee anything for me, or someone else on here. thanks.

[UltraThunderMan]

This is the same as the bigfoot thing to me. It COULD exist, but if it did, wouldn't someone have proven it beyond a reasonable doubt by now? There's simply too much money to be made and fame to be had if a person could demonstrate "psychic" powers. It doesn't make any sense that 100 percent of them are in hiding or can't or won't prove their powers.

[cluey]

I’ve been reading the posts on these forums for the past few months, and there is something that is really bothering me.

Firstly, I honestly believe that humanity does have the capability to do great things with their minds (i.e. psychic abilities, ESP, telekinesis, etc.) but there are so many people claiming to have these abilities but yet they have no knowledge of anything, some can’t even do the basic things such as spell or have proper grammar.

Extra-sensory mental abilities would require a great deal of mental control and extreme concentration. These factors go hand in hand with knowledge and learning. If someone hasn’t mastered their own mind to learn the basics (such as understanding math, science, physics [or even just correct spelling], and learning to retain information to build memory and concentration) there is no way their mind is strong enough, or knows enough to have psychic abilities.

It is sad to see that even in today’s society with all this information at our disposal very few have time to (or have the love to) really master knowledge and learning. Of course many people’s lives have been preoccupied with work and money as a means of survival that they can’t devote their time to learn the things they should know.

For example what is the difference between someone who’s never played baseball and a pro baseball player? Nothing except time commitment, practice, and mastery of the basic baseball skills. To master the basic skills the person has to learn the basic theories and devote the majority of their time and effort into gaining the knowledge that is needed.

Just like every person has the potential to have psychic abilities the same could be said about baseball (that is if they have no major physical handicap).

For my personal interest (non-officially) I have been researching psychic phenomenon for more than 15 years now (and yes I am a scientist at a university, and no, don’t always believe those that say scientists don’t believe in psychic phenomenon because I personally know many that do) and I have found some very interesting factors when it comes to people that have actual psychic abilities.

The first, and probably the most important, is the fact that those with actual psychic abilities do not want to gain profit from the abilities, such as selling books, selling merchandise, or gaining fortune by being famous. Such psychic people believe that their abilities are a gift and are not meant to be a money making issue. Some within this group tend to want seclusion and don’t want attention, for what ever reason. So you can easily weed out the real from fakes just by seeing if they sell anything or if they are selling themselves (or simply want attention by wanting to be special).

The second factor seems to be IQ score and general overall knowledge. Of those with actual abilities their IQ scores tend to be above 114 (with none being below 109) and have excellent general knowledge (to the point that most would be considered genius). Memory and concentration abilities are also tied in with this, with many having very above average memory recall abilities (which explains why they have excellent general knowledge over a multitude of subjects). Personally after knowing some of these people I would call them very intelligent (and wise). (The large majority practice their abilities several hours a day, and devote many hours not only reading novels but textbooks for fun, and it appeared to me that many took learning very seriously and attributed their psychic abilities to their knowledge).

The third factor is tied in with the physical aspect. Many become physically and mentally exhausted after using their abilities (which caused by extreme concentration, focus, and overall use of their brain during those times). It is assumed because their minds are so exercised with knowledge that they have complete control over their basic mental faculties that it appears to shift control into the subconscious as well.

The last factor is that these actual psychic people are a very small percentage of the population. (I assume this is due to the fact that the large majority of the general population has very poor general knowledge, lower than normal IQ scores, and take knowledge and learning as punishment and willingly avoid anything to make themselves smarter).

So as you can see when I read a post from someone who claims they have abilities that are psychic in nature and they can’t even spell, I immediately know this person is not being truthful. Perhaps if they picked up a novel or a textbook once in a while and actually learned something, and exercised their brains in the extreme they could develop their abilities. So lets face it, if a 12th grader knows more than you do I absolutely doubt you have any extra-sensory abilities (since you primary-sensory abilities are non-existent).

The second thing that really bothers me is these people posting their so called psychic abilities on YouTube and other video forums. I have only seen two videos on YouTube that I can say it is highly likely this person has psychic abilities, the rest are all fakes. First clue, not working on glass tables and having an glass enclosure that shows everything around. Second clue, working with all metallic materials (easily manipulated with magnets). Third clue, having to touch objects extensively before hand (to attach invisible threads) and needing to move the hands in order for the object to move (again because of invisible threads) a real psychic doesn’t need to use their hands because the abilities are based in the brain and mind, not hands. The last clue is zooming in so close that you have no idea what other apparatus are around that are controlling the movement.

personally.......any abilities are not the same for all........i know personally......abilities can happen without even trying......and there are those that have to concentrate very hard on it.Your personal opinion is not exactly the way it is for everyone

[4all2c]

Answer me this then: Could you use your ability to help other people, as long as you weren't using it for selfish gain?

If the answer is no, then it means you can't use your ability for selfish OR non-selfish means.

You state that when you use your ability for personal financial gain it causes ill effects. I find this very suspicious. If your ability was real, then you should be using it to gain finances for NON selfish gains. And you don;t need to predict lottery numbers to do it:

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

If you could prove in a repeatable condition that you do in fact have this ability you claim, you could use that million dollars to help feed starving children, or donate the money towards cancer research.

Now, if you are going to try to tell me that proving your ability in a controlled setting will make you sick, well, that in it's SELF would be proof of your ability, now wouldn't it?

If you are going to tell me that your ability only works when it is not under scrutiny, well then, that's like me saying that I have a magic rock that makes me invisible, but only if no one is looking.

If you truly do in fact have a controllable clairvoiant ability, then what the HELL are you doing on an internet forum? Shouldn't you be working to stop tragedy? Shouldn't you be working with the police to prevent or solve crimes?

Hi, Max here again. As I have learned many years ago, there will always be skeptics. And unless I provide them with a "Miracle" prediction or action that defies science, they will always be in doubt of my abilities. I usually let negative comments pass unanswered, but this time I’d like to answer some of Insight’s comments to hopefully maintain a little respect on this forum for the people who “believe”. I was a teenager when I went through the lottery scenario, and everyone knows that’s the “me” phase. I was trying to impress people and of course; what teenage wouldn’t want a lot of free money to buy a sports car and impress the cheerleaders? But since that incident, I’ve matured very quickly and realized my gifts were for a greater good. So of course, I went through the “save the world” phase. I use to work with a detective at the local police station. I made sure that he’d be the only one that could contact me when the case went cold and they needed a new lead. I only wanted to solve missing children cases, but there have been a few violent crime cases that I’ve helped out in. It was good for a while. My most memorable case was the kidnapping and murder of a 10 year old in the suburbs of a big city. After several weeks, the police had no leads. My detective friend asked if I’d be interested in helping and I immediately agreed. I was able to get a hold of the child’s baby tooth and the images flooded my mind. I could almost feel the killer dismember the body and that made me cry uncontrollably for a while. But once I cleared the “noise”, I could make out shapes and colors and details in the clothing; whatever the child could see during the time it was happening. After, I was able to sketch the images I saw which gave the police a better idea who to look for. They caught the guy 10 days later, after he tried to abduct another child. I worked with the police for several years until my friend retired from the force.

When I was in university, I took an abnormal psychology course that touched on deviant behavior that could be caused by extrasensory inputs. That led me to ask the professor about more info, and finally showing him my abilities. I was a lab rat for a few weeks, and that made me feel used. He became obsessed with me. He wanted me to be his prime subject in his Doctorate and I refused. Rumors began to spread that one of the students in the course was a freak. Thank goodness the rumors included X-ray vision, and walking through walls, so they weren’t very believable. I ended up transferring to a new school and keeping quiet about my gifts. I’ve lived a normal existence ever since and try not to concentrate my abilities in or at anyone.

I’m sure somewhere in some database, my name is labeled as a psychic (intuitive (thanks, puridalan)) I remember a while ago, there was an email sent to me that asked if I’d be interested in finding Osama Bin Laden. Of course I thought it was spam mail and deleted it. The next day I get a call on my cell phone asking if I’ve read the email and what was my answer. Out of shock, or maybe fear, I told her that my abilities don’t work that way, and she hung-up; I’ve never heard from her again. So it’s only to say, that it’s much better for “us people” to stay quiet about our gifts than to have the world come and destroy our lives for the greater good.

Thanks for reading,

Max

[bigdog112]

<!--quoteo(post=1572105:date=Mar 7 2007, 12:38 PM:name=BlueMoods)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlueMoods @ Mar 7 2007, 12:38 PM) 1572105[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe it would settle debates but, I for one have no desire to be a lab rat beyond the med tests I request for another reason. Even following a theory on my own is trying. Come out and admit you are anything but "normal" and the accusations fly. I try to openly speak of myself and others like me only to get more accusations and ridicule than honest questions - and you wonder why so many hide? It is not enjoyable knowing the truth and having even science in general dismiss you as a fraud, lunatic, role payer, occultist etc... instead of taking the time to consider maybe they don't have the answer(s) or data to explain it but, it is still real and it may be just a matter of better testing methods and better technology to find the data.

As for me, I'll keep the rest of my secrets to myself, the bit I have discussed here is enough, too much for many to even consider. I'm content knowing I'm not the only one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Right, and the fact that everyone with these "abilities" seems to have the same incredibly selfish attitude that you do leads many people to believe they simply don't exist. If these powers existed, surely someone would have taken a stand against whatever adversity they may face for the purpose of creating a better world by now.

Wrong if these ability exist it would not be just simple concentration there would have to be massive amounts of energy taped harnessed and focused.

For instance to logically see threw time with some sort of mental ability you would need to know where every atom and every molecule was in not just in time in space as well. This feat would require not knowledge but some sort of connection to every atom and molecule in the entirety of the universe.

Some goes for things like move objects with pure thought you would have to have some sort of energy like connection with the object you are moving with your mined knowledge in no way would help this process.

[puridalan]

Max

I disagree to an extent. I do not believe taht we should stay totally quite. My own mother who for the longest time was one of my biggest skeptics now sometimes tells me to be careful who I tell things to..shes afraid that someone would steal me or something crazy haha...along with not just her other people. I believe that you should hold your toungue when it is nessecary. I also believe that you must tell people things they need to hear. Though I am not saying start a TV show...that is asking for trouble. As for being anti-social and locking yourself up away from society, hell no...we should all blend together with our quarks to help one another. It's okay to be 'unique' that's what makes life interesting. It's also okay to be like everyone else..it's the balance of that.

Lets just say I am too curious for my own good, stubborn and blunt..not the best combination, but it's a hell lot better than keeping your mouth shut all the time

As for peolple using/becoming obessed with you. I've dealt with this on various occasions. The best thing to do is obviously ignore these people, if that doesn't help you have to tell them no. Only on rare occasion have I had to get higher authority invovled to get them away from me. So, yes often times do I feel used...a lot, however, I know some people do not do it intentionally...and others do..and those are the people you teach a lesson to.

As a wise person once told me, "You have wonderful energy, do not give it to those who do not deserve it, only to those that do"

Edited November 30, 2009 by puridalan

[Mr Walker]

My two bits worth. A little bit of difference is not very useful in everyday life, but a little bit of difference from the norm is more than enough to get an individual into a heap of difficulties in an every day and real existence.

When my "psychic links" choose to operate, i use them, but often they simply arent there.

My life is probably 98% normal/mundane and less than 2% unusual, but that 2% has seen; the police involved, people run physically away from my presence in fear, and me become a centre of mirth and fear among people who know me.(including many young people and teaching colleagues. What would you do in such circumstances? I try to live a life of normality, although i use my talents, when they manifest, to help others.

I find no effort or cost involved with these abilities, but then they are not regular or controllable. Yet when they work, the things that happen are quite incredible, and only the fact that many separate individauls can vouch for them convinces me of their indepndent reality.

I rarely talk in public about my gifts or talents although i have found the internet a safe and useful forum for talking things through and telling my stories/experiences.

I live in a very safe caring and loving community, yet i would be very very careful in demonstrating psychic ablities. People naturally get scared when they see that you can read their mind or predict their futures. Sure no one minds when you read their palm and get it right or find a lost object or read their keys to tell them stuff about themselves.

I once made the mistake of telling the rest of the staff that a colleague was pregnant. It was very early, and she had not told a soul, yet i knew absolutely that she was. She got so upset that i just couldnt go on and tell her that she would lose the baby months before it was due.

All this happened, and it was a couple of years before she had a successful pregnancy and a bouncing baby boy.

In real life, imagine how people react when you just know such things . It doesnt matter if its knowing that someone is soon to die, or just knowing what pyjamas they wore that night, or where their lost/stolen mobile phone can be located.

Even if the advice is helpful, many people are more scared than relieved. It is just unusual, and thus scary, as well as, perhaps, being an unacceptable invasion of that privacy we all think we have as separate minds in separate bodies. One mind is not supposed to be able to interface with a nother one and find out things.

One person is not "supposed to be able" to rove freely through walls and around the world to listen in on, or observe what another or others are doing.

Seriously, i now have a colleague who checks her ceiling each night before going to bed, just because, once, i accidentally obed into her room and observed what pjs she was wearing. I tried to explain that i would never do it knowingly, and secondly you cant detect an "ästral" presence by sight, but that is how people are forced to deal with the unusual.