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The Puzzler

Egyptian evidence in Australia

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I was doing some research on a rumour I had heard and came up with this web site. Has anyone ever heard of Egyptians in Australia before? What do you think of the evidence and apparent facts contained in this article? I myself was pretty amazed at it all. Even if the heiroglyphics seem fake I find it interesting that Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders have similar traditions to Egyptians and mummification processes as well as the Aten symbol. (Don't dismiss it because of the mention of the Gympie Pyramid idol)

http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptaustralia.html

post-50813-1178880465_thumb.jpg

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I was doing some research on a rumour I had heard and came up with this web site. Has anyone ever heard of Egyptians in Australia before? What do you think of the evidence and apparent facts contained in this article? I myself was pretty amazed at it all. Even if the heiroglyphics seem fake I find it interesting that Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders have similar traditions to Egyptians and mummification processes as well as the Aten symbol. (Don't dismiss it because of the mention of the Gympie Pyramid idol)

http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptaustralia.html

Interesting stuff, but serious academics must have dismissed it as a fake or this would have received a great deal of publicity. If those hieroglyps were really Old Kingdom Egyptian, and therefore 3000 plus years old, the inscriptions would have acquired an identificable natural patination. This is how ancient stone carved inscripitons are revealed as a fakes. While I do not dispute there are ancient maps that show australia, or the fact ancient ships were capable of traveling that far, science can prove if the hieroglypsh were made in the last two centuries.

the similar religious practices may only be coincidence. Both Australia and Egypt have huge man-eating crcodiles, so believing they devour the wicked in a kind of heavenly judgement in both lands is not so extraordinary. Now if eskimos believed the same thing, that might be something to contemplate.

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Hell, the Chinese reached Australia all those years ago aswell...there's no reason Egypt couldn't have...it's roughly the same distance.

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Interesting stuff, but serious academics must have dismissed it as a fake or this would have received a great deal of publicity. If those hieroglyps were really Old Kingdom Egyptian, and therefore 3000 plus years old, the inscriptions would have acquired an identificable natural patination. This is how ancient stone carved inscripitons are revealed as a fakes. While I do not dispute there are ancient maps that show australia, or the fact ancient ships were capable of traveling that far, science can prove if the hieroglypsh were made in the last two centuries.

the similar religious practices may only be coincidence. Both Australia and Egypt have huge man-eating crcodiles, so believing they devour the wicked in a kind of heavenly judgement in both lands is not so extraordinary. Now if eskimos believed the same thing, that might be something to contemplate.

What about the parts about the mummification and the Aten symbol as well as the Australian marsupial fossils found in tombs in Egypt? I can see the crocodile bit being like you say but don't some other aspects get you contemplating? I do appreciate your feedback though, just wondering what you thought about some other parts....

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Whatever it is, it's not Aboriginal, it looks far too complex.

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I was doing some research on a rumour I had heard and came up with this web site. Has anyone ever heard of Egyptians in Australia before? What do you think of the evidence and apparent facts contained in this article? I myself was pretty amazed at it all. Even if the heiroglyphics seem fake I find it interesting that Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders have similar traditions to Egyptians and mummification processes as well as the Aten symbol. (Don't dismiss it because of the mention of the Gympie Pyramid idol)

http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptaustralia.html

Well, for a start, "crystal links" dot com is hardly going to be an objective, scientific website are they? Those photos could be from anywhere. I agree with DC - if it was real we would have heard about it by now.

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Well, for a start, "crystal links" dot com is hardly going to be an objective, scientific website are they? Those photos could be from anywhere. I agree with DC - if it was real we would have heard about it by now.

Sure, I get your point, but crystalinks isn't the only one...type in hieroglyphics in Australia, there is a few more than just that one that mentions them, if interested. That's why I thought I'd post them, to see what people think about them. It's one of those maybe real maybe not things that don't get the airing they should, I'd never heard of the Bosnian Pyramids before tonight, does that mean it's not real, cause I had never heard of them?

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Posted (edited)

B)

http://rbg-street-scholar-multi-media-e-zi...ieroglyphs.html

The hieroglyphics sketch his journey and his tragic demise:

"For two seasons he made his way westward, weary, but strong to the end.

Always praying, joyful, and smiting insects.

He, the servant of God, said God brought the insects. Have gone around hills and deserts, in wind and rain, with no lakes at hand.

He was killed while carrying the Golden Falcon Standard up front in a foreign land, crossing mountains, desert and water along the way.

He, who died before, is here laid to rest.

May he have life everlasting. He is never again to stand beside the waters of the Sacred Mer. (MER meaning "love")

There was a moat around the pyramid called the "Waters of Mer".

(The second facing wall, which was much more seriously eroded, details the tragedy further. This wall begins with the badly eroded glyph of a snake (Heft), with a glyph of jaws (to bite) and the symbol for 'twice'.)

"The snake bit twice.

Those followers of the diving Lord Khufu, mighty one of Lower Kmt, Lord of the Two Adzes, not all shall return.

We must go forward and not look back.

All the creek and river beds are dry. Our boat is damaged and tied up with rope.

Death was caused by snake. We gave egg-yolk from the medicine-chest and prayed to Amen, the Hidden One, for he was struck twice."

(Burial rituals, prayers and preparations are described.)

"We walked in the side entrance to the chamber with stones from all around. We aligned the chamber with the Western Heavens.

The three doors of eternity were connected to the rear end of the royal tomb and sealed in.

We placed beside it a vessel, the holy offering, should he awaken from the tomb.

Separated from home is the Royal body and all others."

Here are a few more factoids you might be interested to research further...

Symbols representing Heru are reportedly carved 60 feet up a cliff.

Unearthed at Noosaville on the Sunshine Coast, was an Jade ankh or.

Toowoomba: A group of seventeen granite stones were found with Phoenecian inscriptions. One had been translated to read "Guard the shrine of Yahweh's message" and "Gods of Gods". Another inscription reads, "This is a place of worship or Ra" and "Assemble here to worship the sun."

Rex Gilroy in 1978 identified ancient Masonic symbols among Aboriginal cave art several miles from the 1910 Ptolomy IV coin discovery site.

An Kemetic sundisc was discovered in 1950 carved into a cliff. The carving featured the outline of a chariot, showing one of its wheels.

Near Bowen carvings were found on rocks which looked like heiroglyphs.

A scarab beetle carved from onyx was dug up near the Neapean River outside Penrith (NSW).

Also at Penrith a 50 foot stepped pyramid exists.

West of the Blue Mountains (NSW) a similar 'stepped pyramid' to the Gympie example exists. Although constructed of huge granite blocks stands about 100 feet tall.

Beside the Hawkesbury River, very old Aboriginal rock art depicts visitors to the continent, including those who resemble Kamitians.

Aboriginal tribes of the NW Kimberley's still worship a mother-goddess identical to that once worshipped by Gympie district tribes and which resembles that of ancient Afrikan Dravidian peoples.

Kimberley tribes also include some groups bearing apparent Dravidian facial features and speak many ancient Kemetic words in their language.

In 1931 in the N.W. Kimberley's, Prof. A. P. Elkin, Professor of Anthropology at Sydney University came upon a tribe of Aborigines who had not met a white man before. The professor was astounded when tribal elders greeted him with Ancient Secret masonic hand signs. He discovered the Aborigines worshipped the sun. They also had an earth mother and Rainbow Serpent Cult. Later he discovered many of the words spoken were of Kemetic origin. This is the area of the famous Wandjina Cave Art. According to legend the Wanjina came from across the Indian Ocean in great vessels.

The Tjuringa sacred stones of the Kimberley region include a sun symbol identical to that of the Aten.

Arnhem Land and Torres Strait peoples mummified their dead. On Darnley Island in Torres Strait, natives mummified their dead by removing their stomach contents. Then extracted the brains by making an incision through the nostrils with a bone instrument. After inserting artificial eyes of pearl shell, they embalmed the corpse and rowed it 2 miles westward out to sea in a canoe for internment on an island of the dead. Similar to the Kamitians who ferried their dead across the Nile to the West bank tombs.

The natives of Arnhem Land also believed the soul was conducted to the after life in a canoe rowed by Willuwait the boatman of the dead. If the deceased had led a good life he was allowed to enter Purelko, the afterworld. If not, he was eaten by a crocodile. This belief is identical to the teachings of Kemet where Thoth conducted the spirits of the dead into the presence of Ausar for judgement. Here if the souls sins were outweighed by a feather, the body was devoured by the crocodile (Ba).

In 1875 the Shevert expedition retrieved a mummified corpse and an example of the canoe used in funerary rites from Darnley Island. World renowned medical scientist Sir Raphael Cilento who examined the corpse stated the incisions and method of embalming to be the same as those employed in Kemet during the 21st to 23rd dynasties over 2900 years ago.

On New Hanover Island, off the tip of New Ireland in 1964, an administration medical officer, Mr. Ray Sheridan discovered what appears to be the remains of an ancient sun-worshippers temple of Kemetic style. Among the monolithic stone blocks there was an idol, facing the rising sun with features half human, half bird it stood 6 feet tall and weighed four tons. Near there Ray Sheridan found the carving of a wheel complete with hub. The ruins reminded him of ancient Sun-worship temples he had seen in modern "Egypt" during WWII.

In 1931 Australian Anthropologist, Sir Grafton Elliot-Smith examined mummified remains in a New Zealand cave. He identified the skull as being that of an ancient Kamitian at least 2000 years old. A gold scarab was also dug up in the district on another occasion. His papers seen to have mysteriously disapeared from The Australian Acadamy of Science Library in Canberra.

An onyx scarab was unearthed near Kingaroy (Qld) many years ago.

There were both Sumerian and Mayan traditions of a lost motherland in the Pacific.

Australia appears under the name of "Antoecie" on the famous spherical world map of Crates of Mallos, and on the Greek map of Eratosthenese in 239 BC. It seems fairly certain that the maritime civilizations of antiquity, particularly the early Kamitians, were quite capable of extensive ocean voyages as evidenced by Giza's "Tomb of the Boat".

According to Cairo Times, in 1982, archaeologists working at Fayum, near the Siwa Oasis uncovered fossils of kangaroos and other Australian marsupials.

And there's also a set of gold boomerangs discovered by Prof. Carter in the tomb of Tutankhamen in 1922.

Edited by crystal sage

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Sure, I get your point, but crystalinks isn't the only one...type in hieroglyphics in Australia, there is a few more than just that one that mentions them, if interested. That's why I thought I'd post them, to see what people think about them. It's one of those maybe real maybe not things that don't get the airing they should, I'd never heard of the Bosnian Pyramids before tonight, does that mean it's not real, cause I had never heard of them?

Thats not the point. The fact is, google "egyptian hieroglyphs" and all you get is more of the same. Pseudo-spiritual websites, one saying that the images were "a few centuries old" (well, not ancient egyptian then are they?) and others talking about mystical aboriginal powers, and "legends" of pyramids in Oz.

As I said. Hardly scientific.

And, as with the Bosnian Pyramid, the scientific community has probably heard of these, and probably rightly ignored them. If they were real, we'd know about it.

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Posted (edited)

I was doing some research on a rumour I had heard and came up with this web site. Has anyone ever heard of Egyptians in Australia before? What do you think of the evidence and apparent facts contained in this article? I myself was pretty amazed at it all. Even if the heiroglyphics seem fake I find it interesting that Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders have similar traditions to Egyptians and mummification processes as well as the Aten symbol.

The Abos from the Torres Straight Islands had a mummification process, it's true. But that's about it as far as it goes regarding any similarity with the Egyptians:

The embalmment process for Egyptian mummies lasted 70 days and had two main stages: a) mechanical and chemical processing of the corpse; B) dressing the dead. During the first stage embalmers would take out the brain and all internal organs and after 40 days drying with NaCO3 they would put them into special containers under the protection of "the four sons of god Horâ€. After the 40th day they would fill the dried bodycavities of the mummies with linen cloth soaked with aromatic resins and the skin is treated with oils and impregnated with wax. After additional 15 days they would begin wrapping the body in linen bandages soaked in conservative solutions (13, 14).

Pacific mummies (3) were created by the ancestors of today's aborigines in Melanesia, Papua New Guinea, Australia and the islands of Torres Strait. (Table 3) After smoking the body for 3 days with the help of a fire underneath, embalmers would remove the skin bubbles and take out internal organs to replace them with resin of local kind of palm tree. Brain was removed through an occipital cut and the skin is covered with red ochre mixed with coconut oil or body’s own fats. Most of those mummies are kept in Macley Museum or other museums in Australia, as well as American collections.

(My emphases)

Source: MODERN DAY PLASTINATION TECHNIQUES - SUCCESSOR OF ANCIENT EMBALMMENT METHODS

That page is an http version of a .pdf file.

Please note the above info about the "occipital cut" made for brain removal. The occipital bone is located at the back of the skull.

Now note what is said at your linked web page on the Austalia-Egypt connection:

On Darnley Island in Torres Strait, natives mummified their dead by removing their stomach contents. Then extracted the brains by making an incision through the nostrils with a bone instrument.

So, that author is lying to you in order to make this (now nonexistant) culture appear similar to that of the ancient Egyptians.

Makes one wonder what else he's lying about. Let's see:

According to Cairo Times, in 1982, archaeologists working at Fayum, near the Siwa Oasis uncovered fossils of kangaroos and other Australian marsupials.

No kangaroos were found there. That's a line of crapola fabricated for the purpose of the author's idiotic claim. There were however, marsupial fossils found there. (But not in any tomb, which you somehow seem to believe even though it dioesn't say that at your linked reference.)

Anyway, why is this a question at all? Marsupials are found on practically every continent. Opossums are marsupial. Does that mean the Cherokee people sailed to Australia?

The Fayum sequence is an extremely rich and diverse fossil bed, and as such is extremely important in establishing the flora and fauna and accompanying environmental niches extant in Africa from the early Oligocene to the late Eocene. That puts the date on these fossils that supposedly are "Australian" at around 34 million years old. Not to be forgotten is also the fact that these fossils were dug out of the ground, quarried in fact, and weren't lying around on the surface where some Australia-traveling Egyptian collector accidently dropped them or something.

Want more on the marsupials at Fayum?

Journal of Biogeography

Science Direct

Journal of Mammalogy vol 65

Journal of Mammalogy vol 66

Annual Review of Ecology and Systematics, Vol. 24.

more from your link:

The Tjuringa sacred stones of the Kimberley region include a sun symbol identical to that of the Aten.

Here's Aten:

linked-image

Here's the tjuringa stone:

linked-image

The resemblance is quite superficial.

Besides, most of these sacred stones supposedly depict clan totems and territories. True, they are believed in the Aborigine's religion to have been originally made by the ancient and mythic totems of the Dreaming. But they by and large represent a bird's eye view of territories and clan symbols, as is plainly described in the following picture, taken from the webpage at this link:

http://www.janesoceania.com/australian_abo...logy/index1.htm

From that site:

linked-image

I don't have time to go into King Tut' Boomerangs today. Anyone else up for that one?

Hell, the Chinese reached Australia all those years ago aswell...there's no reason Egypt couldn't have...it's roughly the same distance.

There's very good reason, and it's certainly not at all "roughly the same distance."

The Egyptians were rotten seafarers. That's nothing to be ashamed of, really, since it was a long time ago and hardly anyone else around the Med. could do any better. One prime exception to this was the Phoenecians. Herodotus (though he lies so he's hard for me to use as a reference) says the Egyptians hired Phoenecians to circumnavigate Africa. The tale is believable based on the position of the Sun described by the Phoenecian sailors upon their rounding of the southern continental tip (today's Cape of Good Hope.)

Please remember that the Egyptians made a huge deal out of their sailing prowess owing to their having sailed to Punt, which today is assumed to be located at the mouth of the Red Sea, just down the coast from Egypt!

Wanna see more on this? Okay:

http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/timelines/to...exploration.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Punt

http://www-ocean.tamu.edu/Quarterdeck/QD3....hatshepsut.html

http://www.ancient-egypt.org/index.html

If they'd been to Australia, believe me, we would know about it. So would everybody else.

Harte

Edited by Harte

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Pretty interesting. That'll be so cool if they actually did. And I'm not saying that haven't/didn't reach Australia.

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Posted (edited)

Pretty interesting. That'll be so cool if they actually did. And I'm not saying that haven't/didn't reach Australia.

Obviously though they were in touch with many merchants from the East... America.... etc... as proved by their the evidence of tobacco and the cannibus in the tombs.. http://soupasith03.tripod.com/id28.html

.. If you think about their apparent wealth and influence... what is to stop them from buying.. pirating ...or hiring a functional navy from another land...and using their talents..knowhow to further explore the world... It would explain a lot of Egyptian influences over the world...as some of their scientists... merchants.,.. scholars.. soldiers would have been able to visit other nations... explored the world and shared knowledge... traded in this way!!!!

Edited by crystal sage

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Obviously though they were in touch with many merchants from the East... America.... etc... as proved by their the evidence of tobacco and the cannibus in the tombs.. http://soupasith03.tripod.com/id28.html

.. If you think about their apparent wealth and influence... what is to stop them from buying.. pirating ...or hiring a functional navy from another land...and using their talents..knowhow to further explore the world... It would explain a lot of Egyptian influences over the world...as some of their scientists... merchants.,.. scholars.. soldiers would have been able to visit other nations... explored the world and shared knowledge... traded in this way!!!!

That's still cool though, Crystal Sage.

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In the article, they mention a pyramid near Penrith, i live in Penrith and have tried to find info on this pyramid but can't find any.

Does anyone here have any info.

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Posted (edited)

I never heard about it, Clothears60. I'll see what I can find for you. Since I'm always nice like that.

Unless someone finds it first.

Edited by MoonPrincess

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Harte, I enjoy your nit picking but how do you know all this? You did the same thing to me on Atlantis, are you really that knowledgable about this or are you just Googling away and trying to prove me wrong?

Also Google is not the only search engine on the internet.

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This came out a while back and was a really big deal until they proved it to be a fake....I can't recall all the detail's but i do remember that it was a set up and not real.......

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I'm still not convinced they are fakes although most likely are, I find the connections interesting even tho Harte has pretty much put a dampener on that.... ;) Since I live in Far Nth Qld with many Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders I might do some more research on the connections without using the internet, thanks everyone so far.

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As far as I know, Harte usually does know what he's talking about. In my view he is a bit biased, valueing our scientific knowledge a bit too high, but, Harte, as you read this, I'm not saying this to disrespect you. In fact, I have a lot of respect for Harte since he is actually very easy to converse with, and can back up his claims which is as much as you could expect of anyone :)

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Posted (edited)

OK, my turn to nit pick Harte....marsupials are not found on almost every other continent, apart from Australia they are only found on the North American and South American continents. Hmmmmmmm thats about all I can find to nit pick about. lol. I do appreciate your info once again, I just found it amazing you knew so much about this. Thanks for taking the time to add all the links to back up your claims, I will read them but I am not going to let just one person with some internet links stop me from looking into this further as many people out there do think there is many more similarities than that mentioned in my first link I supplied, here's some more info:

EGYPTIANS IN THE PACIFIC

The late Professor Barry Fell. a former Harvard Professor and native New Zealander popularized the theory that the Pacific was settled in second millennium B.C. by the Egyptians. He is well known for advocating Egyptian, Libyan, Celtic and Phoenician ancestry for American Indians, and applies his epigraphic (the study of ancient writing) research to Polynesians.

Fell believed that the Polynesians were descended from Libyans in the service of Egypt, working as sailors to Egyptian gold mines in Sumatra, and even Australia and elsewhere. He also believes that many Melanesians are the descendants of Negro slaves used as workers in the gold mines. Fell even goes on to call the dialect used by the Zuni Indians of the American south-west as Mauri script and maintains that the Maoris may be related to the Zuni Indians and their "Mauri" language.

Phoenician and Libyan rock inscriptions have been discovered in Indonesia. A letter in the January 21, 1875 issue of the magazine Nature spoke of Phoenician script in Sumatra. Writes the author. J. Park Harrison: "In a short communication to the Anthropological Institute in December last (Nature, Vol. XI. p. 199), Phoenician characters were stated by me to be still in use in South Sumatra. As many of your readers may be glad to have more information of the subject, I write to say that the district above alluded to includes Rejang, Lemba, and Passamah, between the second and fifth parallels of south latitude.

One clear link between Australia and Egypt is that the Torres Straits Islanders, between New Guinea and Northern Queensland, use the curious practice of mummification of the dead. The Macleay Museum at Sydney University has a mummified corpse of a Darnley Islander (Torres Strait), prepared in a fashion that has been compared to that practiced in Egypt between 1090 and 945 B.C.

It was reported in Australian newspapers circa 1990 that a team of Marine archaeologists from the Queensland Museum had discovered extensive cave drawings on many of the Torres Straits Islands. Some of the cave drawings, on isolated Booby Island, were of a Macassan prau which is a unique vessel with telltale double rudders and triangular sails used by beche de mer (sea cucumber) fishermen out of the Indonesian island of Sulewesi. The archaeologists declared the Torres Islands the "crossroads of civilizations" and were quoted as saying "Now it's a new ball game in an archaeological sense."

In 1875 the Shevert Expedition found similarities in Darnley Island boats and ancient trans-Nile boats. Island boats were used to row corpses to sea and leave on a coral reef. Egyptian practice was to ferry corpses across or down the Nile for desert burial.

Similarly, it was pointed out by the Kenneth Gordon McIntyre in his book The Secret Discovery of Australia (Picador, 1977) that the island of Mir in the Torres Strait was similar to the Egyptian word for pyramid, "mir" and even that the name for Egypt is "Misr." Another similarity with the Torres Strait Islanders, as well as in the Solomon Islands, Fiji and Polynesia, a wooden headrest was used. This carved headrest was used to slightly elevate the head, while the subject slept on his back. It is unusual to ancient Egypt and certain Pacific Islands around New Guinea that these headrests are used.

Curiously, on the island of Pohnpei (formerly called Ponape), the new capital of the Federated States of Micronesia. an ancient Egyptian word is important in the government. Pohnpei island is divided into five districts and the governor of a district is called a Nan marche in the language of Pohnpei. Similarly, in ancient Egypt, a district was known as a nome, and a district governor was known as a nome-marche. Here we have the exact same word meaning the exact same thing in ancient Egyptian and modern Pohnpei dialect. A coincidence?

Edited by weareallsuckers

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Harte, I enjoy your nit picking but how do you know all this? You did the same thing to me on Atlantis, are you really that knowledgable about this or are you just Googling away and trying to prove me wrong?

Also Google is not the only search engine on the internet.

We,

You're right. The only part of that last post I could have written off the top of my head was the last portion about the Egyptians and the Phoenecians and the marsupials. I had to google the mummy stuff so I could check to see if it was real. Obviously it is real, but not similar at all to the Egyptian process. Much more similar to natural dessication, which has been practiced by peoples in the Americas, only accelerated with three days of smoking - will you now claim this is the origin of barbecue? I mean, cannibalism was practiced around the area until a hundred years ago or so, wasn't it? How about a pimitive three day kegger with a finale of long pig?

Just kidding.

No really, I do know a lot about the Egyptians, though it never was my intent to learn about them. They were always very boring to me. I sort of backed into the info about Egypt through researching Atlantis. Once Schoch's theory about the Sphinx came out, I became more interested and eventually became fascinated.

You might not believe this, but I started out in the seventies as a "true believer" in the Ancient Astronaut nonsense put out by Erik VonDaniken! I found out he'd lied - he actually admitted forging evidence:

Von Däniken has used photographs of pottery depicting UFOs, claiming that the pottery came from an archaeological dig dating back to biblical times. The television series 'Nova' determined that this was a fraud - they even located the potter involved. When confronted with this evidence, von Däniken argued that the deception was justified because some people would only believe his theories if they saw actual proof (Shown on UK television in the Horizon, BBC documentary, "The Case of the Ancient Astronauts," first aired 3/8/78).

Source: SkepticWiki

Subsequent fact checking by me of other spurious claims made by this con man, and several others, have resulted in my accumulating a veritable treasure trove of information - mostly these days in my own memory due to the loss of my last two hard drives - debunking the claptrap these thieves attempt to foist upon you and I.

The Australian heiroglyphic controversy I had heard of, and had links to why they are fakes, most of them, and the rest not related to Egypt. I don't have the links, but you can probably find the sites yourself if you go look. Isis 999 had it right. They were shown to be spurious a couple of years ago. The mummy part was a new edition to the story that I'd not checked on. I didn't save those links, but they are here for everyone unless this site goes down.

As for Google not being the only search engine, that's true too. It is the one I use the most. Maybe I should just go over to ATS and search for my old posts there instead of using google. Then I could copy and paste those posts here and save time, a lot of those old posts contain some of the links I have lost that were on my old hard drive.

Anyway, what's wrong with checking facts? Does the use of one particular search engine invalidate the results of fact checking?

Harte

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Obviously though they were in touch with many merchants from the East... America.... etc... as proved by their the evidence of tobacco and the cannibus in the tombs...

This so-called "evidence" in fact proves no such thing. At least, not to the actual researchers that discovered it, anyway. Here's part of a 1995 interview with the very same people that discovered this, the ones so often cited in all the hoo-haw websites on this subject

Even so there must be adequate explanations that can account for the presence of hashish, nicotine and cocaine in the mummies analysed by Dr Svetlana Balabanova that do not depend on the conviction that the ancient Egyptians and Americans traded drugs across the Atlantic. To evaluate this evidence further I contacted Prof. Wolfgang Pirsig and Prof Svetlana Balabanova, Dr Franz Parsche sadly died in an accident in 1995.

SNIP

Q. Are there any plant sources known to have been available to the Ancient Egyptians between 1070BC - 395AD containing nicotine, cocaine, or THC?

WP: For nicotine the two articles of Balabanova contain references of plants containing nicotine in this period, but nobody has proven this exactly with a contemporary map of plants for Egypt.

SB: It is known that cocaine is the principal alkaloid of the leaves of Erythroxylum coca. Cocaine is present also in other Erythroxylum species native to South Africa, Madagascar and Mauritius in amounts less than those found in Erythroxylum coca. However, it is possible that in antiquity a way to concentrate cocaine was known. Professor Michael Montagne reported that South American shamans concentrated nicotine routinely into a thick black syrup. Moreover, it is also possible, that in ancient Egypt, plants containing cocaine were present.

SNIP

Q. Do these results support an established trans-Atlantic trading route between Egypt and South America that predates Columbus (1492AD)?

WP: No, this conclusion cannot be made from the Ulm findings.

Q. Could they indicate the possibility of a distant trading route across the Pacific between South America, Asia and Africa?

WP: No, this conclusion cannot be made from the Ulm findings.

Q. Do you favour any particular interpretation of your results?

WP: As the Ulm findings are gained from a few specimens of a few sites in the huge world without other contemporary background information I don’t dare to interpret them in any particular cultural context.

Source: The Stoned Age?

If you think about their apparent wealth and influence... what is to stop them from buying.. pirating ...or hiring a functional navy from another land...and using their talents..knowhow to further explore the world... It would explain a lot of Egyptian influences over the world...

It would if there were any "Egyptian influences over the world."

OK, my turn to nit pick Harte....marsupials are not found on almost every other continent, apart from Australia they are only found on the North American and South American continents. Hmmmmmmm thats about all I can find to nit pick about. lol.

That's news to me and the rest of the world. One of the links from my post mentions that Asia is the only continent without marsupial fossils, and there's little doubt that they are there somewhere.

I don't remember which link, but the ones about the marsupial fossils are only links to abstracts of scholarly papers, so they don't take long to read. You'll find it there.

I do appreciate your info once again, I just found it amazing you knew so much about this. Thanks for taking the time to add all the links to back up your claims, I will read them but I am not going to let just one person with some internet links stop me from looking into this further...

Certainly not. You, and others here that feel I try to "disprove" everything they post should look at the other side of that coin as well. Did it ever occur to you that maybe I'm trying to prove what you find?

I wouldn't be here if I wasn't interested in this stuff, would I?

But I will never again simply swallow a line of crap from some pseudohistorian about what happened in the ancient past. Most of those guys, I have found (through hard work on my part, mind you,) use small portions of established fact and leave out entire volumes of known data to make their claims seem legitimate. I could come up with a hundred examples right now, without using google. But I won't because I know you know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, I try to verify what is claimed here and elsewhere because I wish and hope that it is true! Not because I want to debunk everything but some orthodox view. I'm simply not that one-dimensional myself.

EGYPTIANS IN THE PACIFIC

The late Professor Barry Fell. a former Harvard Professor and native New Zealander popularized the theory that the Pacific was settled in second millennium B.C. by the Egyptians. He is well known for advocating Egyptian, Libyan, Celtic and Phoenician ancestry for American Indians, and applies his epigraphic (the study of ancient writing) research to Polynesians...

You lost me here with the mention of Barry Fell (a marine biologist, by the way, and not a historian or linguist). I have good reason to never, ever again trust anything that man ever said. If you want to arrive at a similar opinion, begin here:

http://ydli.org/dakinfo/celticp.htm

That's a starter. Use the dreaded Google on Fell and Ogham and you'll get info about how Fell "translated" some of this script over the phone without even seeing it himself, and the translation ended up being used in one of his books.

There is an excellent example out there somewhere of Fell's blundering attempts at translation, uncluding some marks that were obviously made in the 1930's that Fell "translated" as preColumbian Ogham from the Celts. Had a link on my old hard drive. You might find it in one of my posts at ATS if you go there. Search under my name and "Fell Ogham." I'd do it myself, but ATS no longer loads well for me - they updated.

Harte

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Posted (edited)

I still think that just because Erik Von Danikan forged some info to support his theory... it doesn't mean that his ideas are all sham....He succeeded in throwing us out of our comfort zone of indoctrined...and getting us to take a whole new look at this world... opened our imaginations... to explore new and exciting possiblities... that can also fit in with the facts as we know them....

and for any other historian.... eg Fell...(just because he was a qualified biologist...it doesn't distract from the fact that he had a real passion for histor/archeology!!!... what is a degree/qualification ..anyway..other than a few assessed essays... assignments.. thesis... that prove that the writer has enough knowledge of the topic to pass the subject) docorates... Masters.. in the subjects mean that they can think for them selves.. not regurgitate facts..that other scholars believe to be true)...

Does a skilled artist ..or chef need a qualification????...

and the answers... of Prof. Wolfgang Pirsig... think of his statements as taken in a court of law... sure they can not prove them 100%... nor can they disprove it100%!!!... the cases would be aquitted!!!!

Thinking that way ... eg.. that there is no 100% provable evidence.. therefore any idea in that field must be abandoned.. sets up walls...for future explorations.. so if someone does come up with fractions of evidence to support this discredited idea.... scholars.. historians.. etc.. will perhaps refuse to look at it as the idea..and so this new info will be put on the anomolie pile.. buried for ages.. until someone else is brave enough.. to remove these political... ( as I feel that much of history ..scholastic acceptance of facts is political..eg .. they decide what info will be accepted/published with their approval.....eg if it fits in with their idea of accepted reality...)..red tape.. and dust off some of the old discoveries/ideas.. artifacts.. ..if they are not lost forever... and piece them together...to create a better understanding of how things were...

Remember the idea of Dinasaurs is only a little over 180 years old!!!! ... can you imagine what those scientists people .. went thru...

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/...ils/First.shtml

The First Dinosaur Fossil Scientifically Described

The first dinosaur to be described scientifically was Megalosaurus. This genus was named in 1824, by William Buckland; Gideon Mantell (not Ferdinand August von Ritgen) assigned the scientific type species name, Megalosaurus bucklandii. Buckland (1784-1856) was a British fossil hunter and clergyman who discovered collected fossils. (Note: the first dinosaur found was Iguanodon, but it was named and described later than Megalodon.)

Before that they were seen as bones of giants.... :D or dragons... I'm not saying that they didn't exist... as there is enough historical records of them.....

Edited by crystal sage

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Hi again Harte, just on the marsupials, I think we got a bit mixed up on that one, your sentence was: Marsupials are found on practically every continent. I now know you meant: Marsupial fossils are found on practically every continent. In the context of the paragraph I guess this is what you meant, I of course took it as a literal sentence. You get that in nit picking, unless things are stated exact it's easy to make something else from it.

"Everyone is familiar with the very unique animals found in Australia that are found no where else on earth- most of these are what we call "marsupials", which are characterized by their premature birth and continued development while attached to the nipples on the lower belly of it's mother. Most of these have the familiar "pouch", or "marsupium", which is how they received their name. These include kangaroos, wallabies, wombats, koalas and a large number of rodent-like forms. In Australia and the islands surrounding them (in the areas once above water prior to the rise in sea-level) there are about 170 species of marsupials. The only other place on earth where marsupials are found are in South, Central and North America. Consisting of 2 families of about 65 to 70 species, all but one are found from Mexico to Argentina. Above Mexico to southern Canada is found only "Didelphis Marsupialis", our familiar "possum". Yet fossil remains of marsupials have been found all over the world."

I get that you are trying to prove by disproving, I did the same thing with the 9/11 conspiracy, I didn't go into the theorists websites, I went into the disbelievers websites. I'm glad you joined in here, it has provided much to think about and research.

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I still think that just because Erik Von Danikan forged some info to support his theory... it doesn't mean that his ideas are all sham....He succeeded in throwing us out of our comfort zone of indoctrined...and getting us to take a whole new look at this world... opened our imaginations... to explore new and exciting possiblities... that can also fit in with the facts as we know them....

and for any other historian.... eg Fell...(just because he was a qualified biologist...it doesn't distract from the fact that he had a real passion for histor/archeology!!!... what is a degree/qualification ..anyway..other than a few assessed essays... assignments.. thesis... that prove that the writer has enough knowledge of the topic to pass the subject) docorates... Masters.. in the subjects mean that they can think for them selves.. not regurgitate facts..that other scholars believe to be true)...

Does a skilled artist ..or chef need a qualification????...

and the answers... of Prof. Wolfgang Pirsig... think of his statements as taken in a court of law... sure they can not prove them 100%... nor can they disprove it100%!!!... the cases would be aquitted!!!!

Thinking that way ... eg.. that there is no 100% provable evidence.. therefore any idea in that field must be abandoned.. sets up walls...for future explorations.. so if someone does come up with fractions of evidence to support this discredited idea.... scholars.. historians.. etc.. will perhaps refuse to look at it as the idea..and so this new info will be put on the anomolie pile.. buried for ages.. until someone else is brave enough.. to remove these political... ( as I feel that much of history ..scholastic acceptance of facts is political..eg .. they decide what info will be accepted/published with their approval.....eg if it fits in with their idea of accepted reality...)..red tape.. and dust off some of the old discoveries/ideas.. artifacts.. ..if they are not lost forever... and piece them together...to create a better understanding of how things were...

Remember the idea of Dinasaurs is only a little over 180 years old!!!! ... can you imagine what those scientists people .. went thru...

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/...ils/First.shtml

Before that they were seen as bones of giants.... :D or dragons... I'm not saying that they didn't exist... as there is enough historical records of them.....

That is an excellent post Crystal Sage!! Absolutely, if we all stopped investigating because someone has apparently or thinks they have proved or disproved it, there is always more to discover and question in my book. I question everything and everyone, even if it looks 100% true or false there is still room for more investigating.

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