Giant skeletons in North America/Grand Canyon

[Swede]

Anywhere we could actually read the article or even the paper? I'm very interrested in seeing what you found. I might not be a schooled archeologist nor historian, but I am as well versed as any self thought person can be, certainly not a ninkenpoop when it comes to science. And no worries, if there's something I don't get I'll ask, I allways do.

TheSearcher - Thanks for your interest in this site! However, for the moment, I'm afraid we must hold back on any new release of information. Lest you think I'm being elusive (or "mysterious"!), allow me to explain;

As previously alluded to, we have had a great deal of trouble with the accuracy of press reports. In fact, I no longer trust the veracity of anything appearing in general print media. There were occasions where we would spend over an hour with reporters, explaining the research in detail. They would then grab one quote (often an "aside") and build a story around it. I even had one "reporter" splice two disparate quotes together, thus altering the intended meaning! These reports were then picked up by wire services and further distorted. Frustrating! And don't even mention Public Radio! Most distasteful!

In addition, the available press material was based on preliminary findings and is now, in light of recent discoveries, quite out of date.

As far as the upcoming report, it would be unwise and unprofessional to start "leaking" bits and pieces that could be misinterpreted or misconstrued. By nature of the complexity of the site, the report will be (is) quite extensive and involved. To accurately interpret the site requires a firm understanding of geomorphology, soils formation, glaciology and climatology, not to mention lithic technologies (including thermal alteration and bi-polar reduction). And then there are the phytolith studies. As you can see, too much to present in a format such as this.

With the above noted, I believe I could provide you with a copy of the report upon completion. There is, on this site, a mechanism for you to contact me directly. I don't know how it works (!), but I have been contacted by other members. If you would wish to provide me with a means of contacting you, I would be happy to transfer the material to you when available.

Workable?

Swede

[Black..Death]

..Wow

[TheSearcher]

TheSearcher - Thanks for your interest in this site! However, for the moment, I'm afraid we must hold back on any new release of information. Lest you think I'm being elusive (or "mysterious"!), allow me to explain;

As previously alluded to, we have had a great deal of trouble with the accuracy of press reports. In fact, I no longer trust the veracity of anything appearing in general print media. There were occasions where we would spend over an hour with reporters, explaining the research in detail. They would then grab one quote (often an "aside") and build a story around it. I even had one "reporter" splice two disparate quotes together, thus altering the intended meaning! These reports were then picked up by wire services and further distorted. Frustrating! And don't even mention Public Radio! Most distasteful!

In addition, the available press material was based on preliminary findings and is now, in light of recent discoveries, quite out of date.

As far as the upcoming report, it would be unwise and unprofessional to start "leaking" bits and pieces that could be misinterpreted or misconstrued. By nature of the complexity of the site, the report will be (is) quite extensive and involved. To accurately interpret the site requires a firm understanding of geomorphology, soils formation, glaciology and climatology, not to mention lithic technologies (including thermal alteration and bi-polar reduction). And then there are the phytolith studies. As you can see, too much to present in a format such as this.

With the above noted, I believe I could provide you with a copy of the report upon completion. There is, on this site, a mechanism for you to contact me directly. I don't know how it works (!), but I have been contacted by other members. If you would wish to provide me with a means of contacting you, I would be happy to transfer the material to you when available.

Workable?

Swede

Works for me and no worries, I understand totally, reporters are a pain in the butt on the best of days, that usually have no understanding of what you are actually saying. I had my issues with them as well, so I aint a big fan of them either.

And yes I would very much be interrested in a copy, once you are done and it is ready to be released.

[Swede]

Works for me and no worries, I understand totally, reporters are a pain in the butt on the best of days, that usually have no understanding of what you are actually saying. I had my issues with them as well, so I aint a big fan of them either.

And yes I would very much be interrested in a copy, once you are done and it is ready to be released.

Will make it so!

[TheSearcher]

Will make it so!

Got the PM too, nice to se that actually works

[Sceptical believer]

the article is from the Phoenix gazette. march 1909. there was one in april as well and one a year earlier that mentioned the find.

I have spent seven years researching this, and hiked the grand canyon in the areas of the story. Though I could find circumstantial evidence to the existence of G.Kincaid. and some details of the story. there was no hard proof of his having lived.

There is as reported nothing to suggest that S.A. Jordan having existed much less worked for the smilthsonian. though its not totally out of the question since I have by no means studied every ledger, expense account or report from 1909 of the smithsonian.

I did track down the the newspaper which had changed its name more than ten times over the years. and the original printing is in an archive at the Univ. of Arizone. so it does exist. I even tracked down four of the writers of the paper at that time.

otherwise I can find no physical evidence that this lost tomb existed. its possible but not likely at this point...

as far as giant skeletons. there has only been three that I know of that can be proven to exist. and they were no taller than seven feet and suffered from hyperdontia. outside of that many native legends tell of meeting giants as they m oved into various areas. with out serious research into the subject, there will never be proof one way or the other.

[TheSearcher]

the article is from the Phoenix gazette. march 1909. there was one in april as well and one a year earlier that mentioned the find.

I have spent seven years researching this, and hiked the grand canyon in the areas of the story. Though I could find circumstantial evidence to the existence of G.Kincaid. and some details of the story. there was no hard proof of his having lived.

There is as reported nothing to suggest that S.A. Jordan having existed much less worked for the smilthsonian. though its not totally out of the question since I have by no means studied every ledger, expense account or report from 1909 of the smithsonian.

I did track down the the newspaper which had changed its name more than ten times over the years. and the original printing is in an archive at the Univ. of Arizone. so it does exist. I even tracked down four of the writers of the paper at that time.

otherwise I can find no physical evidence that this lost tomb existed. its possible but not likely at this point...

as far as giant skeletons. there has only been three that I know of that can be proven to exist. and they were no taller than seven feet and suffered from hyperdontia. outside of that many native legends tell of meeting giants as they m oved into various areas. with out serious research into the subject, there will never be proof one way or the other.

Damned, nice piece of applied research there. Welcome to the Forum mate.

[Sceptical believer]

for those that are interested in researching this. heres a copy of one of the articles.

"THE PHOENIX GAZETTE of April 5th, 1909

EXPLORATIONS IN GRAND CANYON

Mysteries of Immense Rich Cavern being brought to light

Jordan is enthused

Remarkable finds indicate ancient people migrated from Orient

The latest news of the progress of the explorations of what is now regarded by scientists as not only the oldest archeological discovery in the United States, but one of the most valuable in the world, which was mentioned some time ago in the Gazette, was brought to the city yesterday by G.E. Kinkaid, the explorer who found the great underground citadel of the Grand Canyon during a trip from Green River, Wyoming, down the Colorado, in a wooden boat, to Yuma, several months ago.

According to the story related to the Gazette by Mr. Kinkaid, the archaelogists of the Smithsonian Institute, which is financing the expeditions, have made discoveries which almost conclusively prove that the race which inhabited this mysterious cavern, hewn in solid rock by human hands, was of oriental origin, possibly from Egypt, tracing back to Ramses. If their theories are borne out by the translation of the tablets engraved with heiroglyphics, the mystery of the prehistoric peoples of North America, their ancient arts, who they were and whence they came, will be solved. Egypt and the Nile, and Arizona and the Colorado will be linked by a historical chain running back to ages which staggers the wildest fancy of the fictionist.

A Thorough Examination

Under the direction of Prof. S. A. Jordan, the Smithsonian Institute is now prosecuting the most thorough explorations, which will be continued until the last link in the chain is forged. Nearly a mile underground, about 1480 feet below the surface, the long main passage has been delved into, to find another mammoth chamber from which radiates scores of passageways, like the spokes of a wheel.

Several hundred rooms have been discovered, reached by passageways running from the main passage, one of them having been explored for 854 feet and another 634 feet. The recent finds include articles which have never been known as native to this country, and doubtless they had their origin in the orient. War weapons, copper instruments, sharp-edged and hard as steel, indicate the high state of civilization reached by these strange people. So interested have the scientists become that preparations are being made to equip the camp for extensive studies, and the force will be increased to thirty or forty persons.

Mr. Kinkaid's Report

Mr. Kinkaid was the first white child born in Idaho and has been an explorer and hunter all his life, thirty years having been in the service of the Smithsonian Institute. Even briefly recounted, his history sounds fabulous, almost grotesque.

"First, I would impress that the cavern is nearly inaccessible. The entrance is 1,486 feet down the sheer canyon wall. It is located on government land and no visitor will be allowed there under penalty of trespass. The scientists wish to work unmolested, without fear of archeological discoveries being disturbed by curio or relic hunters.

A trip there would be fruitless, and the visitor would be sent on his way. The story of how I found the cavern has been related, but in a paragraph: I was journeying down the Colorado river in a boat, alone, looking for mineral. Some forty-two miles up the river from the El Tovar Crystal canyon, I saw on the east wall, stains in the sedimentary formation about 2,000 feet above the river bed. There was no trail to this point, but I finally reached it with great difficulty.

Above a shelf which hid it from view from the river, was the mouth of the cave. There are steps leading from this entrance some thirty yards to what was, at the time the cavern was inhabited, the level of the river. When I saw the chisel marks on the wall inside the entrance, I became interested, securing my gun and went in. During that trip I went back several hundred feet along the main passage till I came to the crypt in which I discovered the mummies. One of these I stood up and photographed by flashlight. I gathered a number of relics, which I carried down the Colorado to Yuma, from whence I shipped them to Washington with details of the discovery. Following this, the explorations were undertaken.

The Passages

"The main passageway is about 12 feet wide, narrowing to nine feet toward the farther end. About 57 feet from the entrance, the first side-passages branch off to the right and left, along which, on both sides, are a number of rooms about the size of ordinary living rooms of today, though some are 30 by 40 feet square. These are entered by oval-shaped doors and are ventilated by round air spaces through the walls into the passages. The walls are about three feet six inches in thickness.

The passages are chiseled or hewn as straight as could be laid out by an engineer. The ceilings of many of the rooms converge to a center. The side-passages near the entrance run at a sharp angle from the main hall, but toward the rear they gradually reach a right angle in direction.

The Shrine

"Over a hundred feet from the entrance is the cross-hall, several hundred feet long, in which are found the idol, or image, of the people's god, sitting cross-legged, with a lotus flower or lily in each hand. The cast of the face is oriental, and the carving this cavern. The idol almost resembles Buddha, though the scientists are not certain as to what religious worship it represents. Taking into consideration everything found thus far, it is possible that this worship most resembles the ancient people of Tibet.

Surrounding this idol are smaller images, some very beautiful in form; others crooked-necked and distorted shapes, symbolical, probably, of good and evil. There are two large cactus with protruding arms, one on each side of the dais on which the god squats. All this is carved out of hard rock resembling marble. In the opposite corner of this cross-hall were found tools of all descriptions, made of copper. These people undoubtedly knew the lost art of hardening this metal, which has been sought by chemicals for centuries without result. On a bench running around the workroom was some charcoal and other material probably used in the process. There is also slag and stuff similar to matte, showing that these ancients smelted ores, but so far no trace of where or how this was done has been discovered, nor the origin of the ore.

"Among the other finds are vases or urns and cups of copper and gold, made very artistic in design. The pottery work includes enameled ware and glazed vessels. Another passageway leads to granaries such as are found in the oriental temples. They contain seeds of various kinds. One very large storehouse has not yet been entered, as it is twelve feet high and can be reached only from above. Two copper hooks extend on the edge, which indicates that some sort of ladder was attached. These granaries are rounded, as the materials of which they are constructed, I think, is a very hard cement. A gray metal is also found in this cavern, which puzzles the scientists, for its identity has not been established. It resembles platinum. Strewn promiscuously over the floor everywhere are what people call "cats eyes', a yellow stone of no great value. Each one is engraved with the head of the Malay type.

The Hieroglyphics

"On all the urns, or walls over doorways , and tablets of stone which were found by the image are the mysterious hieroglyphics, the key to which the Smithsonian Institute hopes yet to discover. The engraving on the tables probably has something to do with the religion of the people. Similar hieroglyphics have been found in southern Arizona. Among the pictorial writings, only two animals are found. One is of prehistoric type.

The Crypt

"The tomb or crypt in which the mummies were found is one of the largest of the chambers, the walls slanting back at an angle of about 35 degrees. On these are tiers of mummies, each one occupying a separate hewn shelf. At the head of each is a small bench, on which is found copper cups and pieces of broken swords. Some of the mummies are covered with clay, and all are wrapped in a bark fabric.

The urns or cups on the lower tiers are crude, while as the higher shelves are reached, the urns are finer in design, showing a later stage of civilization. It is worthy of note that all the mummies examined so far have proved to be male, no children or females being buried here. This leads to the belief that this exterior section was the warriors' barracks.

"Among the discoveries no bones of animals have been found, no skins, no clothing, no bedding. Many of the rooms are bare but for water vessels. One room, about 40 by 700 feet, was probably the main dining hall, for cooking utensils are found here. What these people lived on is a problem, though it is presumed that they came south in the winter and farmed in the valleys, going back north in the summer.

Upwards of 50,000 people could have lived in the caverns comfortably. One theory is that the present Indian tribes found in Arizona are descendants of the serfs or slaves of the people which inhabited the cave. Undoubtedly a good many thousands of years before the Christian era, a people lived here which reached a high stage of civilization. The chronology of human history is full of gaps. Professor Jordan is much enthused over the discoveries and believes that the find will prove of incalculable value in archeological work.

"One thing I have not spoken of, may be of interest. There is one chamber of the passageway to which is not ventilated, and when we approached it a deadly, snaky smell struck us. Our light would not penetrate the gloom, and until stronger ones are available we will not know what the chamber contains. Some say snakes, but other boo-hoo this idea and think it may contain a deadly gas or chemicals used by the ancients. No sounds are heard, but it smells snaky just the same. The whole underground installation gives one of shaky nerves the creeps. The gloom is like a weight on one's shoulders, and our flashlights and candles only make the darkness blacker. Imagination can revel in conjectures and ungodly daydreams back through the ages that have elapsed till the mind reels dizzily in space."

being familiar with the grand Canyon, I was able to pin down a location, and have searched there once already, and plan on going back and doing another search. I doubt that I will find a thing, at least it will be a great vacation.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Sceptical believer

[seax]

I looked at the crystalinks site where you got that skull picture from.

Well, here it is again, but with a bit extra (from the same site):

And then you will see it's not the skull of some 'giant', but of a normal human being who's head has been artificilally reshaped.

The Huns practiced this ...so some of the Saxons wanting to be cool picked up this reshaping of the head from the Huns. Other groups of people did it also in different areas of the world. Oh...yeah...the coneheads on Saturday Night Live were classic examples of this .

seax

[RamblingRebel]

Not in Ireland, in Northern Ireland.

Really, really disappointing is that place.

Actually, it's in the north of Ireland

[RamblingRebel]

A natural formation:

Tut. I thought it was common knowledge that the giant Fionn mac Cumhaill built it to go get the Scots. Some people eh, they really aught to think before they post nonsensical 'theories' about natural formations and the like. Tut.

[Harte]

You talk about cranial capacity. But what is inside that enlarged skull? Just really big brains?

What if it is nothing but an (artificially) deformed skull, with brains and enlarged cerebral ventricles inside (meaning: extra brain fluid, like those suffering from hydrocephalus) caused by binding the head after birth?

Did anyone ever check the inside wall of those skulls?

Abramelin,

Why should they? The picture you so adroitly provided shows an infant with an ENLARGED CRANIAL CAPACITY!!!

That, according to the village idiot, is supposed to be impossible!!! Cain't be done!!! Must be alien!!! Shoot'em, quick Billy Bob!! SHOOT'EM!!!

LOL

Harte

[fandango]

I know that this one is a fake.

GIANT MAN SOURCE

[questionmark]

So, until now we have seen a cranium and a lot of bah, blah... where is the rest of the skeleton, where is a picture with a ruler showing dimensions?

[lightly]

So, until now we have seen a cranium and a lot of bah, blah... where is the rest of the skeleton, where is a picture with a ruler showing dimensions?

hi questionmark, just using your post (thank you) to tack on this picture.

... there have been Giant skeletons found all over the earth.. Many in the U.S. ... and just to ramble for a minute.. i believe the Bible, being written by men at various times and containing nearly identical concepts from much earlier writings , actually contains some significant scientific statements.... things like (There were Giants in the Earth in those days) (And God DIVIDED the light)

(And all the Earth was of one tongue and of one speech) ... ever notice the similarities in the words for MA (mother) in languages around the Earth??? PA too for that matter.... like i say.. i'm just rambling ..not proposing anything , except maybe open minds. Thanks.

[danielost]

here is a link to 10 to 12 foot tall human remains found in mexico.

http://s8int.com/giants19.html

[danielost]

maybe this is what big foot is. if they wanted to hide they could the smaller ones could filter into our world without being noticed.

if they are wearing grizzly pelts.

[TheSearcher]

here is a link to 10 to 12 foot tall human remains found in mexico.

http://s8int.com/giants19.html

Daniel, the pics of the skulls shown in your link, are just reshaped craniums, many cultures did this as said earlier, besides there is no frame for the size in the picture.

To be honest, the only way I'm going to believe that there were once giants on this here earth, is to show me an entire skeleton. But that's very unlikely to happen.

A bit like the below picture, but beware the below picture is actualy a proven hoax, so don't go using it as proof. I'm just trying to get a point across.

Edited October 2, 2009 by TheSearcher

[danielost]

Daniel, the pics of the skulls shown in your link, are just reshaped craniums, many cultures did this as said earlier, besides there is no frame for the size in the picture.

To be honest, the only way I'm going to believe that there were once giants on this here earth, is to show me an entire skeleton. But that's very unlikely to happen.

A bit like the below picture, but beware the below picture is actualy a proven hoax, so don't go using it as proof. I'm just trying to get a point across.

i guess you didn't read the part where they found ribs big enough where a modern human could crawl into them look around turn around and crawl out.

Edited October 2, 2009 by danielost

[TheSearcher]

i guess you didn't read the part where they found ribs big enough where a modern human could crawl into them look around turn around and crawl out.

I admit I only summarly read the articles, but I did notice the age of the articles, which make them a bit doubtfull in my opinion. Nevertheless, this leaves us with the question, where are these skeletons now?

[Lady Amethyst]

here is a link to 10 to 12 foot tall human remains found in mexico.

http://s8int.com/giants19.html

That website is far from scientific. Look at the statement written by the webmasters:

Our viewpoint is that of Christians who believe that there is one God and that He created the universe at some time in the past-- nowhere near millions or billions of years ago. Exactly how long ago is besides the point. We believe that there was a worldwide flood and that evolution as an explanation for our existence is a fairy tale. If you believe differently perhaps we can at least agree that what we're being told about origins and the past is seriously flawed.

[questionmark]

I admit I only summarly read the articles, but I did notice the age of the articles, which make them a bit doubtfull in my opinion. Nevertheless, this leaves us with the question, where are these skeletons now?

The Nibblers confiscated them and took them to Niburu to hide the evidence... what else?

[lightly]

Daniel, the pics of the skulls shown in your link, are just reshaped craniums, many cultures did this as said earlier, besides there is no frame for the size in the picture.

To be honest, the only way I'm going to believe that there were once giants on this here earth, is to show me an entire skeleton. But that's very unlikely to happen.

A bit like the below picture, but beware the below picture is actualy a proven hoax, so don't go using it as proof. I'm just trying to get a point across.

Unless giantism is the result of some worldwide glandular disorder.. i'd say that ,perhaps, there are still some recessive Giant Genes swimming about in the gene pool? Below are images of Very large people from Afghanistan... Canada.. Mongolia.. and Russia

[tipsy_munchkin]

(And all the Earth was of one tongue and of one speech) ... ever notice the similarities in the words for MA (mother) in languages around the Earth??? PA too for that matter.... like i say.. i'm just rambling ..not proposing anything , except maybe open minds. Thanks.

I dont see the use of MA and PA as very universal to be honest. THere are others here that understand this vast topic beter than I but i believe it is well established that while some modern languages have a common root from which they developed there are very clear groups that developed seperately. The basic structure of some languages is very very different and the evidence is that it evolved independantly in more than one culture.

Edited October 3, 2009 by tipsy_munchkin

[Sceptical believer]

The reason Ma and Pa are so prevelant in parts of the world... is the fact. that the roots of Mother and father are descend from the classical languages. you will not find Ma and Pa in connection with words meaning mother and father in say the heart of africa. or the maya. unless at one time there was a heavy amount of traffic between those areas with say the Spanish, the french.. greeks or Latin speaking peoples.. IE Priests.. and another word used for Priest.. Pater..

Etymology: Middle English moder, from Old English mōdor; akin to Old High German muoter mother, Latin mater, Greek mētēr, Sanskrit mātṛ

Etymology: Middle English fader, from Old English fæder; akin to Old High German fater father, Latin pater, Greek patēr

the following is from Wikipedia.. I know its not normaly a good source but in this case its adequate

Indo European

Geographicdistribution: Before the 15th century, Europe, and South, Central and Southwest Asia; today worldwide.

classification: One of the world's major language families

Subdivisions:

Albanian

Anatolian

Armenian

Balto-Slavic (e.g. Russian)

Celtic

Germanic (e.g. English, German)

Hellenic

Indo-Iranian (e.g. Bengali, Hindi, Iranian, Marathi, Punjabi, Urdu)

Romance (e.g. French, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish)

Tocharian

Please take some time to look this stuff up.. at first glance, its like wow. look Ma and Pa spring up all over the place..and this gets you excited. so it has to be proof of something.... it is travelers from historical times. there are however some language groups that no one knows where the came from. so if you want a real mystery check em out. Basque comes to mind.

and the debate rages on....