'What do you know about 'The Urantia Papers'?'

[+Sherapy]

9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I can't disagree. It's easy to fall into illusion and at worst delusions. All for the desire to be "unique" or "special". 

Well said, X. This happens on a lot of paths, great pull my friend.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Sherapy

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, eight bits said:

The mystery is why not disclose the sources for the reader's use and benefit, just as Matt describes his own further study, if intellectual honesty is somehow not reason enough?

 

I'll take a crack at answering this question.

I have always treated the UB and what it says as a stand alone. That its purpose, for a lack of better words, is to paint a picture no mere man will ever do. 

The revelators clearly acknowledge the use of human sources. They tell us it was done because they "well know that those concepts which have had origin in the human mind will prove more acceptable and helpful to all other human minds.

Matt testified to this fact when he said "For instance, my understanding of the book’s puzzling allusion to “cosmic self-maintenance” (p. 482) was greatly enhanced when I came upon this concept presented at length in the Noble book"

Why didn't the revelators disclose the human sources and cite the sources they used? Because in my opinion, if they did, it would have taken away from their authority "to present enlarged concepts and advanced truth, in our endeavor to expand cosmic consciousness and enhance spiritual perception" 

But here's perhaps the real reason:

"On first thought it might appear that your world is most unfortunate in being deprived of the beneficent presence and influence of [certain objective things on the planet that make it difficult to deny the existence and overcare of God.]

"But isolation of these spheres affords their races a unique opportunity for the exercise of faith and for the development of a peculiar quality of confidence in cosmic reliability which is not dependent on sight or any other material consideration. It may turn out, eventually, that mortal creatures hailing from the worlds quarantined in consequence of rebellion are extremely fortunate. We have discovered that such ascenders are very early intrusted with numerous special assignments to cosmic undertakings where unquestioned faith and sublime confidence are essential to achievement.

And the term they've used in the papers to describe us is "agondonters, meaning evolutionary will creatures who can believe without seeing, persevere when isolated, and triumph over insuperable difficulties even when alone.

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Will Due

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Well said, X. This happens on a lot of paths, great pull my friend.

I think it happens not only in spiritual/religious context, but pretty much any ideology. 

[+Sherapy]

7 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

I'll take a crack at answering this question.

I have always treated the UB and what it says as a stand alone. That its purpose, for a lack of better words, is to paint a picture no mere man will ever do. 

The revelators clearly acknowledge the use of human sources. They tell us it was done because they "well know that those concepts which have had origin in the human mind will prove more acceptable and helpful to all other human minds.

Matt testified to this fact when he said "For instance, my understanding of the book’s puzzling allusion to “cosmic self-maintenance” (p. 482) was greatly enhanced when I came upon this concept presented at length in the Noble book"

Why didn't the revelators disclose the human sources and cite the sources they used? Because in my opinion, if they did, it would have taken away from their authority "to present enlarged concepts and advanced truth, in our endeavor to expand cosmic consciousness and enhance spiritual perception" 

But here's perhaps the real reason:

"On first thought it might appear that your world is most unfortunate in being deprived of the beneficent presence and influence of [certain objective things on the planet that make it difficult to deny the existence and overcare of God.]

"But isolation of these spheres affords their races a unique opportunity for the exercise of faith and for the development of a peculiar quality of confidence in cosmic reliability which is not dependent on sight or any other material consideration. It may turn out, eventually, that mortal creatures hailing from the worlds quarantined in consequence of rebellion are extremely fortunate. We have discovered that such ascenders are very early intrusted with numerous special assignments to cosmic undertakings where unquestioned faith and sublime confidence are essential to achievement.

And the term they've used in the papers to describe us is "agondonters, meaning evolutionary will creatures who can believe without seeing, persevere when isolated, and triumph over insuperable difficulties even when alone.

 

 

 

Cosmic consciousness? Enhanced spiritual perception? 

[Will Due]

3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Cosmic consciousness? Enhanced spiritual perception? 

 

It's entirely a personal matter.

 

 

[+Sherapy]

24 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

It's entirely a personal matter.

 

 

Meaning one is aware that it could be all in their head, yet it gets them through the day? Or?

Edited December 12, 2021 by Sherapy

[eight bits]

@Will Due Thank you for the start on an answer, but I'm still unable to close the gap between "these words are good enough to use," and "these words aren't good enough to support interested readers in finding out more about them."

How does citing a source diminish anybody's effectiveness as a teacher? Ever?

[onlookerofmayhem]

13 hours ago, Luis Marco said:

and also we have to take into account the Planetary Rebellion: https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-67-planetary-rebellion.

Why not just link to a Harry Potter book?

There is nothing remotely indicative of advanced ancient civilizations here.

A bunch of names, places and stories with absolutely no corroborating evidence.

All I did was waste time reading a story. I've already read the book.

Why did hundreds of thousands of years of civilization leave no trace of itself? 

13 hours ago, Luis Marco said:

Perhaps you refer to this: https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/text-standardization ('Urantia Foundation: Standard Reference Text (SRT)')

Why would a divinely channeled book need to make so many corrections?

[+Desertrat56]

14 hours ago, Luis Marco said:

Among other stuff, because of this, from URANTIA:

Is that your own words?  That is what I was asking for, not another quote.   So now we have two Urantia acolytes who don't have their own words.   Too bad, it makes it seem like that book is for people who don't want to think, just take someone else's material and repeat it.

[+Desertrat56]

14 hours ago, Luis Marco said:

it doesnt matter what i believe; i'm just inviting the persons here to all the above regarding URANTIA

Just for a lark then?  See how many you can recruit with no sincerity from you?

Edited December 12, 2021 by Desertrat56

[+Sherapy]

Just now, Desertrat56 said:

Is that your own words?  That is what I was asking for, not another quote.   So now we have two Urantia acolytes who don't have their own words.   Too bad, it makes it seem like that book is for people who don't want to think, just take someone else's material and repeat it.

Exactly, it reminds me of some of the posters over the years who quote the Bible as a response, they have no thoughts of their own as if the practice is only to memorize the books. 

[+Sherapy]

12 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

Why not just link to a Harry Potter book?

There is nothing remotely indicative of advanced ancient civilizations here.

A bunch of names, places and stories with absolutely no corroborating evidence.

All I did was waste time reading a story. I've already read the book.

Why did hundreds of thousands of years of civilization leave no trace of itself? 

Why would a divinely channeled book need to make so many corrections?

Exactly, even Will said believing in the UB is an entirely personal matter. Some find it more interesting to believe in fantasy in their day to day. I am interested in the why, I find that interesting. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Sherapy

[onlookerofmayhem]

Just now, Sherapy said:

Exactly, even Will is saying that it is a personal preference type read. 

That's one of the main issue with books like these.

You can't start with the premise that every word of a document is true.

The UB is simply biblical fan fiction, adding unverifiable stories on top of unverifiable stories.

I can claim that the day he raised Lazarus from the dead, Jesus fell asleep at 9:48 pm.

Doesn't make it true, but who can prove me wrong?

Some story about hundreds of thousands of years of events that have no evidence behind them is useless.

[+Desertrat56]

11 hours ago, Luis Marco said:

blah blah blah, saying foolish and nonsensical things all the time, ah?... 

  So are you 5 or are you just making fun of yourself, because that is what it looks like, you are presenting yourself as immature and insecure.

[+Sherapy]

1 minute ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

That's one of the main issue with books like these.

You can't start with the premise that every word of a document is true.

The UB is simply biblical fan fiction, adding unverifiable stories on top of unverifiable stories.

I can claim that the day he raised Lazarus from the dead, Jesus fell asleep at 9:48 pm.

Doesn't make it true, but who can prove me wrong?

Some story about hundreds of thousands of years of events that have no evidence behind them is useless.

Well said, Onlooker

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

  So are you 5 or are you just making fun of yourself, because that is what it looks like, you are presenting yourself as immature and insecure.

I've noticed that whenever the UB is brought up, it's less about discussion and more about promotion. 

[+Desertrat56]

@Hammerclaw The video you posted was interesting, especially the mention that Sadler's paper was about psychology.    Very important clue, in my opinion abut why he put that book together.    

[+Sherapy]

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I've noticed that whenever the UB is brought up, it's less about discussion and more about promotion. 

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I've noticed that whenever the UB is brought up, it's less about discussion and more about promotion. 

Yes! Like an infomercial. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Sherapy

[Will Due]

 

The James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) is scheduled to be launched into space on December 22, 2021. Just eleven days from now. 

I suspect that this new telescope, many times more powerful than Hubble, will be able to detect for the first time, what the Urantia Book describes as "Architectural Spheres".

 

 

 

[psyche101]

35 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

The James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) is scheduled to be launched into space on December 22, 2021. Just eleven days from now. 

I suspect that this new telescope, many times more powerful than Hubble, will be able to detect for the first time, what the Urantia Book describes as "Architectural Spheres".

 

 

 

Hey Will

As I've pointed out a couple is times already, the claims you said that were backed by science and or predicted by science weren't and aren't.

Why do you expect the JWT to be different?

[Mr Walker]

21 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Being as I am one of the others then it is fair for me to chip in, the context the 200 years is understood by most and is inclusive of everything within that 200 year ranger. You imposed a qualifier that it was not the most recent so what you have misunderstood was the fact that if it was 199 year, 364 days and 22 hours or yesterday has no significance bearing on the fact that it happened in the last 200 years.

Perfect, neither your or the UB's are significantly different because both have no physical evidence in the recognized scientific method sense. Neither your or their aliens mention each other and have asked if they represented god conflicts on earth. Nada, I can see your lips moving but I can't see the words.

Actually you should write a fiction and sell it as such as it could assist in your retirement.

Then the premise is that not everyone who lives is worth knowing god and well the rest are fodder, if that is god then do I really need to know it if it treats my other human in a lesser manner than me? Hell no, fact!!!

It is all in your imagination write it down as notes and develop a book worthy fiction and I will applaud you.

Last first

No. it's not all in my imagination, although my mind interprets ALL experiences, just as everyone's does'

An imaginary being can't physically affect the world, nor can it   physically save lives.

No that is not the premise a t all

Each person's mind is different, thus every person will interpret an experience individually.

When a woman speaks to you. you interpret what the y are saying.  Another pesron might read a difernt understanding into the same words 

this works for ALL human communication, including with "gods"

Incidentally, "worth" has nothing do with contact.

I dont know the basis for contact but it might be whether a person n is willing and able to act on what the entity is asking 

(This can involve great personal cost and sacrifice, along with the rewards0 

It might just be that t the human is willing to listen.  

Just because YOU  have no evidence doesn't mean none exists.

I have as much  evidence for the existence of this being as I do for anything else. 

I'm pretty good with language 

I saw a "flaw"  in the original post  Ie  a religion which is  100 years old is no longer a late comer.

It has been around longer than hundreds of more recent ones 

Hammer's main point was the explosion of new faiths in the last 200 years, which is correct,  but Urantia is not new /a late comer,  within that 200 years  

Nonetheless, the poster may have been saying something i didn't pick upon.  I haven't had that explained to me yet 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Mr Walker

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Mo its not all in my imagination although my mind interprets ALL experiences just as everyone's does'

An imaginary being can't physically affect the world, nor can it   physically save lives.

Hi Walker

So you rode a real dragon and have been to other planets, no you haven't it all happened in your head.

So far the only lives you claim to have been saved are yours and your wife's and she isn't confirming your claim.

7 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

When a woman speaks to you. you interpret what the y are saying.

Generally speaking most of the women I speak with is business so if she says she wants a Brazilian cherry hardwood floor then that's what she gets and am pretty sure most other contractors would interpret it the same. When a waitress asks me what I want I know she is asking what I want to eat and not go off on a tangent telling her about riding dragons or piggy backing on a spider alien with a tool pouch. Most conversations male or female have a purpose and unless we are having a fun time and joking around I understand what people are saying to me in a serious manner.

15 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Just because YOU  have no evidence doesn't mean none exists.

I have as much  evidence for the existence of this being as I do for anything else. 

Actually you don't have any real evidence that can be examined using scientific method.

 

17 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I'm pretty good with language 

Yes as you rewrite the English language to fit your narrative so you can claim to be right.

 

19 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I saw a "flaw" 

You created a flaw where none existed and have argued a non-point for your own ego.

20 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Nonetheless, the poster may have been saying something i didn't pick upon.  I haven't had that explained to me yet 

What does this mean as your posting style isn't showing me what you are responding to.

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

 

The James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) is scheduled to be launched into space on December 22, 2021. Just eleven days from now. 

I suspect that this new telescope, many times more powerful than Hubble, will be able to detect for the first time, what the Urantia Book describes as "Architectural Spheres".

 

 

 

Do you know if these are the same as  Dyson spheres, Will?

A planetary size Dyson sphere would probably be as detectable as a planet. 

[Timothy]

On 11/16/2021 at 8:50 PM, Mr Walker said:

Thats not actually a counter 

If anything, it is either neutral, or supportive of the Urantia story

eg from your source 

The Urantia Book has been enjoyed by some as a form of science fiction, historical fiction or fantasy. The Urantia Book is noted for its high level of internal consistency and an advanced writing style. Skeptic Martin Gardner, in a book otherwise highly critical of The Urantia Book, writes that it is "highly imaginative" and that the "cosmology outrivals in fantasy the cosmology of any science-fiction work known to me."[71] Gooch says that for nonbelievers, the book is a mixture of being "fascinating, inspiring, compelling, haunting, entertaining, annoying, incomprehensible, and always wordy."[97]

Parts I, II, and III are chiefly written in expository language. The papers are informational, matter-of-fact, and instructional. Part IV of the book is written as a biography of Jesus' life, and some feel it is a rich narrative with well-developed characters, high attention to detail, woven sub-plots, and realistic dialogue. Considered as literature, Part IV is favorably compared to retellings of Jesus' life, such as The Gospel According to Jesus Christ by José Saramago and Behold the Man by Michael Moorcock. Martin Gardner considers Part IV to be an especially "well-written, impressive work," and says, "Either it is accurate in its history, coming directly from higher beings in position to know, or it is a work of fertile imagination by someone who knew the New Testament by heart and who was also steeped in knowledge of the times when Jesus lived."[35] His assessment is that the narrative is consistent with human authorship.

 

Certainly it talks about the scientific errors but also s couple of true scientific predictions and it mentions a number of creative artists who carried it with them, and saw it as wisdom  

Take a photo of your bowel movements each day for a year.

I’m sure that some will resemble or imitate things. You might see some significance in it.

But is comes to a point when you have to **** *ask yourself: Is it something profound or is it all just crap.

[Mr Walker]

11 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

So you rode a real dragon and have been to other planets, no you haven't it all happened in your head.

So far the only lives you claim to have been saved are yours and your wife's and she isn't confirming your claim.

Generally speaking most of the women I speak with is business so if she says she wants a Brazilian cherry hardwood floor then that's what she gets and am pretty sure most other contractors would interpret it the same. When a waitress asks me what I want I know she is asking what I want to eat and not go off on a tangent telling her about riding dragons or piggy backing on a spider alien with a tool pouch. Most conversations male or female have a purpose and unless we are having a fun time and joking around I understand what people are saying to me in a serious manner.

Actually you don't have any real evidence that can be examined using scientific method.

 

Yes as you rewrite the English language to fit your narrative so you can claim to be right.

 

You created a flaw where none existed and have argued a non-point for your own ego.

What does this mean as your posting style isn't showing me what you are responding to.

My mind did those things, yep

My body has never been off world, and indeed has never left Australia, yet I have seen and experienced most of the world and some of the galaxy through my mind and consciousness.  

When i ride a horse bareback  or water/snow ski my mind is also doing this, not just my body 

Later i know/ remember what each experience is like only because it is stored in my mind.

That is not always imagination 

However in this case i was speaking of direct external physical manifestations which can be seen  by all and which affect the physicla world 

My wife could confirm my claims as could other witnesses to such events.  Many other humans have written about similar experiences 

But why should you believe them, anymore than you believe me .

Maybe one day it will happen to you.

I will be interested in  your response after that. 

I examine all evidences using the scientific method 

The point is that such evidences are never transferrable

You don't believe You don't really want to believe, and you are a bit miffed that you haven't had your own experiences 

Thus, no evidences I could supply to you would change your mind.

You need an experience of your own .

The flaw is  there if you use simple English skills to analyse the paragraph.

It is not ego (although it is pedantic)   I see it because I have spent decades assessing  such things 

However neither you nor Hammer might read the passage as I did  ie The intent might be different to how i read it   That is not a grammatical flaw, simply the result of differing perceptions of the same passage,(I dont see 100-120  years as "late coming" within 200 years of explosive growth in religions.  ) Maybe you and Hammer do