(Note: The Dr. 58 Sessions continue ...)
Question: So, Dr, 58, have you ever considered that perhaps the Jesus of your world is correct, that you are actually living in a kind of False Thought Universe created by Mothtet?
ANSWER: I HAVE NOT GIVEN IT THOUGHT.
Question: Well, in terms of what we understand over here about the laws of physics, it would explain some things if you were, in fact, in a Thought Universe, and not a universe of physical construction as we generally think of our universe to be. For example, the behavior of the Demon Moon would seem to defy what we know about physics. What do you think?
ANSWER: I DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN.
Question: Well, for example, the Demon Moon was somehow magically transformed from a physical object of technological space hardware into a kind of biological egg, and then it descended from space to earth in a way we would consider impossible. For example, anything descending from space to earth must overcome vast forces of physics. Objects returning to earth must endure the friction of the atmosphere upon reentry, and must have some way to prevent them from burning up in the atmosphere. What do you think?
ANSWER: I THINK YOU SPEAK LIKE A NAZI.
Question: I was afraid you would day that. Before he went to Minnesota, did not Father Vromin hold to the theory that your universe is a False Thought Universe?
ANSWER: YES, THAT IS THE CATHOLIC DOCTRINE.
Question: So what does Father Vromin, now Old Cave, think about the Mothtet False Universe Doctrine?
ANSWER: HE NO LONGER SPEAKS OF CATHOLIC DOCTRINE.
Question: Well, Old Cave apparently has many opinions since he gives many teachings, as you say, and speaks on the streets of New York. What does he talk about?
ANSWER: MANY STRANGE THINGS.
Question: Does he talk about the basic structure of your Universe and existence?
Question: Well, for example, what is one of the primary teachings of Old Cave?
ANSWER: THERE ARE MANY. OLD CAVE SAYS THAT MOST HUMAN BEINGS LACK SELF AWARENESS OF THEIR TRUE NATURE.
Question: In what way? Can you expand on this?
ANSWER: IT IS DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND. OLD CAVE SAID THAT MOST PEOPLE MUST ADVANCE TOWARD A HIGHER, YET FALSE STATE OF CONSCIOUNSESS, BEFORE THEY CAN GO BEYOND THAT FALSE STATE TO AWAKEN TO A GREATER REALITY.
Question: Hmmm. So does he maintain that your society is in a kind of false state of reality?
Question: But this has nothing to do with the fact that you may be trapped within the False Universe of Mothtet?
ANSWER: NO. I DON’T UNDERSTAND VERY WELL, BUT OLD CAVE SAYS THAT WE DO NOT HAVE TRUE INDIVIDUALITY.
Question: How does Old Cave define the state of consciousness that most people in your society have?
ANSWER: HE SAYS THAT WE HAVE A FALSE SENSE OF BELONGING TO A GROUP.
Question: What does that mean to you?
ANSWER: IT IS DIFFICULT TO THINK ABOUT. I FEEL I BELONG TO A GROUP, BUT IT TROUBLES ME NOW THAT OLD CAVE SPEAKS OF IT.
Question: How so?
ANSWER: OLD CAVE SEEMS TO SPEAK IN CONTRADICTIONS. HE SAID WE MUST REALIZE THAT WE ARE INDIVIDUALS, BUT THAT THIS INDIVDUALITY IS YET FALSE -- ALTHOUGH BETTER THAN WHERE WE ARE NOW.
Question: Let me get this straight. Old Cave thinks your society is too oriented toward being a society, that the individual identity of each person is too subservient to group thought?
ANSWER: YES, THAT’S IT.
Question: And so Old Cave thinks that each one of you should become more aware of being an individual person -- of society, yet unique within yourselves -- even thought if you achieve that, you will be in yet another form of false consciousness?
ANSWER: YOU SEEM TO UNDERSTAND OLD CAVE VERY WELL.
Question: Well, what do you think about it. Do you think you should become less associated with your society and become a stronger individual who sees himself as more distinct from society?
ANSWER: THE IDEA HAS MERIT, BUT I FAIL TO SEE WAT IT ACHIEVES SINCE OLD CAVE SAYS THAT MORE INDIVIDUALITY WOULD STILL BE A FALSE MODE OF EXISTENCE.
Question: But maybe Old Cave means to say that achieving greater personal individuality is merely a step in the right direction, and that you are trading one false mode of consciousness for another false mode, but that this latter false mode of consciousness will be a stepping stone to something more valid. What do you think?
ANSWER: SOMETIMES YOU SPEAK LIKE A NAZI, AND SOMETIMES YOU SEEM AS WISE AS OLD CAVE.
Question: Let me tell you something, Dr. 58. We have some inside information about Old Cave. Would you like to hear it?
Question: What if we were to tell you that the person which you refer to as Old Cave is actually a mimic ego personality -- a puppet of a much greater entity of a rather extraordinary nature?
ANSWER: WHAT IS A MIMIC EGO PERSONLITY?
Question: Do you know the term ego?
ANSWER: NOT IN YOUR TERMS PERHAPS.
Question: Yes, well, an ego which defines a person in terms of who he or she is. It defines you as an individual, unique from a group. It implies a self-reflective personality. When a person uses the term “I” he believes that “I” to be who he is, himself. Are you following me?
Question: An ego has many beliefs about himself or herself. It identifies with a particular name. For example, you call yourself Dr. 58. But that is not your real name, right?
Question: So, in a sense, for the purposes of communicating with us, you have adopted a kind of false alter ego, whom you call Dr. 58. It is a false front your have created in order to protect yourself from us to a certain degree. Do you follow?
Question: But you would agree with me that Dr. 58 is not who you really are, correct. It is a kind of false-front ego, right?
Question: So your real name, that person whom you truly are, that is your true name which you attach to your real ego, correct?
Question: Are you willing at this time to tell us your real name, Dr. 58?
Question: Okay, but the point we are making is that you have a particular identity by which you know yourself to be yourself, right?
Question: How strong would you say your sense of personal identification is, Dr. 58? For example, do you consider yourself unique from your society, that your individuality -- your ego-- is greater than your society?
ANSWER: THAT IS DIFFICULT TO ANSWER, IT SEEMS NONSENSICAL.
Question: Have you ever thought about it?
Question: What would you say is greater, yourself, or your society?
ANSWER: I WOULD SAY YOUR QUESTION IS RIDICULOUS. YOU SPEAK LIKE OLD CAVE. YOU RANT.
Question: Okay, Dr. 58. Let’s get back to Old Cave. Old Cave was once the Father Reston Vromin. Father Vromin was the person he used to be -- that was his ego identification for himself. Do you understand?
Question: But now this Father Vromin seems to be gone. In his place is Old Cave. What do you think?
ANSWER: IT IS CERTAIN THAT OLD CAVE IS FATHER RESTON VROMIN.
Question: Yes, in the physical sense -- but in the psychological sense, do you think that Father Vromin and Old Cave are one and the same person?
ANSWER: IT IS HE, YET VASTLY CHANGED.
Question: Yes, you say now he is a withered old man, a mere shadow of his formal physical self, which I assume was a man of a robust physical nature?
Question: What do you think happened to him to cause such a noticed physical change?
ANSWER: APPARENTLY HIS EXPERIENCED IN MINNESOTA WERE RIGOROUS.
Question: Yes. Consider that having one’s primary ego completely shattered, broken down and cast aside as false, and having it replaced with a weak, fabricated Mimic Ego -- although primarily a psychological experience, this must necessarily entail a great deal of physical exertion, would you agree?
Question: Dr. 58, there is a greater reality to Old Cave which you must consider. For one, Old Cave is a Mimic Ego. This Mimic Ego is the puppet of a vast consciousness which is a multi-ego hive construct. The true power behind Old Cave is an entity with a multi-tiered consciousness, and we are interested to know what it is motivated to do now that it is back in your society, outside of Minnesota. What do you say?
Question: The point is, to be a follower of Old Cave is, in effect, to be a follower not of Old Cave but of a multi-ego hive construct. You must consider this as you determine your own path, Dr. 58. Do you understand?
Question: I think we will end our session here for now. Let’s speak again soon, Dr. 58.
ANSWER: I AM WILLING.
Question: Thank you. Good-bye.