Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

talking to myself

  • entries
    3,107
  • comments
    1,633
  • views
    685,227

Rehashed Jesus

markdohle

910 views

Rehashed Jesus

What is it about Jesus that everyone has to have some sort of theory seeking to debunk his reality? I think one reason for some, though not all, is fear. Jesus did talk about our freedom, how in the end we become something. Either we become like God, or we become though our own choices eternal horrors. The last judgment scene in the Gospel Matthew brings this out I believe. So if Jesus did rise from the dead, this has to be dealt with. One way is to try to disprove the reality of the Gospels as well as the Epistles. In the end he either resurrected or he did not.

I guess it could be thought that Jesus got together with his apostles and decided to start a world religion. That they would work with the Roman Government, have him crucified, but just before he died, they would pretend he was dead, and in three days he would appear to everyone and then the apostles would give their whole lives to this con job, or dog and pony show, travel, suffer, and at times imprisoned, and then knowingly die for a lie. Who would have thought simple fishermen and a man who was a carpenter could come up with this kind of thing. Especially since the Jews did not believe anyone could come back from the dead the way Jesus did…..resurrected. They did believe that it would happen to everyone at the same time on the Day of Judgment.

Here is one thread seeking to debunk Jesus:

Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome."

http://www.dailypaul...-and-false-gods

It goes on and one. The problem is this. The church exploded on the scene almost instantly, thousands converted, there were miracles. These have to be dealt with. One way, again, is to try to find an out, if there is not. Then what do you do with Jesus Christ? Wait, you can make him one of the God’s:

The below deals with the Jesus is just another myth, or a remake of the old gods.

Combating the never-ending list of parallels

If you do an Internet search on this subject, you will come across lists of supposed parallels between Jesus and Horus that are much longer than Bill Maher’s filmic litany. What they all have in common is that they do not cite their sources.

Should you encounter people who try to challenge you with these claims, ask them to explain where it is they got their information. Many times you will find that they originate with Gerald Massey or one of his contemporaries. Sometimes they have been repeated and expanded on by others. But these claims have little or no connection to the facts.

You should challenge the person making the claim to produce a primary source or a statement from a scholarly secondary source that has a footnote that can be checked. Then make sure the sources being quoted come from scholars with a Ph.D. in a relevant field, such as a person who teaches Egyptology at the university level.

Due to the mass of misinformation on the Internet and in print on this subject, it is important to respond to these claims using credible sources. Fortunately, there are many good books on Egypt and Egyptology in print. But there are also bad ones, so make sure to verify the author’s credentials before purchasing them.

The study of ancient Egypt has come a long way since its beginning in the 1800s, and new discoveries are being made even today that improve upon our understanding of the subject. It’s safe to say they will do nothing to bolster the alleged Jesus-Horus connection.

The Horus mythology developed over a period of 5,000 years, and as a result it can be a complex subject to tackle. But you don’t have to be an Egyptologist to answer all of these claims. You just need to know where to look for the answers—and to be aware of the claims’ flawed sources.

http://www.strangeno...m/horus-manure/

I am not posting this to change anyone's mind, but if you don't believe in Jesus, or the Gospels, fine, but this constant rehashing of different, new theories is somewhat absurd, though funny at times.



6 Comments


Recommended Comments

Marcus Aurelius

Posted

I think much of it comes from the naturalist worldview, Mark. It begins with the presupposition that we live in a closed system where miracles simply cannot occur. You begin from this premise and then you come up with a Jesus to fit this view; indeed we can have any kind of Jesus except one who performs miracles and quite literally rose from the dead. It is easier to say that He was just a man or even a made up myth because it fits nicely into that closed system.

But I find it hard to believe that these men would have died for a myth; a lie, a fabrication. I also find it hard to believe that those who lived in the Apostolic Age wouldn't have 'debunked' this myth themselves. Why bother stoning Christians when you could have simply said "hey this man you're talking about didn't even exist."

Much of this "quest for the historical Jesus" has never been about finding the historical Jesus. It ignores the evidence. It ignores the eyewitness testimony. The goal has always been to reduce Jesus to whatever view fits the eye of the beholder.

Lastly, I find it ironic that people living 2,000 years after the fact somehow feel that they are in a better position to judge who Jesus was or wasn't rather than those who lived during His time and immediately after. I think I would be more likely to accept the testimony of the 500 who actually saw Him after the resurrection: "After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep." (1 Cor 15:6). Paul seems to be challenging the doubters of his own time, saying in effect "hey, if you don't believe me, go and ask them!"

  • Like 2

Share this comment


Link to comment

I think much of it comes from the naturalist worldview, Mark. It begins with the presupposition that we live in a closed system where miracles simply cannot occur. You begin from this premise and then you come up with a Jesus to fit this view; indeed we can have any kind of Jesus except one who performs miracles and quite literally rose from the dead. It is easier to say that He was just a man or even a made up myth because it fits nicely into that closed system.

But I find it hard to believe that these men would have died for a myth; a lie, a fabrication. I also find it hard to believe that those who lived in the Apostolic Age wouldn't have 'debunked' this myth themselves. Why bother stoning Christians when you could have simply said "hey this man you're talking about didn't even exist."

Much of this "quest for the historical Jesus" has never been about finding the historical Jesus. It ignores the evidence. It ignores the eyewitness testimony. The goal has always been to reduce Jesus to whatever view fits the eye of the beholder.

Lastly, I find it ironic that people living 2,000 years after the fact somehow feel that they are in a better position to judge who Jesus was or wasn't rather than those who lived during His time and immediately after. I think I would be more likely to accept the testimony of the 500 who actually saw Him after the resurrection: "After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep." (1 Cor 15:6). Paul seems to be challenging the doubters of his own time, saying in effect "hey, if you don't believe me, go and ask them!"

Well said, much better than I could ever do.

Peace

mark

Share this comment


Link to comment

Not really in the conversation ...this actually makes me think of the "Ancient Aliens" theory which I to some extent believe. Jesus is an alien.

Many Christians may think this is blasphemy but I really don't mean it like that. In fact the opposite. Im Christian crossed science or something like that stuck in my own lala land. They say if you take the word angel and replace it with alien or ufo and read the Bible with the idea of science, aliens and ufos in mind that it kinda makes sense.

So there is just one more to add to your list. Well ... kinda not as Im not debunking Jesus just saying everything is semi true depending on what you believe or how much of it you believe. He was alive, he did all those things AND had the power/energy to do all those thing, he died .................. and was taken up by aliens.

Does this count as debunking Jesus or just a compatiable way of two theories or ideas combined working together?

Share this comment


Link to comment
Marcus Aurelius

Posted

Hi Ann. I appreciate your responses here. Now I know there are some people who might just laugh something like this out of the building; and I don't mean that in any disrespectful way...but there are just those who would. I however take this very seriously. Believe it or not, I actually watch the show Ancient Aliens and I've also read several books and articles on the Ancient Alien theory. And I will admit, there are some compelling cases for it...such as the ruins at Puma Punku. Clearly, there was something odd going on there that we just don't understand...

I could also accept Jesus being called an alien as an ADJECTIVE, but not as a NOUN. By that I mean what we know of God has been revealed to us by and through revelation; but God is ultimately transcendent; and thus, wholly Other. I simply cannot define Him in an exhaustive way. My limited mental faculties cannot allow me to do so. You ought to look up this amazing little book of Christian mysticism called the Cloud of Unknowing. You would 'get' what I'm saying here a bit more if you checked that out.

But could I accept Jesus as an alien meaning extraterrestrial? My answer to that would have to be no. And here is why: why must we be so quick to take one supernatural explanation for causal events and merely substitute it with another? I see the Ancient Alien theory as being somewhat compelling; but at the same time when it comes to their theories on the Bible and creation; what they have done is insert one form of the supernatural over and against another; and THEN they try to call it NATURALISM. But how can the AA theory be demonstrated to be naturalistic, see? We have no smoking gun proof. Even if you look at modern cases of UFO's and alien abductions; which again, I admit some appear to be credible; such as the Phoenix Lights....this still cannot be demonstrated as a NATURAL phenomena. If I were to concede that aliens exist (I am not sure that they do, but I'm not sure that they don't either) it would have to be proven as a natural phenomena for me to classify it as anything BUT supernatural.

Also, think about it like this: because we are talking about two supernatural concepts here; why not just flip it? Could angels be using UFO's? Further still; if aliens do in fact exist, who is to say they do not have a Jesus figure of their own? What if the same God that Mark and I pray to and perhaps you also pray to....does not have some sort of plan for them as well? IF aliens ARE a natural phenomena after all; God would have created THEM as well. Ancient Astronaut theorists are always quick to point out that they aren't saying that God doesn't exist with their theory, so maybe we should take that aspect of it at face value?

So to answer your question directly; yes they could in fact be compatible....but for a Christian like me it would depend on HOW you make it compatible.

  • Like 1

Share this comment


Link to comment

Not really in the conversation ...this actually makes me think of the "Ancient Aliens" theory which I to some extent believe. Jesus is an alien.

Many Christians may think this is blasphemy but I really don't mean it like that. In fact the opposite. Im Christian crossed science or something like that stuck in my own lala land. They say if you take the word angel and replace it with alien or ufo and read the Bible with the idea of science, aliens and ufos in mind that it kinda makes sense.

So there is just one more to add to your list. Well ... kinda not as Im not debunking Jesus just saying everything is semi true depending on what you believe or how much of it you believe. He was alive, he did all those things AND had the power/energy to do all those thing, he died .................. and was taken up by aliens.

Does this count as debunking Jesus or just a compatiable way of two theories or ideas combined working together?

I don't mind the theories, perhaps the alien one may be closer to the truth, though I don't believe it. We are each seekers I believe.

Peace

mark

Share this comment


Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now