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Davros of Skaro

Posted

That was almost as contradictive, and full of BS as the NT.

I hope the doctors reported the growth of new organs to the New England Journal of Medicine.

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markdohle

Posted

Well, it is hard perhaps for all of us to think outside of our belief system.  However the NDE is around to stay,
and the studies indicate that they are true, no matter what any of us think is possible or impossible. 

Secondly, he did not get new organs, but a healing of organs that were failing and brought him
near death. 

In any case, the only atheist I do know who have changed their view is because the impossible happened to them,
and they had a powerful NDE. 

Peace
Mark

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Alchopwn

Posted

So where do I find this photograph of Jesus everyone is referencing so they know what Jesus looks like when they see him in these NDEs?

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markdohle

Posted

Since I have not had an NDE, I really do not know.  Those who meet Jesus just seem to know.

 

Peace
Mark

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Davros of Skaro

Posted

20 hours ago, markdohle said:

Well, it is hard perhaps for all of us to think outside of our belief system.

Yes. Many people have a confirmation bias, and the human mind is very capable of cognitively blocking information that goes against said bias.

20 hours ago, markdohle said:

However the NDE is around to stay, and the studies indicate that they are true, no matter what any of us think is possible or impossible. 

Science explains it, but people want hearsay to be more than it is. 

20 hours ago, markdohle said:

Secondly, he did not get new organs, but a healing of organs that were failing and brought him
near death. 

He claims the doctors were amazed. Where is their reports?

20 hours ago, markdohle said:

In any case, the only atheist I do know who have changed their view is because the impossible happened to them,
and they had a powerful NDE. 

If your God existed then it would know what would convince anybody on an individual basis. It would not need coincidences, questionable tales, or highly emotional, and or traumatic events.

20 hours ago, markdohle said:

Peace
Mark

Peace

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markdohle

Posted

Thanks for your comments.  I will say one thing, many men of science are studying the NDE, and accepting it.
However is it proof (?), well only to the one who experiences it. 

 

peace
Mark

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On 5/9/2023 at 5:04 PM, markdohle said:

Thanks for your comments.  I will say one thing, many men of science are studying the NDE, and accepting it.
However is it proof (?), well only to the one who experiences it. 

 

peace
Mark

My NDE was based on my former Native beliefs, so they are obviously doctrine based. 

And I fully recovered from a stroke that should of killed me without the bore holes I should of had. No Christianity needed.

Don't ask for specifics. It involves the subconscious thoughtform my mind created as a Spirit Helper and my Shaman grandfather. 

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markdohle

Posted

The mind is a true mystery, and consciousnesses is still the hard question for science.  I believe that the main
reason that mankind believes in a transcendent reality is because it has always been experienced.   Death Bed
visions for instances was taken for granted in the past.  The mystery is this.  The heart stops, and less than a minute later
conscious thought is impossible, there should be nothing, there is something, something great.   Also OBEs that bring back vertical evidence that what was
experienced is real.. 

Always a  pleasure hearing from you my fiend. 

Peace
Mark

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Alchopwn

Posted

On 5/9/2023 at 4:09 AM, markdohle said:

Since I have not had an NDE, I really do not know.  Those who meet Jesus just seem to know.

 

Peace
Mark

Do they?  Do they really?  Can we be quite sure?  Because Jesus doesn't look like this guy...

th-3516157211.jpg.cf427df19a2792ebb5f374e606c0062f.jpg

He wasn't anglo-saxon.  He may not even have had a beard.  As to the whole halo/nimbus business, that is artistic license.  He is also highly unlikely to have worn the "toga virilus" of the Romans, with which he is so often depicted.  In fact, this image is a conflation of Sol Invictus and Serapis.  We have no idea what Jesus looked like, but clearly someone has a photo, because all these NDEs know what Jesus looks like.

 

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psyche101

Posted

Is atheism conversion like a religious fantasy or something? 

Stories are touted as if significant. I don't think they are 

FYI science isn't saying NDEs are afterlife. Just a tip for future entries. 

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pellinore

Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, Piney said:

My NDE was based on my former Native beliefs, so they are obviously doctrine based. 

And I fully recovered from a stroke that should of killed me without the bore holes I should of had. No Christianity needed.

Don't ask for specifics. It involves the subconscious thoughtform my mind created as a Spirit Helper and my Shaman grandfather. 

 

6 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Is atheism conversion like a religious fantasy or something? 

Stories are touted as if significant. I don't think they are 

FYI science isn't saying NDEs are afterlife. Just a tip for future entries. 

The name NDE gives a clue that no one has died. If someone had actually died, and then came back to life and described what death was like, I'd be all ears. Becoming unconscious through a cardiac arrest or a stroke, being resuscitated and recovering,or even recovering spontaneously, is not returning from death.

No-one has recovered from brain death, whether it is for three days or three minutes. They are as dead as this parrot:

 

Edited by pellinore
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markdohle

Posted

 Do they?  Do they really?  Can we be quite sure?  Because Jesus doesn't look like this guy...

th-3516157211.jpg.cf427df19a2792ebb5f374e606c0062f.jpg

He wasn't anglo-saxon.  He may not even have had a beard.  As to the whole halo/nimbus business, that is artistic license.  He is also highly unlikely to have worn the "toga virilus" of the Romans, with which he is so often depicted.  In fact, this image is a conflation of Sol Invictus and Serapis.  We have no idea what Jesus looked like, but clearly someone has a photo, because all these NDEs know what Jesus looks like. 

Again, millions have had NDEs, many see Jesus, others see something else.   They happen, will continue to happen, and each person will have to decide what they think
on the issue.   There is certainly plenty of literature on the subject.   it is complex, and the fact that they are still being studied, points to the reality that all of the counterpoints about
the NDE real do not carry much weight.

A good book on the subject, especially for skeptics is called 
After/  I find the author amazing, since he does what is almost impossible,
he stays objective and in the end, comes to his own conclusion without
bringing into the ring a religious interpretation.  Perhaps of of the few, very few,
who is not curtailed by Confirmation Bias.  Of which, I am by no means free of,
and have not met anyone who is.  Though perhaps the author of the this book comes
very, very, close.

https://www.amazon.com/After-Bruce-Greyson/dp/125026586X/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3NC4CQCSJ8FFV&keywords=after&qid=1683829981&s=books&sprefix=%2Cstripbooks%2C2931&sr=1-6

This is a review of the book posted on Amazon:

Cases of remarkable experiences on the threshold of death have been reported since ancient times, and are described today by 10% of people whose hearts stop. The medical world has generally ignored these “near-death experiences,” dismissing them as “tricks of the brain” or wishful thinking. But after his patients started describing events that he could not just sweep under the rug, Dr. Bruce Greyson began to investigate.

As a physician without a religious belief system, he approached near-death experiences from a scientific perspective. In
After, he shares the transformative lessons he has learned over four decades of research. Our culture has tended to view dying as the end of our consciousness, the end of our existence―a dreaded prospect that for many people evokes fear and anxiety.

But Dr. Greyson shows how scientific revelations about the dying process can support an alternative theory. Dying could be the threshold between one form of consciousness and another, not an ending but a transition. This new perspective on the nature of death can transform the fear of dying that pervades our culture into a healthy view of it as one more milestone in the course of our lives.
After challenges us to open our minds to these experiences and to what they can teach us, and in so doing, expand our understanding of consciousness and of what it means to be human.

 

 

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Davros of Skaro

Posted

12 hours ago, markdohle said:
 Do they?  Do they really?  Can we be quite sure?  Because Jesus doesn't look like this guy...

th-3516157211.jpg.cf427df19a2792ebb5f374e606c0062f.jpg

He wasn't anglo-saxon.  He may not even have had a beard.  As to the whole halo/nimbus business, that is artistic license.  He is also highly unlikely to have worn the "toga virilus" of the Romans, with which he is so often depicted.  In fact, this image is a conflation of Sol Invictus and Serapis.  We have no idea what Jesus looked like, but clearly someone has a photo, because all these NDEs know what Jesus looks like. 

Again, millions have had NDEs, many see Jesus, others see something else.   They happen, will continue to happen, and each person will have to decide what they think
on the issue.   There is certainly plenty of literature on the subject.   it is complex, and the fact that they are still being studied, points to the reality that all of the counterpoints about
the NDE real do not carry much weight.

A good book on the subject, especially for skeptics is called 
After/  I find the author amazing, since he does what is almost impossible,
he stays objective and in the end, comes to his own conclusion without
bringing into the ring a religious interpretation.  Perhaps of of the few, very few,
who is not curtailed by Confirmation Bias.  Of which, I am by no means free of,
and have not met anyone who is.  Though perhaps the author of the this book comes
very, very, close.

https://www.amazon.com/After-Bruce-Greyson/dp/125026586X/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3NC4CQCSJ8FFV&keywords=after&qid=1683829981&s=books&sprefix=%2Cstripbooks%2C2931&sr=1-6

This is a review of the book posted on Amazon:

Cases of remarkable experiences on the threshold of death have been reported since ancient times, and are described today by 10% of people whose hearts stop. The medical world has generally ignored these “near-death experiences,” dismissing them as “tricks of the brain” or wishful thinking. But after his patients started describing events that he could not just sweep under the rug, Dr. Bruce Greyson began to investigate.

As a physician without a religious belief system, he approached near-death experiences from a scientific perspective. In
After, he shares the transformative lessons he has learned over four decades of research. Our culture has tended to view dying as the end of our consciousness, the end of our existence―a dreaded prospect that for many people evokes fear and anxiety.

But Dr. Greyson shows how scientific revelations about the dying process can support an alternative theory. Dying could be the threshold between one form of consciousness and another, not an ending but a transition. This new perspective on the nature of death can transform the fear of dying that pervades our culture into a healthy view of it as one more milestone in the course of our lives.
After challenges us to open our minds to these experiences and to what they can teach us, and in so doing, expand our understanding of consciousness and of what it means to be human.

I'll wait till this psychiatrist gets the Nobel Peace Prize for proving life after death. You should check out his Kundalini Scale.

Till then the fear of that deep dark abyss will haunt you brother Mark.

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markdohle

Posted

I would think that we all fear death.  The survival instinct is strong.  I believe in God because
I see the work of infinite intelligence in the universe.  Jesus is the revelation of what that
infinite mind is like.    If I cease at death, well, there will be peace.  Yet, you, and I, and everyone
will one day be before the "Word of God" and either embrace or reject......in the end we are free to choose.

I see that atheist deal with stereotypes just as much as everyone. Read the book, then comment on his findings.

Peace
Mark

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Davros of Skaro

Posted

On 5/12/2023 at 8:13 PM, markdohle said:

I would think that we all fear death. The survival instinct is strong. 

A psychopath would not, but I would think everyone has varied anxiety over death. One being the circumstances, for example a car crash rather than be in old age surrounded by family. To avoid death to produce offspring is in our DNA wether one is aware of it, or not.

A guess the closest to faith I have is if their was a God, it would be beyond of wether I believed it, or not. It is not faith, but a calculation based on reality. For instance it (yes "it" till further definition) would know what being a biological is, and would not see things in an arbitrary late bronze age judgement.

To those that fear death I ask "What do you remember before you were born?", if they are not insane they respond with "nothing". Then I say "If that is death no matter what inevitably, is it so bad?". Then I let them think about it.

I am open to life after death. But I remain skeptical.

On 5/12/2023 at 8:13 PM, markdohle said:

I believe in God because I see the work of infinite intelligence in the universe. 

I see natural mechanisms.

On 5/12/2023 at 8:13 PM, markdohle said:

Jesus is the revelation of what thatinfinite mind is like. If I cease at death, well, there will be peace. Yet, you, and I, and everyone will one day be before the "Word of God" and either embrace or reject......in the end we are free to choose.

To me Jesus is a character pieced together by messiah seeking parallel-o-maniacs due in part the way the Torah was ironically compiled.

You sound like an Annihilationist were a nonbeliever gets a second chance in front of Jesus where rejection cuts oneself away from the Source of Life. 

I just came on here because the video you presented was horrible. Maybe the guy had an experience, but he comes off as a swindler with a padded story for the gulible.

On 5/12/2023 at 8:13 PM, markdohle said:

I see that atheist deal with stereotypes just as much as everyone. Read the book, then comment on his findings.

I read some things online of his statements, and I get the impression he's just handwaving away hard science. 

Even if there is life after death it does not mean what you believe is true. 

On 5/12/2023 at 8:13 PM, markdohle said:

Peace
Mark

Cheers :cat:

Rob

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markdohle

Posted

Thank you Davros for you clear and concise comments.  We all need a good dose of agnosticism in our lives.
I do not know a lot of things, nor do I understand all aspects of my faith, yet I take the next step.  As I am sure
you do as well.  

Life is a journey, and we are all on this path that leads to a door that for me is a great mystery, yet I have faith
in Jesus as well.

Always good hearing from you my friend.

 

peace and yes cheersB)
Mark 

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