In Defense of Creationism

[Doug1029]

In most discussions of Evolution Vs. Creationism, the "debate" usually ends up focussing on evolution and ignorring creationism. I would like to hear the case FOR creationism. Use whatever "proofs" you want: for purposes of this thread, the Bible is just as valid as any scientific journal. I would like to see observations from nature and/or passages from the Bible used to lay out the case. If you say "The Bible says ...." please tell me in which verse it says that and how you interpret that verse to arrive at your conclusions.

This thread is about the reasoning behind Creationism.

Thanks,

Doug

[Cimber]

In most discussions of Evolution Vs. Creationism, the "debate" usually ends up focussing on evolution and ignorring creationism. I would like to hear the case FOR creationism. Use whatever "proofs" you want: for purposes of this thread, the Bible is just as valid as any scientific journal. I would like to see observations from nature and/or passages from the Bible used to lay out the case. If you say "The Bible says ...." please tell me in which verse it says that and how you interpret that verse to arrive at your conclusions.

This thread is about the reasoning behind Creationism.

Thanks,

Doug

I know that you stated that this thread is all about Creationism, but I can't just stay silent about how you would accept the Bible as proof. It is in no way just as valid as a scientific paper based on evidence.

[WalkingWithFire]

The world we see is too complex to be an accident. We certainly see design in all things. From a biblical perspective, the first thing we read about in the Bible is creation. This creation took 6 days, with man being created on the last day.

[WalkingWithFire]

I know that you stated that this thread is all about Creationism, but I can't just stay silent about how you would accept the Bible as proof. It is in no way just as valid as a scientific paper based on evidence.

I would say the Bible is more valid. The Bible is of God, but science is always changing.

[EmpressV]

A lot of religious see jesus on toast too.

I look around and see millions if not billions of years of evolution. Started with the elements we all have. Not just human but everything.

[WalkingWithFire]

A lot of religious see jesus on toast too.

I look around and see millions if not billions of years of evolution. Started with the elements we all have. Not just human but everything.

Oh? And where did these elements come from?

[EmpressV]

I know that you stated that this thread is all about Creationism, but I can't just stay silent about how you would accept the Bible as proof. It is in no way just as valid as a scientific paper based on evidence.

I'm with you on this. That book can't be proven as fact. It's fiction not scientific.

[WalkingWithFire]

I'm with you on this. That book can't be proven as fact. It's fiction not scientific.

'You "perceive" it as ficition. Weren't you the one complaining earlier about stating things as fact?

[EmpressV]

Oh? And where did these elements come from?

Sorry, but not from a guy in the sky!

Elements make up the universe which is infinite.

I just can't get my logic around the biblical account. It doesn't make sense. Never has and never will. It's not physically possible.

[WalkingWithFire]

Sorry, but not from a guy in the sky!

Elements make up the universe which is infinite.

I just can't get my logic around the biblical account. It doesn't make sense. Never has and never will. It's not physically possible.

So where did these elements come from?

Anything is possible with God.

[Doug1029]

I know that you stated that this thread is all about Creationism, but I can't just stay silent about how you would accept the Bible as proof. It is in no way just as valid as a scientific paper based on evidence.

It is the reasoning behind creationism that I am trying to understand. I have long wondered if it is supported by anything more than one or two vague biblical passages. I thought that someone on this forum would probably know.

--Doug

[Cimber]

I would say the Bible is more valid. The Bible is of God, but science is always changing.

Are your serious? Ok here I go.

"A land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time." There are no such thing as giants. I mean giants by the terms layed out in the Bible

"The world also is established, that it cannot be moved." Wrong again, the world revolves around the sun, and spins on its axis.

75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah. The earth isn't kept up by pillars.

11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Earth doesn't have corners, its round not flat.

43:20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen. There are no such things as dragons. The can't thank God either.

4:11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth: Again, the earth has no end. It is round not flat.

1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. Jonah could not have survived in the fishes stomach for that long.

3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear. The sun and moon both move. The moon rotates around the earth and the sun moves and rotates on its axis.

9:32 As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil. Apparently those who have mental illness or cannot talk are possed by the devil. It has nothing to do with genetic inheritance or trauma?

9:7 And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing. I am sure any blind person can do this and their sight restored? Thats not how it works unfortunately.

These are just a few of the Bible being wrong in the face of science. There are plenty of outher examples.

Edited August 1, 2007 by Cimber

[Doug1029]

I'm with you on this. That book can't be proven as fact. It's fiction not scientific.

OK. It's not scientific. But a lot of people believe it. How do they interpret it?

--Doug

[Cimber]

OK. It's not scientific. But a lot of people believe it. How do they interpret it?

--Doug

Christians believe in it because it appeals to their beliefs. Most also were taught these ideals at a very young age, while the brain is still developing. Its hard to lose these beliefs later in life.

[WalkingWithFire]

Are your serious? Ok here I go.

"A land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time." There are no such thing as giants. I mean giants by the terms layed out in the Bible

"The world also is established, that it cannot be moved." Wrong again, the world revolves around the sun, and spins on its axis.

75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah. The earth isn't kept up by pillars.

11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Earth doesn't have corners, its round not flat.

43:20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen. There are no such things as dragons. The can't thank God either.

4:11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth: Again, the earth has no end. It is round not flat.

1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. Jonah could not have survived in the fishes stomach for that long.

3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear. The sun and moon both move. The moon rotates around the earth and the sun moves and rotates on its axis.

9:32 As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil. Apparently those who have mental illness or cannot talk are possed by the devil. It has nothing to do with genetic inheritance or trauma?

9:7 And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing. I am sure any blind person can do this and their sight restored? Thats not how it works unfortunately.

These are just a few of the Bible being wrong in the face of science. There are plenty of outher examples.

Sounds like you're just choosing to read things in a context other than how they were written.

[Cimber]

Sounds like you're just choosing to read things in a context other than how they were written.

What? That is how they are written. I don't think ANYONE should interpret the bible any different than how it is written. You can't just interpret and mold what is said in the bible to your liking.

Also this is causing the OP's thread to go offtopic. Please WWF, state why you believe in creationism and present him with proof like he asked, so I can provide my view on it.

[Beckys_Mom]

So where did these elements come from?

Anything is possible with God.

Yea so is evolution.........I believe God is totally responcible for it all...all that has evolved over billions of years

the whole God did it all by magic just dont cut it for me...I believe there is a lot more to it...

And before you go on about Adam & Evieee...I already know the story, hence the reason WHY I follow evolution...you need to be smart enough to understand it

[WalkingWithFire]

What? That is how they are written. I don't think ANYONE should interpret the bible any different than how it is written. You can't just interpret and mold what is said in the bible to your liking.

Also this is causing the OP's thread to go offtopic. Please WWF, state why you believe in creationism and present him with proof like he asked, so I can provide my view on it.

You're right. So consider the age and time it was written and the context is just fine.

[WalkingWithFire]

Yea so is evolution.........I believe God is totally responcible for it all...all that has evolved over billions of years

the whole God did it all by magic just dont cut it for me...I believe there is a lot more to it...

And before you go on about Adam & Evieee...I already know the story, hence the reason WHY I follow evolution...you need to be smart enough to understand it

Evolution can in no way explain origins. Something can not come out of nothing without God.

[Cimber]

You're right. So consider the age and time it was written and the context is just fine.

So because it was written that long ago, Giants existed? The earth was flat during that time? People can be cured of blindness by taking a bath? The sun didn't move and the moon didn't either?

[Doug1029]

Are your serious? Ok here I go.

"A land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time." There are no such thing as giants. I mean giants by the terms layed out in the Bible

"The world also is established, that it cannot be moved." Wrong again, the world revolves around the sun, and spins on its axis.

75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah. The earth isn't kept up by pillars.

11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Earth doesn't have corners, its round not flat.

43:20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen. There are no such things as dragons. The can't thank God either.

4:11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth: Again, the earth has no end. It is round not flat.

1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. Jonah could not have survived in the fishes stomach for that long.

3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear. The sun and moon both move. The moon rotates around the earth and the sun moves and rotates on its axis.

9:32 As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil. Apparently those who have mental illness or cannot talk are possed by the devil. It has nothing to do with genetic inheritance or trauma?

9:7 And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing. I am sure any blind person can do this and their sight restored? Thats not how it works unfortunately.

These are just a few of the Bible being wrong in the face of science. There are plenty of outher examples.

You have the right idea, but I'd like to hear from the other side.

P.S.: Regarding giants: there is such a thing as hyper-thyroidism. The description of Goliath is that of a hyper-thyroid giant.

Regarding dragons: they are also mentioned in Beowulf and the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. The dragon from Richard III's reign turned out to be a Nile crocodile that he brought back to England as a souvenir. The animal got loose and terrorized the countryside until winter came and it froze to death. So, at least one dragon is historical.

Regarding demonic possession: ergot poisoning (a "smut" disease on barley from wet sites) is a well-known phenomenon and makes people act in bizarre ways. As long as someone is under the influence of the poison, they could be deemed "possessed."

Regarding Siloam: there is a city of Siloam Springs, Oklahoma a few miles east of Tulsa. I don't know of any "cures" resulting from use of its water, though.

Sorry. I got side-tracked.

--Doug

[EmpressV]

Evolution can in no way explain origins. Something can not come out of nothing without God.

I have to agree with you. You do have proof of the origin of your god.

It started from men creating the entity.

Edited August 1, 2007 by EmpressV

[WalkingWithFire]

So because it was written that long ago, Giants existed? The earth was flat during that time? People can be cured of blindness by taking a bath? The sun didn't move and the moon didn't either?

Yes, apparently giants existed.

Doesn't say the "earth is flat".

Sure, apparently blindness was healed that way. Again, with God anything is possible.

What's hard to conceptualize about the sun and moon not moving?

[Beckys_Mom]

Evolution can in no way explain origins. Something can not come out of nothing without God.

Look you dont need brains to swallow up what man has written in the bible avout creation...its like a childs fairy tale..even as kiddies, we all sucked it in...who needs brains to understand it?? its too easy ----> God did it by magic..he is all powerful..<---------easy as A B C

Evolution on the other hand takes a lot more...you need to beable to understand it...and there is so much more to it..a lot more though has went into it all

WWF...thats how I see it..im FULLY entitled to

[Leonardo]

Evolution can in no way explain origins. Something can not come out of nothing without God.

You are half right here, WWF. The other half of your statement is pure speculation. I'll leave it up to you to decide which is which.