What adds real 'value' to life?

[clubfoot O.M.G.]

I've been trying to narrow down for myself what really counts in life to a few core principles.

I've come up with four which I've listed below (not necessarily in order). I would greatly appreciate anybody else's, thoughts, ideas and additions.

1. Truly unconditional Love

2. Humble Honesty

3. Genuine Empathy

4. A true 'understanding' and appreciation of the beauty and our inter-connectedness for and with Nature

[little_dreamer]

Free time to relax and spend it with who you want to, not who you have to.

[Funky Poacher]

Clubfoot, I'd agree with your list, however, I'd list your 4th option as number one and then have several subsequent notations, much like yours on your list, but in relation to nature (apathy and love towards nature, and to be honest with ourselves as to how we are truly demolishing it).

I believe living the good life was well summed up in the book "Living the Good Life" by the Nearings. Living at one with the earth, working hard for your food, not living for profit, with an appreciation for nature and the earth, and rejection material goods, and technology. Sadly, in my present state, to live thusly wouldn't be possible. But I'm thoroughly jealous of those who can live as such.

[clubfoot O.M.G.]

Free time to relax and spend it with who you want to, not who you have to.

Spot on 'L_D', I guess that we could call that one, "Freedom of Choice".

[clubfoot O.M.G.]

Clubfoot, I'd agree with your list, however, I'd list your 4th option as number one and then have several subsequent notations, much like yours on your list, but in relation to nature (apathy and love towards nature, and to be honest with ourselves as to how we are truly demolishing it).

I believe living the good life was well summed up in the book "Living the Good Life" by the Nearings. Living at one with the earth, working hard for your food, not living for profit, with an appreciation for nature and the earth, and rejection material goods, and technology. Sadly, in my present state, to live thusly wouldn't be possible. But I'm thoroughly jealous of those who can live as such.

I agree Funky Poacher, I was initially tempted not even to number them as I think that they are all important.

In relation to your last two sentences, unfortunately, I think that this is when 'material reality' (for want of a better term) kicks in. Still, it can't stop us from employing our principles, if we put our minds to it nor can it stop us from truly 'appreciating' Nature. Just my thoughts of course.

Edited September 29, 2009 by clubfoot O.M.G.

[Fitter]

I've been trying to narrow down for myself what really counts in life to a few core principles.

I've come up with four which I've listed below (not necessarily in order). I would greatly appreciate anybody else's, thoughts, ideas and additions.

1. Truly unconditional Love

2. Humble Honesty

3. Genuine Empathy

4. A true 'understanding' and appreciation of the beauty and our inter-connectedness for and with Nature

I would use a narrower three... Health, happiness and long life.

To want unconditional love is self indulgent, to give unconditional love is unrealistically unnatural

Honesty, like truth, is a matter of perspective

Empathy is unattainable, as existence is selfish

Our place in Nature changes as swiftly and as distinctly as do the trees that are swept away by the volcano. To think we are in a position to choose to respect Nature and our position on Earth is as presumptuous as it is to believe we can destroy the Earth as we please.

All of existence is rapacious to some degree. Not trying to seem negative, just realistic.

F

Edited October 6, 2009 by Fitter

[clubfoot O.M.G.]

I would use a narrower three... Health, happiness and long life.

To want unconditional love is self indulgent, to give unconditional love is unrealistically unnatural

Honesty, like truth, is a matter of perspective

Empathy is unattainable, as existence is selfish

Our place in Nature changes as swiftly and as distinctly as do the trees that are swept away by the volcano. To think we are in a position to choose to respect Nature and our position on Earth is as presumptuous as it is to believe we can destroy the Earth as we please.

All of existence is rapacious to some degree. Not trying to seem negative, just realistic.

F

I like these three too Fitter.

I agree that to want unconditional love is self-indulgent, but I'm not so sure about your second aspect re giving unconditional love. I love my children unconditionally and would give my life for them (literally) without a second's hesitation even though it conflicts with my own personal survival instinct.

'Truth', I think, is a matter of perspective, the old saying, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", is probably relevant here.

Empathy. It seems to me that people like Mother Teresa and Louisa May Alcott (author of "Little Women") were pretty empathetic people, so I actually think that empathy does exist.

Personally, I think that we can choose to respect Nature. The rapacity that you refer to I can understand, we are all part of the food chain after all, but, that is just the way that it works (I think of it more as a 'recycling process' than one of death, so to speak). My perspective is that we respect what Nature 'provides' for us without being over-indulgent or 'abusive' in the usage of 'Her' 'provisions'. (I'm not a 'greenie' either, it's just the way that I think.)

As you said before, truth is a matter of perspective and I think that every single one of us has a unique viewpoint. It doesn't necessarily mean that any of them are wrong....just different.

[Fitter]

Good answer.

I sense the difference in our outlooks has something to do with role modelling and perhaps gender ? (I unashamedly pick up on your penchant for references to notable female historical figures, and draw a conclusion from that.. Whilst you are a woman (?) I am an adult chap, with all those characteristics that that brings.... Maybe not an Alpha male... though my wife would tell me I am, and expect me to believe it !! lol but a male nonetheless....

There is another thread that I found on here today that broached the subject of which is better... males or females. I think that perhaps our different outlooks on this one subject could be the answer that that person is looking for.. That it is not only good for life that there are males and females and the differences in between, but also it is necessary for us to survive that the differences are there..

Hope we both get those values that we seek.

F

[clubfoot O.M.G.]

Good answer.

I sense the difference in our outlooks has something to do with role modelling and perhaps gender ? (I unashamedly pick up on your penchant for references to notable female historical figures, and draw a conclusion from that.. Whilst you are a woman (?) I am an adult chap, with all those characteristics that that brings.... Maybe not an Alpha male... though my wife would tell me I am, and expect me to believe it !! lol but a male nonetheless....

There is another thread that I found on here today that broached the subject of which is better... males or females. I think that perhaps our different outlooks on this one subject could be the answer that that person is looking for.. That it is not only good for life that there are males and females and the differences in between, but also it is necessary for us to survive that the differences are there..

Hope we both get those values that we seek.

F

Fitter!!......................I'm a heterosexual guy!!................my mum ain't going to be very impressed .................then again, maybe she will?

The reason that I used those female examples is because I think that nurturing is more effectively 'built in' to women than us blokes as a consequence of potential motherhood. I'm not an Alpha male either, unfortunately, I was unable to convince my ex-wife of this fact!

I think that what you were referring to previously in relation to truth and perspective is spot on. My outlook on life is based on my upbringing and my life experiences, whilst gender certainly plays a key role, I think that the other 2 turn perspective into a 'three-legged stool', metaphorically speaking.

I certainly hope that we find those values as well.

Edited October 6, 2009 by clubfoot O.M.G.

[Fitter]

Fitter!!......................I'm a heterosexual guy!!................my mum ain't going to be very impressed .................then again, maybe she will?

The reason that I used those female examples is because I think that nurturing is more effectively 'built in' to women than us blokes as a consequence of potential motherhood. I'm not an Alpha male either, unfortunately, I was unable to convince my ex-wife of this fact!

I think that what you were referring to previously in relation to truth and perspective is spot on. My outlook on life is based on my upbringing and my life experiences, whilst gender certainly plays a key role, I think that the other 2 turn perspective into a 'three-legged stool', metaphorically speaking.

I certainly hope that we find those values as well.

Ah... I see the old intuition fails me at the time I need it to make me look knowledgeable and insightful the most !!!! That and the fact that I now see 'male' printed on your profile !!

As we say over here, I won't "give up the day job" I couldn't earn a bean as a psychoanalyst !!!

All other 'on-topic' comments still hold though. All the best.

F

[clubfoot O.M.G.]

Ah... I see the old intuition fails me at the time I need it to make me look knowledgeable and insightful the most !!!! That and the fact that I now see 'male' printed on your profile !!

As we say over here, I won't "give up the day job" I couldn't earn a bean as a psychoanalyst !!!

All other 'on-topic' comments still hold though. All the best.

F

No problems Fitter, I still can't stop laughing about it, all the best to you too. I appreciated your thoughts and comments, that's why I posted the topic in the first place. I was looking for other people's perspectives to broaden my own.

[nuttychef]

Lol..oh clubfoot..getting in touch with your feminine side? If only all men would..lol.

How about

Self Acceptance or Peace? Being at peace with yourself and all that you are.Usually that extends out into life..

I think in reality each person has their own personal set of truths that give them value to their life. Where as others may view them as being shallow or not really important. We all have growth waves and the older we get usually allows us to see the simpler and more inner importance to the connection of your list above. We all have our paths to take, some slower , some quicker but in our own particular time flow.

Did I go off subject?

[Fitter]

Lol..oh clubfoot..getting in touch with your feminine side? If only all men would..lol.

How about

Self Acceptance or Peace? Being at peace with yourself and all that you are.Usually that extends out into life..

I think in reality each person has their own personal set of truths that give them value to their life. Where as others may view them as being shallow or not really important. We all have growth waves and the older we get usually allows us to see the simpler and more inner importance to the connection of your list above. We all have our paths to take, some slower , some quicker but in our own particular time flow.

Did I go off subject?

I don't think you're off subject, no. This is really where I was going with my perspectives on male and female differentiation. The male/female divide is a much more obvious one that I was able to draw attention to, but you make a very subtle addition with the differences within gender and then within maturity. Basically, you are saying that everyones expectations of life are different, which, whilst it sounds obvious, is not to be taken lightly. We can all appreciate that expectations change as we grow older, and can all frown upon the 50 something with the medallion, the sportscar and the hairy chest, but who is to say that he is wrong, and the pipe-and-slippers approach is right ?

Also, one of the things about people that fascinates me the most is how much the individual can act differently to the group.

People are rational, coherent mammals, but groups are volatile, irrational and dangerous things.

F

[nuttychef]

I don't think you're off subject, no. This is really where I was going with my perspectives on male and female differentiation. The male/female divide is a much more obvious one that I was able to draw attention to, but you make a very subtle addition with the differences within gender and then within maturity. Basically, you are saying that everyones expectations of life are different, which, whilst it sounds obvious, is not to be taken lightly. We can all appreciate that expectations change as we grow older, and can all frown upon the 50 something with the medallion, the sportscar and the hairy chest, but who is to say that he is wrong, and the pipe-and-slippers approach is right ?

Also, one of the things about people that fascinates me the most is how much the individual can act differently to the group.

People are rational, coherent mammals, but groups are volatile, irrational and dangerous things.

F

Nobody should say they are wrong or right, just different perspective I suppose. Thank you , yes that is what I was getting at..what may make you happy, may make me cringe. Doesnt make you any better, nor me.

I agree with the individual to group assessment. This is why I added the self awareness/self peace. I think if one is true to themselves and their beliefs , they cannot be swayed in a group situation to be otherwise different. It is not easy to delve out of group mentality whilst IN the group. I have yet to master this. It is a personal goal though..

[clubfoot O.M.G.]

Nobody should say they are wrong or right, just different perspective I suppose. Thank you , yes that is what I was getting at..what may make you happy, may make me cringe. Doesnt make you any better, nor me.

I agree with the individual to group assessment. This is why I added the self awareness/self peace. I think if one is true to themselves and their beliefs , they cannot be swayed in a group situation to be otherwise different. It is not easy to delve out of group mentality whilst IN the group. I have yet to master this. It is a personal goal though..

I don't think that you went off subject either and I also agree with Fitter's individual to group assessment. Groups can be both volatile and dangerous and quite often, it seems to me, that peer group, cultural, societal or even religious expectation can lead individuals down the 'wrong path', in terms of self awareness/self peace as you pointed out.