Matthew 15:21-28 (Thoughts)

[Davros of Skaro]

What are your thoughts on these verses on Jesus's reaction to a Gentile Woman?

Matthew 15:21-28 KJV

²¹ Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.

²² And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

²³ But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

²⁴ But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

²⁵ Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

²⁶ But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

²⁷ And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

²⁸ Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

NIV

The Faith of a Canaanite Woman

²¹ Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. ²² A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

²³ Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

²⁴ He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

²⁵ The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

²⁶ He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

²⁷ “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

²⁸ Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.

[ambelamba]

Well, calling someone 'Son of David' was like "He is a terrorist! Kill him!".

Seriously, that was the order given to the Roman Army stationed in Palestine. They were ordered to kill everyone who's called 'Son of David'.

Edited January 27, 2014 by ambelamba

[Eldorado]

Tribalism has no place, when you want to forgive and a truthful person asks for forgiveness and help? (only a guess)

[Davros of Skaro]

Well, calling someone 'Son of David' was like "He is a terrorist! Kill him!".

Seriously, that was the order given to the Roman Army stationed in Palestine. They were ordered to kill everyone who's called 'Son of David'.

So the Gentile Woman was a Patriot to Rome?

[ambelamba]

So the Gentile Woman was a Patriot to Rome?

More like a major plot hole.

[Davros of Skaro]

More like a major plot hole.

Or inside jokes to a certain audience?

[+Paranoid Android]

I think it's a nod to the power of faith. Faith is not something small and insignificant, not something that gets put on the shelf when not needed. Jesus was quite honest - his earthly ministry was primarily for Jews. But in the woman's response that everyone should get something, Jesus jumps to the heart if what faith is. Despite the setback she refused to give up, and was ultimately rewarded with a full portion.

[Davros of Skaro]

I think it's a nod to the power of faith. Faith is not something small and insignificant, not something that gets put on the shelf when not needed. Jesus was quite honest - his earthly ministry was primarily for Jews. But in the woman's response that everyone should get something, Jesus jumps to the heart if what faith is. Despite the setback she refused to give up, and was ultimately rewarded with a full portion.

Is that why only those that humbled themselves to God has Jesus, and the Holy Spirit filled in their heart?

[gracy4033]

I really liked this & believe it was a beautiful parable. / Jesus taught in ' Parables' = as in for , teach-

ing moral lessons . just lift you eyes to Matthew15:08 - 09....... the beauty I saw was , the woman went to Jesus

and asked not for her self..... See. I believe. ..who knows ... Jesus taught in parable.On the other hand one could say.. I don't know how long this it took to show up In the bible...? matthew, was a friend to Jesus.... friends always get things wrong. thought it was lovely though....

[+Paranoid Android]

Is that why only those that humbled themselves to God has Jesus, and the Holy Spirit filled in their heart?

The Holy Spirit is a gift given to all Christians after Pentecost as a guarantee (a down payment, if you will) of a place in God's kingdom. At the time of the Canaanite woman, the Holy Spirit was still a unique gift from God they could be given to anyone and taken away at any time.

So I wouldn't say the faith of the Canaanite woman has anything to do with the Spirit but everything to do with Jesus.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Paranoid Android

[Davros of Skaro]

The Holy Spirit is a gift given to all Christians after Pentecost as a guarantee (a down payment, if you will) of a place in God's kingdom. At the time of the Canaanite woman, the Holy Spirit was still a unique gift from God they could be given to anyone and taken away at any time.

So I wouldn't say the faith of the Canaanite woman has anything to do with the Spirit but everything to do with Jesus.

I was talking about Christians like yourself, and not the Woman in the verse.I imagine there is enough Holy Spirit to go around for everyone, but scripture foreshadows a rightious harvest as if the select Fruit of the Vine is collected for God's Kingdom.

[+Paranoid Android]

I was talking about Christians like yourself, and not the Woman in the verse.I imagine there is enough Holy Spirit to go around for everyone, but scripture foreshadows a rightious harvest as if the select Fruit of the Vine is collected for God's Kingdom.

Why would you be asking me about the HS in my life, in response to a comment I'd made about a woman's faith in the Bible?

But as a matter of simple theology, all Christians have the Holy Spirit, what the New Testament refers to as the "Paraclete". This is given on acceptance of Jesus' death and resurrection for us, and our action in turning towards God and seeking his will.

Though the question becomes a little trickier when asking whether sometime is truly repentant and reliant on God, hence Jesus' comments on hypocrites, they not everyone who declares "lord, lord" is actually saved.

[Davros of Skaro]

Why would you be asking me about the HS in my life, in response to a comment I'd made about a woman's faith in the Bible?

But as a matter of simple theology, all Christians have the Holy Spirit, what the New Testament refers to as the "Paraclete". This is given on acceptance of Jesus' death and resurrection for us, and our action in turning towards God and seeking his will.

Though the question becomes a little trickier when asking whether sometime is truly repentant and reliant on God, hence Jesus' comments on hypocrites, they not everyone who declares "lord, lord" is actually saved.

That's good to know.

Mark 7:25-30 KJV

25 For a woman whose young daughter had an unclean spirit heard about Him, and she came and

fell at His feet. 26 The woman was a Greek, a Syro-Phoenician by birth, and she kept asking

Him to cast the demon out of her daughter. 27 But Jesus said to her, “Let the children be

filled first, for it is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little

dogs.”

28 And she answered and said to Him, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs under the table

eat from the children’s crumbs.”

29 Then He said to her, “For this saying go your way; the demon has gone out of your

daughter.”

30 And when she had come to her house, she found the demon gone out, and her daughter lying

on the bed.

NIV

25 In fact, as soon as she heard about him, a woman whose little daughter was possessed by

an impure spirit came and fell at his feet. 26 The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian

Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.

27 “First let the children eat all they want,” he told her, “for it is not right to take the

children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

28 “Lord,” she replied, “even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.”

29 Then he told her, “For such a reply, you may go; the demon has left your daughter.”

30 She went home and found her child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.

Matthew 10:5

5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles

or enter any town of the Samaritans.

[SHaYap]

... to avoid espionage or spies among the 'unclean' gentiles ?

To stay in the shadows away from the glare of the Eagle Standard till the day the yoke of ROme is torn 'asunder' ?

~ a dog begging for crumbs one day may yet prove to be a great ally in time of need ? Did Paul later claim compensation from these 'dogs' for the crumbs that was the price of JC's sacrifice for the gentile souls ?

~

[Leonardo]

I would ask what faith was it that the woman had?

She was not of Israel, and worshipped different gods. Sure, she may have heard Jesus was a healer, and so pinned her hopes on that, but that does not make her "faithful unto the Lord".

She professes no faith except faith in "healing magic", so what faith was it that Jesus referred to?

Of course, examining the narrative rationally/critically means little if the story was invented (as a rhetoric) simply to 'demonstrate' to an uneducated audience the power of the Jewish god.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Leonardo

[Almagest]

I had to find those verses myself to confirm their existence, I was that stunned. Isn't Christ supposed to be the perfect moral teacher? He comes across as a racial supremacist to me. Surely healing the daughter would have been an adequate demonstration of the power of Yahweh without forcing her to admit that she is lesser to the Children of David?

[GoldenWolf]

I had to find those verses myself to confirm their existence, I was that stunned. Isn't Christ supposed to be the perfect moral teacher? He comes across as a racial supremacist to me. Surely healing the daughter would have been an adequate demonstration of the power of Yahweh without forcing her to admit that she is lesser to the Children of David?

You would think...

[Davros of Skaro]

Indeed Jesus has a fluffy feel good persona about him that followers impose.Jesus gets mad at the money changers in the Temple but never says one word about slavery.

Even the recent dead gets no love from Jesus.

Matthew 8:21-22

²¹ And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

²² But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Like Father, like Son.

Matthew 10:14-15

¹⁴ And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

¹⁵ Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Conan the Barbarian would be proud.

Matthew 10:34

³⁴ Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Faith in Jesus will divide families.

Matthew 10:35-37

³⁵ For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

³⁶ And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

³⁷ He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Sweet Jesus.

Matthew 12:30

³⁰ He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Here is a good read.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2008/06/30/the-screwed-up-teachings-of-jesus/

Edited January 27, 2014 by davros of skaro

[Almagest]

It seems to me that those parents who shun their gay or atheist children are doing right by Christ. The fact that those of us with a functioning moral compass are repulsed by the idea is a major strike against the moral perfection of Christ.