The longer we stay, the more terrorists

[AROCES]

Are you surrre you're not from Russia? Because that my friend is a communist nazi fascist belief. It is not American. We fought wars over that kind of attittude.

Nope, I for one don't see the US Armed Forces or Law eforcement as some NAZI or state police of a communist country. While you think otherwise, echoing the charges of Hugo Chavez, the Terrorist and Bob26003 . You sure you are not from Tora Bora?

Edited July 20, 2007 by AROCES

[Aztec Warrior]

QUOTE(AROCES @ Jul 19 2007, 11:27 AM)

So terrorist to you are not criminals, and they are law abiding.

If the State troopers came hunting those who wants me to submit myself to their Tyranical rule and would kill me if I resist. Then I would accep whatever it takes to root them out of my neighborhood. I rather rebuild or see myself and some good folks as casualties of fighting the bad guys, than merely beheaded for not agreeing with the terrorist without a fight!

Are you surrre you're not from Russia? Because that my friend is a communist nazi fascist belief. It is not American. We fought wars over that kind of attittude.

You didn't understand what he was saying. He would forgo some temporary civil liberties or have his neighborhood flattened in order to win and kill the terrorists. Can't make an omelete without breaking a few eggs.............something the left will never understand.

Edited July 20, 2007 by Aztec Warrior

[+joc]

I don't know about Aroces, but that pretty much sum's it up for me. Of course not EVERY Palestinian is a terrorist, that would be an absolute. But the liberals are mostly sympathizers or conspiracy nuts.........that's for sure.

Unfortunately that is pretty much true. It will be interesting to see the outcome of the 2008 elections. My prediction is that if Republicans win the White House an increase in the War Effort will proceed. My prediction is that if Democrats own the White House an escalation of War Effort will bring us to the brink of WWIII. If you kookjobs think Hillary will bring the troops home you are crazier than we think you are! She will escalate the hostilities without a plan, without a conscience. In a nutshell...she will try to win the damn thing and bring the whole world to the table of Armageddon.

She is a liar and a thief! That's not my opinion...that is fact.

[AROCES]

Right there you are describing some of the feeling some folks in the ME are going through. That is how some people see the situation there, obviously (even if that's not truly the situation). That is how some of the terrorists are born.

And your concern are those who are joining the ones bombing the Iraqis, while my concern are the ones who voted and wanted a new Iraq. That is where our concern differs.

No, I don't consider terrorists law-abiding; I should have used italics when talking about criminals. I was merely pointing out they are a domestic problem. As I've said numerous times, the terrorists clearly had a stronghold in Afghanistan; in essence it was a country run by the ones who attacked you (in my view) and therefore ousting of the Taliban regime was justified. Iraq, now that's a another story. To break it down: some muslims in the ME feel that infidels (Westerners) are illegally on their land, trying to occupy their land and assimilate them as part of the Western culture. It is the constant Western presence and meddling that keeps breeding that hatred.

And what do you think of Iraq attacking Iran, Kuwait , the Kurds, gas attack, mass graves and continous UN resolutions, no fly zone and whatever????

Now some Iraqis hate us for we put a stop to such regime once and for all? SO WHAT????

Despite the fact that I think the longer you stay, the more terrorists there will be, I'm not sure if you should pull out. I'm only saying no one should have gone there in the first place.

Sure, no one goes there while Saddam continue on with his SUCCESSFUL corruption of the UN and 2 key allies. And in a few years we are in Resolution 50 and wondering how Saddam was able to rebuild his arsenals.

Edited July 20, 2007 by AROCES

[Bob26003]

Better take a break from the board for a while. Looks like somebody has been feeding the Bushies catnip again.........

[Clocker]

Yeah, when did we ever take control of the Iraqi Oil Field, got it's Oil, set Policies for it and market in on our won???

Don't twist things like that. I never claimed you did, though there's been talk of privatizing those fields for multinationals..which happen to BIG lobbyists in the US too Plus, they HAVE been making a killing in the last few years; AFTER the invasion. What I was saying though, was if you justify the invasion by saying 'oil flow needs to be free in the free market', I say that if we live in a free market, each country/regime has the right to decide whether they want to sell their oil or not.

[Clocker]

And your concern are those who are joining the ones bombing the Iraqis, while my concern are the ones who voted and wanted a new Iraq. That is where our concern differs.

You misinterpret me. It is not my concern, if there's a concern to me in Iraq, it's the country and the people as a whole. It's not like the voters and the terrorists were born with a stamp on their forehead; some things along the way have grown them to be like that. THAT, if anything, is my concern. It is always easy to label and categorize people; that just won't give you a very good understanding of the big picture. Let me make this clear though: I was citing reasons for the existence of those insurgents; sure, different reasons for different insurgents/terrorists, those were just some general ones. And you admitted you would be fighting if someone invaded your hometown/country...that is how some of those people feel, that's why they choose to fight.

And what do you think of Iraq attacking Iran, Kuwait , the Kurds, gas attack, mass graves and continous UN resolutions, no fly zone and whatever????

Now some Iraqis hate us for we put a stop to such regime once and for all? SO WHAT????

Again, I was citing reasons for the existence of the insurgents/terrorists. However, I doubt the people have been much better off during the war and all the turmoil it's caused. Yes, you may have put an end to a terrible regime...how valuable that was, only time will tell. Who's to say the next one won't be worse? It certainly doesn't look good now. So I'll hold my horses, and suggest you do the same. But, I won't go as far as to say Iraq wasn't asking for it at all.

Sure, no one goes there while Saddam continue on with his SUCCESSFUL corruption of the UN and 2 key allies. And in a few years we are in Resolution 50 and wondering how Saddam was able to rebuild his arsenals.

I won't even comment on the corruption other than it existed. That last sentence is unfounded speculation, nothing else.

[Dan'O]

was merely pointing out they are a domestic problem.

Islamic terrorists are not just a domestic problem.

To break it down: some muslims in the ME feel that infidels (Westerners) are illegally on their land, trying to occupy their land and assimilate them as part of the Western culture. It is the constant Western presence and meddling that keeps breeding that hatred.

That may be the case in some circumstances but no, Islamic terrorists attack many "infidels" all over planet. Just about anywhere Islamic lands end. From Africa, the ME, southern Russia, Thailand, Bali, or the Phillipines. Western presence and meddling? lol Free markets are ****ed up eh? Buying of US ports, land and companies in the US and the rest of the infidel filled world is not presence or meddling by rich Muslims? Tit for tat then? Maybe we should all go to the dance and plung this sh**hole rock in space into chaos? Thats what the Jihadi wants. Al Queda was bored and hungered for the glory days of the mujihadeen and fighting the bear. They started the fight and if you want to buy into the whole meddling, western presence thing that is your right but I am calling bulls***.

That last sentence is unfounded speculation, nothing else.

Actually the topic of this thread is speculation. The partner topic of "The invasion of Iraq has created more terrorists" or "The US/West is less safe now" is speculation too. Although it may be the case it can not be proven with empirical evidence. If you could go back in time and change history and see then you could get an answer. No one can say with 100% certainty that not taking Saddam and Bathist Regime out would have made the world a better/safer place. It very well may have been or soon to be a post apocolyptic s***hole by now if Saddam had not been taken down. No one knows.

Also I bet that some soldiers fighting have a much easier time/mindset fighting foreign jihadi then native Iraqi's. I am sure most people in the world want the people that attack civilians on purpose to be brought down. Thats what needs to be done. Kill the killers of innocents. Whether it is done by the Iraqi forces, US/UK or any other non-homicidal maniacal group it really doesn't matter.

[Clocker]

Islamic terrorists are not just a domestic problem.

I was referring to ordinary criminals, you're quoting out of context.

That may be the case in some circumstances but no, Islamic terrorists attack many "infidels" all over planet. Just about anywhere Islamic lands end. From Africa, the ME, southern Russia, Thailand, Bali, or the Phillipines. Western presence and meddling? lol Free markets are ****ed up eh? Buying of US ports, land and companies in the US and the rest of the infidel filled world is not presence or meddling by rich Muslims? Tit for tat then? Maybe we should all go to the dance and plung this sh**hole rock in space into chaos? Thats what the Jihadi wants. Al Queda was bored and hungered for the glory days of the mujihadeen and fighting the bear. They started the fight and if you want to buy into the whole meddling, western presence thing that is your right but I am calling bulls***.

What about long-time US presence in Saudi Arabia before 911? What about arming insurgents in Afghanistan in the 80s? What about supporting Saddam at the same time? What about invading Iraq to oust the same Saddam a few decades later? What about forming a state for all Jews in ME? That's what I call Western meddling. And no, I'm not simply believing in it; it has actually happened. And who cares about some rich muslims or whatever coming to the West and buying ports, we're still the ones well off. Let me put it this way: what if things were the other way around? What if the ME was the superpower and they would install new governments in our countries every now and then? Like, if they considered GW a threat and invaded the US, threw him out of the office and bombed you cities to ruins? I know it isn't exactly like that but don't you understand that is how some people down there perceive the situation? If you really think this fight started with 911, you're dead wrong and simply fail to see things in long term, and the big picture in general.

Of course there are problems with muslim extremism in other regions than just the ME. Different individuals have different motives. Some of them are definitely outright insane, some just want to veil their lust for violence in religion. That still doesn't cast away the fact that most terrorists come from those very regions that I described, in which a lot of people feel oppressed by the West, even if the oppression is partly imagined. I know I'd have a few gripes if Russia suddenly decided to occupy Finland for security reasons or whatever, even if they let us have a complete autonomy.

Actually the topic of this thread is speculation. The partner topic of "The invasion of Iraq has created more terrorists" or "The US/West is less safe now" is speculation too. Although it may be the case it can not be proven with empirical evidence. If you could go back in time and change history and see then you could get an answer. No one can say with 100% certainty that not taking Saddam and Bathist Regime out would have made the world a better/safer place. It very well may have been or soon to be a post apocolyptic s***hole by now if Saddam had not been taken down. No one knows.

Also I bet that some soldiers fighting have a much easier time/mindset fighting foreign jihadi then native Iraqi's. I am sure most people in the world want the people that attack civilians on purpose to be brought down. Thats what needs to be done. Kill the killers of innocents. Whether it is done by the Iraqi forces, US/UK or any other non-homicidal maniacal group it really doesn't matter.

You're right. This topic is speculation. However, it's not unfounded speculation, which is what Aroces was doing. I agree 100% with the first paragraph there. In fact, I totally agree with the second paragraph as well.

[ships-cat]

"The longer we stay, the more terrorists we create"

Weeeell.... that might ring true if terrorist acts in Iraq where primarily targetting Allied forces. It would indicate a rising tide of hostility to the occupation, with more and more citizens becoming radicalised and turning to terrorism. However, the suicide bomb attacks are actually (mostly) sectarian attacks between Sunni and Sh'ite groups. That suggests to me that the occupation is NOT creating terrorists.... but rather it is the absence of an authoritarian and repressive regime (sadam) that is allowing age-old grievences to emerge.

On the other hand, if Allied occupation IS causing increased militancy between Shi'ite and Sunni's, then lets stay by all means. Let them kill each other, and then we can hand the empty land over to the Kurds.

Ooooh - no - even better. Once the Shi'ites and Sunni's have killed each other, lets give the empty land to the Israeli's. That will REALLY be a slap in the face for Iran

Meow Purr.

Edited July 20, 2007 by ships-cat

[Dan'O]

What about long-time US presence in Saudi Arabia before 911?

What about it? The Saudi government wanted the US there. Blame them. Or better yet blame the religious culture of homicidal maniacs that lets the radical behavior fester.

What about arming insurgents in Afghanistan in the 80s?

What about it? The Mujahadeen were fighting the Soviets before the CIA went in. Armed with what? Some Aks? Some RPKs? some RPGs? AKRs? 14.5mm? Eastbloc weapons my Finnish friend. Some Stingers? Yeah OK...we armed them. Whatever.

What about supporting Saddam at the same time?

What about the start of radical Islam in Iran due to twisted, so-called religious leaders who want to spread Islam through violence?. What about the taking of US Hostages? Because the Shah got some medical aid or advise from some CIA agent? Please...

What about invading Iraq to oust the same Saddam a few decades later?

He obviously had some mental/psychotic problems.

What about forming a state for all Jews in ME?

Blame the UN as a whole. I never really cared for the UN much anyway. Pretty lackluster when it comes to really stepping up. Lets not mention that Isreal was there thousands of years ago though.

That's what I call Western meddling.

OK good for you. I am not seeing the justification of murderous attacks on civilians or western assetts as being justified by anything you just posted. But feel free to back the homicidal freaks.

And no, I'm not simply believing in it; it has actually happened.

If you say so. Got some links?

And who cares about some rich muslims or whatever coming to the West and buying ports, we're still the ones well off.

Maybe the spreading of wealth happens more in the west? Maybe the uber rich ME states with billions or more in oil like to keep their people down? I guess I would be p***ed too.

Let me put it this way: what if things were the other way around? What if the ME was the superpower and they would install new governments in our countries every now and then?

Link? Yes we control everything? We can send in a agent or three and topple governments. No native countrymen ever have anything to do with governments toppling. Grow up.

Like, if they considered GW a threat and invaded the US, threw him out of the office and bombed you cities to ruins? I know it isn't exactly like that but don't you understand that is how some people down there perceive the situation?

Bad analogy. You offer no proof of anything like that has happened. Not that way anyway. GW never gassed his own populace or a neighboring country. If he did we as Americans would step the **** up ourselves and take care of our own business. Maybe Obama is some Indonesian/Muslim agent?

Yeah ok lol

If you really think this fight started with 911, you're dead wrong and simply fail to see things in long term, and the big picture in general.

I never mentioned 9/11. I am well aware of the roots of radical/not-so-radical Islam. Don't pretend to know me.

Of course there are problems with muslim extremism in other regions than just the ME.

No **** huh? I for one am seeing a pattern here.

Different individuals have different motives. Some of them are definitely outright insane, some just want to veil their lust for violence in religion. That still doesn't cast away the fact that most terrorists come from those very regions that I described, in which a lot of people feel oppressed by the West, even if the oppression is partly imagined.

Wrong. Native freedom fighters aside the preponderance of information shows that Islam is the aggressor and hatred and homicidal psychotic behavior is taught and promoted at some of the highest levels of the so-called religion and in nearly every corner. This isn't even radical really with the doctors in the UK. Pretty damn mainstream really. The indoctrination of children all over Islamic lands is sick and will perpetuate their vile agenda for years to come.

I know I'd have a few gripes if Russia suddenly decided to occupy Finland for security reasons or whatever, even if they let us have a complete autonomy.

They already have been there and did that. Maybe they thought Finland just sucks so bad they don't want to anymore.

[Clocker]

What about it? The Saudi government wanted the US there. Blame them. Or better yet blame the religious culture of homicidal maniacs that lets the radical behavior fester.

What about it? The Mujahadeen were fighting the Soviets before the CIA went in. Armed with what? Some Aks? Some RPKs? some RPGs? AKRs? 14.5mm? Eastbloc weapons my Finnish friend. Some Stingers? Yeah OK...we armed them. Whatever.

What about the start of radical Islam in Iran due to twisted, so-called religious leaders who want to spread Islam through violence?. What about the taking of US Hostages? Because the Shah got some medical aid or advise from some CIA agent? Please...

He obviously had some mental/psychotic problems.

Blame the UN as a whole. I never really cared for the UN much anyway. Pretty lackluster when it comes to really stepping up. Lets not mention that Isreal was there thousands of years ago though.

OK good for you. I am not seeing the justification of murderous attacks on civilians or western assetts as being justified by anything you just posted. But feel free to back the homicidal freaks.

If you say so. Got some links?

Links? I don't think I'll have to provide any links concerning the things I mentioned, the things you comment on there; it's common knowledge. You never even tried to deny Western meddling. Notice: I didn't say US meddling cause US has clearly not been the only one. I never was blaming the US exclusively. I'm not trying to put the blame on any party exclusively here. Neither am I backing anyone murdering anyone. I'm just saying there's a reason for it. If you want to understand things, you should try to look from different angles, not just from your own. Geez, does everything always have to be so black and white?

Maybe the spreading of wealth happens more in the west? Maybe the uber rich ME states with billions or more in oil like to keep their people down? I guess I would be p***ed too.

Link? Yes we control everything? We can send in a agent or three and topple governments. No native countrymen ever have anything to do with governments toppling. Grow up.

Bad analogy. You offer no proof of anything like that has happened. Not that way anyway. GW never gassed his own populace or a neighboring country. If he did we as Americans would step the **** up ourselves and take care of our own business. Maybe Obama is some Indonesian/Muslim agent?

Yeah ok lol

Link to what? Control everything? Again I was referring to Iraq; are you getting paranoid? I don't understand how you interpreted my post into some anti-American conspiracy theory. Well, I guess we're all a bit sensitive here after another week at work. It was purely hypothetical, one that I hoped would have brought my point into brighter light. I was trying to point out how it would feel to some people if a foreign superpower was occupying your land.

I never mentioned 9/11. I am well aware of the roots of radical/not-so-radical Islam. Don't pretend to know me.

Well aware? Please. You've showed no evidence of being well aware. But, fair enough, perhaps I was putting words in your mouth. I shouldn't have done that and I'm sorry if I did.

No **** huh? I for one am seeing a pattern here.

Wrong. Native freedom fighters aside the preponderance of information shows that Islam is the aggressor and hatred and homicidal psychotic behavior is taught and promoted at some of the highest levels of the so-called religion and in nearly every corner. This isn't even radical really with the doctors in the UK. Pretty damn mainstream really. The indoctrination of children all over Islamic lands is sick and will perpetuate their vile agenda for years to come.

I don't think I have to provide a link to what mainstream means. It does not mean something that is embraced by a small minority. Would you please show me how the majority of muslims are suicidal maniacs at present, or on their way to become ones? A link perhaps, but a literary source would be fine just as well. However, I do agree with the last sentence; indoctrination of children really is sick and shouldn't happen.

They already have been there and did that. Maybe they thought Finland just sucks so bad they don't want to anymore.

And you're telling me to grow up? Seriously, that was uncalled for.

[Bella-Angelique]

It is taught in the schools to the very young. They may come out barely reading but they come out hating with the desire to kill very well.

This is the beginning and this must be where the end is as well.

[Dusty Digital]

"The longer we stay, the more terrorists we create"

Weeeell.... that might ring true if terrorist acts in Iraq where primarily targetting Allied forces. It would indicate a rising tide of hostility to the occupation, with more and more citizens becoming radicalised and turning to terrorism. However, the suicide bomb attacks are actually (mostly) sectarian attacks between Sunni and Sh'ite groups. That suggests to me that the occupation is NOT creating terrorists.... but rather it is the absence of an authoritarian and repressive regime (sadam) that is allowing age-old grievences to emerge.

I've been thinking about that as well. A diplomat I talked to a while back (it was a few years ago actually) was of the opinion that Iraq is a country so divided, (with the allegiance of the population mainly to their own clan and not the nation) that Saddam's type oppressive regime was the only working solution. She was of the opinion that without a "strong-arm-man" the differences and rivalries between the clans would in themselves cause the country to deteriorate into civil war. This does not mean, however, that the U.S. isn't responsible.

[Dan'O]

Links? I don't think I'll have to provide any links concerning the things I mentioned, the things you comment on there; it's common knowledge.

Common knowledge that there was no arming of Mujahadeen? They pretty much armed themselves. Besides a few dozen crates of stingers? That does not constitute the arming of them. back peddle all you want though.

You never even tried to deny Western meddling.

Again. I did. Every sentence in fact. Bring up them each. Specifically then and we'll address them.

Notice: I didn't say US meddling cause US has clearly not been the only one. I never was blaming the US exclusively. I'm not trying to put the blame on any party exclusively here.

Generalizing in a general way all the while you try to perform some pseudo debate? Huh? Be specific then.

Neither am I backing anyone murdering anyone. I'm just saying there's a reason for it.

LMAO. You say there is a reason. That is backing it. WTF!?

If you want to understand things, you should try to look from different angles, not just from your own. Geez, does everything always have to be so black and white?

WTF are you talking about. If I want to understand things? Angles? Black and white? Your funny.

Link to what?

Link to the statement I addressed that you failed to include in your latest post that you quoted me in.

Control everything? Again I was referring to Iraq;

Saddam had it coming for many reasons. And it was not just Western countries that went into Iraq.

are you getting paranoid?

How is that? Are you?

I don't understand how you interpreted my post into some anti-American conspiracy theory.

Where did I say that. I address your severely lacking posts and then you declare that I am interpreting your post in some "anti-American conspiracy theory"? Nice try. But frankly I don't care what you think what I think.

Well, I guess we're all a bit sensitive here after another week at work.

Well I hope your weekend goes a little better then your posts.

It was purely hypothetical, one that I hoped would have brought my point into brighter light. I was trying to point out how it would feel to some people if a foreign superpower was occupying your land.

It must suck. But...BUT it must suck even more when Jihadi come in and start promoting sectarian violence and massacring innocents en'mass.

I don't think I have to provide a link to what mainstream means.

Not sure why you would.

It does not mean something that is embraced by a small minority.

It means that even television shows promote it. Islamic leaders both governmental and religious call for the destruction of other lands. Links...naw look them up yourself.

Would you please show me how the majority of Muslims are suicidal maniacs at present, or on their way to become ones?

I never said majority. Nice try at putting words in my foul mouth. But in regards to mainstream I just did. Hamas mouse. television is pretty mainstream. Many more look them up. Madrases are a well known recruitment /teaching point for violence in Islamic lands.

A link perhaps, but a literary source would be fine just as well.

OK now yourjust getting silly. Your want the ISBN s or title and author lol...

However, I do agree with the last sentence; indoctrination of children really is sick and shouldn't happen.

Damn straight. Mainstream Madrases I guess?

"And you're telling me to grow up? Seriously, that was uncalled for."

One never knows what those Russians are thinking. It could have happened. It is just speculation.

I am sure Finland is very nice. More speculation though.

[Clocker]

Common knowledge that there was no arming of Mujahadeen? They pretty much armed themselves. Besides a few dozen crates of stingers? That does not constitute the arming of them. back peddle all you want though.

Again. I did. Every sentence in fact. Bring up them each. Specifically then and we'll address them.

Generalizing in a general way all the while you try to perform some pseudo debate? Huh? Be specific then.

LMAO. You say there is a reason. That is backing it. WTF!?

WTF are you talking about. If I want to understand things? Angles? Black and white? Your funny.

Link to the statement I addressed that you failed to include in your latest post that you quoted me in.

Saddam had it coming for many reasons. And it was not just Western countries that went into Iraq.

How is that? Are you?

I don't understand how you interpreted my post into some anti-American conspiracy theory.

Where did I say that. I address your severely lacking posts and then you declare that I am interpreting your post in some "anti-American conspiracy theory"? Nice try. But frankly I don't care what you think what I think.

Well I hope your weekend goes a little better then your posts.

It must suck. But...BUT it must suck even more when Jihadi come in and start promoting sectarian violence and massacring innocents en'mass.

Not sure why you would.

It means that even television shows promote it. Islamic leaders both governmental and religious call for the destruction of other lands. Links...naw look them up yourself.

I never said majority. Nice try at putting words in my foul mouth. But in regards to mainstream I just did. Hamas mouse. television is pretty mainstream. Many more look them up. Madrases are a well known recruitment /teaching point for violence in Islamic lands.

OK now yourjust getting silly. Your want the ISBN s or title and author lol...

Damn straight. Mainstream Madrases I guess?

"And you're telling me to grow up? Seriously, that was uncalled for."

One never knows what those Russians are thinking. It could have happened. It is just speculation.

I am sure Finland is very nice. More speculation though.

1. I IS common knowledge that the countries/population in present Israel weren't exactly willing to establish a new country for Jews in their lands. It IS common knowledge that Osama's buddies in Afghanistan back in the day were trained by CIA. It IS common knowledge that the US supported Saddam. It IS common knowledge the US had a military presence in SA, no matter who wanted it. And last, it IS common knowledge that there's a war in Iraq. All of this IS Western meddling, no matter how you try to twist it.

2. By saying there's a reason is NOT backing up. There's a reason for everything in case you haven't realized. Understanding there is a reason is just that, understanding. And you can't really try to solve anything without understanding the problem and all its aspects first.

3. "your funny"? In that case you must be simple. I meant that in order to understand problems you need to try to consider every aspect of the problem. This is very common knowledge, applied in science all the time. I'm not even that much into science, yet I know that much.

4. No matter what, forces occupying a country instigate resentment. Despite the fact that things might be worse off for them without those forces. Then again, that is speculation; we don't know that. As to mainstream, fair enough, I thought you were referring to mainstream Islam.

Admitted, I'm a lazy quoter compared to you. I find it easier to structure my text into paragraphs/sections; hence the numbering.

[Dan'O]

lol Soooo you are saying Jihad actions are warranted because of what you and other backers of homicidal, psychotic maniacs perceive as meddling?

So what are you trying to say? 9/11 was justified?

Israeli's kicked some Arab ass and got their homeland back?

Usama paid for, wanted and didn't get course #2 in hill country fighting? Like those boys never knew how to fight?

Saddam liked attacking people that take Americans hostage while taking over another countries land under the command of religious zealots?

That some people didn't agree with a policy or a Kings decision?

No seriously what are you trying to say? I mean with your whole meddling theme. Since your sounding like Bin Laden's towel boy.

[Bob26003]

lol Soooo you are saying Jihad actions are warranted because of what you and other backers of homicidal, psychotic maniacs perceive as meddling?

So what are you trying to say? 9/11 was justified?

Israeli's kicked some Arab ass and got their homeland back?

Usama paid for, wanted and didn't get course #2 in hill country fighting? Like those boys never knew how to fight?

Saddam liked attacking people that take Americans hostage while taking over another countries land under the command of religious zealots?

That some people didn't agree with a policy or a Kings decision?

No seriously what are you trying to say? I mean with your whole meddling theme. Since your sounding like Bin Laden's towel boy.

We have been meddling for years. We overthrew the democratically elected Iranian leader in the fifties. We prop up anti Democratic dictators, often Human Rights Abusers. We finance Israels repeated Human Rights abuses. And most recent, we illegally and immorally invade and occupy a Nation.

They hate us for a reason man.

Do some research

[Dan'O]

We? No the Iranians did. Those are excuses to wage war on infidels. You do some research. They hate everyone. Kill some Buddist monks? Who the **** wants to kill Buddist monks? Jihadi. Muslim extremists(?) All taught and nurtured by supposed religious leaders and indoctrinating schools.

Who wants to kill women and children? Jihadi

Who wants to relive the glory days of Jihad? Jihadi.

Those are all excuses Bob. You do some research.

[Bob26003]

We? No the Iranians did. Those are excuses to wage war on infidels. You do some research. They hate everyone. Kill some Buddist monks? Who the **** wants to kill Buddist monks? Jihadi. Muslim extremists(?) All taught and nurtured by supposed religious leaders and indoctrinating schools.

Who wants to kill women and children? Jihadi

Who wants to relive the glory days of Jihad? Jihadi.

Those are all excuses Bob. You do some research.

Wrong Bud..............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax

The 1953 Iranian coup d'état removed the nationalist cabinet of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh from power, supported by a covert operation, codenamed Operation Ajax (officially TP-AJAX) by the United Kingdom and the United States.[1] The coup was performed in order to support the Pahlavi dynasty and consolidate the power of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, attempting to preserve the Western control of Iran's oil infrastructure and to prevent the rising influence of communists in the Iranian government.[2] The coup was the culmination of a long conflict between Mossadeq, the Shah, and the parliament of Iran. Former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, during the administration of President Bill Clinton, made an apology to the Iranian people in 2000 for the United States' role in the overthrow.[3]

[Dan'O]

Giving support does not mean "we" overthrew them. The Iranians still did it.

Modern Jihad just uses these things as convenient excuses to wage war on infidels. We could go back in history and dig up all kinds of stuff on all sides of the coin.

[Bob26003]

Giving support does not mean "we" overthrew them. The Iranians still did it.

Modern Jihad just uses these things as convenient excuses to wage war on infidels. We could go back in history and dig up all kinds of stuff on all sides of the coin.

Well, Palestinian homes are still being bulldozed and Palestinians are still being slaughtered. The UN estimated that over 100,000 innocent Iraq children died as a result of the sanctions. Some say that at least 650,000 Iraqis have died since the invasion.

Is that enough?

[Celumnaz]

Some say that at least 650,000 Iraqis have died since the invasion.

are they correct or are they just saying it?

[questionmark]

are they correct or are they just saying it?

Not quite, but it is not far away from that. On the other side, 20% more or less don't make it less horrific.

[Dan'O]

Yeah I doubt some of the numbers but you have a point. Any innocent deaths are too many.

But it doesn't negate deaths from terrorists/extremists either. Oh those Buddhist monks had it coming didn't they? The Hindu's did something too I am sure...?

And how dare they flee a fire with their faces showing. The children of Beslan? Come on, terrorists/extremists are the enemy of the world and right now they seem to flock to Iraq in droves. We'll see what happens...

You keep calling those injustices though Bob. I salute you for all legitimate ones you make. Just don't forget the other side of the coin.