Democrats failed strategy

[supercar]

people like you wonder why the rest of the world hates America so much.

If the rest of the world hates America why do hundreds of thousands of families send their relateives to university here:

'With just under 565,000 foreign students, the US remains the world's most popular destination for students looking to further their education in another country'

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1116/p03s03-usgn.html

'International enrollments reached 564,766 last year, a fraction of a percentage point less than the previous year's 565,039, says Open Doors 2006, released today by the Institute of International Education and financed by the State Department.

This marks the seventh straight year that the USA has hosted more than half a million foreign students, the report says. Enrollment peaked at 586,323 in the 2002-03 academic year'

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/200...nrollment_x.htm

The rest of the world does not hate us. You just want people to think the rest of the world hates us. Name one country that was an allie of the United States before the Iraq war that is not an allie now.

[supercar]

This war was never about the Iraqis and never will be it's been one disaster after another

Yeah let's look at some of the 'disasters':

Success- invasion of Iraq

Success- destruction of Iraq's armed forces

Success- occupation of Iraq's capitol city

Success- occupation of all of Iraq

Success- removal of Iraq's government

Success- free elections

Success- capture of Saddam Hussein

Success- death of Uday and Qusay Hussein

Success- death of Al-Zarqawi

Success- capture of 50 out 55 on Iraq's 'Most Wanted' list

Success- introduction of new Iraqi currency

Success- formation of the new Iraqi Army

Success- Iraqi army operates independantly

Success- more free elections

Success- formation of new Iraqi government

Success- regime change

Success- more free elections

Success- practically no violence in the Kurdish region

Success- 85% of eligible voters cast votes in the most recent elections

Success- US and Iraqi forces re-take Sadr City

Success- invasion of Iraq prompts Libya to give up it's WMD

[supercar]

It's easier to say you support the war then let someone else go off and die over it

I'm not 'letting' someone else go and die. They volunteered to join the military.

[AROCES]

Yes but one has to wonder why the most pro war people arent itching to join the army. It's easier to say you support the war then let someone else go off and die over it. It's the American Way.

And one has to wonder why anti war are so against the use of force, for they are scared of a draft.

And it is easier to go against a war when it is not your butt engage in combat. It's the Liberal way.

Edited July 29, 2007 by AROCES

[AROCES]

You act like the USA hates genocide and slaughter and jumps to the defense of those targetted instantly. Look at the world around you. Up to 1.1 million dead in Rwanda because the US didnt want to get involved. How about Sierra Leone and Darfur? "Genocide" is just an excuse to stay there longer. Either A) Ae stay and fight the war indefinitely, costing more and more lives and billions and billions of dollars, or we leave, there is a short bloody civil war and we start to deal with the dictator who rises from the ashes. Neither option is good, but one is better than the other.

We can't do it all you know, you should at least be glad we got rid of one.

Edited July 29, 2007 by AROCES

[Bob26003]

Democrats have failed at two things the American people want.

1. Ending the War

2. Holding Bush and Cheney accountable for their crimes.

Edited July 29, 2007 by Bob26003

[Atheist God]

Success- invasion of Iraq- A nation which had nothing to do with the real enemy Al Qaeda

Success- destruction of Iraq's armed forces- Which all became Sunni militants and helped spawn a civil war.

Success- occupation of Iraq's capitol city- Which resulted in hatred toward the US and other nations in Iraq.

Success- occupation of all of Iraq- Resulted in groups like Al Qaeda showing up for hunting season

Success- removal of Iraq's government- Which lead to complete chaos and a mass exodus to nations such as Jordan.

Success- free elections- which resulted in puppet candidates to be elected.

Success- capture of Saddam Hussein- Changed nothing

Success- death of Uday and Qusay Hussein- Changed nothing

Success- death of Al-Zarqawi- Who was replaced by someone else

Success- capture of 50 out 55 on Iraq's 'Most Wanted' list- Who were all replaced by others.

Success- introduction of new Iraqi currency- Too bad there aren't really any jobs in Iraq for most people to earn such a currency.

Success- formation of the new Iraqi Army- Formed out of Shiite and Sunni Militias.

Success- Iraqi army operates independantly- killing innocent civilians and handing over warlords from opposing factions.

Success- more free elections- more puppet candidates

Success- formation of new Iraqi government- which failed

Success- regime change- People who are now taking 3 weeks off because it is too hot showing how serious they take the situation.

Success- more free elections- more puppet candidates

Success- practically no violence in the Kurdish region- There never was violance in the kurdish region and not as a result of Allied forces either.

Success- 85% of eligible voters cast votes in the most recent elections- Ahh yes 85% of the moderates who haven't been killed or who have yet to flee elseware.

Success- US and Iraqi forces re-take Sadr City- As soon as they leave fighting will start again.

Success- invasion of Iraq prompts Libya to give up it's WMD- The good ol do what we say or you're next strategy.

[Fluffybunny]

And one has to wonder why anti war are so against the use of force, for they are scared of a draft.

And it is easier to go against a war when it is not your butt engage in combat. It's the Liberal way.

That is rich coming from you. Based on what we have seen of you it is the conservitive way too...

Wrong again. We can fight another war at anytime we please. We can destroy any country we please,at anytime we please. Have you forgotten the United States has nuclear weapons.

A military person you are not. You cannot win a war without putting boots on the ground to secure an area and clean up the initial attack. That takes good old foot soldiers. The ones that we have stretched too thin going through multiple tours. That combined with the fact that not enough gung ho war supporters have decided to really support the war by enlisting, the number of soldiers we have is dwindling rapidly along with the material supplies needed to support said soldiers.

In your mind nukes may be an option, but that is only in your mind. Surprisingly enough there is a little thing that needs to be considered when using nukes on a country...it is probably something that you don't think much about or have not reflected on in your lifetime...do you know what that little thing is? THE REST OF THE FREAKIN WORLD. If you start flinging nukes at a country (let's say iran for fun), there are generally allies of that country that have nukes as well that may not like that their friends just got nuked. (Russia can be quirky like that) That leads to concerns of getting ourselves nuked. That may not be a concern for you as I doubt you would run out to enlist anytime soon anyway, but for the rest of the country it is something that we'd like to avoid. That whole mutually assured destruction can make for a sticky situation. So while armchair generals may rub their hands together and scream "NUKE 'EM!", they are generally the ones that are the minority in the discussion. Thankfully. As much fun as Civilization III may be, it really does not translate to the real world very well.

So yes, we do need foot soldiers, that is just how wars work, and that is why it is so disconcerting to see what has happened to our soldiers numbers over the last 5 years. We have put ourselves in a position where we have very little support in the world because of the mistakes made in the last several years in iraq and that will hurt us desperately if we get drawn into another battle that we do not have the option to avoid.

At this point I am sure you cut and paste my reply to you and respond with something insightful or witty akin to "Nuh-uh..." or Nope. Maybe you cut and paste something from a blog off of fox news or the voting record of democrats in support of the iraq war, but I really don't care what logic you use; you are not the reason I post replies here, you wouldn't give it consideration and based on the record of your responses you give little more than a knee-jerk reaction response with a lot of (CTRL-C) and (CTRL-P) going on. I respond to your post because I think that there are others that are at least open to the idea that there is more than one side to a story and that the world is not black and white.

Military service is not required to have an opinion about the Iraq war.

No it isn't, but it sure is funny to see how brave those that have never served tend to be in these discussions.

Wrong again. You are the one who brought up the subject of dead soldiers to this topic. If this is a debate about the Democrats failed strategy then why did you bring up deaths of soldiers:

I take it you didn't do to well on the SAT's. Let me break it down for you. I'll be as brief as I can.

1. Original post about democrats"failed" attempt to get out of iraq, in which you said that they(democrats) should "get on with their lives".

2. I responded to the "get on with their lives" comment with a response directly related to the iraq war and "getting on with their lives"; i.e. "Unlike the thousands of dead soldiers..." You see, thousands of American soldiers have died in the iraq war. They cannot get on with their lives as you so callously stated in the OP.

3. You then run in from left field and say "You're concerned about Americans dieing? 40,000 Americans die every year in traffic accidents. That is something to be outraged about. That is something Congress could do something about. In the past four years almost 4,000 soldiers have died in Iraq. During that same time 160,000 Americans have died in traffic accidents."

4. So now you want to pull in automobile accidents into a discussion about the "failed" strategy of the democrats. Has nothing to do with the democrats. Congress. the president, the war, the soldiers...anything to do with the discussion. It is not related at all, which is why I said to start another topic and we could discuss it there.

Is it that difficult?

a majority of citizens are looking for an exit strategy.

A majority of citizens think the assassination Of President Kennedy was a conspiracy. Doesn't mean it's true.

What the... we are not talking about the kennedy assasination. We are talking about the war in iraq, the "failed" strategy of the democrats, and the majority of Americans that want to get the soldiers out of iraq. That is a fact, the majority of citizens do want to get out of iraq, that is just the way it is. YOU may not feel that way, but a majority of the country does and that is the bottom line. What kennedy has to do with this is beyond me...

What about the genocide that will occur in Iraq if we leave too soon.

What are you going to do about that supercar? How are you going to support this war? I mean real support, not the magnetic yellow ribbon on the trunk lid kind of support. If you are so concerned about the iraqi civilians, what are you doing right now to step and and set an example as a supporter? I hope that it is not just the posts you create here; that is not support at all, in fact that has an opposite effect as even the most supportive war supporters on this forum distance themselves from your posts as they are so incredibly abrasive and ultimately turn folks that are on the fence over to the other side of the discussion.

I would love to know what you have or will do to REALLY support the war. You have made it clear that the military is not for you, but there are other options and I would love to know how it is that YOU are going to make a difference in the life of the iraqi civilians that you are so concerned with now.

Come on Supercar, step up; show the forum your dedication to this war, our soldiers, and the iraqi civilians that you care about. I know you have to be doing something good; you are so gungho, I cant imagine that you would throw out all of the material that you do and not be willing to go out and really commit to making a difference.

Please. Inform us.

[explorer]

Actually Fluffybunny, I think Supercar is far better at cutting and pasting his own months old posts and regurgitating them. I've lost count of how many times that Success, Success, Success post has appeared nor how many repostes have been delivered.

Even if the Dems had been able to get the recent legislation on withdrawal through the Senate, the President would surely have vetoed it, so it's hardly fair to talk of a failed Democratic strategy when they only partially hold the reigns.

[EmpressStarXVII]

Great post Ganja

[Atheist God]

Great post Ganja

Thanks EmpressStar!

[AROCES]

Democrats have failed at two things the American people want.

1. Ending the War

2. Holding Bush and Cheney accountable for their crimes.

Nope, Democrats had success with those issues. They got the house back.

Now, stop crying about it foryou seeing reality now. It was all election promises.

[questionmark]

Nope, Democrats had success with those issues. They got the house back.

Now, stop crying about it foryou seeing reality now. It was all election promises.

Wouldn't bet a dollar on that, a sure way to win the next elections is to show that Bush has been doing something wrong and that the GOP supported him. This one ain't over.

[Bob26003]

Aroces

[AROCES]

Wouldn't bet a dollar on that, a sure way to win the next elections is to show that Bush has been doing something wrong and that the GOP supported him. This one ain't over.

I think that is pretty much the norm, right? I mean what do you think the Dem will do to any Rep President and vise versa, praise them?

[questionmark]

I think that is pretty much the norm, right? I mean what do you think the Dem will do to any Rep President and vise versa, praise them?

That helps sometimes to win, believe it or not. Read a little Machiavelli

[Atheist God]

I think that is pretty much the norm, right? I mean what do you think the Dem will do to any Rep President and vise versa, praise them?

Funny I thought opposing political factions are supposed to use their differences to work together for the betterment of society.

[Fluffybunny]

Funny I thought opposing political factions are supposed to use their differences to work together for the betterment of society.

That ended a long time ago. The main goal of politicians todays is their own private ambitions as well as the sustained power of their party.

[Reincarnated]

Funny I thought opposing political factions are supposed to use their differences to work together for the betterment of society.

Nope. It's called terrorism now.

[Atheist God]

That ended a long time ago. The main goal of politicians todays is their own private ambitions as well as the sustained power of their party.

As a result of over ambitious and greedy politicians the US has become what I always thought were the bad guys. That being said it's not to late to change this though people just need to stop playing partisan politics and work together for the people as opposed for themselves. The US gov has not yet reached the point where i would completely label it fascist it is more of a proto-fascist state which means it's well on it's way. People like Aroces and Supercar clearly promote a fascist state but most Americans I talk to do not. Perhaps it is time for another revolution to repair the damage done to the once great United States and restor it's integrity as the good guys.

[Mr Honeybadger]

The dems could try and end the war now if they wanted to by cutting off funding. But they haven't. So the question is why. I believe there are two possible reasons.

1) They hope the war drags on, blame the republicans, and hope to use it for a political advantage to gain the presidency.

2) They are truly worried about what might happen in Iraq if the troops are pulled out now.

But many dems ( Hillary included ), gave Bush the authority to start this war. So their hands are in this mess too.

[AROCES]

Funny I thought opposing political factions are supposed to use their differences to work together for the betterment of society.

Nope, not quite. Two opposing ideas, two opposing ideology. Each has their own agenda, each has it own good and bad idea. It's a mattter of who has more better ideas and policies, and proven to work better.

[Stalker]

Nope, not quite. Two opposing ideas, two opposing ideology. Each has their own agenda, each has it own good and bad idea. It's a mattter of who has more better ideas and policies, and proven to work better.

Issue being, "proof" can be rather subjective when it comes to politics....

[AROCES]

Issue being, "proof" can be rather subjective when it comes to politics....

Voters have that say, I mean no matter what one say it does not work. Voters can see what works and what doesn't.

Take the economy now, no matter how bad the economy the Democrats is saying it is. When unemployment is at 4.5%, then less people will believe the bad economy propaganda.

[Atheist God]

Nope, not quite. Two opposing ideas, two opposing ideology. Each has their own agenda, each has it own good and bad idea. It's a mattter of who has more better ideas and policies, and proven to work better.

They both have the same policies it just comes in different packaging....

Well from what i've seen both parties in the US have crap policies that aren't clearly working. Politics should not be about agendas it should be about working together for the people not which party is better.

I stand by my original post that you responded to because that is what a democracy is supposed to be not bickering and fighting over which party is better.