20 Remarkable simarlarities - Horus and Jesus

[karl 12]

20 remarkable simarlarities between Horus and Jesus.

An amazing coincedence or something else?

http://atheistempire.wordpress.com/2007/01...-cult-of-horus/

(Apparently other historical 'messianic figures also share these attributes-including Mithras)

Cheers Karl

Edited August 11, 2007 by karl 12

[karl 12]

Mithras and Jesus attributes:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen048.html

http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html

[GIDEON MAGE]

I will warn you that the xians already have a bogus answer or two for you.

#1-satan somehow planted these stories to fool us ahead of ttime.

#2-the stories are not that close (pure b.s., since they are almost identical).

#3-this is all based on kersey graves, who makes too many assumptions, disproven by modern archaeology (on xian apologetic websites)

my take: it's pretty obvious to anyone intelligent, that the n.t. is based on the life of yeshua ben pantera, who lived about 100 years earlier than the fictional Jesus of nazareth. the authors of the n.t., who had little or no understanding of judiasm, the hebrew scriptures, jewish customs, or Hebrew, wrote whatever they thought would help force conversion of pagans to the new imperial religion. the virgin birth, and other pagan elements, are simply non=jewish. the ensuing 1700 years of terror inflicted on the world by xians prove that the little stories didn't work. what is even more amazing is that the xian church follows the writings pf "paul", and the exact polar opposite of the teachings of "jesus" in the n.t. "jesus" taught about individual responsibility, worshipping the father as the one god, reincarnation, strict obedience and loving one another. sadly, the church violates all these and many more.

[+Link of Hyrule]

#3-this is all based on kersey graves, who makes too many assumptions, disproven by modern archaeology (on xian apologetic websites)

Wow, I was going to say exactly that, except that the writer who disagreed with him is an atheist not a Christian apologist. He is the one-time editor-in-chief of Infidels.org, and a regular contributor still to that site - a site, btw, that is dedicated to dismissing God-beliefs in their entirety......

The following is taken from this SOURCE

The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors: Or Christianity Before Christ is unreliable, but no comprehensive critique exists. Most scholars immediately recognize many of his findings as unsupported and dismiss Graves as useless.

The author (did I mention he was Atheist?) then goes on to list the common problems with Graves' research, and discusses them further in depth. He writes:

In general, there are ten kinds of problems that crop up in Graves' work here and there:

• * Graves often does not distinguish his opinions and theories from what his sources and evidence actually state.

* Graves often omits important sources and evidence.

* Graves often mistreats in a biased or anachronistic way the sources he does use.

* Graves occasionally relies on suspect sources.

* Graves does little or no source analysis or formal textual criticism.

* Graves' work is totally uninformed by modern social history (a field that did not begin to be formally pursued until after World War II, i.e., after Graves died).

* Graves' conclusions and theories often far exceed what the evidence justifies, and he treats both speculations and sound theories as of equal value.

* Graves often ignores important questions of chronology and the actual order of plausible historical influence, and completely disregards the methodological problems this creates.

* Graves' work lacks all humility, which is unconscionable given the great uncertainties that surround the sketchy material he had to work with.

* Graves' scholarship is obsolete, having been vastly improved upon by new methods, materials, discoveries, and textual criticism in the century since he worked. In fact, almost every historical work written before 1950 is regarded as outdated and untrustworthy by historians today.

Edited August 11, 2007 by Paranoid Android

[karl 12]

Thanks for the replies-interesting stuff.

I thiought Graves was involved with the corellations about Attis,Krishna and Dionysus (thats why I purposefully didn't mention them) whereas the Horus simarlarities where widely regarded as factual.

I've no agenda and it would be nice to get to the bottom of it .

Cheers Karl

[+Link of Hyrule]

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

Looking closer at the similarities then:

1. Horus born of a virgin. <> Jesus born of a virgin. Wrong. Horus was born by his mother Isis, who had sexual intercourse with Osiris in order to achieve this. I think this misrepresentation stems from the fact that when Osiris was killed and chopped up into little pieces, they never found his penis, so Isis fashioned a new penis for him and then had sex with him. That is not a virgin, that is a story of a God who had been given his appendage back.

2. The foster father of Horus was Seb or Seph. <> Jesus was fostered by Joseph. Wrong. The foster father of Horus was the Earth-God, not a simple "earthly father". Looks like someone's trying to play semantics to try and make them sound the same. Furthermore, I'm not sure it is linguistically accurate to say that the English word for "seph" and "joseph" are what the original texts read.

4. Horus birth accompanied by three solar deities [star gazers] who followed by the morning star of Sirius bearing gifts. <> Jesus birth accompanied by three wise men [Zoroastrian star gazers] who followed by a star “in the east” bearing gifts. Wrong. While modern tradition holds that there were three wise men who heralded Jesus' birth, there is no mention of how many there were. The gospel account only mentions how many gifts were given by the wise men. Horus on the other hand had their solar-deities based on the three stars of Orion's belt.

9. Horus had 12 followers. <> Jesus had 12 disciples. Under review, pending research. I've just completed significant time googling for these 12 disciples of Horus. I have yet to find a single mention about these from any site. The majority of google hits were simply either non-Christians claiming that they exist, or Chrisitans asking for proof. Nowhere did I see the reference itself.

10. Horus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water. <> Jesus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water. Irrelevant, and possibly wrong. Many deities from areas that had no possible connection to Egypt or Israel are seen performing very similar miracles. For the record, I did read during my quick research that Horus was thrown into water, but never found a place where he walked on water - the sites were all similar to the one listed above.

11. Horus raised someone from the grave [his father Osiris] <> Jesus raised Lazarus [notice the name similarity] from the grave. Lazarus is short for Elasarus - the “us” on the end is romanized. Elasarus was derived from “El-Asar” which was the name given to Osiris. Under review, pending investigation. As above, I have found no textual reference to this event - admittedly though, google doesn't have answers to everything. If anyone has the textual reference to this from Egyptian society, feel free to let me know.

12. Horus was buried and resurrected in the city of Anu.

13. Horus was killed by crucifixtion. <> Jesus was crucified. Wrong and wrong. There is no indication of Horus ever dying, until later versions of this God have him merged with the sun-God, at which time he repeatedly dies and resurrects and dies and resurrects, as does the sun. No mention of his physical death is ever made in Egyptian history. (statements 14-16 also address similar issues).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All in all, I have found many things that have been flat-out wrong, and many unfounded comments. Now, let's see some differences between Horus and Jesus:

* Horus was associated with the Falcon. Jesus was never associated with this bird, and probably no bird at all, from memory.

* Horus continually fights his brother Seth, who is also another God. Jesus never fought with his brother/s (that we know of), and his brothers were human - only Jesus was divine.

* Horus has come to be represented by an eye. Jesus has come to be represented by a cross.

* Horus' father, Osiris, was chopped into 14 pieces and buried across the land. Jesus' Father, YHWH, has no physical form, and resides in the heavenly realms untouched by such dismemberment.

* Horus' mother had a continuing physical relationship with the father. Jesus' mother had only the spirit of God.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm sure with only a little more thought I can come up with a dozen more differences, but I think I have made my point.........

Edited August 11, 2007 by Paranoid Android

[Beckys_Mom]

20 remarkable simarlarities between Horus and Jesus.

An amazing coincedence or something else?

http://atheistempire.wordpress.com/2007/01...-cult-of-horus/

(Apparently other historical 'messianic figures also share these attributes-including Mithras)

Cheers Karl

Ohh bravo...an atheist web page.........hmmmmm couldnt you find it on a NON baised web page???

Here's the thing..ive seen these lists over and over again...and seen them on non atheist websites...

[Beckys_Mom]

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

Looking closer at the similarities then:

1. Horus born of a virgin. <> Jesus born of a virgin. Wrong. Horus was born by his mother Isis, who had sexual intercourse with Osiris in order to achieve this. I think this misrepresentation stems from the fact that when Osiris was killed and chopped up into little pieces, they never found his penis, so Isis fashioned a new penis for him and then had sex with him. That is not a virgin, that is a story of a God who had been given his appendage back.

2. The foster father of Horus was Seb or Seph. <> Jesus was fostered by Joseph. Wrong. The foster father of Horus was the Earth-God, not a simple "earthly father". Looks like someone's trying to play semantics to try and make them sound the same. Furthermore, I'm not sure it is linguistically accurate to say that the English word for "seph" and "joseph" are what the original texts read.

4. Horus birth accompanied by three solar deities [star gazers] who followed by the morning star of Sirius bearing gifts. <> Jesus birth accompanied by three wise men [Zoroastrian star gazers] who followed by a star “in the east” bearing gifts. Wrong. While modern tradition holds that there were three wise men who heralded Jesus' birth, there is no mention of how many there were. The gospel account only mentions how many gifts were given by the wise men. Horus on the other hand had their solar-deities based on the three stars of Orion's belt.

9. Horus had 12 followers. <> Jesus had 12 disciples. Under review, pending research. I've just completed significant time googling for these 12 disciples of Horus. I have yet to find a single mention about these from any site. The majority of google hits were simply either non-Christians claiming that they exist, or Chrisitans asking for proof. Nowhere did I see the reference itself.

10. Horus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water. <> Jesus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water. Irrelevant, and possibly wrong. Many deities from areas that had no possible connection to Egypt or Israel are seen performing very similar miracles. For the record, I did read during my quick research that Horus was thrown into water, but never found a place where he walked on water - the sites were all similar to the one listed above.

11. Horus raised someone from the grave [his father Osiris] <> Jesus raised Lazarus [notice the name similarity] from the grave. Lazarus is short for Elasarus - the “us” on the end is romanized. Elasarus was derived from “El-Asar” which was the name given to Osiris. Under review, pending investigation. As above, I have found no textual reference to this event - admittedly though, google doesn't have answers to everything. If anyone has the textual reference to this from Egyptian society, feel free to let me know.

12. Horus was buried and resurrected in the city of Anu.

13. Horus was killed by crucifixtion. <> Jesus was crucified. Wrong and wrong. There is no indication of Horus ever dying, until later versions of this God have him merged with the sun-God, at which time he repeatedly dies and resurrects and dies and resurrects, as does the sun. No mention of his physical death is ever made in Egyptian history. (statements 14-16 also address similar issues).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All in all, I have found many things that have been flat-out wrong, and many unfounded comments. Now, let's see some differences between Horus and Jesus:

* Horus was associated with the Falcon. Jesus was never associated with this bird, and probably no bird at all, from memory.

* Horus continually fights his brother Seth, who is also another God. Jesus never fought with his brother/s (that we know of), and his brothers were human - only Jesus was divine.

* Horus has come to be represented by an eye. Jesus has come to be represented by a cross.

* Horus' father, Osiris, was chopped into 14 pieces and buried across the land. Jesus' Father, YHWH, has no physical form, and resides in the heavenly realms untouched by such dismemberment.

* Horus' mother had a continuing physical relationship with the father. Jesus' mother had only the spirit of God.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm sure with only a little more thought I can come up with a dozen more differences, but I think I have made my point.........

PA you have said all of the things listed were WRONG................please show the source from were you got the info that they are WRONG..and not a christian source ...thanks

[GIDEON MAGE]

I mentioned Graves on purpose. If you study the "mythologies" involved, for yourself, you will see that there is little difference between them and the fictionalized biographies of Jesus ben Pantera, known as the n.t. the very first time I read the n.t., when I was 16, I saw an immediate match with heracles.

there is very, very little difference between the two. If you understand the symbology of the story, and realize it was never intended as literal truth, you can go a long way.

[GreyWeather]

PA, before Isis had Horus and also during, the religion took a twist and chose that she was now a virgin.

Whatever we make of the original myth…Isis seems to have been originally a virgin (or, perhaps, sexless) goddess, and in the later period of Egyptian religion she was again considered a virgin goddess, demanding very strict abstinence from her devotees. It is at this period, apparently, that the birthday of Horus was annually celebrated, about December 25th, in the temples.

Source

[Lt_Ripley]

this was interesting to watch

Origins of Religious Belief

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGbJpGlwjyU

10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer

Proving that the Bible is repulsive

Penn & Teller; The Bible is Bullsh*t ( informative AND entertaining )

[meryt-tetisheri]

There are NO similarities between Jesus & Horus. These cited sources provide wrong, erroneous information which not only contradicts data recorded on primary sources such as ancient temples, papyri etc, but also go against the grain of Egyptian culture & religion. These concepts & alleged practices, are totally foreign & are imposed in a 'cut & paste' fashion to fit a particular ideology. Atheists on this forum have persistently claimed that they are the "free thinkers" whose opinions rest on 'scientific critical thinking', yet these bogus sites are repeatedly used as reference instead of Egyptology sites! When dealing with history there are no "biased-Christian " sites vs 'unbiased atheist' ones. At this point both are biased. Sorry but here it is only a case of science vs pseudo science . One cannot discuss quantum fluctuation in physics for example by using an alchemy site as reference. Similarly, one cannot discuss Horus & ancient beliefs & practices then use 'the atheist empire' as reference. Here are some egyptology sites if anyone is interested :

http://www.egypt.cd2.com/

www.kemet.org

http://oi.uchicago.edu

http://www.yale.edu

http://www.newton.cam.ac.uk/egypt/

http://www.egyptologyonline.com

This theme came up before on another thread, & this is the argument against Horus/12 disciples/ crucifixion etc ( it is 2 am now, so I will just copy a previous reply) first an intro to Horus from the Theban Mapping Project site:Horus played several roles: he was falcon god of the sky, protector of the king, and symbol of kingship, especially associated with Hierakonpolis and Edfu. One of the oldest and most important gods of the Egyptian pantheon, he was the son of Isis and Osiris, and husband of Hathor. His sons were Imsety, Hapy, Duamutef and Qebehsenuef, together protectors of mummified human viscera. He had many forms: Harpocrates, Horsiese, Horakhty, Haroeris, Harendotes, Horbehdet. He sometimes was associated with the god Min.{ Min is the god of fertility}

"Seth ( Seb??) was not the foster father of Horus, he was his enemy, the murderer of his father & the usurper of the throne.Horus had no 'foster' fathers.

The mother of Horus was already the wife of Osiris before he was killed, she was no virgin and her name was Isis not meri. There were neither annunciations nor angels. Concept of angels is totally foreign to Egyptian culture.

Sheep were ritually unclean , shepherds would definitely not attend the birth of a god. Think pork for jews & muslims. A terrible curse & punishment in ancient Egypt was to bury someone in sheepskin. Isis was the powerful goddess of magic & had no need to hide . Actually she was only harmed when she showed some weakness vis a vis Seth & Horus injured her in anger.

Baptism? Egypt has only one river & it is not Eridanus! He could not have been baptized outside Egypt because for the Egyptians their country was 'heaven on earth', the word 'egyptian' was synonymous for 'human'.

Temptation on a mountain, 12 disciples, confused for the 4 sons of Horus Transfiguration?! Another superimposed concept, foreign . Lazarus is again a case of concepts tortured in an attempt to make them fit a desired hypothesis, Isis raised Osiris, Mary did not raise Lazarus . No sermons on the plain, sorry! Crucifixion was absolutely unknown in Egypt, there weren't even enough trees had they known about it wink2.gif Horus never died. Every king who ascended to the throne of Egypt was the personification of Horus : the living Horus. This was the foundation myth for the institution of kingship on which the whole political organization of the country rested. No thieves also.

No Hell in Egyptian religion. Wrongdoers' hearts which were heavier than the feather of Maat were eaten by a mythological beast, thus annihilating the sinner, second & final death .

Horus ruled technically until the death of Cleopatra, not a mere 1000 years.

The account you came across used is simply fallacious. There are pure fabrications without any historical source of any sort neither papyri, nor reliefs, anything, but the result is a story that contradicts some of the basic firm tenets of ancient egyptian beliefs & culture."

[+Link of Hyrule]

PA you have said all of the things listed were WRONG................please show the source from were you got the info that they are WRONG..and not a christian source ...thanks

I didn't get this information from only one site, and it was through large quantities of reading many sites. I didn't quote any site. However, here's a list of some of the sites I used for my in formation. I know I missed a couple, but hey, that's how things go:

Source 1

Source 2

Source 3

Source 4

Source 5

Source 6

Source 7

*Source 4 is a Christian site.

*Source 5 is non-Chrisitan site, but the author is Christian

*all other sources are non-Christian

Add to this that pretty much every google search was inundated with the theories from both sides but no actual factual source, and I came to the conclusions that they were wrong. If someone wants to show the source information from Egyptology, then be my guest. I couldn't find it (and believe me, I tried) but someone else might have better luck.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

5 more differences between Horus and Jesus:

* Horus' mother was decapitated (non-fatally, of course). Jesus' mother was alive through all of his life.

* Horus' mother had a twin sister, who was also a goddess. No mention is made of Mary's siblings, but they were human.

* Horus engaged in homosexual acts with his brother. Jesus did not, as far as we know.

* Horus is often depicted hunting crocodiles and serpents. Jesus is a carpenter's son, with no prowess in hunting.

* Horus had many wives. Jesus at most would have had only one, but the gospels show none.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's ten differences now. How many more should I give?

[+Link of Hyrule]

PA, before Isis had Horus and also during, the religion took a twist and chose that she was now a virgin.

Source

If you're willing to accept Achyra S. as sources for your information, you you should also be willing to accept THIS SITE. Edited August 12, 2007 by Paranoid Android

[GIDEON MAGE]

If you're willing to accept Achyra S. as sources for your information, you you should also be willing to accept THIS SITE.

why not just admit to the obvious? "Jesus of Nazareth", although based on the historical Jesus ben Pantera, is an Archetype. The Savior figure, in myriad forms, has been with mankind for eons. Even the story of Quetzlcoatl, told for centuries before the Xians came and ruthlessly slaughtered the native americans in the name of Jesus, is almost indistinguishable from the new testament! All the elements are there, including the virgin birth. The similiarities are so marked, that the xians used the idea to help conquer and crush the aztecs.

http://www.atheistfellowship.com/aa3/03.html

the mormons actually believe that the Quetzlcoatl legends are from when Jesus visited the new world!

http://www.nephiproject.com/white_god_quetzalcoatl.htm

There are Hero archetypes in almost every civilization. The little differences in detail are what is meaningless.

[karl 12]

this was interesting to watch

Origins of Religious Belief

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGbJpGlwjyU

10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer

Proving that the Bible is repulsive

Penn & Teller; The Bible is Bullsh*t ( informative AND entertaining )

Thank you very much for these.