You'll believe what i tell you so...

[GreyWeather]

apparently you missed her other post

Lol, I edited it at the same time you posted this.

[Genocyde]

lol

[TheKnight]

Paul never taught against the law. That statement alone shows that you are operating under your own understanding. Paul wrote in Galations 3:19-29 that "...God is one." He had a visitation from Jesus Himslef, but still Paul acknowledged the Father as separate yet one. Paul also wrote in Romans 7:12 "So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, and just and good." and also "For I delight in the law of God in my inmost self" Romans 7:22.

I don't see that as teaching "against the law".

It is not offensive to me to hear you say Jesus is not the Messiah. I simply disagree. Lastly, I think that it would take a whole lot of knowledge to be able to say one way or the other that Christians know more about the scriptures than the Jews or vice-versa. I am not versed enough in Jewish teaching to make the assertion either way. Perhaps try not to hold opinions based on limited understanding.

Paul did teach against the Law. He spoke in both Galatians 3 and 5 that to attempt to be justified in the law is to bring a curse upon yourself and to have fallen away from the grace of Christ. Paul spoke that "Everything is permissible". You say you are not versed in Jewish teaching, but you also claim to know enough about the Jews and their Scriptures to be able to determine who their Messiah is? We must not forget, the Messiahship is entirely a Jewish concept. Jesus fits into a more paganistic savior type view whereas the real Messiah will be a Prophet to God and bring about God's Kingdom on Earth. If you don't understand the background for Jesus's messiahship, how can you claim he is the Messiah?

[cloud0729]

I hope that you understand that Abraham did NOT kill Isaac. He was "saved" from that act by God. Nowhere in scripture is it written that human sacrifice was neccessary to please God, and the only sacrifice of any man that God required was Jesus. It is commonly believed that God did not intend for Abraham to kill Isaac, instead it was a "trial by fire" if you will. Isaac was a miracle born to a post-menoposal woman and God had proved Himself to Abraham with Isaac. Abraham then proved his faith by willingly (but not happily) offering Isaac back. It is not the only time this type of thing happened. In the case of Samuel, he was given to the temple priest Eli at the age of three by his mother because she had promised God that if He granted her a child she would give him back.

Ever read the story about Jephthah offering his daughter as a burnt offering to God, and he accepted it?

[moonlit12]

Ever read the story about Jephthah offering his daughter as a burnt offering to God, and he accepted it?

He did that of his own accord because of a flippant promise he made to sacrifice the first thing he saw when he came home. He thought it would be a sheep or a goat, but it was his daughter. He chose to keep his promise by sacrificing her, not because God required it, but because of his own honor.

[moonlit12]

Paul did teach against the Law. He spoke in both Galatians 3 and 5 that to attempt to be justified in the law is to bring a curse upon yourself and to have fallen away from the grace of Christ. Paul spoke that "Everything is permissible". You say you are not versed in Jewish teaching, but you also claim to know enough about the Jews and their Scriptures to be able to determine who their Messiah is? We must not forget, the Messiahship is entirely a Jewish concept. Jesus fits into a more paganistic savior type view whereas the real Messiah will be a Prophet to God and bring about God's Kingdom on Earth. If you don't understand the background for Jesus's messiahship, how can you claim he is the Messiah?

Paul's writing about the law was correct in that he made the statement that no one can be perfect, therefore we are all doomed if we attempt to please God just by following all the laws. Paul in no way said that the law was to be ignored, instead he said that the desire to obey the law together with faith brings eternal salvation. Abraham for one displayed his faith more abundantly than his goodness or obedience to the law (ie. Sarai and the King of Egypt). But in the NT it is written that Abraham was justified by his faith (and he was one of those OT folks who met God in the flesh, Jesus perhaps?)

But wait, do you still believe in eternal salvation? Just a question.

Now, about your other comments. I did not say I was ignorant of Jewish and chrisitan teachings entirely. I said that I do not presume to know enough about them both to compare the two en totale the way you imply that you have. I have studied the scriptures related to the Messiah in both the OT and NT, and I have had plenty of opportunity to learn things about the faiths of both at different times in my life. In your Jesus - Messiah thread, I gave you sufficient evidence for my beliefs and as this thread is on another topic entirely, I will not repeat myself.

I have tried to stay on topic in several of my previous posts and I will once again try... do you find a reason to look at this vid in any other way than for the humor value? I feel that if we see ourselves in other people, we can better understand how others see us, and I don't want my son posting me this way someday.

[TheKnight]

do you find a reason to look at this vid in any other way than for the humor value? I feel that if we see ourselves in other people, we can better understand how others see us, and I don't want my son posting me this way someday.

That is good. If you don't want your children posting you this way than don't behave that way. BTW, I don't think the son was the one who made the film. But I think the mother deserved the negative comments that she got. To try and use materialism to draw her son back to her faith that is already deteriorating. I mean, she said "We're going to church every week." So we are to assume that they didn't go every week before that. She is a hypocrite in that she wants her son to believe in her god when she herself doesn't have enough devotion to go every week. I think parents who behave in this manner only reinforce their children's desire to leave the beliefs they were raised in because its showing blatant hypocrisy. Suppose the son said he did believe? Than what? He gets present? He gets to go to church sparingly? He gets to resume his heathen life? IMO the mother was saying "You can be a heathen as long as you don't burst my bubble of the perfect Catholic family." She showed a total lack of care for his spiritual nourishment up until his departure from the faith. I think it's terribly foolish of her. It's like neglecting a plant, and leaving it be until you see it dead in the corner. Then you want to water it as if by some vain hope the plant will live again. The Bible tells us that if we train up a child in the way he should go he will not depart from that way. She raised him to be as he became and she was upset with the results. I have noticed that the parents who overact the most are usually the parents who have realized what a terrible failure at parenting they were.

[moonlit12]

That is good. If you don't want your children posting you this way than don't behave that way. BTW, I don't think the son was the one who made the film. But I think the mother deserved the negative comments that she got. To try and use materialism to draw her son back to her faith that is already deteriorating. I mean, she said "We're going to church every week." So we are to assume that they didn't go every week before that. She is a hypocrite in that she wants her son to believe in her god when she herself doesn't have enough devotion to go every week. I think parents who behave in this manner only reinforce their children's desire to leave the beliefs they were raised in because its showing blatant hypocrisy. Suppose the son said he did believe? Than what? He gets present? He gets to go to church sparingly? He gets to resume his heathen life? IMO the mother was saying "You can be a heathen as long as you don't burst my bubble of the perfect Catholic family." She showed a total lack of care for his spiritual nourishment up until his departure from the faith. I think it's terribly foolish of her. It's like neglecting a plant, and leaving it be until you see it dead in the corner. Then you want to water it as if by some vain hope the plant will live again. The Bible tells us that if we train up a child in the way he should go he will not depart from that way. She raised him to be as he became and she was upset with the results. I have noticed that the parents who overact the most are usually the parents who have realized what a terrible failure at parenting they were.

I would hesitate to judge her parenting or her faith from this one vid. I was more moved by the anger displayed. Until you are a parent, you cannot understand the inherit guilt and fear that comes with it. We all try, but we all fail as parents to live up to our own expectations. I am also curious as to why the son chose to tell his folks that he no longer believed in God, and also have this declaration get "caught on tape"... I smell a set up.

[TheKnight]

I would hesitate to judge her parenting or her faith from this one vid. I was more moved by the anger displayed. Until you are a parent, you cannot understand the inherit guilt and fear that comes with it. We all try, but we all fail as parents to live up to our own expectations. I am also curious as to why the son chose to tell his folks that he no longer believed in God, and also have this declaration get "caught on tape"... I smell a set up.

TBH I think it was a fake based on the nature of the language used. However, I may be wrong. But why wouldn't he tell his parents that he no longer believes? I plan to tell my parents that I no longer believe in Christ...someday (when I no longer rely on them for shelter and food)...

[Genocyde]

I plan to tell my parents that I no longer believe in Christ...someday (when I no longer rely on them for shelter and food)...

:lol: good plan

[TheKnight]

:lol: good plan

YEP!

[swtp]

Ok, Thats one sure fire way to make him hate the very faith you want your child to embrace! A lot of people go through times of questioning the world and different beliefs, IMO, thats a very healthy attitude! My mom was very loving and supportive when i began the road to adult thinking for myself part of my life! And i,m very greatfull to her for that, she told me and when the time came that my own daughter started questioning, growing and thinking for herself that as long as you seek the truth honestly and with all your heart and mind, you,ll find it! We often have to explore many paths, thoughts and ideas to get to the place where we belong!

If my mom would have ranted and railed about that stage of my life, it would have made me lock the door on all she had taught me and i,d have thrown away the key!

[Beckys_Mom]

For example: When God spoke to Moses He said "I Am that I Am"

So what, dont mean anything..Gloria Gaynor sang the hit song too...- I am what I am LOL

Lol, you don't understand. I accused Christians of bigotry and hyprocrisy even when I was a Christian. I have always seen the flaws in mainline Christianity. You can ask BM, I've ranted about it to her in PM.

eh? what PM's...what ranting...come again?

[TheKnight]

So what, dont mean anything..Gloria Gaynor sang the hit song too...- I am what I am LOL

eh? what PM's...what ranting...come again?

twas long ago...

[Beckys_Mom]

twas long ago...

I know LMAO I was pulling your leg

[Drego]

Hmm... without clicking on the link, is this the video where the boy tells his mom that he's an atheist?

[Beckys_Mom]

Hmm... without clicking on the link, is this the video where the boy tells his mom that he's an atheist?

nope...its were the boy tells his mom that he joined the starship enterprise as an en son and his mom wants him to come back to the borg

[sunburst]

i think parents over react to everything their teenager does. i think manily because that they are getting older and are getting their own ideals, and it may differ from the parent. and they freak out. it's always hard 4 some1 they c 2 grow up and make their own ideals and start heading down the path of their life. but i don't know, i'm only 14!!! i told my mom once that i was thinking of cutting my hair to my chin, and she freaked out and asked me if i was becoming a butch. ugh, parents. :angry2:

[Lt_Ripley]

i think parents over react to everything their teenager does. i think manily because that they are getting older and are getting their own ideals, and it may differ from the parent. and they freak out. it's always hard 4 some1 they c 2 grow up and make their own ideals and start heading down the path of their life. but i don't know, i'm only 14!!! i told my mom once that i was thinking of cutting my hair to my chin, and she freaked out and asked me if i was becoming a butch. ugh, parents. :angry2:

she freaked over you thinking of wanting to cut your hair short ? becoming butch ? God help you if you are a lesbian cause the hair thing is a big tip off to how she thinks. you sound pretty smart for a 14 year old.

did you cut your hair ?

Edited August 20, 2007 by Lt_Ripley

[Lt_Ripley]

He did that of his own accord because of a flippant promise he made to sacrifice the first thing he saw when he came home. He thought it would be a sheep or a goat, but it was his daughter. He chose to keep his promise by sacrificing her, not because God required it, but because of his own honor.

actually ---

"Make vows to the LORD your God and fulfill them. (Psalm 76:11)

"If you make a vow to the LORD your God, do not be slow to pay it, for the LORD your God will certainly demand it of you and you will be guilty of sin. But if you refrain from making a vow, you will not be guilty. Whatever your lips utter you must be sure to do, because you made your vow freely to the LORD your God with your own mouth." (Deuteronomy 23:21-23)

"When you make a vow to God, do not delay in fulfilling it. He has no pleasure in fools; fulfill your vow. It is better not to vow than to make a vow and not fulfill it." (Ecclesiastes 5:4,5)

"It is a trap for a man to dedicate something rashly and only later to consider his vows." (Proverbs 20:25) this I think is what the stories main principle was about. Unfortunatly if you make a vow to God you have to keep it - according to the bible.

[sunburst]

she freaked over you thinking of wanting to cut your hair short ? becoming butch ? God help you if you are a lesbian cause the hair thing is a big tip off to how she thinks. you sound pretty smart for a 14 year old.

did you cut your hair ?

really? do i sound smart???? must be this site cause b4 i was dumb, lol. she let me cut it to my sholders. and i told her all the guys i liked. which i can't do cause she freaks out when i tell her the guys i like. but i am 100% straight! lol:P

[+Link of Hyrule]

Seriously. It would be cool. Like if you were bored on a day where you didn't have anything to do. You could just hop on over to youtube, and watch Atheist teens tell their Christian parents that they don't believe in God. It would be interesting to see the reactions of the parents.

You could also get the reaction of Atheist parents (or any other belief-system for that matter) from their child who has converted to some religion or other. When the old pastor at my church became a Christian (at 17), he was originally locked in his room by his Buddhist parents until his "brainwashing wore off". It never did......

All evidence that I have used against the NT has merely been swiped aside by Christians. A few have even gone so far as to say that "the Jews can't be trusted to get it right." Christians have no responses when speaking to a person who knows their Bible well enough to understand that Jesus isn't God. All they can do is rely on trickery and arguing about things not pertinent to the topic. I have not speculated it, but experienced it personally.

*boldened relevant section*

Interesting you would say this here, considering I did address many of your very points in your thread over on the other Spirituality board. I never did get a reply to that post, though

Edited August 20, 2007 by Paranoid Android

[+Link of Hyrule]

Mr. Moonlit I have a question if Jesus came down today to your bedroom one night and said take your son and kill him right here and now to prove your trust in god would you do it answer honestly.

I'm not moonlit, but I feel compelled to respond to this post. Going by your response later, you make it sound here that Moonlit would be in the same situation as Abraham. It is a gross misunderstanding of Genesis 22 that you would even consider using this as a modern example. Moonlit is not Abraham. Moonlit is not the Father of a great nation, nor has God ever promised him he will be the Father of a great nation. Moonlit's son was not a miraculous birth born to a barren woman. Moonlit has not had God tell him personally that the same son he wants sacrificed is going to be the Father of a great nation (how can a dead son be a progenetor of any nation?). Unless Moonlit can claim to be all of the above, how can anyone directly apply the story of Abraham to her situation?

[+Link of Hyrule]

I am also curious as to why the son chose to tell his folks that he no longer believed in God, and also have this declaration get "caught on tape"... I smell a set up.

That was my original thought. I'm at uni at the moment, so can't download the video to watch it (not with sound/speakers, anyway), but it certainly sounds a little suspect.

However, that doesn't take away from the fact that this kind of thing does happen. It is sad that people are so self-absorbed that they don't think of anyone but themselves and their own precious faith. While it is certainly the right of a parent to raise their child according to their religious belief, there's no point threatening violence or removal of toys/priveledges/presents if a child says they don't believe. What will it accomplish? Why not be LOVING, show Christ's love to them. I'm sure Jesus wouldn't throw a tantrum and threaten to withdraw presents. It is Strong Negative Reinforcement, and it doesn't work - psychology has proved that.

There's a better way......

~ Regards, PA

[TheKnight]

Interesting you would say this here, considering I did address many of your very points in your thread over on the other Spirituality board. I never did get a reply to that post, though

Oh I'm sorry, I must not have seen your post. I responded it to it just now. I think you'll find it interesting.