Catholic church really a sun cult + masons

[Opus Magnus]

I think it's ironic mostly, and a literal attempt to humor and tempt the power of heaven.  Because, for one, one of the main points in the book of Ezekiel, is when God shows Ezekiel how Israel has started to worship the sun because they say God is no longer active, or around, so they might as well worship the sun, which I think made Ezekiel cry.  However, I think it was more serious back then, when they did it.

Also, the Catholic church is really big on idolatry, like tons of idols in some churches.  With all the things in Revelation about being against idolatry, it's really ironic that they do it so bad.  It's not just like a few pictures around, but blatant displays of how they can idolatize Jesus and different saints and Jospeh and what not.  Also, I think some of these idols are depictions of Vishnu, and I've heard other things like that, which were big sins to the jews, but idk, there's strange similarities in the different religious scriptures.

Though, I think all the idolatry is like a sign of wormwood, because that's how it feels when there is so much carved wood in the church, it's either in Deuteronomy, or Numbers, where it's called out before battle that if anyone who has any wormwood or gall in them, should just turn around and not go to fight with the Hebrews against the giants on that day.

Also, there was a revolution in the early days of the church about the idolatry, called the Iconoclasm, where certain people with sense, knew there shouldn't be so much idolatry in the Church, and the other side who wanted the idolatry.  So, there were martyrs and people who died trying to protect the church from the idolatry, I guess on both side people died, but in the end the idolaters won, and so there is idolatry in the church today.

Also, there are parts mentioned in Hosea about a thing called the idol shepherd, and what that means.  Part of the prophecy about jesus before his coming to birth, and also, I think in Malichi it says that in the days to come men will tempt God and be saved, but not for those who swear a false oath.

[Wes4747]

On 7/19/2017 at 2:59 AM, back to earth said:

But Louie ; here is one for ya ;

If the catholic church is based on progression from St Peter , and the mass celebrates the Last Supper , and   Jesus said to keep doing  ' this '    ie.  

 

how did it end up like this ? 

 

 

with all what you mentioned, the outfits, the changing color schemes of robes, the ritual and ritual objects ,    etc  .

What rite or rites did all that come from ? 

 

Now there is an interesting investigation !  

The mushroom and the cross??

[Indiogene]

Christianity including Roman Catholicism is based on European and Middle eastern paganism, the concept of a mother earth goddess is incorporated in Christianity as the Virgin Mary, is solely from European not Jewish sources at all. Protestantism, esp. Evangelicals tried hard to rid off any "pagan" influences in Christianity. However, Protestantism originated from Roman Catholicism which itself is an offshoot of Judaism, a monotheist or Abrahamic religion - which includes Islam from Arabia.  

[Opus Magnus]

Well, there are other references to worshipping the feminine side in like, Greek and Roman paganism.

But, I think most of the stuff in the pictures is supposed to represent the Levitical priest system of Israel.  If you read in the first 5 books of the bible, the Torah, then it explains some of the thing, as with how to set up the altar.  Also, how Solomon builds his House of God.  The thing I like the most, find the most interesting, is how in Solomon's temple, one of the thing he puts in is golden pomegrantes that are attatched to chains.  I think this is symbolic of the tradgedy of Persephone and her imprisonment in Hades.  What some call the rape of Persephone.  Seeing how Solomon angered God by going after the Goddesses of his 700 wives and even more concubines, he has a fame of wisdom, and infamy in other things.

Though, it's adapted, that's how it's always gone.  In Exodus it describes building the ark, and the tabernacle, and it's resemblent of these pictures, even if paganism has some influence.

[GlitterRose]

Well, this sure is a necropost resurrected.

I get how people are relating son/sun (although that only works in English), but Catholics aren't allowed to be Masons. 

They've got Knights of Columbus for all the guys who wanna get away from their nagging wives.

Edited August 11, 2017 by ChaosRose

[NChSh]

All of this is mostly true. Nearly every major extant religion is at least partially synchetic. Judaism evolved from mostly Akkadian and Babylonian religion, reformulated (later) as a monotheistic religion, with a health overlay of Hebrew laws, customs, and folk stories, with a later admixture of Hellenistic thought. Christianity (all forms--not just Catholicism) was just a Hellenized Jewish reworking of the various mystery religions which were present in the Middle East and Mediterranean. Islam is just another, Arab, reworking of the same basic thought, with an overlay of Arabic laws, customs, and stories. Hinduism is a synthesis of a great deal of Mesolithic, Neolithic, and other Indian sources, mixed heavily with Iron Age Vedic religions, and a great deal of other later additions. Even most forms of Buddhism were later mixed with various folk traditions and religions. The majority of adherents have a literal interpretation of their religions, which always imparts a great deal of cognitive dissonance, and, of course, is utilized for control by those in power. The only real conspiracy is believing that there is some kind of "pure" religion behind any of this, which has somehow been corrupted, rather than collections of unsubstantiated beliefs that humans have been using for thousands of years in an attempt to make sense of a world we don't quite understand. 

[Opus Magnus]

I like living under the law, as much as I can, it makes me feel better.  But, one thing I've noticed is that there is a Mosaic law that says, when the Jews decide they want a King, and they will, that they are not to choose the King, but that God will Choose the King for them.

So, I have reflected, and thought God chose Jesus to be King, and at the last chapter of Revelation, Jesus says, "I am the bright and Morning Star, the root and offspring of David."

Well, I choose the Morning Star as my ruling planet because of this, and it's an interesting choice.  If you look through many pagan religions, the deity associated with the morning star have the betrayer and ressurection, and followers.  I'm sure you've heard of this, but it's the morning star deity in these relgions that have the Jesus reflection.  So, I think God, might have chosen a deity out of the pantheon that would be the King of the Jews, and of everyone else, and that's the morning star.  Also, King David has some things in common with Hercules, and there's other things like that.  I just find it interesting, because I don't like to deny these similarities, but Hercules kind of surfs through the heros  in the messianic line, bcause he is the hero of mankind and the Gods in mythology.  I don't think it's a sin, because God wants us to have knowledge, and he hates people who destroy knowledge. 

[Opus Magnus]

I like living under the law, as much as I can, it makes me feel better.  But, one thing I've noticed is that there is a Mosaic law that says, when the Jews decide they want a King, and they will, that they are not to choose the King, but that God will Choose the King for them.

So, I have reflected, and thought God chose Jesus to be King, and at the last chapter of Revelation, Jesus says, "I am the bright and Morning Star, the root and offspring of David."

Well, I choose the Morning Star as my ruling planet because of this, and it's an interesting choice.  If you look through many pagan religions, the deity associated with the morning star have the betrayer and resurrection, and followers.  I'm sure you've heard of this, but it's the morning star deity in these religions that have the Jesus reflection.  So, I think God, might have chosen a deity out of the pantheon that would be the King of the Jews, and of everyone else, and that's the morning star.  Also, King David has some things in common with Hercules, and there's other things like that.  I just find it interesting, because I don't like to deny these similarities, but Hercules kind of surfs through the heros  in the messianic line, bcause he is the hero of mankind and the Gods in mythology.  I don't think it's a sin, because God wants us to have knowledge, and he hates people who destroy knowledge. 

[WoIverine]

Time for some gasoline:

Putin sums up Pope Francis:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-07/vladimir-great-sums-pope-francis-fake

[Opus Magnus]

In Revelation there is a verse about one of the 7 churches, where the Angel of Jesus says that there will be some among you who hold the doctrine of Baalim, who cast a stumbling block before Israel to eat food sacrificed to idols and fornication, so therefore repent or I will come argue against you with the sword of my mouth.

Well, Baalim is mentioned other places in the bible, first in the Torah he is a man who the part in Revelation is about.  Also, in Chronicles 2, which I am currently reading, there is a mention of where on of the Kings wanted to restore the temple from the priests dedicating the temple to Baalim instead of God.  Baalim, apparently is the whole pantheon of Baal, but there are people named literally Baal, and Baalim.

I was thinking the idolatry in the Catholic church is like this.  many of the sins mentioned in Chronicles are things the Catholic church does.  Things that started wars.  But, they've been doing it for thousands of years, instead of just a generation like in Chronicles.  Things like giving the priesthood over to anything.  One thing that comes to mind is that in the Torah, the laws of the priests was that they could take wives, but there were certain laws, like the priests had to marry virgins or widows, and the high priest couldn't marry widows.  However, in the catholic church, the priests can't marry at all, which is an abomination to the laws of the priest, and God.

There are a lot of little tricks they play on the commandments of Jesus like this, not surprising Martin Luther wanted to get away.

revelation 2:14

12And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

13I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. 14But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. 15So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. 16Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. 17He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

[Ozymandias]

On 2017-7-24 at 6:28 PM, Opus Magnus said:

.... the Catholic church is really big on idolatry, like tons of idols in some churches.  With all the things in Revelation about being against idolatry, it's really ironic that they do it so bad.  It's not just like a few pictures around, but blatant displays of how they can idolatize Jesus and different saints and Jospeh and what not.  Also, I think some of these idols are depictions of Vishnu, and .....

You need to be disabused of the notion that Catholics worship idols. They don't. Their churches are full of pictures, statues and other carvings that are there for ornamental purposes or to focus the mind. A Catholic praying to a crucifix is not venerating or adoring the crucifix but is praying to the god it represents - Jesus. Catholics don't pray to statues, they pray to the saints the statues represent. To say that the Catholic church is idolatrous is wrong and shows an ignorance of the reality.

[GlitterRose]

1 minute ago, Ozymandias said:

You need to be disabused of the notion that Catholics worship idols. They don't. Their churches are full of pictures, statues and other carvings that are there for ornamental purposes or to focus the mind. A Catholic praying to a crucifix is not venerating or adoring the crucifix but is praying to the god it represents - Jesus. Catholics don't pray to statues, they pray to the saints the statues represent. To say that the Catholic church is idolatrous is wrong and shows an ignorance of the reality.

How many people are idolizing their religious texts?

[Opus Magnus]

21 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

You need to be disabused of the notion that Catholics worship idols. They don't. Their churches are full of pictures, statues and other carvings that are there for ornamental purposes or to focus the mind. A Catholic praying to a crucifix is not venerating or adoring the crucifix but is praying to the god it represents - Jesus. Catholics don't pray to statues, they pray to the saints the statues represent. To say that the Catholic church is idolatrous is wrong and shows an ignorance of the reality.

Yeah, well, I try not to have a problem with it anymore.  How I see it, is how Jesus said there was a field and the enemy came by night and planted tares throughout it.  So, then when the laborers asked if they should rip out all the tares, the master of the field said, no, wait until it is time for harvest and we'll separate the tares from the good harvest.  So, I see it, that it's not going to get any better, and if you want to go to church you're going to have to deal with the idolatry.

Albeit, they try to keep their idols based on the Bible, some aren't.  But, I guess, some catholic churches have way more idols than others.  But, according to the 10 commandments, and the rest of the bible, and revelation, it gets pretty against all forms of idols.  However, King Solomon did create images of lions and other things, and the ark had images of Cherubims by command of God to Moses.  I guess there are exceptions.

[Ozymandias]

15 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

Yeah, well, I try not to have a problem with it anymore.  How I see it, is how Jesus said there was a field and the enemy came by night and planted tares throughout it.  So, then when the laborers asked if they should rip out all the tares, the master of the field said, no, wait until it is time for harvest and we'll separate the tares from the good harvest.  So, I see it, that it's not going to get any better, and if you want to go to church you're going to have to deal with the idolatry.

Albeit, they try to keep their idols based on the Bible, some aren't.  But, I guess, some catholic churches have way more idols than others.  But, according to the 10 commandments, and the rest of the bible, and revelation, it gets pretty against all forms of idols.  However, King Solomon did create images of lions and other things, and the ark had images of Cherubims by command of God to Moses.  I guess there are exceptions.

It is not a question of your personal sensibilities about the Catholic church, it is a question of understanding the true nature of what you misrepresent as 'idolatry'. The Israelites were guilty of idolatry when Moses found them worshipping the Golden Calf instead of the their true god Yahweh. The idol itself was their god. This is not the case with Catholics. Their statues and pictures are not being worshipped as gods in themselves. Can you see the difference?

[Quaentum]

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2007 at 1:25 PM, louie said:

I supose this would be a conspircie theory as its hiding things from the public, if these things are true. i was talking to a older man the other day and he told me this theory, i havent checked it out yet but it is intresting enough that i thought you may like to hear it and tell me what you think.

the catholic church is a thinly veiled ancient sun cult dating back from the time of the egyptans.

the virgin birth of Jesus is a direct retelling of the Egyptan legend of Horus, only the names have been changed. look at the vestoments priests wear, emblazined with the coptic cross but before that symbol was the egyptan symbol ankh meaning life.

 

There are several Christ like figures that even include virgin births so the author just chery picked the one he wanted the Hebrew version to be modeled after

 

http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/

[Opus Magnus]

1 minute ago, Ozymandias said:

It is not a question of your personal sensibilities about the Catholic church, it is a question of understanding the true nature of what you misrepresent as 'idolatry'. The Israelites were guilty of idolatry when Moses found them worshipping the Golden Calf instead of the their true god Yahweh. The idol itself was their god. This is not the case with Catholics. Their statues and pictures are not being worshipped as gods in themselves. Can you see the difference?

Yeah, but it kind of skims the line.  There was a big deal about this throughout history called iconoclasm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconoclasm

It's been a pretty big deal before whether Catholics are worshiping idols, or not.

[Ozymandias]

18 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

Yeah, but it kind of skims the line.  There was a big deal about this throughout history called iconoclasm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconoclasm

It's been a pretty big deal before whether Catholics are worshiping idols, or not.

It has been a big deal in the past when the Catholic church was ministering to peasant communities with very few well educated people and using poorly trained priests. This was certainly true at the time of the Reformation when all kinds of relics of saints (teeth, bones, fragents of clothing, pieces of the true cross), real or fake, were abused improperly. But the church never taught that these things were substitutes for god or were to be worshipped in their own right. With widespread increases in literacy and improved general education throughout the 18th and 19th centuries peasant societies became less gullible and superstitious. Despite all that the Catholic church has never preached doctrines of idolatry despite what ardent Protestants might like to believe.

[jaylemurph]

9 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

It is not a question of your personal sensibilities about the Catholic church, it is a question of understanding the true nature of what you misrepresent as 'idolatry'. The Israelites were guilty of idolatry when Moses found them worshipping the Golden Calf instead of the their true god Yahweh. The idol itself was their god. This is not the case with Catholics. Their statues and pictures are not being worshipped as gods in themselves. Can you see the difference?

To believe in utter, utter ****e like the OP and OM are suggesting doesn't just suggest mere ignorance, but a sort of militant ignorance, an active refusal of fact, that is just not shakeable. It's why I've refused to post in this thread so far, even though my dissertation topic was in large part about the politics behind the development of the liturgy of the catholic church.

Suffice it to say, there are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of books, written in a continuum from pious catholics to agnostic and atheist scholars (like me) that trace the origin and development of catholic liturgy and tradition. That they have consulted none of them tells you just how much the OP and OM want to /learn/ something. They don't. They want to spread their own ridiculous ideas like viruses propagate.

--Jaylemurph

[Unusual Tournament]

On 8/22/2017 at 6:01 AM, Ozymandias said:

You need to be disabused of the notion that Catholics worship idols. They don't. Their churches are full of pictures, statues and other carvings that are there for ornamental purposes or to focus the mind. A Catholic praying to a crucifix is not venerating or adoring the crucifix but is praying to the god it represents - Jesus. Catholics don't pray to statues, they pray to the saints the statues represent. To say that the Catholic church is idolatrous is wrong and shows an ignorance of the reality.

i agree with you. no one regards the icons and symbols of the Catholic and various eastern rite church's as idols but physical manifestations of their faith. concerning icons, alot were painted by the devout and under much fasting and contemplation. the beauty and skill in creating these icons and symbols is therefore attributed to faith in god rather than an object from god. Unfortunately... sometimes it went too far as in the case of 6-7th century Byzantium where icons were scraped clean of their paint, ground up and drunk as medicine. Some icons even substituting for god parents during baptisms.