when you are objective

[northwest]

well that's not exactly what I had in mind, but nevermind.

I didn't imply you should reject the whole idea of god, just because you are surrounded by hypocrite hateful christians. They don't own the god.

[Buddharat]

well that's not exactly what I had in mind, but nevermind.

I didn't imply you should reject the whole idea of god, just because you are surrounded by hypocrite hateful christians. They don't own the god.

Haha, sorry Northwest. I didn't mean to have it come out like you said about rejecting god. That was just something I did after years of soul searching. I have no problem with people believing in God. :-) Sorry for the confusion.

[IamsSon]

how to test it?

whatever you discuss, try taking the opposite side for example.

That's what some debate clubs do, they chose sides of arguments out of sport or randomly, and then work to find evidence and logical arguments to support that side.

I don't think many people in this forum could do that , what do you think?

There are actually quite a few people who can and have debated the opposite side, very few can do it well. I think there are two reasons for this:

1. The people who post here hold very strongly to the things they know

2. There are people who can't even argue well for the side they actually "do" believe in

[airika]

There are actually quite a few people who can and have debated the opposite side, very few can do it well. I think there are two reasons for this:

1. The people who post here hold very strongly to the things they know

2. There are people who can't even argue well for the side they actually "do" believe in

ROFLMAO!.... You said it! I have to agree with you completely. I remember the thread where we all did the "role reversal" I thought it worked out wonderfully for awhile. Oscars were even awarded.

[kapsha]

Doesn't really matter if it teaches it or not, I'm sure it is debatable, but I wont get into this right now. What matters is that whatever it teaches, far too many christians hate/look down upon/harass, or whatever words you prefer, certain groups. Gay people, atheists, gothic, you name it... Christians are nice to each other, but when it comes to groups that seemingly oppose christianity, christians tend to take a defencive agressive stance, even if the before mentioned people don't show any hostility...

Are there so called "Christians" that act this way...absolutely. But don't lump them all in one category.

That's like saying all southerner's are rednecks.

I am nice to EVERYONE. Why? Not because I believe in God, but because that's the way I want to be treated. I have been treated a certain way before, and still am from time to time.

[Mr Walker]

Out side of a debate, or because you just wanted to annoy the heck out of an individual, why would you bother to argue against a hard earned, "belief." Given that beliefs should be a logical construct based on one's individual perception of the world, they are come to honestly, and often at considerable emotional cost/angst. Once held they should be defended with logic, consistency, and strength of opinion.

This does not mean that where contrary evidence raises questions, one should not examine one's beliefs carefully and modify them to fit new "facts". Yet a belief is not something which can be passed down from father to son or exchanged for another with no emotional cost, it is a world view constructed over time, in a logical fashion, into a strong and resilient centre of your being. With strong enough belief you can face anything and conquer, not only the world , but more importantly , your own fears and demons.

[Beckys_Mom]

ROFLMAO!.... You said it! I have to agree with you completely. I remember the thread where we all did the "role reversal" I thought it worked out wonderfully for awhile. Oscars were even awarded.

LMAO yea I rolled out the Oscars...for the few of us that did take on different roles did do a good job lol...defending the side of a christian is easy for me, just in the same way it is easy to defend the side of an atheist

My latest is in the China thread...BM V's the atheist

[Memnoch]

¨Now, Jesus says to love everyone. I can't see how he can love everyone but only except a certain group of people into heaven and give them salvation. That just seems too...evil to me.

You don't have to take the bible literaly to be a beleiver. Few Christian think that the world is 6000 years old by now. Let's never forget that the bible was writen by humans.

Some people think that homosexuality is'nt natural (that it's a learned behavior) so they consider that someone that is gay could change. They think that this behavior is a threat to the concept of familly which is sacred.

I think they are wrong, that it's not a choice, and that god does'nt care about what people do in their bedroom . But it's a question of opinion and they have a point about the huge importance of familly in the human experience.

[IamsSon]

You don't have to take the bible literaly to be a beleiver. Few Christian think that the world is 6000 years old by now. Let's never forget that the bible was writen by humans.

Some people think that homosexuality is'nt natural (that it's a learned behavior) so they consider that someone that is gay could change. They think that this behavior is a threat to the concept of familly which is sacred.

I think they are wrong, that it's not a choice, and that god does'nt care about what people do in their bedroom . But it's a question of opinion and they have a point about the huge importance of familly in the human experience.

Does this opinion hold for adultery? pedophilia? polygamy? What do you base this belief on?

[Memnoch]

Does this opinion hold for adultery? pedophilia? polygamy? What do you base this belief on?

My critera is quite simple: Does it hurt anyone?

Polygamy, contraception, homosexuality don't hurt anybody in my eyes, it's not as if there was a lack of humans on the planet right now.

Pedophilia ruin a life, it's like a murder to me.

[Beckys_Mom]

Pedophilia ruin a life, it's like a murder to me.

very much like one to me also....

[sam12six]

I think, for the most part, the people who COULD argue the opposite team's POV are the people who don't really post their personal beliefs a lot.

What I'm saying is:

1) some christians say, "follow the good messages in the bible the rest is irrelevant."

2) some christians say, "the bible is the written embodiment of God's will. Follow it to the letter."

3) some nonchristians say, "there are good messages in the bible, I just don't believe in religion."

4) some nonchristians say, "no matter what, you just can't get past the fact that the bible's a fairy tale."

#1 and #3 probably are the most likely to be able to see the other side of the issue, and also the the ones least likely to get directly involved in religious debates.

For what it's worth, I don't believe any religion has all the answers, BUT if I did, I'd probably be #2.

I've often asked my friends who profess religion,

"If you believe, why aren't you devoting your life to the study of your religion. If I accepted the god of Abraham, I'd be getting PHD's in anthropology, theology, learning greek and hebrew and any other language useful to the study. I'd be doing anything necessary to get my hands on duplicates of the original texts (not translations). After all, one lifetime is not that much weighed against eternity. Isn't it going to suck if the original text says, "All these rules are important, but the MOST important rule is this: Eat a sprig of mint daily for God loves minty breath and no one who fails to eat a sprig of mint each day of his life shall pass the threshold of heaven.." ?"