Is the Biblical Yahweh actually a dragon?

[draconic chronicler]

I think for myself on a daily basis (I am even doing it currently) and yet, I am completely untroubled by you "making sense" of any type, let alone too much sense.

Well of course. It is the people who think for themselves who should not feel toubled.

[churchanddestroy]

I'm sorry that you know too little about the bible, and how it relates to the actual historical events supported by archaeology to be able to understand what I am talking about. You are unable to refute anything I have said so the best you can do is your childish insults.

I have very good credibility to anyone who has tha ability to think for themselves and who understands that sometimes real history contradicts the Bible. I know what I am talking about, and you obviously do not. In fact, people like your are annoyed, upset and lash out with your juvenile behaviou becasue I make too much sense, and it troubles them.

Show me where I am incorrect, and therfore have no credibility. You cannot, because you know nothing about these subjects.

I dunno, DC, you throw things up that are often very much subject to interpretation, and as such its hard to think anything more of what you're saying other than you reaaalllllly like dragons.

Edit.

Edited June 25, 2008 by churchanddestroy

[RamboIII]

A better question is: Is Yaweh a blundering idiot? To which the answer is yes, he is unable to create a perfect universe. But hark! I speak not of the humans to which your predictable answer will be, "we have free will." I speak of the destroyed galaxies, the colliding stars, the asteroids which implode other interplanetary objects. Or are you telling me that the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was to wash them of their sins?

[Dredimus]

I'm not try to change the Bible. Everything I have said is a fact. I am just looking at the same facts you are but not brainwashed to believe the Bible's version when it contradicts historical facts. And actually it is not so much facts but opinions we disagree on.

The Bible writers say Hezakiah was a good king becasue he destroyed Yahweh's idol. And there are still Germans who will say Hitler did great things for Germany.

I am just not buying the Jewish mythology that Hezakiah did the right thing becasue both the Bible and real history tell us terrible things happened from the moment the idol was broken, whereas Solomon, the king who honored the idol as well as Yahweh's sepent-dragon female consort was the richest and most powerful king the Israelites ever had. Like it or not, these are the facts. You are just freaked out because you never heard of anyone approaching these stories from the fact Yahweh in not the creator, but a selfish, prideful, bloodthirsty, virgin and child-eating dragon, just as many ancient Christians understood, as well as the Persians. Even Jesus said as much when he told the Pharisees they were worshipping the 'murderer from the beginning' , who was NOT His father. And who were the Pharisees worshipping? Yahweh, of course.

Please show me just one thing I said that was not true.

And where do you gather these "Facts"? You do not have one shred of evidence for what you are saying yet you keep tauting them it as "fact". You provide not one piece of scripture, nor a reputable scholar or scientific entity... nothing. How do you expect any of us to take you seriously....? Oh, and you say there are millions that share the same view as you... but you know I did a bit of research of my own on you, and through the dozens of forum boards you are on, no one seems to agree with you... odd isnt it?

[Cleomenes]

I'm sorry that you know too little about the bible, and how it relates to the actual historical events supported by archaeology to be able to understand what I am talking about. You are unable to refute anything I have said so the best you can do is your childish insults.

I have very good credibility to anyone who has tha ability to think for themselves and who understands that sometimes real history contradicts the Bible. I know what I am talking about, and you obviously do not. In fact, people like your are annoyed, upset and lash out with your juvenile behaviou becasue I make too much sense, and it troubles them.

Show me where I am incorrect, and therfore have no credibility. You cannot, because you know nothing about these subjects.

That is the most patently laughable thing I have ever read on here. Countless members have destroyed your totally unsupported and downright fanciful theories on numerous threads. There is but a single user that any of your theories make any sense to...you. Are you really so arrogant as to think that every user online is too stupid to understand any of your theories? Could the problem instead lie with the proponent of your theories?

People would not have as many problems with you or your theories if you did not actively twist sources to fit the mold of your argument. Deception is not a substitute for viable evidence.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Cleomenes

[draconic chronicler]

And where do you gather these "Facts"? You do not have one shred of evidence for what you are saying yet you keep tauting them it as "fact". You provide not one piece of scripture, nor a reputable scholar or scientific entity... nothing. How do you expect any of us to take you seriously....? Oh, and you say there are millions that share the same view as you... but you know I did a bit of research of my own on you, and through the dozens of forum boards you are on, no one seems to agree with you... odd isnt it?

I have provided evidence for everything I have said here. Virtually every point in the OP is based on scripture. You cannot refute anything I say, so now you invent your nonsense. I don't expect the typical Christian to agree with me, after all, Yahweh is a dragon.

You also take what I said out of context.

I did say millions of people in the oriental world still recognize dragons as deities, and this is true. I also said millions, even billions acknowledge the existence of Yahweh, and all of the evidence seems to suggest he is one of the creaturs ancient man called a 'dragon'. Like the OP states, the evidence is quite overwhelming and has yet to be refuted.

[draconic chronicler]

A better question is: Is Yaweh a blundering idiot? To which the answer is yes, he is unable to create a perfect universe. But hark! I speak not of the humans to which your predictable answer will be, "we have free will." I speak of the destroyed galaxies, the colliding stars, the asteroids which implode other interplanetary objects. Or are you telling me that the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was to wash them of their sins?

I never claimed Yahweh was the creator of the universe. He is just an enhanced archosaur, one of many that seem to have 'watched' early man and insured his survival. The God which these 'tribal dragon deities' answered to was called Anu in Mesopotamia, and known as El to the Israelites and Canannites.

[The Gremlin]

DC you have yet to prove a few things....

That the Sumerians believed that Enki was a dragon. Calling him ushumgal once in a literary tradition that has him as humanoid, and describes him a number of metaphoric ways is not sufficient.

That the Sumerians believed a mushushu to literally exist as a physical creature.

That Yam is Enki.

That Yam is a mushushu....and was believed to literally exist.

That Yam is YHWH.

That YHWH is a mushushu....and was believed to literally exist.

While you have speculated on these points you have yet to provide sufficient evidence for any.

Edited June 26, 2008 by lil gremlin

[Dredimus]

I have provided evidence for everything I have said here. Virtually every point in the OP is based on scripture. You cannot refute anything I say, so now you invent your nonsense. I don't expect the typical Christian to agree with me, after all, Yahweh is a dragon.

You also take what I said out of context.

I did say millions of people in the oriental world still recognize dragons as deities, and this is true. I also said millions, even billions acknowledge the existence of Yahweh, and all of the evidence seems to suggest he is one of the creaturs ancient man called a 'dragon'. Like the OP states, the evidence is quite overwhelming and has yet to be refuted.

You still provide no scripture... Sounds to me like you are jumping straight to the defensive because you know you are wrong. You can say it is based on fact all you would like, but until you produce those facts, your statements will continue to be meaningless to the rest of us. And as far as me being a "Typical Christian" Try again, you have no idea what my religious values are. Its far beyond the time for you to put up or shut up. Provide Facts, Provide scripture, provide something of true worth, or leave it be. This topic is getting old and I'm sure its just a matter of time before a Mod shuts this one down like he has the others.

[drakonwick]

DC, the problem lies in you pushing your hypothesis as a fact.

You have been asked many questions to which you use a sidestepping retaliation, saying people are not as

knowledgable as you, and do not know what they are talking about. (Which is highly condescending).

1.) You claim Enki is/was a Dragon! Your evidence: A five-thousand plus year old epitaph and a hymn.

This is not conclusive evidence.

2.) You claim that all current christians worship the Canaanite Dragon Yam! Your evidence: Yam is a

Mushushu Dragon. This is false, as you are applying your hypothesis as a fact with no conclusive

evidence.

3.) You claim that many scientists and scholars agree with your hypothesis! There is no evidence here

as you have yet to provide any.

The main point here is, where is the solid evidence?

Regards,

Tom

[draconic chronicler]

DC, the problem lies in you pushing your hypothesis as a fact.

You have been asked many questions to which you use a sidestepping retaliation, saying people are not as

knowledgable as you, and do not know what they are talking about. (Which is highly condescending).

1.) You claim Enki is/was a Dragon! Your evidence: A five-thousand plus year old epitaph and a hymn.

This is not conclusive evidence.

2.) You claim that all current christians worship the Canaanite Dragon Yam! Your evidence: Yam is a

Mushushu Dragon. This is false, as you are applying your hypothesis as a fact with no conclusive

evidence.

3.) You claim that many scientists and scholars agree with your hypothesis! There is no evidence here

as you have yet to provide any.

The main point here is, where is the solid evidence?

Regards,

Tom

1. Many scholars believe Enki was perceived as a dragon (though as a god could shape shift into a human form). The Bilbeorigins article on the Genesis story quotes many of these scholars, and I have posted that information here before. Enki tricks Adam out of eternal life in the Garden of Eden in the Sumerian version. A walking, talking serpent tricks Adam out of eternal life in the Garden of eden in the Bible. Enki is called a Great Serpent dragon in his hymns. Why are you not able to see the connection. All of those scholars quoted in Bibleorigins could. Do I really need to post these sources all again? Even when his name is changed to Ea, hymns still describe one of his forms as a scaly. cl;awed, serrpent headed monster (dragon).

2. Many scholars also connect the cannanite beliefs with the earliest Hebrew beliefs. El is the high God in both theologies. Yam/Yaw is a lower "son of god". This is implied to be the same relationship as El and Yahweh in the bible. I have posted these scholarly articles here before as well. The problem is that later on, when they became monotheistic, the Hebrews morphed the Creator El, and the tribabl god Yahweh (whose descriptions, idol, assistants-seraphim all suggest a serpent-dragon deity), into one god called Yahweh.

3. No, I never said any of them actually believed any of this was real. They may connect Yaw with Yahweh, or acknowledge the Seraphim mean fiery flying serpents, but it does not necessarily mean they believe either Yahweh the dragon or Yahweh, the bearded guy on a golden throne are real entities. Of course there are scientists who believe the Bible has turths, and even that El's creation story remarkably parallels evolution (though Yahweh's doesn't). Perhaps they will also believe Yahweh is a reptilian entity apparently created by El when they read my book, for the evidence is there.

[drakonwick]

1. Many scholars believe Enki was perceived as a dragon (though as a god could shape shift into a human form). The Bilbeorigins article on the Genesis story quotes many of these scholars, and I have posted that information here before. Enki tricks Adam out of eternal life in the Garden of Eden in the Sumerian version. A walking, talking serpent tricks Adam out of eternal life in the Garden of eden in the Bible. Enki is called a Great Serpent dragon in his hymns. Why are you not able to see the connection. All of those scholars quoted in Bibleorigins could. Do I really need to post these sources all again? Even when his name is changed to Ea, hymns still describe one of his forms as a scaly. cl;awed, serrpent headed monster (dragon).

2. Many scholars also connect the cannanite beliefs with the earliest Hebrew beliefs. El is the high God in both theologies. Yam/Yaw is a lower "son of god". This is implied to be the same relationship as El and Yahweh in the bible. I have posted these scholarly articles here before as well. The problem is that later on, when they became monotheistic, the Hebrews morphed the Creator El, and the tribabl god Yahweh (whose descriptions, idol, assistants-seraphim all suggest a serpent-dragon deity), into one god called Yahweh.

3. No, I never said any of them actually believed any of this was real. They may connect Yaw with Yahweh, or acknowledge the Seraphim mean fiery flying serpents, but it does not necessarily mean they believe either Yahweh the dragon or Yahweh, the bearded guy on a golden throne are real entities. Of course there are scientists who believe the Bible has turths, and even that El's creation story remarkably parallels evolution (though Yahweh's doesn't). Perhaps they will also believe Yahweh is a reptilian entity apparently created by El when they read my book, for the evidence is there.

You are reffering to the Sumerian story, Adapa and the Southwind.

Adapa, or perhaps Adamu, son of Ea! When Adapa was fishing one day on a smooth sea, the south wind rose suddenly and overturned his boat, so that the was thrown into the sea. Angered by the mishap, he broke the wings of the south wind so that for seven days it could not blow the sea's coolness over the hot land. Anu calls Adapa to account for this misdeed, and his father Ea warns him as to what should befall him. He tells him how to fool Tammuz and Gishzida, who will meet him at the gate of heaven. Ea cautions him not to eat or drink anything in heaven, as Ea fears that the food and drink of death will be set before Adapa. However, the food and drink of eternal life are set before him instead, and Adapa's over-caution deprives him of immortality. He has to return to Earth instead.

Even though there is no forbidden fruit or talking serpent in this story, as it only mentions food/drink, (In general).

Anyone can see the similarities of this story with the one written in the book of genesis. (That was written much later).

But, I still do not see how a Dragon converges with these stories.?

Regards,

Tom

[draconic chronicler]

You are reffering to the Sumerian story, Adapa and the Southwind.

Adapa, or perhaps Adamu, son of Ea! When Adapa was fishing one day on a smooth sea, the south wind rose suddenly and overturned his boat, so that the was thrown into the sea. Angered by the mishap, he broke the wings of the south wind so that for seven days it could not blow the sea's coolness over the hot land. Anu calls Adapa to account for this misdeed, and his father Ea warns him as to what should befall him. He tells him how to fool Tammuz and Gishzida, who will meet him at the gate of heaven. Ea cautions him not to eat or drink anything in heaven, as Ea fears that the food and drink of death will be set before Adapa. However, the food and drink of eternal life are set before him instead, and Adapa's over-caution deprives him of immortality. He has to return to Earth instead.

Even though there is no forbidden fruit or talking serpent in this story, as it only mentions food/drink, (In general).

Anyone can see the similarities of this story with the one written in the book of genesis. (That was written much later).

But, I still do not see how a Dragon converges with these stories.?

Regards,

Tom

Enki is called "the Great Dragon who stands in Eridu", in an ancient Sumerian Hymn, that goes on about the great garden he planted for his people (Eden). And as you stated, Enki tricks Adapa out of eternal life. Technically Adap is not a real son, he was supposedly formed out of clay much as Adam in Genesis. But even so, it is already acknowledged in this story that there are many humans. Eridu is already a city and Adapa catches fish for Enki.

Now in Genesis there is a walking, talking, possibly flying "serpent" in the same Garden of Eden who also gives Adapa/Adam bad advice that causes him to lose his chance at etenral life.

sooooooooo............. you still don't see how a dragon converges in these to stories. The Serpent is punished by making him crawl on his belly, suggesting he has legs, and possibly wings before this, just like "the Great Dragon Enki who created the garden of Eden.

[draconic chronicler]

'lil gremlin' - DC you have yet to prove a few things....

That the Sumerians believed that Enki was a dragon. Calling him ushumgal once in a literary tradition that has him as humanoid, and describes him a number of metaphoric ways is not sufficient.

DC Many of the Annuaki high gods are referred to as ushumgal dragons, this is a CONSISTENT trait and not a metaphor. Enlil and Annana/Ishtar are also called dragon, and even when Enki becomes Ea, he is described in intimate detail with scales, claws, a serpent like head with sharp teeth, and even heel less feet just as if someone were describing a theropod dinousar!

GREM That the Sumerians believed a mushushu to literally exist as a physical creature.

DC Several scholars believe the nushushu was probably a real, now extinct creature because its likeness is portrayed along with real bulls and lions on the Ishtar Gate.

GREM That Yam is Enki.

DC Several scholars have postulated this, and you know it.

GREM That Yam is a mushushu....and was believed to literally exist.

DC Yam is sometimes referred to as a dragon, and people believed dragons were real back then.

GREM That Yam is YHWH.

DC This has also been proposed by lettered scholars in the field, and you know it.GREM That YHWH is a mushushu....and was believed to literally exist.

DC The Hebrews believed Yahweh was a physical creature that lived in the tabernacle and physically consumed his offerings of lambs, calves and midianite virgins.. The Bible states he spews fire out of his mouth and has wings. He ordered Moses to build a serpent idol that was worshipped throughout the glory days of Judah. Yahweh highest servants are fiery serpents, much like the furious serpents that are Mushushu dragons. Even the holiest object in the second temple, the menorah was decorated with dragons.... now why would that be?l

GREM While you have speculated on these points you have yet to provide sufficient evidence for any.

DC Esteemed scholars have provided the evidence already. All I have to do is footnote and credit them.

[TheEssenceofExcellence]

the entire enki thing is completely ridiculas. First of all the story in the book of enki is false, like I said lies from a fallen angel. But the fact that you keep saying he's a dragon is the funniest thing. If you've read the book, the summerian gods from their own descriptions by enki himself are nothing more than space men from a planet with a bad atmosphere. From the book all they were were men and women basicly who needed gold to repair their planets atmosphere. The one guy made it to earth (then more and more) and then eventually genetically engineered apes and made them look like them to use as workers. The apes that now basicly look and are exactly like the summerian gods are supposed to be us. Well I don't look like a dragon, most other people I know don't look like a dragon. THAT FACE ON MARS THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ONE OF THOSE SUMMERIAN GODS ISN'T THE FACE OF A DRAGON!!!! So where in the world does this fabricated fallen angel lie make sense at all? especially from your interpratation that enki was a dragon? The bible is the truth, not any summerian work of fiction. enki was just a sad fallen angel who wanted to make a book that would confuse people in the future even going as far as to lure people into believing it's scientifically correct by playing on and mentioning evolution.

Like everyone else has said you have no proof of any of your claims, I shot your initial claims down myself in my earlier post. You blatantly lie and then come back and say you haven't when you've been shown to have lied. And like I pointed out from your ignorant suggestion that the leviathan mentioned in job was a female dragon playmate of YHVH (which is ignorant since the scriture clearly indicated that the leviathan is a MALE) you don't even know the words of scripture you attempt to use as evidence.

Every post you've ever made that I've read where you claim things like this is basicly never backed up with clear and accurate scriptual quotes. And aside from the Bible you always claim that this book says this and these people said this..........Well I'm not going to lie, alot of the works and ideas you mention I haven't read or heard of myself. Probably most people haven't read any ancient cannanite writings, or summerian works, ........basicly what I'm getting at is that you could be making up pretty much all of your claims since you never use a quote from any book that states the things you claim. We already know your a liar because you lie with and about the words of scripture which WE ALL have access to and can refute you on! If your that bold to lie with material we have in hand how much more likely are you to lie about material most of us don't have access to??? Fortunately I have read the book of enki and many of the gnostic christian works and can refute you on your crazy assumptions about them.

[MadMachine]

The biblical Yahweh might as well be a Dragon. They are equally non-existent.

[draconic chronicler]

the entire enki thing is completely ridiculas. First of all the story in the book of enki is false, like I said lies from a fallen angel. But the fact that you keep saying he's a dragon is the funniest thing. If you've read the book, the summerian gods from their own descriptions by enki himself are nothing more than space men from a planet with a bad atmosphere. From the book all they were were men and women basicly who needed gold to repair their planets atmosphere. The one guy made it to earth (then more and more) and then eventually genetically engineered apes and made them look like them to use as workers. The apes that now basicly look and are exactly like the summerian gods are supposed to be us. Well I don't look like a dragon, most other people I know don't look like a dragon. THAT FACE ON MARS THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ONE OF THOSE SUMMERIAN GODS ISN'T THE FACE OF A DRAGON!!!! So where in the world does this fabricated fallen angel lie make sense at all? especially from your interpratation that enki was a dragon? The bible is the truth, not any summerian work of fiction. enki was just a sad fallen angel who wanted to make a book that would confuse people in the future even going as far as to lure people into believing it's scientifically correct by playing on and mentioning evolution.

Like everyone else has said you have no proof of any of your claims, I shot your initial claims down myself in my earlier post. You blatantly lie and then come back and say you haven't when you've been shown to have lied. And like I pointed out from your ignorant suggestion that the leviathan mentioned in job was a female dragon playmate of YHVH (which is ignorant since the scriture clearly indicated that the leviathan is a MALE) you don't even know the words of scripture you attempt to use as evidence.

Every post you've ever made that I've read where you claim things like this is basicly never backed up with clear and accurate scriptual quotes. And aside from the Bible you always claim that this book says this and these people said this..........Well I'm not going to lie, alot of the works and ideas you mention I haven't read or heard of myself. Probably most people haven't read any ancient cannanite writings, or summerian works, ........basicly what I'm getting at is that you could be making up pretty much all of your claims since you never use a quote from any book that states the things you claim. We already know your a liar because you lie with and about the words of scripture which WE ALL have access to and can refute you on! If your that bold to lie with material we have in hand how much more likely are you to lie about material most of us don't have access to??? Fortunately I have read the book of enki and many of the gnostic christian works and can refute you on your crazy assumptions about them.

You get your information from Stichin, and ALL of the serious scholars of Mesopotamian language state his ideas that the Sumerian gods were spacemen is utter nonsense. Even Stichin KNOWS these gods are all called dragons, but claims these are the 'spaceships' they flew in.

I have never lied about scripture. You simply don't know enough about the real scripture I'm quoting. There is a whole "Christian Mythology" not in the bible that was created from not understanding the original languages. A good example is the creation of a fallen angel called Lucicer that the Jews never recognized becasue this is NOT in the Bible.

Google the words 'female' and 'leviathan' and you will see that several Biblical scholars that know far more than you postulate it is a female. But this is really pointless. It is not a proper name but a generic term for a fearsome fire breathing reptile, though in some instances it seems to the a crocodile, meant to symbolize the Pharoah of Egypt.

You cannot refute anything I have said. Anyone who believes Stichin's spaceman fantasies knows absolutely nothing about anicent near eastern history and theology.

[MUM24/7]

I have a question for you DC....More of a personal nature but still valid nonetheless.....

When did you become fascinated with dragons and why are you so passionate about them ?? It might help us understand you a little bit........

[TheEssenceofExcellence]

You get your information from Stichin, and ALL of the serious scholars of Mesopotamian language state his ideas that the Sumerian gods were spacemen is utter nonsense. Even Stichin KNOWS these gods are all called dragons, but claims these are the 'spaceships' they flew in.

I have never lied about scripture. You simply don't know enough about the real scripture I'm quoting. There is a whole "Christian Mythology" not in the bible that was created from not understanding the original languages. A good example is the creation of a fallen angel called Lucicer that the Jews never recognized becasue this is NOT in the Bible.

Google the words 'female' and 'leviathan' and you will see that several Biblical scholars that know far more than you postulate it is a female. But this is really pointless. It is not a proper name but a generic term for a fearsome fire breathing reptile, though in some instances it seems to the a crocodile, meant to symbolize the Pharoah of Egypt.

You cannot refute anything I have said. Anyone who believes Stichin's spaceman fantasies knows absolutely nothing about anicent near eastern history and theology.

You keep talking about enki and the most anyone knows about enki and summerian history revolving around him comes from his book as far as I know, all you talk about is a hymm. There are only a few people in the entire world that can read summerian and you aren't one of them. One of those people translated the book of enki and yes his name is Stichin. Now I don't believe the nonesense as I arleady said it's a fallen angel work of crap, but to base an opinion that enki was a dragon is simply false *******ness especially if you've read the book of enki which clearly shows different! D.C you are not a scholar, Stichin is, I don't even like the guy myself but don't try to act like you know more about the subject than he does.

And I've already refutted pretty much everything you've said. You still don't have any quotes to back up your claims. And here you go again, you don't lie about scripture? So your saying you don't make things up???? Okay, so show me the quote in the Bible or ANY other work for that matter that states the God of Israel, YHVH, stopped the flow of the Jordan River by laying his huge dragon body across the river to block its' flow!!!! Go ahead and show me the quote! Where is it, oh wait here it is:

Dragonic Chronicler Chp. 3 verse 10: from his book of B.S.: "I don't have a quote because I lied and completely made that up, making wild untrue and un provable assumptions."

[TheEssenceofExcellence]

Okay here are some pictures that are supposed to depict enki, you tell me if he looks like a dragon to you....

enki is the first one on the right

this too is supposed to be enki

This is Ea/enki D.C. can confirm if he wishes but I believe the two names are are attached to the same person. Enki is supposed to be the one in the middle highlighted in purple or blue (I take it that's just done so he stands out in the picture though I don't know for sure)

In this one here enki looks the most fallen angel or dragon like but still, not the typical dragon image you would expect if he was indeed a dragon.

And here is what someone else wrote in a book describing how enki is pictured: "In art Enki is represented as a seated god with long beard, wearing a cap with many horns and a long, pleated robe. Streams of water flow from his arms to the ground, sometimes with little fish swimming along the flow."

"Enki was god of the subterranean freshwater ocean (abju), and was especially associated with wisdom, magic and incantations, and with the arts and crafts of civilization."

- Black and Green, Gods, Demons and Symbols of Ancient Mesopotamia

[draconic chronicler]

You keep talking about enki and the most anyone knows about enki and summerian history revolving around him comes from his book as far as I know, all you talk about is a hymm. There are only a few people in the entire world that can read summerian and you aren't one of them. One of those people translated the book of enki and yes his name is Stichin. Now I don't believe the nonesense as I arleady said it's a fallen angel work of crap, but to base an opinion that enki was a dragon is simply false *******ness especially if you've read the book of enki which clearly shows different! D.C you are not a scholar, Stichin is, I don't even like the guy myself but don't try to act like you know more about the subject than he does.

And I've already refutted pretty much everything you've said. You still don't have any quotes to back up your claims. And here you go again, you don't lie about scripture? So your saying you don't make things up???? Okay, so show me the quote in the Bible or ANY other work for that matter that states the God of Israel, YHVH, stopped the flow of the Jordan River by laying his huge dragon body across the river to block its' flow!!!! Go ahead and show me the quote! Where is it, oh wait here it is:

Dragonic Chronicler Chp. 3 verse 10: from his book of B.S.: "I don't have a quote because I lied and completely made that up, making wild untrue and un provable assumptions."

Give it up guy. It is common knowledge to any student of Sumerian theology that Enki, Enlil, Ananna, Ningishzida are ALL called 'great dragons', terrible dragons, etc, in their hymns. I have posted the hymns several times here. Even when Enki becomes Ea centuries later, the hymn still carefully describe his serpent head, scaly body clawed hands and heel less feet. Stichin knew this too.

These Hymns are the real deal, whereas who is on a cylinder seal is merely an opinion.

Do these gods also appear in human form? Yes, but his is no different tahn most religions. Zeus turned into a drakon or gander when he raped human females, Quetzalcoatl could become a bearded white man or feathered serpent, some say he was Jesus! Ningishzida is depicted as either a dragon or man. The Chinese dragons were said to be able to take a human form. I do not believed such things, and they may have been inspired by real dragons having humans assistants to pose as them in human form while they were off mind things when they were off hunting or mating.

I have provided sources for everything I have stated here, but not over and over again. Just read the earlier posts.

[LaPucelle]

[Dredimus]

since we have allowed this threat to move on so long, can I propose my theory?

God, Yahweh as you would have it... is actually BIGFOOT!

It is common knowledge that God himself leaves "footprints" in the sands of our lives... thus... all those bigfoot castings we have belong to him... And, does the bible not say that he created man in his image? He didnt say what the image was but I bet the first humans were hairy as all get out... All of my conjected proof can be found here at some point in time. IM sure I have provided links to my information some time in the past, you will have to go back on the 856,000+ post made on this forum to find them, and if you still dont come across them im sure a mod deleted them...

[draconic chronicler]

since we have allowed this threat to move on so long, can I propose my theory?

God, Yahweh as you would have it... is actually BIGFOOT!

It is common knowledge that God himself leaves "footprints" in the sands of our lives... thus... all those bigfoot castings we have belong to him... And, does the bible not say that he created man in his image? He didnt say what the image was but I bet the first humans were hairy as all get out... All of my conjected proof can be found here at some point in time. IM sure I have provided links to my information some time in the past, you will have to go back on the 856,000+ post made on this forum to find them, and if you still dont come across them im sure a mod deleted them...

No Guy, that's not how I "would have it". In fact, I "have it" on very good authority that Yahweh and the other dragons eat "bigfoots" when they can catch them. And this is why none of their bodies have ever been found. They were earlier known as 'Nephilim' and Yahweh managed to drown most of them in one place, but this was a localized flood and some got away. The ones that managed to avoid being eaten after all of these years are extremely elusive now, though their footprints and vague sightings still occur.

How could you confuse Yahweh the dragon with a hairy ape man anyway. Just read the Bible and it explains everything. Yahweh spews fire from his mouth like a dragon. He has great big wings like a dragon. He is daily fed more calves, lambs and occasionally captured enemy virgins than any ape man could eat. He flies through the air (something I have never heard of a big foot doing), his girlfriend is a canaanite fertility goddess associated with serpents/dragons, he ordered Moses to make a brazen idol of a fiery flying serpent (undoubtedly his image), that was worshipped as long was Judah was a great nation, and his closest associates, that were perhaps even his offspring are called Seraphim, a word that means "fiery flying serpents" AKA "dragons". Everything about Yahweh says 'dragon', NOT 'hairy ape man'.

Don't worry about the references and sources, for the book will be out very soon now, and they are all included there.

Edited June 29, 2008 by draconic chronicler

[drakonwick]

No Guy, that's not how I "would have it". In fact, I "have it" on very good authority that Yahweh and the other dragons eat "bigfoots" when they can catch them. And this is why none of their bodies have ever been found. They were earlier known as 'Nephilim' and Yahweh managed to drown most of them in one place, but this was a localized flood and some got away. The ones that managed to avoid being eaten after all of these years are extremely elusive now, though their footprints and vague sightings still occur.

So, now bigfoot is the nephilim spoken of in genesis, and you propose dragons eat/ate them. WOW, two hypothesis

in one your on a roll DC.

Seriously though! You actually think a big, mysterious, harry animal, that has yet to be found are nephilim?