Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
draconic chronicler

Is the Biblical Yahweh actually a dragon?

458 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Archosaur
Yes I agree that dragons could well be something we worship probably because there is a really rather large one dead in Britain near the border of wales (red dragon flag)

I found it some time ago and realised that we mine a fluorescent ore from where its plates lie like those on the classic Stegosaurus now food for thought this thing is something like 40 miles long and lived well before the dinosaurs we know of in a time when everything was giant. its vertabra are still visible today take alook at my work in progress and see what you think any questions just ask and Ill try to answer them from my point of view

http://www.blumation.com/dragon/flashgallery.html

ISA

Thanks, that was fun! I am reminded of Starchy's dragon art.

You might want to pop this up in a Welsh or British Isles dragon forum in the crypto section, though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
draconic chronicler
it depends on which translation you have, in some he is dealt a mortal wound, and can only gasp " i am as good as dead" before he is scattered or drunk by Baal...in others he is killed.....saying "i am dead" or " i am surely dead".

most commentators state that he is killed.

In the alternative version where Baal kills Lotan there is less ambiguity.

One theory you probably try to ignore is that Yam is the chaotic winter sea (or rather his ascendency comes in winter) Baal rules autumn and spring, and spends summer in death.

Asherah becomes Yam's consort not because she likes him, but under duress, and for the sake of others. She is Baal's partner, this is one of the things that drives Baal to kill Yam.

In yet another story Yam-nahar, the seven headed dragon is killed by Anat, Baal's sister who is good with the bow.

Are you saying that Yahweh is a 7 headed dragon? I thought that you said that they were impossible, unbelievable and just made up. :hmm:

Please show me where in Sumerian mythology Enki is a storm god, or god of chaos, or vengeful, or god of the salt water (he is god of the sweet waters that lie under the earth, and of the earth, and of fertility etc) Yam is the sea....his name means sea. Enki avoids conflict, Yam persues it. Enki is gentle, wise and magical, Yam is violent and ambitious.

The underlined part of your post show some back-peddling. How can he undeniably be Enki as you have often presented if he is a combination? this suggests he didnt exist, and undermines your whole theory.

It suggests that he was indeed a construct....ie: made up by man.

Acombination of Enki and Enlil's actions does not make Yahweh a construct. It just means the illiterate hebrew shepherds mixed things up a bit during hunreds of years of retelling these as an oral tradtition.

And as for the Asheroth, Yaw and Ba'al love triangle, history shows us that Yaw win! Ba'al must leave his lands becasue the israelites have killd is people, and Ash becomes Yaw's consort and is worshpped aongside Yaw in Solomon's temple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Gremlin
Acombination of Enki and Enlil's actions does not make Yahweh a construct. It just means the illiterate hebrew shepherds mixed things up a bit during hunreds of years of retelling these as an oral tradtition.

And as for the Asheroth, Yaw and Ba'al love triangle, history shows us that Yaw win! Ba'al must leave his lands becasue the israelites have killd is people, and Ash becomes Yaw's consort and is worshpped aongside Yaw in Solomon's temple.

so where was the dragon god while his people were getting things wrong?

The truth is that YHWH is a construct of the attributes, powers and deeds of many gods. And yet he is none of them.

re: the love triangle, ....israel was punished by God for Solomon's indiscretion by worshipping Asheroth.

Face it DC there is more than Yam to YHVH....You cannot prove otherwise.

you cannot prove that the canaanite Yam is Enki.

You cannot prove that Enki was a mushussu....

You cannot prove that a mushussu actually ever existed, and is anything more than a composite beastie and mythological construct.

So, you cannot prove that YHVH was a dragon.

all you can do is speculate...and twist things to fit your picture.

This is fine, but to present it as 'fact' is misleading, and untrue.

Edited by lil gremlin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dredimus
OK im getting closer here... it is beleived that this is one of many gods they beleived in...polytheist (beleif in many Gods)

As I said, read genesis and you will find two different gods, (El and Yahweh) with two completely different creation stories. Adam is created first in Yahweh's Creation, and he is created last in El's creation, which parallels evolution and an old earth.

I never said El is a dragon. He is the Creator. All of the Bene Elohim are dragons, though some, like Ba'al Haddad adopted other symbols, like a bull. Their dragon form is revealed by their requirement for animal (and somtimes human) offerings.

Thanks

Alright, so we are gonna keep going down this path... There is no mention of any "El" or "Elohim" in Genesis... you can check that at This Link This is a side by side translation from hebrew to english. I have read Genesis over and over again and no where have I seen 2 versions of the creation...

(edited for mis click on quote)

Edited by Dredimus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Gremlin
Alright, so we are gonna keep going down this path... There is no mention of any "El" or "Elohim" in Genesis... you can check that at This Link This is a side by side translation from hebrew to english. I have read Genesis over and over again and no where have I seen 2 versions of the creation...

(edited for mis click on quote)

hi dredimus....from your link

Elohim = אֱלֹהִים

it is mentioned in almost every numbered line, translated as God.

this is different to יהוה= YHVH

also translated to God.

im not sure of its frequency in Genesis, but i think it first occurs in 4.26 ...translated in your version to "the name of the LORD"

כו וּלְשֵׁת גַּם-הוּא יֻלַּד-בֵּן, וַיִּקְרָא אֶת-שְׁמוֹ אֱנוֹשׁ; אָז הוּחַל, לִקְרֹא בְּשֵׁם יְהוָה. {ס}

26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enosh; then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. {S}

hope this helps

Edited by lil gremlin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dredimus
hi dredimus....from your link

Elohim = אֱלֹהִים

it is mentioned in almost every numbered line, translated as God.

this is different to יהוה= YHVH

also translated to God.

im not sure of its frequency in Genesis, but i think it first occurs in 4.26 ...translated in your version to "the name of the LORD"

כו וּלְשֵׁת גַּם-הוּא יֻלַּד-בֵּן, וַיִּקְרָא אֶת-שְׁמוֹ אֱנוֹשׁ; אָז הוּחַל, לִקְרֹא בְּשֵׁם יְהוָה. {ס}

26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enosh; then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. {S}

hope this helps

Ok, let me try putting my opinion and research into a better format of wording, I realize that my last post was a little rushed and I should go into more detail on what im saying... Lets Start

According to the gentleman, who is of a very strong jewish family, and reads Hebrew quite well... and is sitting in the office with me..

אֱלֹהִים = Translates into "God"

אֱלוֹהִים = Translates into "Elohim"

(The difference is subtle, but it is there)

Also according to him, and Hebrew scholars around the world "Elohim" is a plural noun and it refers to the heavenly entities (IE. Angels)

Now, no matter how you cut it or what name you use for GOD, he is still GOD. Lets get back on topic... no where do I see two stories of the creation in Genesis. Nor do I see how one can gather from the story of Creation that GOD is a dragon... and that is the topic of this thread, not the debate of the hebrew language.

Edited by Dredimus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT

DC

And I keep asking... where specifically in genesis do you find your claim? There are 50 books.....

Even what I do find states that this is a MYTH .....

Cannanite time... and "Lotan or Lawtan is the seven-headed sea serpent or dragon of Ugaritic MYTHS...."

So far Lotan is only recognized as a myth....

Being that this above IS QUOTED and recognized as myths... what proof is there if this is so?

Edited by WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
draconic chronicler
DC

And I keep asking... where specifically in genesis do you find your claim? There are 50 books.....

Even what I do find states that this is a MYTH .....

Cannanite time... and "Lotan or Lawtan is the seven-headed sea serpent or dragon of Ugaritic MYTHS...."

So far Lotan is only recognized as a myth....

Being that this above IS QUOTED and recognized as myths... what proof is there if this is so?

The two creation stories are in the first chapter of Genesis.

I agree that seven headed sea serpents are a myth. This is probably a metaphor for the untamed forces of nature to be conquered by a god. It is simply a rip off of the Tiamat story.

But Yam/Yaw is one of the sevenly 'watchers' recognized by both the canannites and hebrews, and appears to be the same dragon Enki of Sumeria. The "good' dragons are depicted as mushushus, which look surprisingly like the quadrepedal, winged, long necked , horned dragons of modern fantasy, an a good deal like the Welsh dragon, and short bodied Han dynasty winged dragons.

I supporse you can say any religious entity is a myth. But if there is any truth behind the Biblical God, one of the major ones is that Yahweh is a fire spewing dragon and an assistant to the Creator, El.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
draconic chronicler
Ok, let me try putting my opinion and research into a better format of wording, I realize that my last post was a little rushed and I should go into more detail on what im saying... Lets Start

According to the gentleman, who is of a very strong jewish family, and reads Hebrew quite well... and is sitting in the office with me..

אֱלֹהִים = Translates into "God"

אֱלוֹהִים = Translates into "Elohim"

(The difference is subtle, but it is there)

Also according to him, and Hebrew scholars around the world "Elohim" is a plural noun and it refers to the heavenly entities (IE. Angels)

Now, no matter how you cut it or what name you use for GOD, he is still GOD. Lets get back on topic... no where do I see two stories of the creation in Genesis. Nor do I see how one can gather from the story of Creation that GOD is a dragon... and that is the topic of this thread, not the debate of the hebrew language.

This is the correct translation of an important verse in its original form as found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Most Bibles today ignore it.

“When the Most High (EL) divided to the nations their inheritance,

when he separated the sons of Adam,

He set the bounds [borders] of the people [peoples, plural],

according to the number of the sons of Elohim

For the Lord’s [YHWH’s] portion is his people,

Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.”

Deuteronomy 32:8–9

This indicates that each human tribe has a "Son of Eloim" which I believe are the dragon gods recognized in myths all over the world. Yahweh is merely one more of El's "sons" but the one allocated to the people of Jacob (Hebrews).

As I previously mentioned, El's creation story is older and more realistic than Yahweh's which was added later.

This does not mean El is a dragon too. He is the Creator God and probably formless. But most human cultures that recognized the Creator, also recognized dragon assistants to the creator.

Centureis later, when the Hebrews became monotheistic, they morphed the shapeless creator El, with the fire spewing, winged dragon Yahweh to create the modern concept of God, supposedly an all wise creator of the universe, that for some odd reason is infatuatuated with a single tribe of human who he often behaved like a cruel 'dragon' agains, even demanding thier children for offerings and slaughtering them in their hundreds of thousands for disobedience. When you are able to discern Yahweh and El are two different entities, the Bible makes a lot more sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT
The two creation stories are in the first chapter of Genesis.

I agree that seven headed sea serpents are a myth. This is probably a metaphor for the untamed forces of nature to be conquered by a god. It is simply a rip off of the Tiamat story.

But Yam/Yaw is one of the sevenly 'watchers' recognized by both the canannites and hebrews, and appears to be the same dragon Enki of Sumeria. The "good' dragons are depicted as mushushus, which look surprisingly like the quadrepedal, winged, long necked , horned dragons of modern fantasy, an a good deal like the Welsh dragon, and short bodied Han dynasty winged dragons.

I supporse you can say any religious entity is a myth. But if there is any truth behind the Biblical God, one of the major ones is that Yahweh is a fire spewing dragon and an assistant to the Creator, El.

Thanks DC

I'll start chapter one for Genesis and see what I find.....at least I know where to look....50 are alot of books....

ok.... I read it..I dont see anything that says there were 2 creations... Can you elaborate with the verbage as to where in chapter/book one you specifically mean?????

Now,

Which Canannites or Hebrew scripts have what you mentioned about Yam/Yaw and His being a dragon....

Blessings

Edited by WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
draconic chronicler
Thanks DC

I'll start chapter one for Genesis and see what I find.....at least I know where to look....50 are alot of books....

ok.... I read it..I dont see anything that says there were 2 creations... Can you elaborate with the verbage as to where in chapter/book one you specifically mean?????

Now,

Which Canannites or Hebrew scripts have what you mentioned about Yam/Yaw and His being a dragon....

Blessings

Of course there are two stories. Elohim has the six epoch creation that begins with life in the sea, then a period of birds and 'dragons' (dinosaurs), then the mammals and finally man on the last day. And then ther is Yahweh's creation with Adam being the first thing created, after which the animals are created becasue Adam is lonely, and still adam is lonely so eve is created. Elohim = man created last Yahweh = man created first. The Elohim creation is so remarable that some scientists believe the Bible is inspired. So why is there the corny story about Adam being the first thing created? Evidentally to flatter the priest scorching dragon Yahweh. I don't blame them, after all, he fried Aaron's two sons for getting the sacrifices wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT
Of course there are two stories. Elohim has the six epoch creation that begins with life in the sea, then a period of birds and 'dragons' (dinosaurs), then the mammals and finally man on the last day. And then ther is Yahweh's creation with Adam being the first thing created, after which the animals are created becasue Adam is lonely, and still adam is lonely so eve is created. Elohim = man created last Yahweh = man created first. The Elohim creation is so remarable that some scientists believe the Bible is inspired. So why is there the corny story about Adam being the first thing created? Evidentally to flatter the priest scorching dragon Yahweh. I don't blame them, after all, he fried Aaron's two sons for getting the sacrifices wrong.

Im sorry, but I didnt see anything about this in there..... What verson of the Bible are you reading for this first chapter of Genises? I didnt even see the name Elohim.....

Zoom me in please....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
draconic chronicler
Im sorry, but I didnt see anything about this in there..... What verson of the Bible are you reading for this first chapter of Genises? I didnt even see the name Elohim.....

Zoom me in please....

Please go to the link below that explains everything I am talking about. Modern Bibles no longer use the terms Elohim and Yahweh, but usually replace thise with God and Lord. But this article shows these were orginally different Gods. Understand that I do not believe the Yahweh dragon is the creator, but El, just as the canannites believed, who acknowledged Yaw was a lesser diety than the creator. The ancient Hebrews believe these were originally seperate dieties as well, as I have shown in the original version of Deuteronomy.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f...opes/gen1st.htm

Edited by draconic chronicler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
churchanddestroy
Please go to the link below that explains everything I am talking about. Modern Bibles no longer use the terms Elohim and Yahweh, but usually replace thise with God and Lord. But this article shows these were orginally different Gods. Understand that I do not believe the Yahweh dragon is the creator, but El, just as the canannites believed, who acknowledged Yaw was a lesser diety than the creator. The ancient Hebrews believe these were originally seperate dieties as well, as I have shown in the original version of Deuteronomy.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f...opes/gen1st.htm

DC, it does not logically follow that just because the Judeo-Christian religions are based on much earlier religions that they actually believe what those early religions believe. There are a couple of other things that are fundamentally wrong with your theories.

1. Nowhere, besides from you, have I heard of the ancient pagan Gods that the Judeo-Christian God is based off of be referred to as a 'dragon'.

2. Nowhere, besides from you, have I heard the various angelic beings that supposedly reside with God (seraphim) be referred to as 'dragon-like'. Yes, Seraphim either have their etymological origins in the adj Saraph - to burn - or in the noun Saraph - which refers to the firey serpents that bit the Israelites in the wilderness. But it does not follow, logically, that just because the word Saraph is the etymological origin of Seraphim, it does not mean that they were known as 'dragons'. Saraph probably had a double meaning, like many words in the English language.

3. Aside from all that, you are also forgetting the fact that none of these Gods ever existed.

4. Finally, your biggest problem is that, like a Creationist, you try to work the problem out backwords: starting with a conclusion (Dragons) and forcing the evidence to conform to your unnaturally intense obsession with dragons. You need to start with the evidence and then come to a conclusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
drakonwick

From the earliest beliefs...

Tiamat is the sea, personified as a goddess, and a monstrous embodiment of primordial chaos. In the Enuma Elish, the Babylonian epic of creation, she gives birth to the first generation of gods; she later makes war upon them and is split in two by the storm-god Marduk, who uses her body to form the heavens and the earth. Tiamat is not referenced as anything but a goddess.

It is refferenced that Tiamat did create these monsters. But, in all do respect they are nothing more than the essence

of the prime creator, that forewhich is the sea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
draconic chronicler
From the earliest beliefs...

Tiamat is the sea, personified as a goddess, and a monstrous embodiment of primordial chaos. In the Enuma Elish, the Babylonian epic of creation, she gives birth to the first generation of gods; she later makes war upon them and is split in two by the storm-god Marduk, who uses her body to form the heavens and the earth. Tiamat is not referenced as anything but a goddess.

It is refferenced that Tiamat did create these monsters. But, in all do respect they are nothing more than the essence

of the prime creator, that forewhich is the sea.

Tiamat is not even an original Sumerian belief, but was a later invention after an already established theology that had no Tiamat. Tiamat was invented to be a monster that the later, humanoid diety Marduk could defeat, in a repetition of the older story of Marduk's 'father' Enki defeating Abzu.

Why was it necessary to add marduk to the Sumerian theology? Possibly because the older gods, like Enki and Enlil were regarded as "Great Serpent Dragons of Heaven, whereas Marduk appears to be a wholly humanoid diety, though often showed with a Muashushu dragon at his side, likely to remind everyone of his lineage to Enki/Ea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
draconic chronicler
DC, it does not logically follow that just because the Judeo-Christian religions are based on much earlier religions that they actually believe what those early religions believe. There are a couple of other things that are fundamentally wrong with your theories.

1. Nowhere, besides from you, have I heard of the ancient pagan Gods that the Judeo-Christian God is based off of be referred to as a 'dragon'.

2. Nowhere, besides from you, have I heard the various angelic beings that supposedly reside with God (seraphim) be referred to as 'dragon-like'. Yes, Seraphim either have their etymological origins in the adj Saraph - to burn - or in the noun Saraph - which refers to the firey serpents that bit the Israelites in the wilderness. But it does not follow, logically, that just because the word Saraph is the etymological origin of Seraphim, it does not mean that they were known as 'dragons'. Saraph probably had a double meaning, like many words in the English language.

3. Aside from all that, you are also forgetting the fact that none of these Gods ever existed.

4. Finally, your biggest problem is that, like a Creationist, you try to work the problem out backwords: starting with a conclusion (Dragons) and forcing the evidence to conform to your unnaturally intense obsession with dragons. You need to start with the evidence and then come to a conclusion.

We know that they shared the same belief that El was the high god, and that Yawheh was the tribabl diety becasue the Bible states this. Later it was editied to camoulfage the fact this was once a polytheistic theology. In a nutshell, they essentially had the same beliefs as the cannanties, but became completely monotheistic after the Babylonian captivity.

In his hymns enki is called a Great Serpent Dragon of Heaven, and even 1000 years later when called EA, he is physically described as a dragon. This is EXACTLY WHY there is a talking serpent in the Genesis story. Enki built the garden of Eden, and tricked Adam out of immortality.

As for seraphim being dragon like, Isaiah describes them with wings, arms and legs, and to be flying serpents, would require wings. And this is why there are other accounts of Drakons in heaven , such as Enoch and the Apocolypse of Baruch, both books used by Jews and Christians alike. Here they are called Drakons instead of Seraphim because these books were written in Greek, then the lingua franca of the Eastern mediterranean. Later christianity attempted to distance itself from acknowledging the heavenly dragons, but they are depicted on virtually every medieval chruch, and in every medieval bible. It is not surprsising you know so little about this, most Christians are not familiar with these facts either, as in the last few hundred years it has been covered up.

It is not my "obsession with dragons" that is driving this. It is mankind's obsession with dragons in every human culture. I am merely explaining why just why there has been this belief/nobsession with dragons all over the world, and since the dawn of mankind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
drakonwick
Tiamat is not even an original Sumerian belief, but was a later invention after an already established theology that had no Tiamat. Tiamat was invented to be a monster that the later, humanoid diety Marduk could defeat, in a repetition of the older story of Marduk's 'father' Enki defeating Abzu.

Why was it necessary to add marduk to the Sumerian theology? Possibly because the older gods, like Enki and Enlil were regarded as "Great Serpent Dragons of Heaven, whereas Marduk appears to be a wholly humanoid diety, though often showed with a Muashushu dragon at his side, likely to remind everyone of his lineage to Enki/Ea.

Okay, then what belief was this, and exactly how did they describe these creatures you so suredly call dragons?

Because, I am sure these creatures are nothing more than an amalgamation of two or more creatures these people

revered and respected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT
Please go to the link below that explains everything I am talking about. Modern Bibles no longer use the terms Elohim and Yahweh, but usually replace thise with God and Lord. But this article shows these were orginally different Gods. Understand that I do not believe the Yahweh dragon is the creator, but El, just as the canannites believed, who acknowledged Yaw was a lesser diety than the creator. The ancient Hebrews believe these were originally seperate dieties as well, as I have shown in the original version of Deuteronomy.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f...opes/gen1st.htm

I have read this link...

It refers to a "unknown -perhaps -Jewish preist" that intertwined 2 stories..One of which he made up.... That as we know in the Bible and "His own vesion, with his own ideas to fit his political goals"...He "changed" his to fit in, and created what this phantom writer wanted..... The difference in them being the order of creation...And the name by which God is called (the most ancient being Jehovah)..... Even still it doesnt refer to them as "different Gods" just called as different names, as I have said before.... (God, Jehova... still same person,just called differently ) Still no where metioning dragons....We are to take the word of an "unknown" writer???? And all you have above about El etc is not in this writing either... So where do you get this "made up" story?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT
Okay, then what belief was this, and exactly how did they describe these creatures you so suredly call dragons?

Because, I am sure these creatures are nothing more than an amalgamation of two or more creatures these people

revered and respected.

Hi Moro...

I read Isiah... There still are no Dragons here either......

in book 14 and 30 it refers to flying fliery serpent but it is refering to Lucifer......

Seraphim are angels with 6 wings...Not Serpents that fly and spew fire.... although I suppose if p***ed off enough perhaps they can...

So I think we can all stop looking for this "story" ...iTS ALL MADE UP OF mYTH AND BASED ON A "UNKNOWN WRITER".....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
draconic chronicler
I have read this link...

It refers to a "unknown -perhaps -Jewish preist" that intertwined 2 stories..One of which he made up.... That as we know in the Bible and "His own vesion, with his own ideas to fit his political goals"...He "changed" his to fit in, and created what this phantom writer wanted..... The difference in them being the order of creation...And the name by which God is called (the most ancient being Jehovah)..... Even still it doesnt refer to them as "different Gods" just called as different names, as I have said before.... (God, Jehova... still same person,just called differently ) Still no where metioning dragons....We are to take the word of an "unknown" writer???? And all you have above about El etc is not in this writing either... So where do you get this "made up" story?

Since each story has the name of a different god, as well as a different order of creation, the logical conclusion is that these are two different Gods with two different creations that were placed in the same book. And further proof of this is the fact Canaanite and Early Hebrew, polytheistic theology acknowledged the Chief God El, and lesser, tribal gods of the different peoples, such as Yaw (who would become Yahweh), and his enemy Ba'al Hadad, mentioned in both the Bible and canaanite literature. And to remove all doubt, there is a female goddess consort to both Ba'al and Yaw/Yahweh in both the Bible and Canannite literature.

Yahweh's consortship with a famale diety (dragon?) is well established. This provides more evidence that Yahweh is a biological creature with sexual needs, and that El is the actual creator, just as the more realistitic of the two Biblical creation stories state.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
drakonwick
Hi Moro...

I read Isiah... There still are no Dragons here either......

in book 14 and 30 it refers to flying fliery serpent but it is refering to Lucifer......

Seraphim are angels with 6 wings...Not Serpents that fly and spew fire.... although I suppose if p***ed off enough perhaps they can...

So I think we can all stop looking for this "story" ...iTS ALL MADE UP OF mYTH AND BASED ON A "UNKNOWN WRITER".....

Indeed Warrior! In that context the word Seraphim, (Which is only mentioned once in the canonic hebrew bible),

is shown to be a fiery flying serpent when the lord sent them to bite the israelites in the wilderness.

In that instance they obviously do not have six wings, as serpents do not have six wings. It seems they are being

used in a metaphorical sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
draconic chronicler
Indeed Warrior! In that context the word Seraphim, (Which is only mentioned once in the canonic hebrew bible),

is shown to be a fiery flying serpent when the lord sent them to bite the israelites in the wilderness.

In that instance they obviously do not have six wings, as serpents do not have six wings. It seems they are being

used in a metaphorical sense.

Are you kidding? What part of the word FLYING don't you understand, as in Fiery Flying SerpentsI? Winged animals fly. Comman snakes do not. This is Precisely why serious Biblical scholars understand the Seraph is a winged reptilian creature that goes by the SAME NAME around the throne of God in Isaiah, AND when sent from that heaven to punish the Israelites in Numbers..

Snakes do not have wings. But Isaiah states the Seraphim do. And it is Seraphim that God sends to punish the Israelites, THE SAME CREATURE AS DESCRIBED IN ISAIAH!

Chritians understood this for centuries, becsue there are nuerous pieces of religious art depicting the throre of God surrounded by Seraph dragons as described in Isaiah. And other scripture used by both Jews and Christians such as Encoh I and the Apocolypse of Baruch speak of these creatures in heaven, but now call them Drakons becasue these later texts were written in Greek.

Modern Christians turned the reptilian 'seraphim" into swan-winged, humanoid Christmas card angels becasue of the confusion over the evil dragon Satan. But if that were true, and the Seraphim were humanoid, then these Christma card angels would be flutering about the desert biting Hebrews.

And to remove all doubt, the Egyptians also acknowledged a winged serpent monster called the exact same name, a Seraph!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
drakonwick
Are you kidding? What part of the word FLYING don't you understand, as in Fiery Flying SerpentsI? Winged animals fly. Comman snakes do not. This is Precisely why serious Biblical scholars understand the Seraph is a winged reptilian creature that goes by the SAME NAME around the throne of God in Isaiah, AND when sent from that heaven to punish the Israelites in Numbers..

Snakes do not have wings. But Isaiah states the Seraphim do. And it is Seraphim that God sends to punish the Israelites, THE SAME CREATURE AS DESCRIBED IN ISAIAH!

Chritians understood this for centuries, becsue there are nuerous pieces of religious art depicting the throre of God surrounded by Seraph dragons as described in Isaiah. And other scripture used by both Jews and Christians such as Encoh I and the Apocolypse of Baruch speak of these creatures in heaven, but now call them Drakons becasue these later texts were written in Greek.

Modern Christians turned the reptilian 'seraphim" into swan-winged, humanoid Christmas card angels becasue of the confusion over the evil dragon Satan. But if that were true, and the Seraphim were humanoid, then these Christma card angels would be flutering about the desert biting Hebrews.

And to remove all doubt, the Egyptians also acknowledged a winged serpent monster called the exact same name, a Seraph!

There is no need to get so bent out of shape DC! I know exactly what those texts say.

In isaiah's vision he proceeds to describe the seraph with six wings, he does NOT say serpent in any form.

(Keep in mind this was a vision).

It is not until we read about the israelites being attacked in the wilderness that we see the word seraph in

conjuction with a fiery flying SERPENT. Some texts only say FIERY SERPENT, and there lies the crux as it

does not say flying. Therefore it could mean that these creatures were nothing more than venomous snakes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
churchanddestroy

DC, in Genesis the Judeo-Christian God creates man out of dust, and does it in his image. If the Judeo-Christian God really were a dragon, then why don't we look like dragons? We are, after all, made it his image.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.