Skepticism examined

[capeo]

No I'm not. Most people don't care as much as they would have you believe.

They wouldn't vote for a candidate that supported it. But that's ....hmmm

This is what I mean. The questions that I stated are different.

Asking someone "Do you support Gay Marriage" and asking someone "Do you care if two gay guys want to get married?" are two different things. I've asked a lot of people that question and most people I have spoken to don't care. They just don't want it shoved in their face.

I think we do have people that would not vote for a candidate that supported gay marriage but I think those same people would also vote for someone who said "I don't care if they get married"

Gay Marriage is one of my pet causes and has long been one looooong before it became the cause of the day.

But even I know a staunch opponent to Gay Marriage who would, I would wager, not care if the candidate didn't care.

I would like to believe that but it's not supported by how people vote. Even saying "I don't care if they get married" would destroy a conservative candidates chance of getting elected (or even getting the nomination for that matter).

[truethat]

I don't think so. Otherwise how did we get Clinton in office?

I'm not saying the majority don't care in their own lives. What I'm saying is that people deal with the choices that are thrust on them.

In other words the cake pie example (Hey I just realized that you and I both used pie and pi as an example each! How weird is that!!!)

In other words if you ask people Do you support gay marriage or not, people will probably say NOT. If you ask them if they don't care or don't know, most people DO care to some degree.

But if you ask people if they care what Bill Johnson and Bob Smith do in the privacy of their own lives most people don't care.

I mean seriously Ellen Degeneres is a very popular TV host and so was Rosie ODonnel, if it mattered that much to people I doubt they'd support these celebs.

Have you ever heard of NIMBY? Not in My Back Yard? I think this is more what most people care about.

What effects THEM. People are selfish.

[capeo]

Then they should teach it every year. If this is what is the heart of science it should be gone over and over until it sticks.

Yes you don't see people being able to figure out the area of a circle.

But that's not basic math. You won't find too many people who remember what an object of a preposition is off the top of their head is either.

But most people know how to do multiplication and how to write a sentence. So if this is BASIC to science, then it needs to be taught better.

I think everything needs to be taught better but there are a lot of problems facing public schools. Area of simple shapes and the basic scientific theory starts in grade 3 in California (it was the first curricullum I could find). That's earlier than I remember being taught it (I'm 32 so that was a little while back) so maybe it's getting better:

http://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/mthgrade3.asp

http://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/scgrade3.asp

Evolution isn't taught until grade 7 in earnest:

http://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/scgrade7.asp

[capeo]

I don't think so. Otherwise how did we get Clinton in office?

I'm not saying the majority don't care in their own lives. What I'm saying is that people deal with the choices that are thrust on them.

In other words the cake pie example (Hey I just realized that you and I both used pie and pi as an example each! How weird is that!!!)

In other words if you ask people Do you support gay marriage or not, people will probably say NOT. If you ask them if they don't care or don't know, most people DO care to some degree.

But if you ask people if they care what Bill Johnson and Bob Smith do in the privacy of their own lives most people don't care.

I mean seriously Ellen Degeneres is a very popular TV host and so was Rosie ODonnel, if it mattered that much to people I doubt they'd support these celebs.

Have you ever heard of NIMBY? Not in My Back Yard? I think this is more what most people care about.

What effects THEM. People are selfish.

I said a conservative candidate not a liberal democrat. No, for a liberal that's a strength in getting votes. I didn't say that applied to most voters, or even the majority of voters. It doesn't. But it does apply to most conservative voters. So much so a conservative candidate would have no hope of getting the nod if they were even indifferent to subject of gay marriage.

Also, speaking of Pi, why don't keyboards have the symbol for it? I was going to write out the equation for the area of circle in my other post but 3.14159*r^2 makes it look so complicated it would have ruined my point.

Edited October 7, 2007 by capeo

[antiaging]

http://www.realityspoken.com/skeptic.htm

This article and recent conversations I have had with people online have made me really think about what it means to be a skeptic.

I see all sorts of people who claim they are "skeptics" only to see that they treat Skepticism like its the same as cynicism. In the article above it states a very important thing:

What I've noticed on this site for example is that some of the most strident "so called" skeptics, will make claims that they run from when true skeptics bring the information to the table and it turns out the "skeptic" was wrong. They are not interested in being confronted with reality or the truth. They rather react as if being a skeptic, is the same as being a doubter or one who challenges religion specifically. And while that is one of the definitions of skepticism, its a weaker and less intelligent one in my book.

Another example of the "sacred cow" mentioned in the article is the way in which anyone who is skeptical about evolution, (meaning that they want to see it examined more carefully and are not swayed by supposition and theory) is regarded as a fool. Is this not in direct opposition of the scientific method?

Are you a skeptic that simply challenges the status quo? Or are you a true thinker? Would you be willing to put your own beliefs to the test. Or do you view being a skeptic as being skeptical about everything everyone else has to say and sure of what you believe?

Do you consider being a skeptic a position or a method?

What say you?

Being overly skeptical can be just as bad as not being skeptical enough. Both, can prevent you from finding the truth. Old philosophers like DeCartes and Sartre, were so skeptical they would look for a logical reason why they exist. I think, therefore I am, said one of them. To question something that is as obvious as they exist, is pushing skepticism to the point of being ridiculous.

Too much skepticism can prevent you from finding out the truth.

"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance!"

--Albert Einstein

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

--Herbert Spencer

[truethat]

Being overly skeptical can be just as bad as not being skeptical enough. Both, can prevent you from finding the truth. Old philosophers like DeCartes and Sartre, were so skeptical they would look for a logical reason why they exist. I think, therefore I am, said one of them. To question something that is as obvious as they exist, is pushing skepticism to the point of being ridiculous.

Too much skepticism can prevent you from finding out the truth.

"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance!"

--Albert Einstein

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

--Herbert Spencer

I love this one. I love it !

This is exactly what I mean about knee jerk reactions. When someone questions something its not always because they disagree with it.

[truethat]

I said a conservative candidate not a liberal democrat. No, for a liberal that's a strength in getting votes. I didn't say that applied to most voters, or even the majority of voters. It doesn't. But it does apply to most conservative voters. So much so a conservative candidate would have no hope of getting the nod if they were even indifferent to subject of gay marriage.

Also, speaking of Pi, why don't keyboards have the symbol for it? I was going to write out the equation for the area of circle in my other post but 3.14159*r^2 makes it look so complicated it would have ruined my point.

Errrr

You coulda just wrote Pi R Squared.

[Jodie.Lynne]

no, pie r round

brownies r square

[truethat]

Cute!!!!

[Jodie.Lynne]

sorry, but it just had to be said.

its almost a requirement.

[+Sherapy]

Baloney.

They aren't being taught correctly. Otherwise it wouldn't drop off when they left the classroom.

Their parents are not going to tell them the scientific theory is against God. Ok? Its only when evolution comes up that there is going to be a problem.

What irritates me in this whole thing is that as I said scientists will say "People don't even know the difference between theory and scientific theory"

So why not slow it down massively and really teach kids properly what science means. Then when they get home, the parents can say what they want and it won't matter.

See this all boils down to instead of teaching kids WHAT to think, teaching kids HOW to think.

Difference. Difference.

True it seems you have concluded that schools can't meet your creationist needs and kids that are attending "public' systems are being imposed or forced to adapt to the establisment and its ideas.....thats what the gist of this seems to be as far as i am concerend ..The precipice here IMO is that its an either or proposition and this in and of itself is in an incomplete understanding, the level of evolution you are spotlighting was bad and is recognized as bad science,( see scopes trial) or jsut a idea implemented in a way that is of little to no use other than to have these sorts of topics.. True once your kid realizes that mulsims come from baghad and are no diffenrt than the chrsitians that come from new york, and that no ones life is worth more or less than any other well these sorts of going nowhere argurments make even less sense.....

You know there are whys worth pondering beneath all the hows's..the intent of any debate is to interject a point of view to give a fuller awareness add to the whole not arrive at an answer (or a war of righteousness its all made up anyways)_........Isn't the question how are these ideas nurishing our children, this one isn't, in particular it creates rifts and division. that is how you contribute to the future a much better use for this sort of argument is to look deeply at how this is affecting the whole and in probing deeply we as a group may arrive at a place where we have a valid purpose or let it go....... one must look very deeply at the fights we are modeling for our children and why ???? As a educator this would be my concern even as a parent.... Just my two cents...

[truethat]

My creationist needs? I didn't even bother reading after that Sheri. Good job on proving my point yet again. I don't believe in Creationism. And uh YOU KNOW THAT so what the helll are you talking about?

Ok I did read it in fairness, and uh more of your Sheriblather about parenting again.

Not all Muslims come from Baghdad Sheri. My kids are Muslim from NY so eh?

[+Sherapy]

I wasn't inferring you did True, I was offering a synopsis of the debate in essence my POV really no biggie LOL ...Parenting for me is the most critical thing i am doing and my exploring my beleifs the belifs at large will have an impact on my paretning ( maybe i assumned that is why you bring in the archives of evolution just getting an understanding....eh???

I was extending a hand in freindship a probe along a differnt lines but as i can see you have passed fair enough.. carry on...

[truethat]

Sheri, by now you have to know that I'm not going to be doing hugs and friendships in the middle of a discussion?

That's so ICKY woman to me.

Shudders.

[+Sherapy]

Sheri, by now you have to know that I'm not going to be doing hugs and friendships in the middle of a discussion?

That's so ICKY woman to me.

Shudders.

Our depth of freindship isn' at that place i agree.... but, there is a mutual mental respect that is the place i was approaching....True i jsut be who i am and I want you to be who you are if the two pass or meet we go from there, you do not have to be a certain way in order for me to engage in a dialoge... I'm l flexible..but no problem the moment pased ..another time perhaps....

[Beckys_Mom]

"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance!"

--Albert Einstein

And if you investigate it..and still remain skeptical...you must have your reasons...everyone does in the end