Would There Be Peace If Thier Was No Religion

[Beckys_Mom]

Why don't you then say "organized religion" instead of religion. It seems to me religion stopped meaning spiritual belief at some point and started meaning churchgoing

Very good question north...why?? I never once asked that myself...I mean what is the big difference???

[northwest]

none from your point of view

[Buddharat]

Why don't you then say "organized religion" instead of religion.

It seems to me religion stopped meaning spiritual belief at some point and started meaning churchgoing

I don't normally say organized religion because I believe all religion has become organized, but for the sake of the arguement and the misinterpritation (on my part) that religion meant belief in god, I used organized religion. And if you'd prefer in the future, I can used organized religion from now on. And I do agree with you wholeheartedly that religion stopped meaning spiritual belief a long time ago.

[Beckys_Mom]

none from your point of view

what makes you say NONE from my POV??? if i asked the same question as you, then I am in the same boat as you lol

[Skim Milky]

lets just say that sometimes religious people start wars, ok?

[northwest]

I didn't ask what's the difference, that's your question.

I know the difference

The difference in modern-religion (and ever worse in medival) as it is organized in Roman Catholic church and similar establishments, is that you have an "elite" which read scriptures, come up with conclusions that best suit their agenda, and pass it down to priests, and priests pass it down to people, reading only fitting parts of scriptures.

You know I have nothing against people getting organized, if they read their Bibles and had meetings on Sundays discussing it , like people do on religious forums.

but the truth is most of these christians are not even familiar with scriptures they swear on and are not even free to come up with their own conclusions about them.

And when they wonder about something, they ask the local nun or priest, thinking they have some secret knowledge on the issue.

That's not THEIR faith it is someone else's faith which they listen to.

For me true religion, organized or not, is a personal insight into scriptures and having your own theology.

That way if you didn't get it right, you don't hurt anyone else. If one of these "elites" gets it right, he poisons the minds of millions.

[Beckys_Mom]

lets just say that sometimes religious people start wars, ok?

ok then....

poor skim...always does his best to get his point accross without stepping on toes....pity others didn't see this...

Skim...you are an intelligent christian..you know your stuff...and very decent to boot...keep it up skim

Only a fool would agrue with you lol

[northwest]

intelligent christian

lol, most would agree here that this is an oxymoron

Well I don't before someone attacks me, I'm just saying.

I just get the feeling that all the atheists here consider us believers to be total morons with IQ of 95

[oldchap]

I would think that the vast majority of people would just like to get on with their lives, its just the leaders ( politicians, Priests, clerics,) want to make trouble all the time, to fill their pockets, and feed their hunger for power,

[Beckys_Mom]

lol, most would agree here that this is an oxymoron

Well I don't before someone attacks me, I'm just saying.

I just get the feeling that all the atheists here consider us believers to be total morons with IQ of 95

I beg your pardon?

I think Skim is an intelligent christian....he has managed to do something that no other christian has done on here before..........he presented a thread on how christianity made a huge difference in the world....look at his thread history...you will seee..and how he was able to gather evidence that WAS NOT baised...to back up his claims..............I found his thread amazing to say the least

He is kind to others...he never judges me for not being christian....he understands me...so the least I can do is see things how he see's them

I would'nt post up anything about a person on line if i didnt really believe in it..................I will always get right to the point

there are other christians that are just as dandy as Skim....a few others....but lately Skim has his head above water and how anyone can argue with him is beyond me

I think its unfair to think that we non christians look at christians as dumb or having a low IQ...not fair at all

I say it how I mean it....

you on the other hand are somewhat like skim...but you tend to confuse certain things...sometimes its hard to understand the things you post...but I feel you mean NO harm...as for your IQ..i wouldnt say it is that low....

but i am only getting to know you

let me make myself clear....I wont jump on anyone for just being religious...NO....I only jump on those i find are arrogant or ignorant...this includes skeptics....if I agree with a christian...I wont be shy in saying so...same with the skeptics

Edited September 19, 2007 by Beckys_Mom

[truethat]

I think that people need to understand the difference between the Sacred and the Profane more if they think that it will only be peace with no religion.

Religion as a personal thing is a relatively new thing. Religion as a social structure with important things like sacred places (Jerusalem for example) is a whole different ball game.

Would there be peace? Well I'm not sure, I think most of the big Wars in the world are about territory and power not religion.

But religion definitely comes into play.

[+Link of Hyrule]

I'm sorry, but a lot of people are saying that the root of all wars is resources and money...but do you really think a suicide bomber is blowing himself (or herself to be pc) because they are getting money? People don't blow themselves up for money. They do it because they believe their God wants them too. I'm not saying all wars will end if religion ends, but it would seem that it would cut down on things like that.

The suicide bomber is blowing themselves up because someone who desires power or land or oil (usually all three) is using them as pawns in their selfish quest. The suicide bomber would not have done it had these selfish individuals not told them to, and those power-hungry individuals didn't do it to glorify their God, but their own desires.

So is that the fault of the religion, or of the person who used the religion?

[Buddharat]

The suicide bomber is blowing themselves up because someone who desires power or land or oil (usually all three) is using them as pawns in their selfish quest. The suicide bomber would not have done it had these selfish individuals not told them to, and those power-hungry individuals didn't do it to glorify their God, but their own desires.

So is that the fault of the religion, or of the person who used the religion?

I actually had a post right afterwards that explained just what you asked.

[Neognosis]

It's not only resources, I think fundamentalism does damage to relations between religious groups.

You'll note, however, that when there isn't a competition for resources, fundamentalists are generally ignored and disregarded. When resources come into play, they are taken more seriously and more people flock to them. Fundamentalism is a result of a competition for resources. Without competetition for resources, fundamentalists can't recruit as many other people, and their movements generally don't gather much momentum.

[Neognosis]

I'm sorry, but a lot of people are saying that the root of all wars is resources and money...but do you really think a suicide bomber is blowing himself (or herself to be pc) because they are getting money? People don't blow themselves up for money.

Without a competition for resources, there generally are no suicide bombers. Fundamentalist Hasidic Jews living in Crown Heights NY don't blow themselves up in the diamond district, or come to Utah and blow up Mormon temples. Becasue they are not descriminated against, they are doing well economically. They are 180 degrees oposite the Fundamentalist mormons, yet both coexist because they are not in competition for resources.

Keep in mind that we're also talking about WAR. There will always be disinfranchised and angry people who find religios fundamentalism as an outlet for their anger and lack of grounding. But war is always over resources. it's as simple as that.

[momentarylapseofreason]

What a simple question with no simple answer !

Religion has existed since our brains evolved to that level to even think about OURSELVES and how we felt so helpless in our natural enviroment.

The BIG when,where,how and why.

Communism may have well been a /quasi religion of sorts because the FOLK damn sure weren't in control and government authorities became THE GODS in place.

I mean look at N. Korea inside-the leader is GOD-it's insane. Did you see the undercover documentaries ?

What a nightmare !!

Edited September 20, 2007 by momentarylapseofreason

[Mystic-River]

no, no, and thrice times. no.

religion did not create the problems.

humans will always disagree and be pig-headed. always.

[Godofcats]

the world would not be free of violence and war if there was no religion....it would be the exact same, humaniods would just find something else to fight about, that is our nature. there would still be wars be crazed leaders and dictators over land, money, and most of all POWER. we would not be without violence either. violence is caused by drugs, money, crazed lovers, to much alcohal, qiet people you pick on who snap, and drunkin' bar brawls. to think religion caused wars is idiotic. go ahead ban religion people would still be fighting over something else.

to everybody who wants religion gone.....should we also get rid of males since we've started most the wars in earths history. should we suck the testosterom out of our bodys and cut our things of. should we ban alcohal since people die from the health risk, the people who drink and drive, and the violent effects it has on some people....i know that will never happen. ban guns but that won't help either...cuz if there were no guns and i wanted to kill somebody i can just go to my kitchen get a steak knife and stab the hell out of them.....and if there was no knifes and could just sneak up from behind and choke them to death.....VIOLENCE AND WARS WILL NEVER STOP AND IT AIN'T RELIGIONS FAULT.....IT'S HUMAN NATURE

haha that reminds me, anybody see that southpark episode when cartmen freezes himself for some reason and ends up being unfroze a thousand years from now. the whole world is atheist and they are having this big war over what the name of their atheist group would be called........man "science help us"

i wish i was a cat......damn humaniods

[momentarylapseofreason]

no, no, and thrice times. no.

religion did not create the problems.

humans will always disagree and be pig-headed. always.

May I ask you were they got their ideas ?

Who made the rules up to what actually sin is ?

People are told what is moral and what is not.

Religion HAS been used in a way that the end has justified the means.

Of course people themselves did it but an idea is inspired by something, is it not ?

[momentarylapseofreason]

the world would not be free of violence and war if there was no religion....it would be the exact same, humaniods would just find something else to fight about, that is our nature. there would still be wars be crazed leaders and dictators over land, money, and most of all POWER. we would not be without violence either. violence is caused by drugs, money, crazed lovers, to much alcohal, qiet people you pick on who snap, and drunkin' bar brawls. to think religion caused wars is idiotic. go ahead ban religion people would still be fighting over something else.

to everybody who wants religion gone.....should we also get rid of males since we've started most the wars in earths history. should we suck the testosterom out of our bodys and cut our things of. should we ban alcohal since people die from the health risk, the people who drink and drive, and the violent effects it has on some people....i know that will never happen. ban guns but that won't help either...cuz if there were no guns and i wanted to kill somebody i can just go to my kitchen get a steak knife and stab the hell out of them.....and if there was no knifes and could just sneak up from behind and choke them to death.....VIOLENCE AND WARS WILL NEVER STOP AND IT AIN'T RELIGIONS FAULT.....IT'S HUMAN NATURE

haha that reminds me, anybody see that southpark episode when cartmen freezes himself for some reason and ends up being unfroze a thousand years from now. the whole world is atheist and they are having this big war over what the name of their atheist group would be called........man "science help us"

i wish i was a cat......damn humaniods

Of course there will still be fighting and bickering but possibly less of it.

If the world were under one religion there may be less fighting too, don't know

[Furious Frank]

Someone said that 'Religion is the cause of wars.' I don't think so rather it detered it.

If everyone did as they please without account to thier actions to a higher being, more people would choose to do bad without remorse. To cause wars and maybe an end of life scenario.

I believe that religion was meant to be a social construct for worship. We humans have screwed it up by using it as a tool, or a weapon, or countless other scenarios to our own advantage. I believe it is necessary only when utilized properly.

Do not operate heavy machinery when practicing and attend only under the supervision of an adult.

[mako]

Believe it or not, I actually agree with Truethat...religion does have a bit of influence on war, but we would have war even without religion...just passing through and couldn't resist posting on this thread.

[Neognosis]

to everybody who wants religion gone.....should we also get rid of males since we've started most the wars in earths history.

I gree with your points about alternate causes for war. As I've said, war is about resources. However, Religion is the only thing I can think of that can give a reason for a good person to do unspeakably evil things and believe that they are acting morally and properly.

If you took away religion, they would have to come up with some other mechanism to facilitate the doing of evil by good people, perhaps fervent patriotism or nationalism or something else to fill that void.

I believe that religion was meant to be a social construct for worship.

I agree, but only partially. I believe that religion is meant to be a system for unifying and controlling a populations behavior, and worship is the mechanism behind that system.

People won't stop eating shelfish and pork and dying of parasitic infections? Tell them god forbids eating that stuff. People getting infections from sand and sweat accumulating under their forskins while they wandered the desert with little water to clean? Tell them God demands they cut their foreskins off.

[MissMelsWell]

Wars have always been about politics, land, and money (or resources), not religion. Religion is a convenient rally flag to gain the hearts and support of individuals. It's something people have in common that leaders can appeal to.

If religion didn't exist, wars might be more honest... "we're here to take your backyard and kill you because we want your stuff." Troops and support would be rallied through fear "If you don't follow our cause, we'll kill you too" ... Hitler and Chairman Mao were probably a good example of this kind of fear based leadership.

[Jodie.Lynne]

The suicide bomber is blowing themselves up because someone who desires power or land or oil (usually all three) is using them as pawns in their selfish quest. The suicide bomber would not have done it had these selfish individuals not told them to, and those power-hungry individuals didn't do it to glorify their God, but their own desires.

So is that the fault of the religion, or of the person who used the religion?

Answer: Both.

If religion, and its self appointed spokesman, were not taken so seriously throughout the ages; if people would stop attributing 'special' priveleges to the mouthpieces of god, then there wouldn't be the ample supply of people willing to follow their priests/imams/rabbis orders, no?