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Atheist God

Gay Marriage

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Siara

I hope that everyone here who opposes gay marriage realizes that by doing so you're saying the government has a right to revoke your rights if t doesn't like what you do with your lover.

Does that really seem appropriate to you? I can't get into explicit examples here since it's a family-friendly forum, but think about things you do with your partner. What if the government decided that something you were doing (using the wrong toy or whatever) wasn't moral and reacted by changing your tax status? Wouldn't it occur to you that your love life was no one else's business?

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SnakeProphet

Exactly. Why then, are you demanding to get paid for your love life? If you have no problem with your benefits, you have no problem with them knowing about it.

Tax benefits are there for a reason, and homosexuals aren't part of that reason.

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Bill Hill

Well, you have that story of the Texan who married his Horse... or that story of the Greek guy who married a water melon.

So, from that perspective- sure, Gay marriage can hold it's own.

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Unlimited

I'm just glad theirs no gay divorce..do you realize that most gays are not monogamous?...they chase butt like wolfs...i sa a study the average gay relationship lasts under a year...

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Bill Hill

Lets face it, the only reason the Gay rights movement wants to encourage gay marriages in a christian church is to 'antagonise' the christians.

If you go to the spirituality section of the UM there's always an debate featuring gays verses the christians and muslims.

But the logic is akin to....

"I believe in Tomato people who live on mars, yeah...yeah...bbbbut at least I don't believe in some old make believe-book"

It's quite comical to watch...

The Gay movement as a political entity only looks 'logical' when compared to religious fundamentals..

To show the illogicalness of their arguments- even the pedophiles have copied them and formed their own 'civil rights' movement.

NAMBLA... The North American Man/Boy Love Association.

oH dear... would be comical if it wasn't so sickening..

Perhaps, dare I say it, that we need religion to stop human's sexual fetishes from getting too out of control.

Edited by billyhill

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Bill Hill

I'm just glad theirs no gay divorce..do you realize that most gays are not monogamous?...they chase butt like wolfs...i sa a study the average gay relationship lasts under a year...

Ssssh you can't say that. :lol:

Inconvenient facts likes this do not appear to be welcomed in this thread.

Edited by billyhill

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moonlit12

The oh-so-common "separation of church and state" argument in the US is a lifesaver here for the churches. Gov cannot demand a church congregation legally marry homos if they are religiously opposed to the union just like the gov cannot force a church to perform a legal marriage for straights that they are opposed to. In this case, it is useful.

Gay marriage is I think just another way for the people of the world who consider themselves a minority to try and get special privileges. Think about it, if all the "minority" groups decided to demand what they feel is equal, it would be a mess.

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Lilith Immaculate

gay people fall in love and want to get married just like straight people do. Churches dont want to marry them because they think its a mortal sin or something (just guessing, i dont really know much about christianity nor do i care) but what do priests do when they find out that "rev bob" has been sodomising little boys for years? :td:

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Bill Hill

gay people fall in love and want to get married just like straight people do.

That's it.. when love enters the equation..logic goes out of the window.

The texan loved his Horse .. the Greek guy loved his watermelon...which incidently was shaped like a 'woman's butt.'

The age old question-What is love?

The science perspective-a chemical response to ensure procreation and the survival of the species?

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Unlimited
gay people fall in love and want to get married just like straight people do. Churches dont want to marry them because they think its a mortal sin or something (just guessing, i dont really know much about christianity nor do i care) but what do priests do when they find out that "rev bob" has been sodomising little boys for years? :td:

so because reverend bobs a pedophile; it makes it ok to change societal norms for a group of whiners...just pretend your married...at least they dont have squads who eliminate gays..like in some countries..

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Cradle of Fish
I'm just glad theirs no gay divorce..do you realize that most gays are not monogamous?...they chase butt like wolfs...i sa a study the average gay relationship lasts under a year...

I dont think I know one totally monogamous gay or straight person ever. Face it we're animals, we like sex, we have alot of it. I would like to see this study that about gay relationships, got a link?

gay people fall in love and want to get married just like straight people do. Churches dont want to marry them because they think its a mortal sin or something (just guessing, i dont really know much about christianity nor do i care) but what do priests do when they find out that "rev bob" has been sodomising little boys for years? :td:

People are trying to turn this into a church issue, when it really isn't. Churches have the right to not marry two people if they dont want to. But not all churches are anti-gay, there are plenty of liberal churches which would marry gay people, if it wasn't against the law.

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Lilith Immaculate
so because reverend bobs a pedophile; it makes it ok to change societal norms for a group of whiners...just pretend your married...at least they dont have squads who eliminate gays..like in some countries..

your missing my point, what i am trying to say is that the "church" refuse to marry someone in a healthy relationship (im my belief as long as the two love and respect each other and are doing no wrong to anyone whether they are gay or straight) but do they take the measures to see that peodophilia does not happen in churches? They critisize and verbally bash, and yes even kill and mame people who have a different sexual orientation but what do they do to their own who do worse?

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Lilith Immaculate
I dont think I know one totally monogamous gay or straight person ever. Face it we're animals, we like sex, we have alot of it. I would like to see this study that about gay relationships, got a link?

People are trying to turn this into a church issue, when it really isn't. Churches have the right to not marry two people if they dont want to. But not all churches are anti-gay, there are plenty of liberal churches which would marry gay people, if it wasn't against the law.

im not trying to turn it into a church issue, i'm just trying to say they have no right to judge when worse things happen under their noses. I know not all churches are anti - gay, but why make it against the law? Just because people think its wrong? or are offended by it? Jesus.... you would think there would be bigger important things to worry about

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Neognosis
QUOTE(Neognosis @ Sep 19 2007, 04:13 PM)

DISALLOWING homosexual marriage is the sign that our society has gone down hill.

Neo, sit down keep your brain warm, you cant actually believe that, surely.

Steve,

In fact, I do believe that. I consider bigotry and prejudice and an adherence to a magic book that came from a magic man in the clouds, even when it hurts actual, living, feeling, real people to be a sign of an immature and petty society that is likely unsustainable.

Like I pointed out, societies that tolerated homosexuality survived for far, far longer than our society and culture has even been in existance, yet for some stupid reason we think that a homosexual tolerant society is a sign of decline? History shows this to be a false assertion.

I'm curious to know why, despite the historical evidence to the contrary, you think that tolerating homosexuality is a sign of decline.

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libertyworld
I'm just glad theirs no gay divorce..do you realize that most gays are not monogamous?...they chase butt like wolfs...i sa a study the average gay relationship lasts under a year...

:tu:

I drove taxi for some years in a major city. A job that will teach you more about people than you ever wanted to know.

Some of what I learned, in general (as a "community") and acknowledging that there were some exceptions, (just not very many):

"Gay" is a gross misnomer. What that word actually means is about the last thing I would use to describe these people. I saw more anger and mean-ness and petty selfishness, (these first three especially toward each other) and miserable self loathing than in any other group by a factor of ten.

Open minded and tolerant are the last thing these people are. Never in my life have I witnessed more ultra-conformity and hateful, shallow, rigid bigotry than from these who are most accusing others of it.

"Just want to love their partner" is about the last thing on their minds. Just want to be a self indulgent SL** is far, far more often the truth.

Combine all these and many other ingredients (whatever you want) in a very small bowl. Add 1 large can of malignant narcissism that cares not the slightest about the children or long term social costs. Stir with anger. Add 1 large lump of compulsive sociopathological need to attack the norms of ones culture and bring it all down man! Whip with hysteria, not caring about what falls. Pour into anything that pleases you and bake with excessive substance abuse till dry and brown. Remove. Eat it all yourself till sick. Demand the right to call a homosexual union every bit as valid and worthy and functional and lasting a family as a real marriage and call ugly names any who oppose you radically re-defining the foundation and most ancient and sacred institution of civilization. For a moment, feel good about yourself.

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Unlimited
im not trying to turn it into a church issue, i'm just trying to say they have no right to judge when worse things happen under their noses. I know not all churches are anti - gay, but why make it against the law? Just because people think its wrong? or are offended by it? Jesus.... you would think there would be bigger important things to worry about

the church mainly the catholic church is extremely hypocritical....i think most priests are gay..but thats really not the topic here...the church just tries to mantain antiquated sociatal norms...

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libertyworld
the church mainly the catholic church is extremely hypocritical....i think most priests are gay..but thats really not the topic here...the church just tries to mantain antiquated sociatal norms...

Actually, the incidence of homosexuality among catholic priests is lower than in the rest of society, where it is already (an extreme minority).

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Siara
the church mainly the catholic church is extremely hypocritical....i think most priests are gay..but thats really not the topic here...the church just tries to mantain antiquated sociatal norms...

The Catholic church tries to force everyone into a heterosexual marriage because they want us all to spawn 10 more little Catholics. In addition to not being gay, you're not supposed to use birth control.

Edited by Siara

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Neognosis
I'm just glad theirs no gay divorce..do you realize that most gays are not monogamous?.

Neither are heterosexuals. And your assertion is also incorrect. The vast majority of Lesbian "lifetime" relationships outlast heterosexual "lifetime" relationships.

Just want to love their partner" is about the last thing on their minds. Just want to be a self indulgent SL** is far, far more often the truth.

That's a very ignorant post. Why would a group of people who just want to sleep around be pushing for the right to marry? I think you are coming from a very limited pool of cab customers who gave you this impression.

First off, how can you tell gays from straight people just from being in your cab? I suspect that you only visibly identified flamboyant and feminine gay men and/or masculine women. This belies your ignorance. I wager there were many, many gay men in your cab that you assumed were straight because they weren't displaying "more anger and mean-ness and petty selfishness." You must think that all gays act this way, and the one's that don't appear feminine or "trendy," well, they must be straight, right?

re-defining the foundation and most ancient and sacred institution of civilization.

You're also ignorant, apparently, about marriage as well. First off, prostitution is the most ancient instutition of civilization, not marriage. Second, for the vast, vast majority of human history, women had no choice about who they married and were considered property. Third, homosexual union was accepted and tolerated in most of the great civilizations of the world: Rome, Greece, Japan, a large amount of Native American societies, etc. etc.

Fourth, it wasn't until within the past three hundred years that the idea that a woman was not a commodity to be traded to increase one's status came into vogue.

so this "ancient and sacred instutition of civilization" really has only been around in its current form for a few hundred years. Before that women were property and didn't choose their partners. Is this what you mean when you say "ancient and sacred?"

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libertyworld
That's a very ignorant post. I think...

I suspect...

This belies your ignorance.

I wager... You must think that all gays act this way, and the one's that don't appear feminine or "trendy," well, they must be straight, right?

You're also ignorant, apparently, about marriage...

...has only been around in its current form for a few hundred years. Before that women were property and didn't choose their partners.

:blink:

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Neognosis

ignorance - the lack of knowledge or education

I apologize for the insulting connotation. I did not mean it that way, I only mean it in the literal definition of a lack of knowledge of education.

The man apparently is able to seperate homosexuals from heterosexuals by sight as they enter his cab. That is ignorance, and it is ignorance for him to think that only the homomsexuals being "petty and selfish and angry" were the only gay people he saw all day.

It just smacks of ignorance, the entire post from top to bottom.

Plus, he apparently is not aware--is ignorant-- that marriage was only between one man and one WILLING woman for not more than the past few hundred years, or that woman were bartered like cattle and marriage used as a vehicle for social climbing and political connection. he seems to think it has existed in its current form since antiquity. That is ignorance, a lack of knowledge and understanding.

Edited by Neognosis

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Stixxman
Looking this thread over I see that some people asked "why shouldn't gay people get married in a church if they want to?"

I would say that the church has a right to exclude people if they want to. I don't think it's Jesus' way but maybe they have that right. As long as they don't spend gay people's taxes by claiming to be non-profit and for the public.

Some times I wonder why gay couples would want to be married in the church of a congregation that hated them. It kind of reminds me of the quote about (conservative) Phyllis Shafley: "Phyllis Shafley, the woman who speaks for all women who don't believe in equal rights for themselves".

thats a really good point, you don't need a church to make a wedding any more valid.

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Siara

discussion of a scholarly article in the September issue of the Journal of Modern History

University of Chicago Press Journals

Are civil unions a 600-year-old tradition?

Sharing '1 bread, 1 wine, and 1 purse': The history of brotherment

A compelling new study from the September issue of the Journal of Modern History reviews historical evidence, including documents and gravesites, suggesting that homosexual civil unions may have existed six centuries ago in France. The article is the latest from the ongoing “Contemporary Issues in Historical Perspective” series, which explores the intersection between historical knowledge and current affairs.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/200...p-acu082307.php

--------------------------------

There is historical evidence that the church has condoned civil unions in the past. making their current attitude even more arbitrary.

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richclever
Yes it would be hypocritical.. glad you agree with me..

Yes it certainly would nothing to argue on there

That is debatable..whether or not they're confused. But it's good to see to can speak up for all of them.. even though you're not gay or a christian.

I'm not trying to speak for all of them that would be extremely patronising. I have know many gay people, and quite a few of them have been christian which is what I am basing my point on.

Maybe, but I'm not a Christian- but I can see you're trying to force me into that box

I'm not trying to force you into any box. I have never said you were a Christian as far as I am aware and I have no interest in what religion you follow if any. That is up to you,nothing to do with me in the slightest.

Let's face it.. I'm not.. so you understand it then? Explain away... let's see your subjective opinion.

What I understand is that people should be free to live their lives as they wish as long as it does not harm others and if you are going to stop them doing it or argue for others to stop them doing it you are obviously bigoted against them. If you also go onto say that if you are gay you can't be a christian then you obviously don't understand what it is to be gay or a Christian. I think I do because of listening to people rationally.

Funny that...Neither do I! but let's not confuse apathy for 'feel good' 'open mindedness'

You don't come across of being accepting of people lifestyles if you want to support the exclusion of them from something like Christianity.

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Neognosis
A compelling new study from the September issue of the Journal of Modern History reviews historical evidence, including documents and gravesites, suggesting that homosexual civil unions may have existed six centuries ago in France.

We also already know that homosexual relationships were a part of life for Romans and Greeks and many other societies. Some didn't even insist on characterizing a person as straight or gay, recognizing that sexual contact was not the defining characteristic of a person and that a person could have sexual contact with both sexes, and a lot of people did. It's hard to understand all of this if you can't remove the filter of our societal mores.

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