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The new British empire?


Mekorig

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Well, Argentina and a good deal of the UN dont consider this fair. In fact, the Argentinian gov dont recognize the goverment of the Islands like a independant goverment,but a part of the UK, soo they negotiate whit the UK, whit the bleesing of the UN.

I my personal opinion, i think the islanders cold be considered a part of the negotiations. Like it or not, there was an Argentine population, and the current population are colonialist bring to populate an argentine territory. BUt they also have a 174 years of history on the islands, so they could claim to be a part on the negotiations. For the moment, until the three parts give some terrain for negotiation, a solution can not be reached.

Moon Monkey, remmeber the city example i give.

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I my personal opinion, i think the islanders cold be considered a part of the negotiations. Like it or not, there was an Argentine population, and the current population are colonialist bring to populate an argentine territory. BUt they also have a 174 years of history on the islands, so they could claim to be a part on the negotiations. For the moment, until the three parts give some terrain for negotiation, a solution can not be reached.

Could be considered part of the negotiations ? That says it all really, the only other option is ethnic cleansing and we dont want that.

174 years colonisation versus 7 years colonisation....hmmmmm...and that doesn't even take into account disputed colonisation before 1820, such as the UK pull out in 1776.

Please, in a nutshell, tell us ...what do Argentina hope to get out of this ?

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ethnic cleansing? Are you nuts? Not even in the worst of the Military Junta it would be approved (but i dont deny that some extremist could have the idea, wich i found disgusting).

For the moment, the situation would be locked forever in an diplomatical stealtmate if all the parties dont change their action. When i read about all this i can see the Argentinian goverment (almmost all the goverments) like a guy putting his hands in his hears while he repeat loudy @The Malvinas are argentine!@, while the islanders are other guy also puting his hands in his hears, giving his back to the argentine guy while he also repeat loudy @I am independant but British!@, and the British guy whit a confused face, that when he want to give a rational explanation, is the focus of a stern look from the islander, and then say, @there is no discution about the Falklands@. No one gives terrain for a beginning of serious negotiations, and the simply wishfull thingking of Argentina enterely drooping their claim will not cause the country to do it.

I have some ideas for the beginning of a very long process that could end in a favourable ending for everyone, but now i have to go to the University, and these dammm new keyboard in my house its too hard to propely type a long post! gggrrrr.....just a tought, dont buy EQQUS keyboards.

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We want America back, it was take away from us by force, the American people can come in on the negotiations if the wish, but i doesn't matter if they don't.

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ethnic cleansing? Are you nuts? Not even in the worst of the Military Junta it would be approved (but i dont deny that some extremist could have the idea, wich i found disgusting).

For the moment, the situation would be locked forever in an diplomatical stealtmate if all the parties dont change their action. When i read about all this i can see the Argentinian goverment (almmost all the goverments) like a guy putting his hands in his hears while he repeat loudy @The Malvinas are argentine!@, while the islanders are other guy also puting his hands in his hears, giving his back to the argentine guy while he also repeat loudy @I am independant but British!@, and the British guy whit a confused face, that when he want to give a rational explanation, is the focus of a stern look from the islander, and then say, @there is no discution about the Falklands@. No one gives terrain for a beginning of serious negotiations, and the simply wishfull thingking of Argentina enterely drooping their claim will not cause the country to do it.

I have some ideas for the beginning of a very long process that could end in a favourable ending for everyone, but now i have to go to the University, and these dammm new keyboard in my house its too hard to propely type a long post! gggrrrr.....just a tought, dont buy EQQUS keyboards.

Negotiations for WHAT ?

Argentine claims for WHAT ?

The only thing I can see is an Argentine claim for sovereignty...with the drive to DECOLONISATION, I repeat WHAT is the point to any territorial claim anyway as the people who live there don't want it and, no I am not nuts, because the only way the Argentines can get what they want is if the Islanders also want it and that will never happen with the current inhabitants. It makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever and as much as you beat about the bush I cannot get a clear picture of where the Agentines see this going.

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We want America back, it was take away from us by force, the American people can come in on the negotiations if the wish, but i doesn't matter if they don't.

Precisely

"...still fighting wars that ended

500 years before"

Sad indictment on humankind. No wonder we're still not considered a sentient species in most parts of the galaxy ....

Of course, as far as the Falklands are concerned: Argentinian Govt wants them because of possible mineral rights; the UK Govt wants them because of possible mineral rights; and the Falklanders want them because it's their home and has been for generations..... Guess whose side I'm on?

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All sides (The Argentine, the UK and the Islanders) have valid claims for a reason or other. And plus that you have the political and economical interest behind each reclamation. Sadly, people from the three sides benefit from the current situation.

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All sides (The Argentine, the UK and the Islanders) have valid claims for a reason or other. And plus that you have the political and economical interest behind each reclamation. Sadly, people from the three sides benefit from the current situation.

It seems you are not going to give a straight answer to a straight question but I will ask one last time. In a perfect end-game where do Argentina see this going, what is it they want ?

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In a perfect world, the Argentine wants the islands back. The islanders are most welcome to be argentinians, or to remain british and move elsewhere. But note this is in a perfect world.

The most posible solution, in my own point of view, is a very long term plan whit lines similar to the "One country, Two Systems" of the Hong Kong deal whit China. Coorperation betwen the three sides until an arragement could be got.

Of course, another posiblity, wich i dont deny, is to declare the Islands independant, but no Argentinian gov, be its political alineation, would accept this wiouth a substancial gain for them.

Because if the current situation is mantained, it would be a perpetual stealtmate, not beneficial for anyone, except the ones i already mentioned. Poiticians most of them.

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In a perfect world, the Argentine wants the islands back. The islanders are most welcome to be argentinians, or to remain british and move elsewhere. But note this is in a perfect world.

The most posible solution, in my own point of view, is a very long term plan whit lines similar to the "One country, Two Systems" of the Hong Kong deal whit China. Coorperation betwen the three sides until an arragement could be got.

Of course, another posiblity, wich i dont deny, is to declare the Islands independant, but no Argentinian gov, be its political alineation, would accept this wiouth a substancial gain for them.

Because if the current situation is mantained, it would be a perpetual stealtmate, not beneficial for anyone, except the ones i already mentioned. Poiticians most of them.

So the Argentinians are attending UN decolonisation meetings in the hope that they can ethnically cleanse and colonise it themselves or the islanders can throw away 174 years and become argentinians. Hong Kong was leased, the lease ran out and it was handed back, the Falklands are not on a lease. As for the Argentinian government "accepting" their independence...from the UK.... :no: Unbeleivable how the UN works, IMO opinion Argentina has nothing to do with it at all.

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Its diferent points of view. For you, we have nothing to do. for us, its is a part of our nation that was taken from us and colonized by an foregein country.

Of course, personally i agree that the Islanders should be taken in count. Even has foregein settlers, they have live for 174 years in that islands, but if we allow it, any nation could take parts of our territory, expell the population and bring their people to live there.

This takes to another reason why this is still locked up.

If the UN fall in favour of the Argentina, a Pandora´s Box could be opened, whith countries reclaming territories to other countries all over the world (Cyprus comes to my mind has an example).

But if the UN gives the reason to the UK, this could also be a great source of problems has smaller countries would be upset by the desprotection the UN gives to them in front of past and present colonizer powers, that could donde the same strategy has the UK in the Malvinas/Falklands anywhere.

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I don't wish to sound unhelpful, but what - precisely - is the basis of the Argentinian claim on the Islands ? Argentina did not discover the islands. So far as I am aware, there has never been a self-suficient Argentinian civilian population there.

Meow Purr.

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Check the links in previous pages ships-cats. The discovery of the islands is still a very hot controversy among historians, whith the French, Ducht, Spaniards, English, and even the Chinese acording to a historian discovering the islands.

The Argentine claim is based that the French first settled the islands, and passed its sovereinity to the Spaniards. When we get the independency, the territory passed to us under the uti possidetis iure (another hotly discussed legal system).

Also the Argentine settled the Islands, but has the discovery of the islands, this is also a very discuted topic, whith both sides giving diferent versions.

To give you an example of that, check the spanish and english articles of Wikipedia about the Malvinas/Falklands history.

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Its diferent points of view. For you, we have nothing to do. for us, its is a part of our nation that was taken from us and colonized by an foregein country.

Of course, personally i agree that the Islanders should be taken in count. Even has foregein settlers, they have live for 174 years in that islands, but if we allow it, any nation could take parts of our territory, expell the population and bring their people to live there.

This takes to another reason why this is still locked up.

If the UN fall in favour of the Argentina, a Pandora´s Box could be opened, whith countries reclaming territories to other countries all over the world (Cyprus comes to my mind has an example).

But if the UN gives the reason to the UK, this could also be a great source of problems has smaller countries would be upset by the desprotection the UN gives to them in front of past and present colonizer powers, that could donde the same strategy has the UK in the Malvinas/Falklands anywhere.

How about the UN coming down in favour of the people who live there ? you think they should be taken into account I think they are all that counts.

The Falklands was never part of your nation it was a colony for 7 years and it doesn't matter who discovered it, do Italy claim North America due to Columbus, the Dutch don't ask for New York back, the French accept Canada isn't theirs anymore... facts on the ground are as they are. Argentina itself is a nation that was taken from others and colonised by a foreign country, you want to have your cake and eat it. If it is ok for you it is ok for the islanders the only difference is the Islanders haven't taken an indigenous peoples land from them. I doubt many of the indigenous "Argentines" had ever even heard of the Falklands. I don't think your point that if you allow it any nation could take part of your territory is relevent in this situation at all, its 2007 not 1807.

I am sorry to keep this thread going in circles but I really don't get it, there are currently no Argentinians living in the Falklands and haven't been for 174 years, to come down on Argentinas side the UN Decolonisation committee would have to decide that the Falklands should be a new Argentinian colony...surely thats the job of the UN Ethnic Cleansing and New Colonisation committee. There is absolutely no chance on earth of Argentina getting what they want, let it go and talk about economic ties that benefit everyone.

Edited by Moon Monkey
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I dont know why you insist that the aregntina want to create a colony and make ethbic cleansing. In any of my words of the Argentine gov words were mentioned the "Ethnic Cleansing" you mention.

I also feel this is a circular argument, whith me giving an explanation of the origin of the conflict, and why still perdure, and you beign blinded by your blatant nationalism.

Belive what you want Moon Monkey, you are not worth discussiing in a civilizated way. I almost prefer the crude antagonism of Billy.

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In a perfect world, the Argentine wants the islands back. The islanders are most welcome to be argentinians, or to remain british and move elsewhere.

I dont know why you insist that the aregntina want to create a colony and make ethbic cleansing. In any of my words of the Argentine gov words were mentioned the "Ethnic Cleansing" you mention.

I also feel this is a circular argument, whith me giving an explanation of the origin of the conflict, and why still perdure, and you beign blinded by your blatant nationalism.

Belive what you want Moon Monkey, you are not worth discussiing in a civilizated way. I almost prefer the crude antagonism of Billy.

Remain British and move elsewhere = ethnic cleansing.

How is me wanting the wishes of the Islanders themselves to be granted either uncivilised or nationalistic. Should they wish to become an Argentinian colony I would not be in the slightest bit bothered.

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I'm curious Mekorig. Does an Argentinian citizen have any rights of residency or employment in the Falklands, as things currently stand ?

Also.... is there a great deal of tourism between Argentina and the Islands ?

Meow Purr :)

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Has you say Moon Monkey, has you say.

ships cat: So far i know, the only way an Agentine can enter the islands is like a tourist. The only way to get to the islands is boat, or airp[lanes from the UK and Chile. It could be air travel to Argentina, but the Islander Council totally deny the posibility. The islanders have almost totally shut themselfs to South America, beign the only contact whith the continent Chile. Has per argentinians actually living in the islands, there are all couples of islanders or other british citizens living there has far i know.

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Interesting... so any tourists would - realisticly - have to travel to Chile in order to visit the Islands.

Hmm... I tried to get information on Google about this, but it wasn't very satisfactory. Apparantly in 2003 the Argentinian government refused to allow Chillian commercial (inc tourist) flights to transit through Argentinian airspace en route to the Falklands, which seems rather petty. In addition, I came across this 2004 article...

The UK government says the Falklanders must be involved in the flight negotiaions between Argentina and the Mount Pleasant airport in the Falklands/Malvinas, but Argentine Foreign Minister Rafael Bielsa maintains that ' “We talk to Great Britain. We don’t talk to Crown subjects who inhabit Argentine territory”'.

source

I didn't find anything about the Falkland Islander's position on the issue - do you have anything on that Mekorig ?

Meow Purr.

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In this moment i dont have the article, altough i remember the Argentine offering the UK to have fliyings from Argentina and the Islanders redusing that option, wich translated in a UK decline of the offer.

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