Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
promKing

Car that runs on water

191 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Torgo

Oh and a note on "zero-point energy" - its not what most people think.

What it is is the fact that there is a lowest energy state that space can exist in, and that this energy state is not zero energy. Nevertheless it's called the "zero point" because it's the lowest point that can be reached. The Casimir Effect is the most well known manifestation of the phenomenon - if you put two parallel plates EXTREMELY close together (we're talking an atomic radius) they will feel an attractive force because the space between them cannot contain the same density of particles as the space outside them because only particles with a wavelength smaller than the space between them can exist there (quantum physics can be weird - yes particles have wavelengths). In any case there is no known way to extract this zero-point energy - again according to the laws of thermodynamics in order to get usable energy you need to drop something else into a lower energy state. This is all fine and dandy for, say, burning hydrocarbons. You take the high-energy hydrocarbon bonds and oxygen-oxygen bonds and make carbon-oxygen bonds and hydrogen-oxygen bonds which are lower in energy and keep the difference. But there is no lower state to drop the space containing zero-point energy TO. It is FUNDAMENTALLY the LOWEST state achievable. You CAN'T drop it any lower, at least with any known process we have today.

And again, I find it hard to believe that one chemical reaction out of trillions would create this effect especially if it has never been observed elsewhere, and that if it did it would escape the notice of real scientists. Zero point energy is an overhyped and overused idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BELOWIM

Torgo "Oh and a note on "zero-point energy" - its not what most people think. " Exactly, could not have said it better!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
promKing
soldierspy "Actually there is a car that runs on water,very well.Will the powers that be even let this car become reality?... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb8wIqECwGE

I just watched this video, so it is possible after all, no matter what anyone say, because this guy made it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moon Monkey

I watched that "who killed the electric car" video last night and I just wondered if charging a car for 8 hrs for 100 miles worth of a trip is actually 'enviromentally' more friendly than simply sticking a couple of litres of petrol into it due to loses in electric transmission and the fossil fuels that are burnt (generally) to provide the electricity in the first place.

Personally I am waiting for something like Doc Brown had on the Delorean in B2TF 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
promKing
I watched that "who killed the electric car" video last night and I just wondered if charging a car for 8 hrs for 100 miles worth of a trip is actually 'enviromentally' more friendly than simply sticking a couple of litres of petrol into it due to loses in electric transmission and the fossil fuels that are burnt (generally) to provide the electricity in the first place.

Well you can charge your electic car at home while you sleep. Take a look at this electric car that should be available soon. http://www.teslamotors.com/

*Charge At Home or On the Road*

Plug your Tesla Roadster into its at-home charging unit, and you'll be fully charged in about 3.5 hours. But we consider this a "worst case" for someone starting with a completely dead battery. Even after a 100-mile trip, you can be completely charged in less than two hours.* And should you need to charge on the road, packed away in the trunk is an optional mobile-charging kit that lets you charge from most standard electrical outlets while away from home.

Edited by promKing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moon Monkey
Well you can charge your electic car at home while you sleep. Take a look at this electric car that should be available soon. http://www.teslamotors.com/

Yes I know that but that electricity will have been created in most places by the burning of fossil fuels and once you take transmission losses into account as well, what I am asking is are they more environmentally friendly (which is what I thought the point was) than just sticking a couple of litres of gas into your normal car ?

Actually that was on the FAQ'S of the car in the link (looks ok btw) however its hardly independent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Torgo
I just watched this video, so it is possible after all, no matter what anyone say, because this guy made it.

You can't trust the news! People defraud others! One has to understand what is possible and what is not before blindly accepting what other people SAY they have done. No scientist has ever under close examination violated conservation of energy. THIS MAN IS LYING IF HE SAYS THIS IS AN ENERGY SOURCE.

* edit *

Sorry for the tone of this one, didn't want it to sound like that.

*end of edit*

Edited by Torgo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
aztek
You can't trust the news! People defraud others! One has to understand what is possible and what is not before blindly accepting what other people SAY they have done. No scientist has ever under close examination violated conservation of energy. THIS MAN IS LYING IF HE SAYS THIS IS AN ENERGY SOURCE.

i'd take his word over yours anyday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Torgo
i'd take his word over yours anyday.

I apologize for my overly terse and seemingly silly most recent response - I was running late for class but felt like I had to say something. In retrospect it was not the best response.

I just watched this video, so it is possible after all, no matter what anyone say, because this guy made it.

I will attempt to say what I said in a calmer and more rational manner.

You honestly CAN'T trust the news when it comes to science stories. The people who report on them are often ignorant of the basic principles of the field they are investigating, know nothing of the scientific method, and are thus easily misled and prone to draw incorrect conclusions. In addition, the news channels are prone to overhype or sensationalize things in order to hold the interest of the lay public and keep ratings. Examples abound - the out-of-proportion reaction to the discovery of a large terrestrial planet in another solar system a few months ago comes to mind. The news outlets were calling it "habitable" - when in reality while it's probably made of rock, its gravity and position means it is likely a hothouse world like Venus. The hype about hydrogen cars also comes to mind - they call it an answer to energy problems when it just moves the problem of generating energy to power plants instead of car engines. The media is also prone to turn potential science stories into "human interest stories" - they LOVE the plot of the little guy with some revolutionary technology not recognized by the establishment. If they investigated some of these more I'm certain most of these stories would never make it to air.

One of the reasons scientific literacy is vitally important is to avoid frauds and scams. Someone can make a claim that under close examination makes no sense, but hide it in scientific-sounding terms or otherwise convince someone to believe them rather than the scientific establishment (which, while never perfect, is at least self-correcting over time). All free-energy schemes fall into this category, as does homeopathy, astrology, creationism, and a goodly number of other ideas. The most BASIC principles of chemistry dictate that one cannot get energy from a process that has the SAME THING as its only input and only output - in this case, water. One can store energy but nothing more. All of chemistry falls apart if a single reaction can be found to reproducibly violate this. I know most people here won't believe me when I say this, but I'll say it: there has NEVER been a reaction discovered that violates this rule (the conservation of energy). Oh sure someone might measure an oddity once - but thats called EXPERIMENTAL ERROR. There is never a reproducable defect that is not eventually explained by an error in the experiment. And AGAIN, I find it hard to believe that one single reaction would violate something which holds up so well under ALL other circumstances, and that if this effect really existed it would go unnoticed by real scientists. In fact there would be a rush to understand where the excess energy was coming from, and in my OPINION, eventually a mechanism would be discovered to account for where it was coming from (WHICH WOULD MEAN IT WAS NOT COMING FROM NOWHERE AND SOME SORT OF CHANGE WAS HAPPENING TO THE REACTANTS).

My immediate first thought is fraud or scam when several of the following things line up:

1) A result which defies one of the most well-confirmed laws of physics

2) The person expounding the concept is making a personal profit/other benefit from having others believe it

3) The person expounding the concept goes through the channels of the news media and/or internet rather than accepted scientific journals

4) The person proposes RADICALLY new physics to explain it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BELOWIM

Torgo, I,m not even going to quote the rubbish you call an explanation! Scientific establishment indeed! I suppose my replication's and countless other's of Tesla's Radiant Energy Theory/device is pure BS to you, and YOUR establishment. I,m tired of pure BS and dictarship, go and do something usefull like getting the Twenty thousand plus (20,000)+ patents locked up in a vault for National Security reasons,LOL. And thats only One country! Where oh where do you think Electricity come's from? And if you truelly believe we make it then show me the Formula! There is more Energy in Water than Just about anything else!!! I don't know where you live but at my shop's water is being sold at twice the price of petrol! Now when every one has to do that, sure you,ll be allowed to run your car on it!!!!!!!!! I and countless other's are already burning water, I only use it as a supplement to fuel in two different way's on the same vehicle... The other guy up the road used only that, but then he's not around any more! One day he and his car fell of this world never to be seen again!! There's YOUR Establishment!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Torgo
I don't know where you live but at my shop's water is being sold at twice the price of petrol!

Out of curiosity... where do you live? Where I live water comes out of the tap in the wall for less than pennies per gallon.

Where oh where do you think Electricity come's from? And if you truelly believe we make it then show me the Formula!

Could you elaborate on what you mean by this question?

Here is the reaction that produces electricity in lead-acid batteries:

Half reaction one: Pb (solid) + SO4 (2-) (dissolved) --> PbSO4 + 2 electrons (each with energy associated with them)

Half reaction two: PbO2 (solid) + SO4(2-) (dissolved) + 4 H+ + 2 electrons --> PbSO4 (solid) + 2 H20

Total reaction: Pb + PbO2 + 2 SO4 + 4 H+ --> 2 PbSO4 + 2 H2O

The electricity is the flow of the electrons from one side of the battery where half reaction one takes place through a wire into the other side of the battery where half reaction two takes place.

There isn't really a "reaction" that generates power in generators other than a heat engine driving a turbine, which moves a magnetic field across a wire and generates a current.

Edited by Torgo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Torgo
I suppose my replication's and countless other's of Tesla's Radiant Energy Theory/device is pure BS to you

After looking this up a bit ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiant_energy theres a picture partway down, various images from google, etc) it looks entirely plausible. The antenna/plate/whatever that pokes up would be hit by electromagnetic radiation/other particles/atoms/whatever and develop a static charge (probably positive from electrons being knocked off) that would build up and be stored in a capacitor. Its a far less efficient way to collect radiant energy than, say, solar panels, but it would certainly work. If you call this free energy you also have to call standard photovoltaics free energy as well.

Edited by Torgo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Strange F8
After looking this up a bit ( <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiant_energy" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiant_energy</a> theres a picture partway down, various images from google, etc) it looks entirely plausible. The antenna/plate/whatever that pokes up would be hit by electromagnetic radiation/other particles/atoms/whatever and develop a static charge (probably positive from electrons being knocked off) that would build up and be stored in a capacitor. Its a far less efficient way to collect radiant energy than, say, solar panels, but it would certainly work. If you call this free energy you also have to call standard photovoltaics free energy as well.

Let's just drop the term "Free Energy" for now. The fact is that if we want progress in the field of energy production, we can't settle for business as usual thinking. We need to look at things in new ways. OK, so we can't get energy for free, but we can acheive greater and greater efficiencies. We might even possibly break the stranglehold of the powers-that-be that keep us from seeing any real progress. Torgo, you have a scientific mind, what kind of outside-the-box ideas do you have? Its not enough to just say something can't be done, we need to know what can be done other than what is obvious is not working very well. I'm sure you must have some interesting ideas.

Edited by Strange F8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
promKing
Yes I know that but that electricity will have been created in most places by the burning of fossil fuels and once you take transmission losses into account as well, what I am asking is are they more environmentally friendly (which is what I thought the point was) than just sticking a couple of litres of gas into your normal car ?

Actually that was on the FAQ'S of the car in the link (looks ok btw) however its hardly independent.

You can make electricity very cheap and clean in nuclear power plants. And even if they were made by burning fossil fuels they would be environmentally friendly (at least that is what they say in the movie) and cheaper.

As of independence of the electric car in the movie we are also introduced with the electric cars that need to be fueled every 300 miles, which is pretty independent. There is also more info on wikipedia about electric car. Not to mention that electric car was invented at the same time as oil powered car.

Of course I don't think that electric car would please everybody's needs but a lot of people would drive it if it was more available. Because I don't know if there is a place you could buy that car which is a real shame because when you think about for instance in L.A. people are every day warned that they should not go out because air pollution is to high and toxic to breathe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BELOWIM

Nice Reply Strange F8, this should all be happening in my thread Future Energy, but were here so let's go, Torgo I asked for THE Formula for Electricity, not some random chemical Reaction! GIVE me THE FORMULA for everyday Electricity? Radiant,Rock, Earth, Lightning< whatever? Not some vinegar metal reaction? Now you state magnetic field across a wire generates current? Elaborate Please! I want Scientific Evidence/Formula You know actual Mathamatical equation's, Now take your Time because Your gonna be busy finding this? I did'nt Spend years researching great people for nought. Hint, Search engines are the greatest tool in the World. Even these Great mind's had problem's with what they were/are dealing with. Also get out of Wiki in your searches! As I,ve stated before, I only wish to work WITH people not against...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
aztek
Now you state magnetic field across a wire generates current? Elaborate

lol, i,d like to hear that one too.

if that was the case, you'd get electricity by just replacing steel core of el. magnet with a permanent magnet, it doesn,t work, i tryed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BELOWIM

aztek it works see Faraday<>Tesla, Stubberfield, + MORE, Nice question!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
aztek
aztek it works see Faraday<>Tesla, Stubberfield, + MORE, Nice question!

it didn,t work for me, guess time to go back to the drawing board.

here is what i did, may be you can find a mistake, a 1\2 inch rod 5 inches long(the size of the magnet i had, poles are on the ends) wound wire around the rod(wraped wax paper on the rod first), tested, el. magnet worked, took the rod out, and put in the same dimentions magnet, hooked to voltmeter, no power.

you think if i used magnet with poles along the sides, it would work?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Torgo

A couple topics in one post:

GIVE me THE FORMULA for everyday Electricity? Radiant,Rock, Earth, Lightning< whatever? Not some vinegar metal reaction?

Uh... what? Electricity is not a substance, it is a flow of electrons from an area of negative charge or high energy to an area of positive charge or low energy.

here is what i did, may be you can find a mistake, a 1\2 inch rod 5 inches long(the size of the magnet i had, poles are on the ends) wound wire around the rod(wraped wax paper on the rod first), tested, el. magnet worked, took the rod out, and put in the same dimentions magnet, hooked to voltmeter, no power.

you think if i used magnet with poles along the sides, it would work?

The key is not the presence of a metal wire in a magnetic field, instead it is moving that magnetic field across the wire. For all you trying this, connect a wire coil to a meter and grab a bar magnet, and move the magnet in and out of the coil like a piston. You'll generate a current!

I do not remember the exact math... but I remember the concepts from my highschool physics classes. Firstly, any moving electrically charged particle generates a magnetic field. In a permanent magnet this comes from the angular momentum of electrons inside the atoms of the material - in most materials they all cancel out but in some they can line up and reinforce each other. An electron moving through a magnetic field experiences a force perpendicular to the direction of the magnetic field, proportional to its speed through the field. You can also turn this around - a moving magnetic field will accelerate an electron inside it. This is how almost all electrical generators work - a heat engine drives a turbine connected to some permanent magnets. These rotate and sweep their magnetic fields along wire coils and accelerates the electrons inside them, generating a current. This is how all standard electrical generators work, except solar panels and a few weird nuclear things that are mostly used on space probes.

OK, so we can't get energy for free, but we can acheive greater and greater efficiencies. We might even possibly break the stranglehold of the powers-that-be that keep us from seeing any real progress ... what kind of outside-the-box ideas do you have?

I'm thinking of moving this into the future energy thread (I have a bit of a response for the circular generator thingie from that thread ready too)... quick summary before I hop on over there though:

- Greater end-use efficiency, especially in heating and cooling living spaces.

- New solar panel technology.

- Exotic biofuels.

- A closed nuclear fuel cycle that generates very little waste and uses new-generation reactor designs, which have the potential to have far less risk of accident.

- SOLAR POWER SATELLITES

- Ocean thermal power

- Solar thermal power

Hop on over to the future energy thread for more on these.

Edited by Torgo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Never Here
You can't trust the news! People defraud others! One has to understand what is possible and what is not before blindly accepting what other people SAY they have done. No scientist has ever under close examination violated conservation of energy. THIS MAN IS LYING IF HE SAYS THIS IS AN ENERGY SOURCE.

* edit *

Sorry for the tone of this one, didn't want it to sound like that.

*end of edit*

You havent the ability to see into someones mind,right?So how do you KNOW that this is bull?Maybe he see's something you dont,something you missed.And he has NOT BEEN DEBUNKED.He has in fact,been moving forward on this amazing instrument.To say he's lying just because YOU dont understand how it all works,is tantamount to saying Einstien was wrong cause you cant follow his way of thinking.Obviously it's the one's who do think differently who ultimately make the the most amazing discoveries.Wich,escapes your grasp at the moment.It dosent take a team of scientist,the govt,and a bunch of big wig oil guys to debunk someone who is full of it.So far,none of them have.So sorry that not only is it possible,but yes,you can get 100 miles on 8oz of water!Understand this:No one from any sector of the govt,or any scientist would even waste thier time if it was B.S.So far they havent backed away from him,they are in fact working on a deal.If he was lying,im sure all those people wouldnt even be around,giving him the time of day.They would have washed thier hands of him and his B.S. long ago.So again,show me the PROOF that he's lying....Myself,and the U.S GOVT await your response.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BELOWIM

Torgo, you are full of it, and I don,t mean Energy,LOL, I Asked you A simple Question? You could,nt deliver! Why Not? you no research? You your Establishment doe,snt know? I asked for a Scientific Formula for Electricity? Now while were here I,ll also ask for an ENERGY RATING for water(H2O)??????????????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
aztek
Torgo, you are full of it, and I don,t mean Energy,LOL, I Asked you A simple Question? You could,nt deliver! Why Not? you no research? You your Establishment doe,snt know? I asked for a Scientific Formula for Electricity? Now while were here I,ll also ask for an ENERGY RATING for water(H2O)??????????????

i,ll take a wild guess, magnetic field and spin motion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BELOWIM

aztek "i,ll take a wild guess, magnetic field and spin motion." Funny one,LOL, BuTT We should try to stick to the subject Matter,LOL, Which IS H2O(H2O) FUEL,GO JUICE,...I,ll Add aztek you are right in some ways, Butt the point was at the right TIMING,.Good onya>>Not the end of this subject! Water to Burn!...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Atheist God
sorry for resurrecting this but something that runs on water with only water as a byproduct is impossible. You CAN use water as a hydrogen source - using some other form of energy to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen and using the hydrogen as fuel either by burning it or putting it through a fuel cell. HOWEVER, SPLITTING the water takes JUST AS MUCH energy as you get when you oxidize the hydrogen again. The water cannot be an energy source, just a way of STORING it as hydrogen.

I agree water by it's self in it current liquid state cannot be used. However if you run a strong current through the water it will produce hydrogen gas which can be used in an internal combustion engine.

In reality using the diffusion process as a way of powering a car is a viable solution. I am experimenting with this myself on an old car i got for $200, I am trying different plans I have made up for the diffusion of water via electrical current with a decent amount of success and I am ready to build a prototype fuel tank and electrical power system. The internal workings of the car are of course modified for example it now has several alternators and car batteries and the engine needed some modification as well, I no longer use the fuel injection system this has been disabled as the hydrogen which is currently just a tank of hydrogen is no pumped directly in the air intake. The alternators along with constantly charging the batteries will provide enough electrical power to diffuse the water in the tank.

The gas tank will be replaced with a fiber glass mold reinforced of course to prevent damage and is air tight as well. It need to be air tight to maintain constant pressure and prevent hydrogen leakage.

The current design I am fooling around with makes the water appear as if it is boiling.

The water can be poured where you used to pour your gas however the cap has been modified with a custom seal to keep in the tiny hydrogen atoms and prevent leakage as well.

==

All in all my pet project has been turning out quite nicely and I expect to have all the bugs and current technical challenges overcome by the end of this coming June. I have to make sure it is safe enough not to explode. Aside from that people will look under your hood and say WTF or that people will look at you funny when you fill your tank with a garden hose the car will perform just as well as a gas powered car.

This project is coting me quite a bit of cash too for R&D as I've had to employ outside help for various things I simply don't have the time or tools for. I am about up to 15k now on this car which happens to be an old K car wagon from the 80's.... Yeah I know I could have picked a cooler car but it was $200, green and had almost no rust at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Torgo
I agree water by it's self in it current liquid state cannot be used. However if you run a strong current through the water it will produce hydrogen gas which can be used in an internal combustion engine.

In reality using the diffusion process as a way of powering a car is a viable solution. I am experimenting with this myself on an old car i got for $200, I am trying different plans I have made up for the diffusion of water via electrical current with a decent amount of success and I am ready to build a prototype fuel tank and electrical power system. The internal workings of the car are of course modified for example it now has several alternators and car batteries and the engine needed some modification as well, I no longer use the fuel injection system this has been disabled as the hydrogen which is currently just a tank of hydrogen is no pumped directly in the air intake. The alternators along with constantly charging the batteries will provide enough electrical power to diffuse the water in the tank.

I take it you're getting the current to run through the water from the car batteries, correct?

I'm just curious. If you are splitting the water with the batteries, aren't you limited to the energy stored in the batteries?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.