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promKing

Car that runs on water

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Perdition

Hydrogen cars exist, as far as i know Honda leases them out for 6 months at a time. The nice thing about them is the fuel to air ratio where gasoline is about 14, hydrogen is around 21 i believe. Im not sure how the car works, either combustion or the cell-thing.

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promKing

Hydrogen cars exist, as far as i know Honda leases them out for 6 months at a time. The nice thing about them is the fuel to air ratio where gasoline is about 14, hydrogen is around 21 i believe. Im not sure how the car works, either combustion or the cell-thing.

Yeah Honda fcx clarity fuels with hydrogen and turns it into electricity to power it's electric motor. It takes 4.1 liters (1.08 gallons) of liquefied hydrogen and drives about 450 kilometers (279 miles) whiteout re-fueling.

Edited by promKing

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questionmark

I love these modern fairy tales. Rule number one is that energy can be neither created nor destroyed, only transformed.

And you need no "Joe Cell". All you need is to convince your local BMW rep to get you one of his companies experimental cars. They been running cars on hydrogen for the better part of the last 20 years in mass tests. But nobody expects to see any of those cars in a showroom until oil either gets much more expensive or there is none left. It is just too expensive to split water and then use the product as fuel.

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DieChecker

Yeah Honda fcx clarity fuels with hydrogen and turns it into electricity to power it's electric motor. It takes 4.1 liters (1.08 gallons) of liquefied hydrogen and drives about 450 kilometers (279 miles) whiteout re-fueling.

From what I have read it costs about four times as much to make a liter of hydrogen, as it does to make a liter of gasoline. So in your example the cost is equal to 4 gallons of gas, or about 70 mpg. Which is good, I guess, but not super-mondo. Plus you have the extra problems of storage and purchasing the fuel, but on the plus side it is much more environmentally sound.

Or... you could just skip the fuel altogether and get a electric car. Safer, just as clean running, just as fast, just as much range. You chose. B+ grade for hydrogen car, or A+ for electric car.

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Br Cornelius

From what I have read it costs about four times as much to make a liter of hydrogen, as it does to make a liter of gasoline. So in your example the cost is equal to 4 gallons of gas, or about 70 mpg. Which is good, I guess, but not super-mondo. Plus you have the extra problems of storage and purchasing the fuel, but on the plus side it is much more environmentally sound.

Or... you could just skip the fuel altogether and get a electric car. Safer, just as clean running, just as fast, just as much range. You chose. B+ grade for hydrogen car, or A+ for electric car.

Very good :tu:

The Hydrogen Car dream was so obviously flawed from the start, the only explanation I can come up for its popularity was that those who promoted it were Oil company Stooges (such as George Bush) and they never mean't it to represent any threat to their main interest-oil. It was always a distraction from the real alternatives such as electric cars which have been proven and could readily be rolled out today -and really do represent a threat to both government tax revenues and oil company profits. This is obvious.

If myself as a lowly scientist of no particular expertise in the field could spot this obvious flaw within a few hours of studying the hydrogen dream - how much more obvious must it have been to the specialist engineers who have been working on this fantasy for the last 20yrs.

Br Cornelius

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promKing

But the thing is that Honda fcx clarity is electric car but instead of having lithium battery it has hydrogen. Problem with electric car is it's lithium battery that is few hundred kilograms heavy. Hydrogen car on the other hand has motor almost the same as gasoline cars. I know that car is expensive but that's because it's not serial production like let's say Rolls Royce. On the other hand Hummer is also very expensive but a lot of people drive it because (according to documentary "Who killed electric car") government has a program of relieving taxes so that a lot more people can afford it.

But the question remains could home made hydrogen be efficient to be let's say run in some sort of car motor or similar to produce enough electricity for a home? I mean in upper videos that I posted you can see guy doing just that but it is not clear how the process works.

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ships-cat

<sigh>

This is just a hydrogen car. It has a hydrogen cylinder instead of a fuel tank. The hydrogen is burnt to produce electricity which charges - A LITHIUM BATTERY.

You cannot produce hydrogen at home to fuel this car; it requires a specialist refuelling pump. (which currently does not exist commercially in the UK)

Hypothetical production of hydrogen by sunlight splitting of water would NOT power this vehicle, or indeed anything larger than a matchbox toy car, unless you live on the planet Mercury.

meow purr :)

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DieChecker

But the question remains could home made hydrogen be efficient to be let's say run in some sort of car motor or similar to produce enough electricity for a home? I mean in upper videos that I posted you can see guy doing just that but it is not clear how the process works.

I think it is reasonably clear that you can make milli-liters of hydrogen at home, maybe a liter over a couple days, then use that to power a car for maybe 150 kilometers.

If you don't mind a giant explosive construct in your garage, and you are very mechanically inclinded, and detail oriented and if you don't mind loosing more in savings to your electric and heating bills then you make up for in your car fuel, then a hydrogen car may be for you.

If you want something that will not explode your house, requires all you do is plug it in at night and takes less maintenance and no mechanical talent, then look to a electric car.

Edited by DieChecker

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promKing

You know back in 2005 I asked a physicist on allexperts.com could we make a facilities that would use solar panels and wind mills for electricity needed for electrolysis that creates hydrogen from water?

And this is what he answered

A. Yes, on Earth this would become feasible once gasoline prices reach about the $7.00 per gallon mark. Then the hydrogen extraction process would cost less than drilling for crude oil and then refining it into gasoline.This process would still take some time and and a change in our culture and energy infrastructure. It would also be resisted by most oil companies.

But unfortunately link is not active anymore as you can see

http://www.allexperts.com/answerv.asp?QuestionID=4105297

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EllJay

First I thought the thread read- Cat that runs on water

..so I thought of this >>

jesus.jpg

...then I realised it said CAR, so I thought of the recent claim, where scientist said they could make a car that runs on water...but only water from the Mexican Gulf ;)

Revive John Searl and throw some cash at him, soon we will all ride along in magnetic-driven UFO´s. :w00t:

Anything but oil or nuclear power will suffice, and we need it yesterday.

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promKing

Sure but everything seems impossible until someone makes it. For instance just few days before Wright brothers flew with their airplane for the first time newspapers were writing that humans will not fly in next million years and same goes with almost every innovation. With trains, orbital flight, missiles (when V1 missiles were falling on GB in WWI in USA scientists were talking how missile are impossible to make) or atoms or you name it.

I'm just watching how newspapers are skeptical about Kevin Costner's oil separator and Costner himself is saying how much government and oil companies were uninterested in not just "his" invention but all other oil cleaning systems that were never developed because there weren't sponsors to back it up.

That's because everything innovative today looks far fetched or fairytale or lie... I mean can you imagine if someone said to Tesla that his ideas were impossible we wouldn't have electricity in our homes today but it would only be reserved for few rich people. In the past if people needed something they would make it. Today people just wave their hands and say "It's impossible." and they are considered smart because they know it can't be done but in the past people who would actually do "the impossible" were considered smart not vice versa.

And who is to blame the people when every day newspapers are filled with articles like "Scientists discover teleportation or bacteria that eats plastic or cure for cancer" etc. that we never hear again and which sound like science fairy tales. So when you hear "Kvin Costner has oil separator that cleans water from oil" of course you file it with the rest of those fairy tale articles and can not conceive that something like that can relay function. It seems impossible.

So if clean energy was seriously taken under consideration, that people started investing money in it instead of pointless wars we wouldn't have this problems that we have now with pollution and energy shortage.

Edited by promKing

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Br Cornelius

Sure but everything seems impossible until someone makes it. For instance just few days before Wright brothers flew with their airplane for the first time newspapers were writing that humans will not fly in next million years and same goes with almost every innovation. With trains, orbital flight, missiles (when V1 missiles were falling on GB in WWI in USA scientists were talking how missile are impossible to make) or atoms or you name it.

I'm just watching how newspapers are skeptical about Kevin Costner's oil separator and Costner himself is saying how much government and oil companies were uninterested in not just "his" invention but all other oil cleaning systems that were never developed because there weren't sponsors to back it up.

That's because everything innovative today looks far fetched or fairytale or lie... I mean can you imagine if someone said to Tesla that his ideas were impossible we wouldn't have electricity in our homes today but it would only be reserved for few rich people. In the past if people needed something they would make it. Today people just wave their hands and say "It's impossible." and they are considered smart because they know it can't be done but in the past people who would actually do "the impossible" were considered smart not vice versa.

And who is to blame the people when every day newspapers are filled with articles like "Scientists discover teleportation or bacteria that eats plastic or cure for cancer" etc. that we never hear again and which sound like science fairy tales. So when you hear "Kvin Costner has oil separator that cleans water from oil" of course you file it with the rest of those fairy tale articles and can not conceive that something like that can relay function. It seems impossible.

So if clean energy was seriously taken under consideration, that people started investing money in it instead of pointless wars we wouldn't have this problems that we have now with pollution and energy shortage.

The will be new and unexpected energy sources in the future - tapping energy reserves hitherto unimagined. What is almost certain, from the physics of the situation, it will not be water or hydrogen.

Br Cornelius

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Blizno

Sure but everything seems impossible until someone makes it. For instance just few days before Wright brothers flew with their airplane for the first time newspapers were writing that humans will not fly in next million years and same goes with almost every innovation. With trains, orbital flight, missiles (when V1 missiles were falling on GB in WWI in USA scientists were talking how missile are impossible to make) or atoms or you name it.

I'm just watching how newspapers are skeptical about Kevin Costner's oil separator and Costner himself is saying how much government and oil companies were uninterested in not just "his" invention but all other oil cleaning systems that were never developed because there weren't sponsors to back it up.

That's because everything innovative today looks far fetched or fairytale or lie... I mean can you imagine if someone said to Tesla that his ideas were impossible we wouldn't have electricity in our homes today but it would only be reserved for few rich people. In the past if people needed something they would make it. Today people just wave their hands and say "It's impossible." and they are considered smart because they know it can't be done but in the past people who would actually do "the impossible" were considered smart not vice versa.

And who is to blame the people when every day newspapers are filled with articles like "Scientists discover teleportation or bacteria that eats plastic or cure for cancer" etc. that we never hear again and which sound like science fairy tales. So when you hear "Kvin Costner has oil separator that cleans water from oil" of course you file it with the rest of those fairy tale articles and can not conceive that something like that can relay function. It seems impossible.

So if clean energy was seriously taken under consideration, that people started investing money in it instead of pointless wars we wouldn't have this problems that we have now with pollution and energy shortage.

Nonsense! Lots of very smart people are working furiously to make money from every possible method of obtaining, storing and using energy. If it is possible to make any money from any such method, armies of smart people are working furiously to do so.

This fantasy that all people are too stupid to take advantage of the many innovations that so many on this thread say are obvious needs to end. OF COURSE every single viable technology has been investigated and every viable option is or has been vigorously investigated.

I'm sorry to burst the bubbles of so many fantacists that they and they alone know how to solve the world's energy problem and that everybody would be so much better off if they would only believe.

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Solid Skeptic

Unfortunately, the car only appears to run on water from the Gulf of Mexico.

Edited by Solid Skeptic

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DieChecker

A. Yes, on Earth this would become feasible once gasoline prices reach about the $7.00 per gallon mark. Then the hydrogen extraction process would cost less than drilling for crude oil and then refining it into gasoline.This process would still take some time and and a change in our culture and energy infrastructure. It would also be resisted by most oil companies.

Agree. It would be possible, but still energy inefficient compared to electric cars.

The wide spread dispersal of such technology would doubtless be absorbed by the very oil companies that were being replaced. They already have the distribution and fueling stations in place. In stead of Big Oil, we would have Big Hydro corporations, and doubtless the fuel would be taxed and of course the corp needs a large profit, so possibly we are looking at $10 a gallon, $15 a gallon?

I'm just watching how newspapers are skeptical about Kevin Costner's oil separator and Costner himself is saying how much government and oil companies were uninterested in not just "his" invention but all other oil cleaning systems that were never developed because there weren't sponsors to back it up.

Got a link to that Kevin Costner story? Sound interesting. I'll google it later if you don't post it.

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Perdition

I just saw a Top Gear episode today they did on the Honda Hydrogen car. The dude said the hydrogen cost as much as gasoline and to produce it equaled the cost of drilling deep into the earth for oil.

As for as i know in my city theres only 1 hydrogen fueling station, but i dont know its price.

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