Would it be so bad if there wasn't a God?

[Kevin A.]

Kelvin, I get the feeling that you have a rather vigilante idea about how to scour the world of bad people. Dangerous. Your definition of ‘bad people’ may not sync with what their family’s is. And who are you to judge? This easily can lead to lynching of a suspected paedophile, suspected terrorist, suspected any-evil-doer by your personal definition. And what if you make a mistake? True our leaky justice systems let loose almost-certain murderers for lack of evidence; our media wishes to be Fair so terrorists get airtime with their bloody executions and raving. Making a stand is Good and takes immense courage, vide the Burmese people, the Iranian Christians, the victims of big business.

No, not a vigilante idea at all. One vigilante soon finds himself dead or imprisoned after mostly just killing people. That and you kill one bad person and another fills in their place right quick. This wouldn’t work at all. My idea is a world full of problem solvers and action takers, not wishful thinkers and hopers. To have people stop, think, look at the facts and actually do something about the problems. Band together to fight, by any means necessary, the corruption, injustice, greed and evil that exists in the world. Sure its not a perfect idea but its better than what we are currently dealing with.

A vigilante creates a world where bad people just increase the security around them but still exist. People banding together to fight instead of relying on some cosmic referee creates a world where these people can not exist, for long at least.

It is Kevin btw….

Care to give us your definition of bad people? Just curious because according to my definition you would have a lot of killing to do, in my estimation at least half the world’s population (do you have the stomach for this). It would be interesting to see you pull that off. BTW can you look to see if I am on your bad people list?

I believe pres Bush tried a variation of your idea, and we can see that it isn’t working out to well. Take out one bad guy (Sadam) and thousands of other bad guys rush in to fill the vacuum. Anyway keep us posted on your progress, and please excuse me if I don’t wish you luck.

Bad people is just a really general way of saying the corrupt, the unjust, the greedy, criminals, murderers, rapists, molesters, people who infringe on others freedoms and on from there. I never mentioned killing really though if a lot of these “bad people” knew their very lives(or what ever they truly value) were on the line, not in the hands of a biased judicial system, they would certainly choose another path through life and make amends for past transgressions.

No, Bush didn’t really try a variation of my idea. You can not take one bad guy out and expect that position to stay vacant for long. It will be filled in one form or another.You have to create an environment that smothers out any bud guys. An environment that does not allow these people to rise up and take power. One that does not allow these people to exist.

Lets face it, its not going to happen. This type of world requires acknowledging there is no god and that we have to act and not rely on hope and prayers. Not belief systems or religions. We only act on what we know and not what we believe. It takes people thinking and doing for themselves. Again, its not going to happen. Not for a long time at best.

Kevin A.

[Compline]

Kevin A : … My idea is a world full of problem solvers and action takers, not wishful thinkers and hopers. To have people stop, think, look at the facts and actually do something about the problems. Band together to fight, by any means necessary, the corruption, injustice, greed and evil that exists in the world…. This type of world requires acknowledging there is no god and that we have to act and not rely on hope and prayers. Not belief systems or religions. We only act on what we know and not what we believe. It takes people thinking and doing for themselves….

Hi Kevin. Your idea is excellent and you should never become discouraged or cynical because ANY good that you are able to accomplish with it adds to the total good that many like-minded people have been trying to bring about for a long time.

My thinking is much more restricted, like trying to see how a single wronged man can regain his reputation; how a village of half starved people with almost no access to education can be helped … when the country is building skyscrapers and the top 5% is worth billions [how much does a family need in three lifetimes?]; how the forest is being denuded because concessions have been sold to greedy people who think nothing of killing the odd objector and bribing their way into the profits they will make; how to get $15,000 together for one child’s essential medical fees where there is no insurance or medical aid system in place; how to provide care to three autistic children and back-up for their parents who are just earning enough to cover bare expenses.

The world is huge and there are 4+ billion people. Each one and individual. You will need all the friends you can get. If not friends, then like-minded people. And people come with baggage, even the best of them. Why reject any of them, if they happen to believe in God? Like anyone else they will work hard and long to bring about the just society you are working towards. Sure they may take time to meditate or pray, so what? You may take a fag or joint break or just go for a jog – to each his own. Motivation comes in all packages.

God does not need to be acknowledged. What makes you think that people who believe in God merely hope and pray? Most of the schools and hospitals in the world were started by religious orders. Many of the people who are generous donors to charities or volunteers doing sterling work are of one religion or another. You have to begin somewhere: just take anyone who will work hard with the same idealism. They will tolerate the fact that you are agnostic, or even a militant atheist.

[evancj]

Kevin A : … My idea is a world full of problem solvers and action takers, not wishful thinkers and hopers. To have people stop, think, look at the facts and actually do something about the problems. Band together to fight, by any means necessary, the corruption, injustice, greed and evil that exists in the world…. This type of world requires acknowledging there is no god and that we have to act and not rely on hope and prayers. Not belief systems or religions. We only act on what we know and not what we believe. It takes people thinking and doing for themselves….

Hi Kevin. Your idea is excellent and you should never become discouraged or cynical because ANY good that you are able to accomplish with it adds to the total good that many like-minded people have been trying to bring about for a long time.

My thinking is much more restricted, like trying to see how a single wronged man can regain his reputation; how a village of half starved people with almost no access to education can be helped … when the country is building skyscrapers and the top 5% is worth billions [how much does a family need in three lifetimes?]; how the forest is being denuded because concessions have been sold to greedy people who think nothing of killing the odd objector and bribing their way into the profits they will make; how to get $15,000 together for one child’s essential medical fees where there is no insurance or medical aid system in place; how to provide care to three autistic children and back-up for their parents who are just earning enough to cover bare expenses.

The world is huge and there are 4+ billion people. Each one and individual. You will need all the friends you can get. If not friends, then like-minded people. And people come with baggage, even the best of them. Why reject any of them, if they happen to believe in God? Like anyone else they will work hard and long to bring about the just society you are working towards. Sure they may take time to meditate or pray, so what? You may take a fag or joint break or just go for a jog – to each his own. Motivation comes in all packages.

God does not need to be acknowledged. What makes you think that people who believe in God merely hope and pray? Most of the schools and hospitals in the world were started by religious orders. Many of the people who are generous donors to charities or volunteers doing sterling work are of one religion or another. You have to begin somewhere: just take anyone who will work hard with the same idealism. They will tolerate the fact that you are agnostic, or even a militant atheist.

Who would decide who is bad? Who would be the judge of the bad? What would you do to the bad as punishment? We’re not talking just a few hundred people here; the bad would number in the billions. You would have to overthrow governments, big businesses, religious organizations, and whole populations. How would you ensure new bad people would not fill the vacuum?

[Compline]

'evancj' Who would decide who is bad? Who would be the judge of the bad? What would you do to the bad as punishment? We’re not talking just a few hundred people here; the bad would number in the billions. You would have to overthrow governments, big businesses, religious organizations, and whole populations. How would you ensure new bad people would not fill the vacuum?

Think this is for Kevin to answer, as it is his ideal that he put forward.

But back to the topic, since I believe there is a God and the world is clearly in a terrible mess, I think we should each do his best to clear up the mess. What is the alternative, do nothing? There are already people working to overthrow oppresive governments eg Burma, businesses [keep alive the scientists who are working on a viable power substitute so the oil companies and the Middle East will no longer be all-important], holding to account miscreant priests and raving imams etc. Since administration is not in their hands, nor money nor power it's worse than an uphill task. And none of us can claim to be 'without sin' enough to decide on 'bad', so we are on a vicious circle of having to rely on agreed laws that evolved, in the hands of a judiciary we do not entiely trust.

Let us pray ....

[The_Atheist_Mind]

unfortunatly, the whole religion topic is what keeps us apart. if there was no religion, there would be no wars. the reason the aztecs attacked? to get victims for their human sacrifices. the reason the terrorists attacked the US is because they wanted to kill christians and other religious people. and non religious people, athiests are not excluded from this sadly. religion causes wars, wars cause death, death brings life, and life turns to religion. its a vicious cycle. if anyone needs anything explained plz pm me or something because i dont get to post much.

[momentarylapseofreason]

unfortunatly, the whole religion topic is what keeps us apart. if there was no religion, there would be no wars. the reason the aztecs attacked? to get victims for their human sacrifices. the reason the terrorists attacked the US is because they wanted to kill christians and other religious people. and non religious people, athiests are not excluded from this sadly. religion causes wars, wars cause death, death brings life, and life turns to religion. its a vicious cycle. if anyone needs anything explained plz pm me or something because i dont get to post much.

I would say religion and peoples greed cause wars-

Some kill for god -some kill for money

Right now the fanatic religious and the greedy war mongers have clashed > they are both ruthless>and WE are all

deer >standing in the middle of the road blinded by the headlights >frozen in place, unable to react quick enough to get out

of the way

Edited October 30, 2007 by momentarylapseofreason

[Jor-el]

unfortunatly, the whole religion topic is what keeps us apart. if there was no religion, there would be no wars. the reason the aztecs attacked? to get victims for their human sacrifices. the reason the terrorists attacked the US is because they wanted to kill christians and other religious people. and non religious people, athiests are not excluded from this sadly. religion causes wars, wars cause death, death brings life, and life turns to religion. its a vicious cycle. if anyone needs anything explained plz pm me or something because i dont get to post much.

Politics, the Quest for power and a self agrandizing ego is what causes wars my friend, the rest is just flavouring.

[BazookaTooth]

Life without a god is excellent.

I have been living with out a god for all of my adult life and I find it quit wonderful and exhilarating, much better than living under the specter of religious suffering, disparity, fear and intimidation. And contrary to what some on this site think I have not reverted to rape, murder, thievery, or other socially unacceptable activities.

Pretty much summed it up,. The world we live in is the world without a god.

[momentarylapseofreason]

Pretty much summed it up,. The world we live in is the world without a god.

Living in a world without people who behave as if they are GOD........... now that would be wonderful and exhilerating

[Jor-el]

Living in a world without people who behave as if they are GOD........... now that would be wonderful and exhilerating

Now that I can agree with and relate to... Good catch!!