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Saudi Arabia Won't Include US $ in OPEC Talks


Spurious George

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If your far-left wing dream came true of the USA collapsing, you do realize Canada would be the first nation to sink with the ship? Never to mind the illegal immigrants you love so much would poor into the nation and economicaly destroy it.

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The Straw Man says, "Well jeez, I just cant seem to come up with a worthy rebuttal to that superior argument!"

:P

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The Straw Man says, "Well jeez, I just cant seem to come up with a worthy rebuttal to that superior argument!"

:P

That was an oxymoron in itself.

Not to mention the entire US system is built around a Global-Capitalist vision of profit and greed and this recent downward spiral that the US is on could be part of that vision.

If you seriously have a better economic solution to Capitalism... then I would like to hear it. Socialism, communism, Fascism? What is your economic system of choice?

The problem isn't capitalism. The problem is that America doesn't use the Gold Standard. Thankfully things are looking bright for Ron Paul. If we stopped giving these donations to Africa and third world nations, and if we backed our currency up by gold, lowered taxes, and not particpate in these wars, then there would be nothing wrong with the economy.

And in the event of an economic collpase of America, it will become apparent what the future of Canada would be. The border between the two nations can not be moderated in any way. The Canadian economy and government will fall shortly after.

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And in the event of an economic collpase of America, it will become apparent what the future of Canada would be. The border between the two nations can not be moderated in any way. The Canadian economy and government will fall shortly after.

American arrogance thinks the world would fall apart without it :yes:

The world will adapt to the emerging new economic powerhouses... Canada will become an economic powerhouse. Those with resources will continue to sell them to countries that need them... Chinese demand for energy will not dissappear because the US economy got flushed down the crapper :)

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Pressure on Arabs to sever US dollar pegs

WHEN central bankers in the Middle East say they have no plans to end their fixed exchange rates to the dollar, the currency market hears the opposite.

Merrill Lynch & Co predicts either the United Arab Emirates or Qatar will cut their dollar peg within half a year. Standard Chartered plc says the six Gulf Co-operation Council nations need to raise the value of their currencies 20%.

The difference between the price of the Saudi Arabian riyal and the cost of buying it in a year using forward contracts has widened tenfold since October as traders bet the kingdom will sever its 21-year-old link to the dollar, according to Bloomberg data.

"The dollar peg is doomed," said Jim Rogers, chairman of New York-based Rogers Holdings and a former partner of hedge fund manager George Soros.

The gulf countries, which supply 22.2% of the world's oil, according to BP plc, are under pressure to abandon their fixed exchange rates after the dollar tumbled 10% against the euro this year. OPEC members Venezuela and Iran want to price more crude in other currencies.

Inflation in the region is accelerating at its fastest in at least five years because central banks follow US Federal Reserve policy.

The ties are already weakening. Kuwait dropped the dinar's fixed exchange rate in May and the currency has strengthened 4.5%.

UAE central bank governor Sultan Bin Nasser al-Suwaidi said last week that his country, a federation of sheikhdoms, may change its policy. The plan was "not to drop the dollar peg but maybe to reduce it to a basket which will consist of more dollars, but not totally 100%", he said in South Korea.

Gulf states will jointly discuss a proposal to revalue their currencies at a summit in Doha, Qatar, on December 3-4, the secretary-general of the Gulf Co-operation Council, Abdul Rahman al-Attiyah, said in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Bahrain, Oman and Kuwait are also members of the council, known as the GCC.

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The more I hear from around the world the more in favor of isolationism I become.

Their governments and media have to keep them occcupied while they are doing dirty business behind their populations backs.

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Keep in mind that Venezuela and Iran hardly represent the leadership of OPEC. That particular Saudi shot-across-the-bow was probably a way to prevent Chavez from getting up on the podium and pounding on how the Imperialist US is stealing oil from the oil-producing nations of the world and Preventing Socialism in Venezuela.

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Haha! Well, I guess that "isolationism" idea is the one that triggers the downslide of dollars :D . Look around, Americans, a big and powerful nation just like US will certainly needs a second opinion from another country, otherwise it will run amok on its own.

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The US does not have enough resources to sustain itself

And you do?

... oh but you said North America, so you meant Canada has enough resources to sustain America? Not by paying us with a worthless currency... careful what you wish for ;)

If such a decision were up to you, Id worry. But it isnt , so I wont. And dont get yourself worked up into a lather to quick over the weakening dollar. I still recall the US and Canada trading (for decades) when the loon was lower in value to the dollar.

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Canada and the U.S. will be trading for as long as we all live. There is no worry there. The tables might turn though as the Canadain dollar holds par. There are both good and bad but over all the U.S. will not tank. Goods and services in the states will go up and the price of comodities will increase as will fuel costs and the like. Just as Canada had to deal with a dollar worth 65 cents the U.S. might have to for a bit as well. I see posts her that depict a 1930's type scinario for the U.S. and I just can't see that. What McDumbDumb bomb keeps posting is anti American and why he gets the jollies off it I don't know, but it is very short sighted. The U.S. is going to be around for a long time to come.

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I say its a wakeup call to stop from getting into wars and grow up

I think your right. Any war drivine economy can't last. Look at the Soviets and now the American's war pays, but only to those invested in the war.

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I think your right. Any war drivine economy can't last. Look at the Soviets and now the American's war pays, but only to those invested in the war.

Certain companies make big profits but doesn't the spending of billions of dollars of taxpayer's money kind of balance out any overall profit that the country would make?

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And in the event of an economic collpase of America, it will become apparent what the future of Canada would be. The border between the two nations can not be moderated in any way. The Canadian economy and government will fall shortly after.

In the unlikely event of an economic collapse in America , Canada would just start trading more with the EU or China , we all like to make fun of

politicians but they're not that short sighted!

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argh, wrote a long reply but lost it due to technical difficulties.

so short but sweet:

The U.S. might be able to sustain itself, but the reason countries trade with each other is because of absolute and comparative advantages of production. Some things are just more efficient to manufacture in China, and some things in the U.S.. Isolationist policies would force the United States to produce itself things that are simply smarter to produce elsewhere. You might also keep in mind that the U.S. productivity of labor is very good by international standards. In addition to that, the U.S. has (or atleast had) large amounts of capital it can invest to where growth is faster. The problem with the current situation is that U.S. consumption has grown faster than productivity. Common sense tells us that that can not be sustained forever.

Personally I hope for a gradually depreciating dollar. The world is going to suffer for the past consumption orgy, but with a gradual depreciation we can still avoid a depression. Eventually the depreciated dollar will feed U.S. exports and reduce imports, and the U.S. will once again become a more competitive country. I don't think switching to the euro for oil trade is going to be a long-term solution, since it's likely that the Euro is going to experience similar pressures at some point. I'd assume that some kind of currency basket with weighted averages of many major currencies would be the most stable solution for oil trade.

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argh, wrote a long reply but lost it due to technical difficulties.

so short but sweet:

The U.S. might be able to sustain itself, but the reason countries trade with each other is because of absolute and comparative advantages of production. Some things are just more efficient to manufacture in China, and some things in the U.S.. Isolationist policies would force the United States to produce itself things that are simply smarter to produce elsewhere. You might also keep in mind that the U.S. productivity of labor is very good by international standards. In addition to that, the U.S. has (or atleast had) large amounts of capital it can invest to where growth is faster. The problem with the current situation is that U.S. consumption has grown faster than productivity. Common sense tells us that that can not be sustained forever.

Personally I hope for a gradually depreciating dollar. The world is going to suffer for the past consumption orgy, but with a gradual depreciation we can still avoid a depression. Eventually the depreciated dollar will feed U.S. exports and reduce imports, and the U.S. will once again become a more competitive country. I don't think switching to the euro for oil trade is going to be a long-term solution, since it's likely that the Euro is going to experience similar pressures at some point. I'd assume that some kind of currency basket with weighted averages of many major currencies would be the most stable solution for oil trade.

The problem is simple..it's the same as during the civil war...china has slaves we dont. that's it in a nutshell you cant compete!...hence the dollar suffers while the yuan runs up..china has free labor...state owned factories..the world economy will never work!...unless the playing field is leveled..that means you ! changing to be like them...

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The problem is simple..it's the same as during the civil war...china has slaves we dont. that's it in a nutshell you cant compete!...hence the dollar suffers while the yuan runs up..china has free labor...state owned factories..the world economy will never work!...unless the playing field is leveled..that means you ! changing to be like them...

I don't understand the last sentence, care to elaborate?

You say china has slaves, I say the cost of labor is far cheaper in China than in the U.S.. Thats true, and it's true because China is a far less developed country wtih a far lower level of welfare. It is interesting that you talk about leveling the playing field though - because I tend to think the playing field is actually rigged in the favor of the U.S. and us European countries. We promote the free movement of capital, meaning we can invest in developing countries and benefit from their growth in terms of getting returns for our investment, but we don't promote the free movement of labor, which would allow those "slaves" to come and work in our country and benefit from our wage level (which would of course lower our wages and "level the playing field"). Capitalism without free movement of labor essentially favors those with capital (in economic theory "production" is seen as a combination on capital and labor).

Also, you lament the running up of the yuan while the dollar "suffers". If only the yuan would run up your problems would be largely solved. Had the chinese government allowed its currency to appreciate, it's exports into the U.S. would have decreased ages ago, and the U.S. competitiveness would have improved. A "low" currency is by no means a bad thing, problems come mainly when currencies are under- or overpriced, because then they tend to move rapidly and unforeseeably. Now both the U.S. and China are in trouble. The chinese certainly don't want their precious dollar assets to lose their value. Its not unfair to have cheap labor, but you might say China has been unfair in keeping down its currency. However, if the dollar was to plummet, it would mean that the U.S. has been paying China with imaginary money. ;-) So in the end: fair is fair.

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free labor, state owned factories,state produced materials...ya it sure seems like it favors the west...it's an elitists dream.

it's all play money at this point...thats why consumer inflation in the US is at 2000%...

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free labor, state owned factories,state produced materials...ya it sure seems like it favors the west...it's an elitists dream.

it's all play money at this point...thats why consumer inflation in the US is at 2000%...

a.free labor

By which you mean cheap labor. And its cheap because people are poor. I don't see how being poor is a benefit. Granted, the currency being undervalued makes it even cheaper.

b.state owned factories, state produced materials

I don't see how these are favorable to China. Most americans, and even most europeans think that state-run enterprises tend to be inefficient, and more of a strain than a benefit to a country. The state owned factories are a remnant of communism and I really don't see how they're somehow tipping the playing field in the favor of the chinese. State produced materials: same thing. just because the state produces them doesn't make them "free", they still have to go through the trouble of producing them.

"Ya it sure seems like it favors the west"

I'm not sure what this "it" is that you mention. While I was talking about capitalism without labor movement, you seem to be talking about communism... It seems that you're saying that the communist system is economically superior to the capitalist one and therefore the playing field isn't level? I'm pretty sure that thats not what you mean, but thats what you're implying.

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It seems that you're saying that the communist system is economically superior to the capitalist one and therefore the playing field isn't level? I'm pretty sure that thats not what you mean, but thats what you're implying.

That is what i'm saying..how can we trade efficiently when we pay living wages with benefits...and they pay next to nothing...

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That is what i'm saying..how can we trade efficiently when we pay living wages with benefits...and they pay next to nothing...

But under communism they lack incentive to do their best

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Certain companies make big profits but doesn't the spending of billions of dollars of taxpayer's money kind of balance out any overall profit that the country would make?

Thats the thing, the country isn't making the money back the major corporations are. The tax dollars spent on this war are making a very few people super rich.

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And you do?

If such a decision were up to you, Id worry. But it isnt , so I wont. And dont get yourself worked up into a lather to quick over the weakening dollar. I still recall the US and Canada trading (for decades) when the loon was lower in value to the dollar.

You guys have no idea how bad of shape the US is in right now :lol:

The "War on Terror" is going to be a long haul... 50 years some have said.... 50 years in Iraq alone maybe.... where is the US going to get the money to pay for this ever increasing misadventure? China? Just keep borrowing from the next superpower until what?

It has only taken a few years for it to get this bad, imagine another decade or more of this... imagine when the US dollar isnt the reserve currency anymore... imagine when resources start to get scarcer... imagine all the ways that the fragile house of cards could fall apart linked-image

The dollar is sinking, when it loses its place as a reserve currency in demand by the world it will sink faster, with more and more money being flushed down the drain for war... a war with no forseeable end, unfriendly rising powers just sitting back and watching... hardly spending a dime and raking in the dough.

Sure Canada had a lower dollar for a long time and is only on par with the US dollar now... but Canada was never in debt to their eyes with China, Canada was never on a failed Mid East adventure bleeding it dry, Canada had and still has massive amounts of resources.... the US only has its dollar and it dont look so good right now and things have just gotten started linked-image

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What McDumbDumb bomb keeps posting is anti American and why he gets the jollies off it I don't know, but it is very short sighted. The U.S. is going to be around for a long time to come.

Oh Sliver Dong your wittiness is too much for me.... mark my words, and when it comes just hang your head low and say, "Damn it McDumdDumb schooled another one... me!" linked-image

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You guys have no idea how bad of shape the US is in right now :lol:

The "War on Terror" is going to be a long haul... 50 years some have said.... 50 years in Iraq alone maybe.... where is the US going to get the money to pay for this ever increasing misadventure? China? Just keep borrowing from the next superpower until what?

It has only taken a few years for it to get this bad, imagine another decade or more of this... imagine when the US dollar isnt the reserve currency anymore... imagine when resources start to get scarcer... imagine all the ways that the fragile house of cards could fall apart linked-image

The dollar is sinking, when it loses its place as a reserve currency in demand by the world it will sink faster, with more and more money being flushed down the drain for war... a war with no forseeable end, unfriendly rising powers just sitting back and watching... hardly spending a dime and raking in the dough.

Sure Canada had a lower dollar for a long time and is only on par with the US dollar now... but Canada was never in debt to their eyes with China, Canada was never on a failed Mid East adventure bleeding it dry, Canada had and still has massive amounts of resources.... the US only has its dollar and it dont look so good right now and things have just gotten started linked-image

Yes, I'll have the #3 flamebait combo, with a side order of hate covered in psycological co-dependancy, yeah make it a large, and an unsweetened McNuclearWaste hyperbole tea.

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Are you calling me a McMasterbaiter!!?!?!! :angry:^_^

China voices alarm at dollar weakness

China on Monday expressed concern at the decline in the dollar, joining a growing chorus of global policymakers alarmed by the weakness in the world's main reserve currency.

Premier Wen Jiabao told a business audience in Singapore it was becoming difficult to manage China's $1,430bn foreign exchange reserves, saying that their value was under unprecedented pressure.

"We have never been experiencing such big pressure," Mr Wen said, according to Reuters. "We are worried about how to preserve the value of our reserves."

China keeps the currency composition of its reserves a state secret, but some analysts believe that more than two-thirds are probably still held in dollars.

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Hhhmmm linked-image I wonder what they are up to... :lol:

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