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UK Government plan to allow Lesbian IVF


Syd Boggle
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The gay rights movement's approach to the nature vs nurture debate.. always makes me laugh, :lol:

See, they consider being gay 100% nature- ie genetic...'we had no choice in the matter..what-so-ever'

ok, but what about raising a child? Don't you think the child might not like it? I certainly wouldn't have like it, as child,

because my instinct would say to me 'something ain't right here'.Might not be fashionable to admit it but it's true.

Yet, the response from the Gay right's movement is usually "Oh no! The child will accept it.. raising a child is 100% nurture nature has no influence what-so-ever!"

Kinda double standards...don't ya think? :unsure2:

As usual, Billy, you say more than you know.

You're assuming the gay rights movement is a completely homogeneous group with one single party line.

It isn't, but I couldn't expect you to know better.

--Jaylemurph

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Couldn't it become natural for the children of tomorrow if it weren't for people like you though ?

Are you talking Tomorrow children in a StarTrek type civilization?... hell even in StarTrek they knew not to cover this topic! why? because its ridiculous....

"Same sex Parenthood, is illogical captain.........Set phasers to stun......

linked-image

Even people like me were kids once, kids with no real "bigoted influences" we worked it out ourselves, with common sense........

Edited by lord scrummage
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Im my view, this clearly suggests it to be a psychological anomaly! So why should an innocent child be subjected to the whims of someones selfish agenda , for psychological self fulfillment... where a synthetic scientific method is needed to fulfill their wishes

nothing natural about it!

whoah... straight away lord scrummage (in debating terms) comes flying in his AC-130 PREDATOR with all guns a blazing!

you've just taken out, a whole bunch of gay rights insurgents.

Hang on though, expect... some ignorance, bigoted and homophobic anti-aircraft fire!

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While I couldn't give a damn how some other raises their kids, lesbian or gay couples can raise a kid as well as any other hetero couple.

Tell me. How do you creat a gay person? Through a man and a woman. So, so what if a kid grows up gay by having two fathers, their fathers grew up gay in a heterosexual home. Homosexuality is thought to be in either the genes or an imbalance of hormones - too much or too little testosterone, while developing in the womb. So there's a high percentage that homosexuality is natural (even other animals have homosexual tendencies - look it up. It was on the main page if I remember a while ago.)

Hetero and homo families, both can create gay children AND straight children (seeing as sexuality is a primal instinct in genes), both can commit child abuse, both can commit to a happy family, both can have marital/couple arguments, both can make loving families. Sexuality doesn't determine your child-upbringing or family support capabilities, experience does.

What I do hate to see happen: would be pro-gay couples MAKING their kids gay as well as anti-hetero teachings. Just like pro-hetero families MAKE their kids hetero if they show signs of homosexuality as well as anti-homosexual teachings.

What I'd like to know though, in all seriousness, is: Why do you feel it's any of your business of who has and who does not have/want a baby.

You've no right to tell people how to think or act, no right to walk through their minds and tell them your way of thinking is correct.

This goes for everyone, gay or straight, religious or atheist, pro-abortionist or anti-abortionist, pro-gay family or anti-gay family. If it doesn't affect you, then shutup and sit down.

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What about you ?? You can be a wonderful role model for him as well as your father (his grandfather)....Are you both in his life ??
Me and my father both live in Florida my sister and her son live in California. Kind of hard to be a daily role model for this young man when we are 3000 miles away.
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You've no right to tell people how to think or act, no right to walk through their minds and tell them your way of thinking is correct.

This goes for everyone, gay or straight, religious or atheist, pro-abortionist or anti-abortionist, pro-gay family or anti-gay family. If it doesn't affect you, then shutup and sit down.

you could say the same thing to you. what gives you the right to tell people they have no right and to shut up and sit down?

People are entitled to their opinions..

It's up to people if they want to be affected by them... or otherwise we're just talking to ourselves.

which is probably true anyway. :innocent:

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While I couldn't give a damn how some other raises their kids, lesbian or gay couples can raise a kid as well as any other hetero couple.

Tell me. How do you creat a gay person?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz here we go ...check past threads on this maybe?...whats creat mean?...nevermind...another gay um argument..sigh.*

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Me and my father both live in Florida my sister and her son live in California. Kind of hard to be a daily role model for this young man when we are 3000 miles away.

But you are so involved with his life that you can tell he acts abnormal? You have one or the other, you can't have both.

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Do what you're doing, spend what you're owing, Pay what you're paying, look where you're going

Say what you're thinking, kill who you're killing, Sing if you're singing, speak if you're speaking

Sounds GOOD to ME! ;)

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So why should an innocent child be subjected to the whims of someones selfish agenda , for psychological self fulfillment... where a synthetic scientific method is needed to fulfill their wishes

And you could say the same thing for gay children who grow up in hetero-couple households. Or in homes where one or both of the parents are infertile. Or surrogate mothers, or families where one parent has died, or orphans growing up in the State systems...should I go on?

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Do what you're doing, spend what you're owing, Pay what you're paying, look where you're going

Say what you're thinking, kill who you're killing, Sing if you're singing, speak if you're speaking

Sounds GOOD to ME! ;)

sing it billy..ahhhh good on ya mate..

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sing it billy..ahhhh good on ya mate..

Why thanks unlimited.

As one member of the UM who's taken a lot of flak...you're still standing. :lol:

You must be bullet proof. :tu:

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Why thanks unlimited.

As one member of the UM who's taken a lot of flak...you're still standing. :lol:

You must be bullet proof. :tu:

<_< im like teflon billy...I love controversy, it keeps me young..and alive...peace..

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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz here we go ...check past threads on this maybe?...whats creat mean?...nevermind...another gay um argument..sigh.*

Ugh... No, it's just common sense to know anyone can make decent parents, despite your sexual orientation.

=o And oh noes! You saw a typo, I'll tell you this though, if you're too pathetic in your own self and your own language to not recognise a word that is missing a single letter. I'd advise you to either read more - as they say, books are better than there movie counterparts :tu: - or perhaps take up an English lesson sometime. ;)

Really, saying you're almost half a century in your age, I'd have imagined you learning better wit. Proved me utterly wrong.

Edited by Chokmah
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No LT, your missing the point, most people are born straight!

now, i dont need you to go and cut and paste more flimsy scientific evidence! god forbid you post something of your own!

Most people are born straight, how do i prove it? easy, statistically most people are in conventional relationships! now i know what your thinking! your thinking that most of those could be forced to live conventional lives! Now the truth is usually simple! and people like yourself are often chasing the boogie man evidence, which really doesn't exist!

You just hope it does!

As for me knowing better, i do, iv'e frequented many a public lavatory, and observed many a mans *SpamFilter*, I have to say, it never done a thing for me! but hey i've looked, I questioned it, and i've moved on!....... perhaps you should to! the truth is always simple, not the complex web of liberal *Spamfilter* which keeps people like yourself constantly contorting the facts to keep yourselves "current man"

no , there is no proof people are born straight . nothing definitive. just as there is nothing definitive people are born gay ----- but genetics they are finding and chemistry plays a role as to which you become !!!! so proof for both is not too far away.

being gay is just as natural as being straight. look at nature - gay animals exist there as well. While gay and lesbians may not be a majority - a majority doesn't mean normal. if it exists in nature it must be normal and it does.

so you admit to being curious to anonymous male encounters in public restrooms ? well at least your honest. It's usually men in the closet with wives at home that cruise restrooms.

As for the truth , I've given you the truth. Your insecure denial keeps you from it. People who are secure in their own sexuality have no problem admitting the truth. yes scientific evidence - soon more will be available and I'll cut and paste it for you . and while learned people evolve and realize how stupid society was on the matter - you can be rest assured to being the minority that chose to remain ignorant instead.

ps ------- if these women are paying their taxes they have every right to utilize the medical profession that they are paying for to get pregnant.

Edited by Lt_Ripley
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Being gay is no different in terms of natural as being straight.

I've made my arguements in the past on this subject. Just because you refuse logic and science and would and are more inclinded to stick to religious and social ignorant bias is your choice. Education is a choice not forced upon us.

When did you get your degree is human sexuality , psychology , genetics ? How many gay/lesbian homes that have children have you watched develoup over say 20 years ? ( did you know those kids tend to end up the same if not more stable than their straight counterparts having a lesson against people like you that make it rough ? that the only suffering they go through is the result of people like you ? uneducated on the subject and filled with ignorance on the matter ? and they end up gay the same percentage they do coming from straight families !!! so no having a gay parent(s) doesn't make gay kids.)

When have you even decided to remain neutral and read all there is out there on the subject ? Educated people tend to look at data that doesn't have an agenda --- as religion does.

why does it scare you so much anyway ? what has it to do with you ? here is something you need to read - as well as others who think like you . Please , do yourself a favor and read it. You might learn something about yourself.

<a href="http://www.petertatchell.net/homophobia/bigots are buggers.htm" target="_blank">http://www.petertatchell.net/homophobia/bi...e buggers.htm</a>

Well I have watched and no they are not more stable if any thing they are confused. For instance my step son. Who was raised by two women his grandma and great grandma. Who both did not like men.

Edited by cerberusxp
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Well I have watched and no they are not more stable if any thing they are confused. For instance my step son. Who was raised by two women his grandma and great grandma. Who both did not like men.

That's one of the trouble if pro-gay couples have kids. They could either make them gay or (if they're girls) make them hate men and have them become an Asexual mess :lol:

But then, most families create their kids to be messed up or confused. Think of hyper-fanatical religious families, they churn out intolerant kids, and in some countries have them blow themselves up.

But then, people don't tend to realise that in any family structure, kids can turn out messed up, confused or brainwashed.

Edited by Chokmah
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no , there is no proof people are born straight . nothing definitive. just as there is nothing definitive people are born gay ----- but genetics they are finding and chemistry plays a role as to which you become !!!! so proof for both is not too far away.

Is that some sort of joke? :lol: mmmh maybe a lesson in human reproduction is in order?

Actually, this could be the middle ground.

When these Lesbians go to the NHS for IVF treatment, they could also be given a basic biology lesson.

That's one of the trouble if pro-gay couples have kids. They could either make them gay or (if they're girls) make them hate men and have them become an Asexual mess :lol:

Imo That is a 100% certainty. It is, alas inevitable.

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Me and my father both live in Florida my sister and her son live in California. Kind of hard to be a daily role model for this young man when we are 3000 miles away.

Fair enough then.....

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I love when homophobes use the "but the poor kid would not have a male role model!" card. Them what, marry by force any single mon who raise her chuldren by her own soo the "poor kid can have a male rolemodel" in home?

Sociaological and psicological studies along the years on kids raised by gay parents have showed that the "gayness" of the parents doesnt affect the sexual evolution of the kids. Most of them are hetersexual, and dont have problems whit their parent sexualities.

In fact, the stusdies showed that the main sources of problem for this kids are homophobes that harras them and cause a huge stress on them. Most of this harraser are religous representatives or extremists.

Finally, has a worker on Child Care, i can assure you that the prescence of a male and a female on a house is not the fundamental base for the healthy development of a child. Just is needed love and responsability to raise propely a kid.

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being gay is just as natural as being straight. look at nature - gay animals exist there as well. While gay and lesbians may not be a majority - a majority doesn't mean normal. if it exists in nature it must be normal and it does.

As for the truth , I've given you the truth. Your insecure denial keeps you from it. People who are secure in their own sexuality have no problem admitting the truth. yes scientific evidence - soon more will be available and I'll cut and paste it for you . and while learned people evolve and realize how stupid society was on the matter - you can be rest assured to being the minority that chose to remain ignorant instead.

yes your right, its all natural LT, we look to the animal kingdom, and we have gay animals.

funny though, i don't recall these animals taking it a step further & getting fertility treatment!

But in principle your right LT

So i guess when i read about someone murdering their baby, ill say oh, its normal! some animals also kill their babies.

As for being insecure, well, just because i am against same sex parenthood, does not make a person insecure

In fact LT, its cheap jibes like that, which show, how your loosing grip of the argument!

Call gay fetishness what you like, i really don't care, gay fetish parenting......Is wrong! specially when science is creating that option!

Do it the old fashioned way, if your a lesbian fetishist, get drunk, and sleep with a man! what you scared of?

getting converted....

Edited by lord scrummage
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Call gay fetishness what you like, i really don't care, gay fetish parenting......Is wrong! specially when science is creating that option!

Can you provide any links to scientific or sociological research that provces gay parenting is wrong and has harmful affects on children? If its just your opinion that's fair enough, its your right however you state it as if its a fact, rather than a opinion.

Do it the old fashioned way, if your a lesbian fetishist, get drunk, and sleep with a man! what you scared of?

getting converted....

Crude, tasteless remarks such as these remove credibility scrummage, I would advise actually creating and presenting well-thoughtout and researched arguments if you want to be taken seriously.

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I used to be in the middle...or part of the 'so what' crowd but the illogical arguments, pseudoscience and myths perpetrated the gayrights advocates

soon becomes irritating.

Ironically, I learnt most of the arguments from people on this site.

I mean take the standard issue rhetoric, we hear all the time- take this pro-gay site for example

Childen living with gay parents

Research studies have shown that same-sex parenting revealed that children living with two moms or two dads develop normally. In some cases it has shown boys to be less sexually adventuresome, and girls are more sexually daring. Children living with two parents of the same sex also seem to endure ridicule, taunting, and harassment from other children because of their parents' sexual orientation.

Charlotte Patterson, a research psychologist said, "When you look at children with standard psychological assessments; you can't tell which child is living with gay/lesbian parents from a child living with heterosexual parents." She comments, "Studies to date are relatively few and open to criticism."

spot the contradiction...

After a while you notice contradictions all the time... but it doesn't seem to stop pro-gay side from ignoring them..or only using biased research- and just carrying on..

Edited by Billy of the Hill
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I used to be in the middle...or part of the 'so what' crowd but the illogical arguments, pseudoscience and myths perpetrated the gayrights advocates

soon becomes irritating.

Ironically, I learnt most of the arguments from people on this site.

I mean take the standard issue rhetoric, we hear all the time- take this pro-gay site for example

Childen living with gay parents

Research studies have shown that same-sex parenting revealed that children living with two moms or two dads develop normally. In some cases it has shown boys to be less sexually adventuresome, and girls are more sexually daring. Children living with two parents of the same sex also seem to endure ridicule, taunting, and harassment from other children because of their parents' sexual orientation.

Charlotte Patterson, a research psychologist said, "When you look at children with standard psychological assessments; you can't tell which child is living with gay/lesbian parents from a child living with heterosexual parents." She comments, "Studies to date are relatively few and open to criticism."

spot the contradiction...

After a while you notice contradictions all the time... but it doesn't seem to stop pro-gay side from ignoring them..or only using biased research- and just carrying on..

Hm... I can't spot the contradiction, But Wally is over by the fifth T behind the top right pixel.

I'm in the "whatever" crowd. If they got the money to do it, and are not relying on taxpayers to pay for them having it done, they can do whatever they want. Doesn't affect or bother me, but sometimes you can't help but feel lesbiens getting an IVF is more of a political stunt than anything else.

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Hm... I can't spot the contradiction, But Wally is over by the fifth T behind the top right pixel.

Well, if you look into it..the research is always biased, and the criticism from an objective perspective- actually legitimate. ie the case studies were too small, too short a time..to see the what the affects of the child might be,the survey are usually always conducted by those seeking an out come which suits their agenda.etc

Bad research...bad science...

But the last gay debate in the UM... became so boring and 64 pages long, demonstrating this to each one who misguidedly believed it was only 'homophobic christians' who were 'criticizing' the reports.

I'm in the "whatever" crowd. If they got the money to do it, and are not relying on taxpayers to pay for them having it done, they can do whatever they want.Doesn't affect or bother me, but sometimes you can't help but feel lesbiens getting an IVF is more of a political stunt than anything else.

Well, that's one of the issues, they do want the NHS to fund it. Another issue is, it's going to become part of a new Law. link

Once it's Law...that's it..there will no debate..

And the evidence to support such a law? well, can be summed up by Liberal democrat spoeman and science and technology committee member Even Harris.

Evan Harris said the requirement for a father was an unnecessary provision because evidence did not show children born to lesbian mothers or 'solo parents' without a partner were "damaged" as a result.

mmmh what evidence..or lack of?

Anyway, another interesting note is the type of IVF treatment they want..

Lesbian couple want 'rare IVF'

A baby

Lesbian couples have had babies through IVF before

A lesbian is hoping to have a child using an egg donated by her partner, and donor sperm.

Lesbian couples regularly have babies using IVF treatment, but it is rare for a partner to donate an egg in such a way.

Most simply use donor sperm to inseminate one partner.

Hayley Marlow, 29, and Vicky Hill, 22, both from Banbury, said they wanted to have a baby this way so that the baby "truly came from both of them".

The couple who have been together for just over a year, have spoken to their GP about their plans, but have not yet been referred to a consultant.

We hope we will get some of the treatment on the NHS.

Ms Marlow told the Oxford Mail: "A lot of lesbians do have children using male friends as sperm donors but we want a baby that has truly come from both of us and the only way to do that is by me carrying Vicky's baby."

BBC link

mmmh I wonder what the gayman's equivalent version will be for having a baby which "truly came from both of them".

Edited by Billy of the Hill
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