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UK Government plan to allow Lesbian IVF


Syd Boggle
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Forgive me if this sounds like an insult but you're talking out of your behind. You see, a lot of marriages fail, just highlighting the interracial ones that do and ignoring the ones that dont doesn't really validate your argument.

Don't take offense, But Perhaps your struggling to keep up here Cradle, let me assist you!

I was responding to Goblins naive post! It was him who highlighted Interracial relations, not me!

Now, if you look into it, and if you live in an area where there is a high proportion of minorities, then you will know, that a disproportionately high amount of interracial unions break up within a few years! leading to the results that i have already highlighted! (which are well documented) even by the guardian..

If you look into it further, it is widely accepted, that west Indian men, will play away!.........

But as i have already said, the only reason this sideline topic popped up, is because someone else brought it up!

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Don't take offense, But Perhaps your struggling to keep up here Cradle, let me assist you!

I was responding to Goblins naive post! It was him who highlighted Interracial relations, not me!

Now, if you look into it, and if you live in an area where there is a high proportion of minorities, then you will know, that a disproportionately high amount of interracial unions break up within a few years! leading to the results that i have already highlighted! (which are well documented) even by the guardian..

If you look into it further, it is widely accepted, that west Indian men, will play away!.........

But as i have already said, the only reason this sideline topic popped up, is because someone else brought it up!

You sould like you're demonizing minorities. Alot of people that I know, who are caucasian, the majority in this country come from families where their parents have split up. Mine have, my closest friends have. It happens alot, I seriously dont know why people bother getting married considering how often they break up. Does that mean there's something wrong with same-race marriages? Of course not, it means humans(men more than women) arent designed to stay with one person their whole life. And so what? Single parents can still raise children, my sisters are raising 4 each, and they aren't doing that bad of a job.

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You sould like you're demonizing minorities. Alot of people that I know, who are caucasian, the majority in this country come from families where their parents have split up. Mine have, my closest friends have. It happens alot, I seriously dont know why people bother getting married considering how often they break up. Does that mean there's something wrong with same-race marriages? Of course not, it means humans(men more than women) arent designed to stay with one person their whole life. And so what? Single parents can still raise children, my sisters are raising 4 each, and they aren't doing that bad of a job.

Ok, seems like you've missed the point entirely, again! However...

Lets transpose your current statement to the IVF topic at hand! it doesn't bode well for same sex parents!

You say "it means humans aren't designed to stay with one person their whole life" well that does'nt fair well for same sex parents! In fact, it makes it even more damaging for the Kid!

Not only is the child expected to treat thier family set up as normal! (which is challenging enough)

According to you, the kid, must also accept that their "Mothers" or "fathers" are going to split up! im sure the custody battle will be confusing!

doomed to failure!

I am in my Fifties, Ive been married for 34 years, i am very happy, and I dont know any divorcee's!

Of course i know people do divorce, however, to accept the argument that "people aren't meant to stay together forever" is a liberal apologist cop out!

(and im not talking about abusive marriages)

why don't you try saying, "In the modern ideal" people are Selfish, Expect the earth & demand even more!.... I think that is more accurate...

To the point that they will use medical aids to bring a child into the world, and ultimately leave them with psychological problems in adulthood! All based on the wanna be parents selfish whims & unnatural fulfilment!

The poor Buggers....erm no pun intended

Makes me sick......To the bone

Edited by lord scrummage
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Well said.

Now tell me who is paying for it.

If it's on the National Health, then I am paying for it, along with many others.

I havn't read the ENTIRE post-response chain, so please forgive - and correct - me if I have missed something.

But if this is on the NHS, at a time when my Dad was left in a supply cupboard on a bloody trolley, then darned RIGHT I will object to this sort of trivial "lifestyle" treatment.

C'mon back.

Hiss Growl.

so will those lesbians paying taxes get their taxes back ?

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my suggestion to those who disapprove ? join the Most Hated Family in America - the Westboro's . Lord , you could start your own group !!! did you know that Westboro , like you , has homosexual tendancies ? I don't know if he's cruised mens public restrooms as you have admitted doing , but it seems in his past when he worked with the ACLU , he wasn't exactly the anal retentive bigot he is now.

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so will those lesbians paying taxes get their taxes back ?

No they wont get their money back! because the NHS exists to heal people!

It doesn't exist to aid people in fulfilling their Vanity..........

Vanity comes at a price!

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No they wont get their money back! because the NHS exists to heal people!

It doesn't exist to aid people in fulfilling their Vanity..........

Vanity comes at a price!

ok -- so if these tax paying lesbians couldn't get pregnant the old fashioned way you would have no problem ? It's the same vanity straight people have in getting pregnant when they can't when adoption is available.

Edited by Lt_Ripley
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my suggestion to those who disapprove ? join the Most Hated Family in America - the Westboro's . Lord , you could start your own group !!! did you know that Westboro , like you , has homosexual tendancies ? I don't know if he's cruised mens public restrooms as you have admitted doing , but it seems in his past when he worked with the ACLU , he wasn't exactly the anal retentive bigot he is now.

LT, your little attacks on me, are about as desperate as a "starving Bin Laden, trapped in a pig farm"

But my argument is so solid, that, unlike like so many others in here, i wouldn't even report you.....Because i can handle myself...

ok -- so if these tax paying lesbians couldn't get pregnant the old fashioned way you would have no problem ? It's the same vanity straight people have in getting pregnant when they can't when adoption is available.

Good point! IVF shouldn't be available on the NHS, full stop.......

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I guess soon, two gay men will demand IVF treatment on the NHS... people, it will happen.

perhaps science can aid them, maybe someone will invent an 'artificial womb' which can be inserted into one of the gaymen- maybe up his...(cough)

And then he can give birth 'naturally' and the mother will be reduced to nothing more than an egg donor.

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I guess soon, two gay men will demand IVF treatment on the NHS... people, it will happen.

perhaps science can aid them, maybe someone will invent an 'artificial womb' which can be inserted into one of the gaymen- maybe up his...(cough)

And then he can give birth 'naturally' and the mother will be reduced to nothing more than an egg donor.

so what?

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In a speech to the Institute for Public Policy Research, Nick Clegg touched on why such nostalgia goes relatively unchallenged. As he says, the language of family has been captured by the right. In their latest crusade, against a few hundred lesbian couples quite able to bring up well-adjusted offspring, church and political campaigners argue that children 'need' a father and have the 'right' to one.

Take need first. Fathers are not essential to rearing happy, successful children, and nor are mothers. The First World War, in which 500,000 children were orphaned, marked the biggest loss of fathers in modern history, far exceeding today's exodus of dads who flee or are excluded from their children's lives because a relationship has foundered or because they never wanted any involvement.

No one argued, as they do now, that crime and educational failure are pinned to the disappearance of male role models. This is not only a dispiriting message to Britain's 1.8 million lone parents, of whom nine in 10 are women. It's wrong. Last year, Peggy Drexler, of Cornell University, wrote a book saying boys from fatherless homes can fare better than those raised in nuclear families. Her research showed that women could equip sons with a sense of morality and masculinity. For that, she was deluged with hate mail, denouncing her as 'a ****ing dunce' and a 'femi-Nazi' who should move her 'dyke ass to Europe'.

Drexler is actually married with two children, as am I. She simply recognised that her kind of life was becoming rarer and wanted to explore new family models. Her research showed that fathers are not a necessity. But are they a 'right'? In the normal run of things, Tory hardliners are as likely to advocate rights as to urge that Fortnum & Mason be converted to a drop-in centre for asylum seekers. Those who think adult human rights belong in the straight bananadom of Europe consider children's rights to be as outlandish as the wish list the disaster-stricken Montserrat islanders once put to Clare Short: they'll be wanting golden elephants next.

The 'right to a father' clamour coincided, by pure chance, with the 18th anniversary of the adoption of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. Next year, the UK will be examined on its compliance, or lack of it, with the convention. The last audit, in 2002, found us gravely wanting. As things stand, we shall get another pasting.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/st...2216792,00.html

and it passed as well. you are in a minority lord.

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I guess soon, two gay men will demand IVF treatment on the NHS... people, it will happen.

perhaps science can aid them, maybe someone will invent an 'artificial womb' which can be inserted into one of the gaymen- maybe up his...(cough)

And then he can give birth 'naturally' and the mother will be reduced to nothing more than an egg donor.

Once again, we are witness to another gem of a point by the gentlemanly Billy Hill,

Profound & potent Billy.........as as ghastly as it is......

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What happens to kids raised by gay parents?

Research suggests that they turn out about the same, no better, no worse and no more likely to be gay than other kids

Sunday, June 10, 2007

By Mackenzie Carpenter, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Rebecca Meiksin, 22, is white, middle-class, college-educated, with plans to earn a graduate degree in public health.

Annie O'Neill, Post-Gazette

Terrance McGeorge, a 20-year old African-American man whose father came out when he was six and left Terrance's mother shortly afterwards, was raised in the Hill District and never felt he wasn't loved. But as a black gay man, he has and continues to confront a number of obstacles, including an African-American community that seems to view him with suspicion and derision. He shares some of his experiences with Post-Gazette staff writer Mackenzie Carpenter.

Terrance McGeorge, 20, is black, grew up in the Hill District, has a high school degree and works in an AmeriCorps service program at Beginning With Books.

Despite their differences, both of these young people have something in common with the new grandson of the vice president of the United States, who was born to Mary Cheney and her partner, Heather Poe, on May 23: They grew up in a family with a gay parent.

And both of them believe they have turned out just fine-- in no small way because of how they were raised.

"My dad has been my best friend since I was a kid," said Mr. McGeorge, a tall, friendly young man who wants to pursue a career in theater and fashion. "He always encouraged me and was there for me, for whatever it was, graduations, performances, he was there, immediately."

Mr. McGeorge, like his father, is gay. That might provoke an "Aha!" moment for those who warn that children of gays are more likely to adopt their parents' lifestyle, but he says his father had nothing to do with it, except, possibly, providing DNA.

"I've always known I was that way, since I was 3- or 4 years old, when I started getting crushes on other boys. My father didn't come out until I was 6," he said.

Ms. Meiksin is heterosexual.

"Um, I'm going to spend the month of June with my boyfriend," she says with a shy laugh. Asked if her lesbian mother encouraged her to follow in her footsteps, she rolls her eyes.

"I never felt any pressure to be gay," she said. "Although I did take my boyfriend to a gay pride parade once, which was a real trip for him."

Ms. Meiksin represents part of a first wave of babies intentionally conceived or adopted by gay parents in the 1980s as the gay pride movement took off. Mr. McGeorge, on the other hand, is part of a different group of children -- many from minority and low-income communities -- born of a heterosexual union that dissolved when one parent came out as gay.

So how are they doing, now that they've reached young adulthood?

Some critics have suggested these children -- along with Samuel David Cheney, Mary Cheney's infant son -- are doomed to a life of struggle compared with those raised in a more traditional, Ozzie-and-Harriet-model family, with a mother and a father.

But most studies have found that outcomes for children of gay and lesbian parents are no better -- and no worse -- than for other children, whether the measures involve peer group relationships, self-esteem, behavioral difficulties, academic achievement, or warmth and quality of family relationships.

No one knows precisely how many children in the United States have at least one parent who is lesbian or gay. Estimates range all the way from 1 million to 9 million.

For many of these young people, though, growing up in what census researchers call a "same-sex parent household" doesn't have to be a big deal -- except that, these days, it is.

"With all due respect to Cheney and her partner," Dr. James Dobson of the conservative Christian group Focus on the Family, wrote in Time magazine in December, "the majority of more than 30 years of social-science evidence indicates that children do best on every measure of well-being when raised by their married mother and father."

Some liberals chimed in too, notably Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist Leonard Pitts, who cited "a growing body of research that tells us the child raised without his or her biological father is significantly more likely to live in poverty, do poorly in school, drop out altogether, become a teen parent, exhibit behavioral problems, smoke, drink, use drugs or wind up in jail."

The problem with the research cited by both Dr. Dobson and Mr. Pitts is that it compares children of heterosexual couples only with those of single parents and not with children of same-sex parent families, said Gary Gates, a senior research fellow at the Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law and an expert on census data involving gay and lesbian households.

"There are virtually no studies that make a direct comparison with same-sex parents," he said, noting census data show one in four same-sex couples are raising a child under the age of 18.

A number of professional medical organizations -- including the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Psychiatric Association -- have issued statements claiming that a parent's sexual orientation is irrelevant to his or her ability to raise a child.

For the most part, the organizations are relying on a relatively small but conclusive body of research -- approximately 67 studies -- looking at children of gay parents and compiled by the American Psychological Association. In study after study, children in same-sex parent families turned out the same, for better or for worse, as children in heterosexual families.

Moreover, a 2001 meta-analysis of those studies found that the sexual orientation of a parent is irrelevant to the development of a child's mental health and social development and to the quality of a parent-child relationship.

More research needed

The problem with these studies, Dr. Gates says, is that most of the children are from "intentional" same-sex parent families, where the parents tend to be better educated, more affluent and more open about their sexual orientation, and who deliberately conceive or adopt children with the intention of raising them in a same-sex parent family.

"My research suggests that's not the typical gay parent household," Dr. Gates said.

In fact, only 6 percent of same-sex parents have an adopted child, and a sizable number appear to be living in some kind of step-family arrangement, in which parents "come out later and have children from an earlier heterosexual marriage or relationship," he said.

While white couples of relatively high income have been the focus of most studies, Census figures show that about 45 percent of same-sex parents are either black or Latino. And most of those same-sex couples with children have household incomes below that of their different-sex married counterparts.

Mr. Gates speculates that the omission of children from minority and low-income communities may be because the children have been pressured by their parents not to talk since "there may be higher levels of stigmatization in minority communities regarding homosexuality."

Mr. McGeorge says he knows about that firsthand. When his father first came out, he recalls, children in his Hill District neighborhood "cut me no slack whatsoever. They all knew about it. He looked different, acted different, and they made sure I knew it."

Despite that childhood trauma, and continued harassment when he himself came out as a teenager, Mr. McGeorge says he's proud of who he is -- a working adult with a partner and big plans for a career. He says his own robust self-esteem stems from a strong relationship with his father. (His father declined to be interviewed for this story.)

"He doesn't mind that I'm talking to you," he said, "but he's a more private person than I am."

One of the reasons for that is because of a high level of intolerance of homosexuality in the African-American community, Mr. McGeorge believes.

"Oh my God, I think maybe four or five times a week I'm getting called '******,' " he said. "I can't go into a store to buy cigarettes without being told I'm a '******' and I'm going to hell. I can't get on a bus without someone getting in my face. Sometimes the discrimination hurts, but I'm unapologetic for who I am. I won't apologize and I won't change for anyone. I've always just been myself."

On the other hand, Ms. Meiksin, born to a single lesbian mother in Squirrel Hill who moved in with a partner when Ms. Meiksin was 12, says she rarely felt any kind of discomfort growing up. (Her mother declined to be interviewed for this story.)

Ms. Meiksin says she is very comfortable talking about growing up with a lesbian mother -- and challenging anyone who believes it might not be appropriate or beneficial.

A graduate of Allderdice High School and Oberlin College, in Ohio, she says her life "always felt normal to me. A lot of my mom's friends are gay, and she's really politically active. She took me to gay pride marches and whatnot. I remember sitting out on the deck at New York New York [a Shadyside bar] eating french fries while she was at meetings."

Ms. Meiksin is probably part of the "intentional" same-sex parent family that Dr. Gates was talking about, but at least one prominent researcher takes issue with his contention that they may be overrepresented in studies.

"I've actually seen lots of diversity in the psychological literature, although what is right about what he said is that more of the research focuses on middle and upper classes," said Dr. Charlotte Patterson, a psychology professor at the University of Virginia, editor of two books published by Oxford University Press on gay and lesbian identity and youth, as well as the author of a number of articles in peer-reviewed journals.

Still, she and others noted that in the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which surveyed 12,000 high school students across the socio-economic and ethnic spectrum -- outcomes for children of gay parents and heterosexual married parents were comparable.

Conservative skeptics

All of this is anathema, however, to Peter Spriggs of the Family Research Council, a conservative group that assailed Mary Cheney's pregnancy.

He also dismissed studies cited by the American Psychological Association, saying the researchers used flawed methodology and self-selected subjects inclined to favor homosexuality.

"I don't trust that group at all," said Mr. Spriggs.

The feeling appears to be mutual.

Judith Stacey, a sociology professor at New York University and co-author with Tim Biblarz of "(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?" in the American Sociological Review, says conservative groups distorted the findings of her 2001 study, which found some slight differences in children of lesbian mothers in terms of career choices and sexual experimentation. And while some of her ongoing work is finding "minor differences in sexuality and possibly in the range of comfort, but just barely, with non heterosexual behavior," a European study of daughters of lesbians has found a skew toward more heterosexual partners.

Conservative groups have cited Ms. Stacey's writings to bolster their contention that children in gay families don't turn out "the same" as children of heterosexuals, but Ms. Stacey said what few differences she detected had no impact on child well-being.

"These groups just cherry-pick the data to suit their needs," she said of the Family Research Council, which, she noted, performs no research that has been peer-reviewed by a credible, mainstream professional institution.

Still, the battle between political conservatives and university researchers rages on.

When Dr. Dobson, in his Time magazine essay criticizing Ms. Cheney, cited research from Kyle Pruett at Yale University to state that children need fathers, Dr. Pruett, author of "Fatherneed: Why Father Care Is as Essential as Mother Care for Your Child," was furious, claiming Dr. Dobson had misrepresented his findings to suggest that children of gay parents would somehow suffer developmentally. After attempts to contact Dr. Dobson proved fruitless, he taped an interview and posted it on YouTube.com excoriating the conservative leader.

"Look, I said, if you're going to use my research to judge and implicate personal decisions people are making, you are going to hear from me about it because I consider this a destructive use of good science," Dr. Pruett said in an interview.

While "fathers make unique contributions to children, never do I say in my book that children of gay parents are at risk. Love binds parents and children together, not gender. There are plenty of boys and girls from these families with masculine and feminine role models who turn out just fine."

Mr. Spriggs remains unrepentant about his and Dr. Dobson's use of research to bolster their contention that children do best with a mother and a father.

"No scholar has the right to dictate how another person will use his data, just because he happens to disagree from a political point of view," he said.

Perhaps not, but from Ms. Meiksin's perspective, all the fuss about Ms. Cheney's baby will mean nothing if the child is loved by his family -- as she has been loved by hers.

"It doesn't really bother me that there's a focus on it because she's the daughter of this beloved conservative leader and is being accepted by him and his wife. Granted, I don't think he has a respectable policy on gay rights, but from what I have read, it seems that [Vice President Cheney] and his wife are totally accepting of their grandson as their family, and that's helpful."

First published on June 9, 2007 at 10:59 pm

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07161/793042-51.stm

Once again, we are witness to another gem of a point by the gentlemanly Billy Hill,

Profound & potent Billy.........as as ghastly as it is......

and wrong...... lol. you both are so uneducated on the subject it's laughable.

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Once again, we are witness to another gem of a point by the gentlemanly Billy Hill,

Why thank you my good man.... you are correct in your astute observations; I am a gentleman!

I must say sir, it's been a pleasure watching the 'Scrummage machine' obliterate the opposition with good old fashioned, wit, common sense and irrepressible moral fortitude.

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Well said.

Now tell me who is paying for it.

If it's on the National Health, then I am paying for it, along with many others.

I havn't read the ENTIRE post-response chain, so please forgive - and correct - me if I have missed something.

But if this is on the NHS, at a time when my Dad was left in a supply cupboard on a bloody trolley, then darned RIGHT I will object to this sort of trivial "lifestyle" treatment.

C'mon back.

Hiss Growl.

Should heterosexual couples be able to get this done through taxes (if they are), I wonder really? It's not as if it's exactly threatening the future of the nation if the population doesn't increase still further, is it? If the population was declining drastically, there might be a case for the state getting involved, but otherwise, i wonder if it shouldn't be left to the private sector, for people only to do it if they can afford it (and consequently, perhaps, if they can afford to bring children up).

i expect someone's probably going to shout at me, but it's just a thought.

Edited by 747400
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I guess soon, two gay men will demand IVF treatment on the NHS... people, it will happen.

perhaps science can aid them, maybe someone will invent an 'artificial womb' which can be inserted into one of the gaymen- maybe up his...(cough)

And then he can give birth 'naturally' and the mother will be reduced to nothing more than an egg donor.

linked-image

Self fertilising women make so much more sense, making men a twitchy pack of leg humpers...vibrators that don't fit any drawer and need eight hours sleep to recharge. Actually, what woman hasn't thought that already? But then again, male ants can spontaneously turn into Queens. So watch out. You might find a whole colony of Billettes coming out your arzz. Now that post'll use every button on the keyboard.

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"I've actually seen lots of diversity in the psychological literature, although what is right about what he said is that more of the research focuses on middle and upper classes," said Dr. Charlotte Patterson, a psychology professor at the University of Virginia, editor of two books published by Oxford University Press on gay and lesbian identity and youth, as well as the author of a number of articles in peer-reviewed journals.

Ok, who is Dr Chralotte Patterson? a quick google-

The Research Of Charlotte J. Patterson

(Updated, December 2005)

A recent news article [February, 2005] appearing in the AFA Journal, sponsored by the American Family Association, was critical of a study of gay and lesbian parenting and its co-author.

The co-author is not a researcher but a propagandist, asserted Joe Glover, president of the Family Policy Network. Glover noted that the co-author of the study, University of Virginia professor Charlotte J. Patterson, is a lesbian living with a female partner and raising three children.

Link

Ok my question is answered. yet another piece of 'unbiased' research...

yeah like she's gonna come out with "Gay parenting really has a negative effect on children... er except I'm a gay parent"

Ok you may argue Narth are equally biased- but that's all I see; biased verse biased- and the kids are the experiment..

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Ok, who are the American Family Association? a quick google -

The American Family Association exists to motivate and equip citizens to change the culture to reflect Biblical truth

The words "Biblical" and "truth" in the same sentence give one confidence in their lack of bias.

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Mr. McGeorge, like his father, is gay. That might provoke an "Aha!" moment for those who warn that children of gays are more likely to adopt their parents' lifestyle, but he says his father had nothing to do with it, except, possibly, providing DNA.

"I've always known I was that way, since I was 3- or 4 years old, when I started getting crushes on other boys. My father didn't come out until I was 6," he said.

Geez..this is what we have to put up with...subjective 'freaky' opinion... how can you know you're gay aged 3-4yrs old!?!

Because he had 'crushes' on other boys!?!

Mr McGeorge sounds totally confused... :blink:

er correct me if I'm wrong but aren't children that age asexual..!

Of course it's natural for boys not to be into girls before puberty, does that mean they are flippin gay?

How many times do you hear a young boy say "I hate girls" and visa-versa -young girls saying "I hate boys"

And yes Boys like older men.. not cause they're gay but because they're searching for a male-role model.

Edited by Billy of the Hill
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Geez..this is what we have to put up with...subjective 'freaky' opinion... how can you know you gay aged 3-4yrs old!?!

Because he had 'crushes' on other boys!?!

Mr McGeorge sounds totally confused... :blink:

er correct me if I'm wrong but aren't children that age asexual..!

Of course it's natural for boys not to be into girls before puberty, does that mean they are flippin gay?

How many times do you hear a young boy say "I hate girls" and visa-versa -young girls saying "I hate boys"

And yes Boys like older men.. not cause they gay but because they're searching for a male-role model.

Well I know I had crushes on chicks before puberty (not sexual of course). Not as young as 3 or 4 though... Maybe 8 onwards. But I guess everyone's different.

Edited by Ins0mniac
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Ok, who are the American Family Association? a quick google -

The American Family Association exists to motivate and equip citizens to change the culture to reflect Biblical truth

The words "Biblical" and "truth" in the same sentence give one confidence in their lack of bias.

cough....

Ok you may argue Narth are equally biased- but that's all I see; biased verse biased- and the kids are the experiment..

yep I made that point here....still doesn't stop Dr Charlotte Patterson from being completely biased either and pretending to be scientific. linked-image

Indeed, they are "asexual", but they are certainly psychologically sensitive on the other hand.

Once again I agree Volos, kids pick up on 'everything.'

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In a speech to the Institute for Public Policy Research, Nick Clegg touched on why such nostalgia goes relatively unchallenged.

lol :lol: Is this a joke?

I'm sorry, but I refuse to read anything written by a guy called Nick Clegg

Although his name is rather apt...

Edited by Billy of the Hill
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It is perfectly logical and reasonable to assume that the biological purpose of sex is for reproduction of the species. It is perfectly logical and reasonable to acknowledge that optimum functioning of the sexes is to be attracted to the opposite for the purpose of reproduction. Without a moral or ethical value placed on it, it is perfectly logical and reasonable to accept that heterosexuality is a superior state of functioning in comparison to homosexuality.

Statistics in the USA show that 40% of the children raised by homosexuals became homosexuals as adults. It is logical to accept reality and base law upon reality rather than on illogical emotional variables. To do otherwise virtually always leads to a disaster of some type.

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