French suburbs rocked by more riots

[glorybebe]

PARIS, France (CNN) -- The Paris suburbs were again rocked by riots after a second night of lawlessness Monday caused widespread destruction and left scores of police injured, according to French authorities and media reports.

Firefighters in a Paris suburb battle to control a blaze started after youths rioted Sunday night.

An angry mob repeatedly clashed with riot police and torched cars and buildings in the town of Villiers-le-Bel, north of Paris, after two teens on a motorcycle were killed following a collision with a police car Sunday night.

Rioters bombarded police with baseball bats, Molotov cocktail bombs and bottles filled with acid as the violence spread to the nearby towns of Longjumeau and Grigby Monday night.

The 15- and 16-year-old boys, both sons of African immigrants, according to police, died when their motorbike hit a patrol car in Villiers-le-Bel.

Some residents, populated largely by immigrants and their French-born children, accused police of fleeing the crash scene. However, three eyewitnesses, interviewed on TV, said the police stayed and tried to revive the two boys with mouth to mouth resuscitation. Watch why a repeat of past rioting is feared »

More than 60 police officers were injured in Monday night's confrontation, with five kept in hospital in a serious condition, according to reports in a number of French newspapers.

A spokesman for the police authorities in the Val d'Oise prefecture refused to confirm the numbers of police injuries, telling CNN that police feared the information could further enflame the already tense situation.

The police spokesman said 60 cars, a library and car dealer's showroom had been set on fire in Villiers-le-Bel. He said a police station had also been damaged and 15 garbage cans torched.

Security was tightened Tuesday, with helicopters deployed to patrol over the town, the spokesman said.

Villiers-le-Bel was not among the districts hit by the weeks of nationwide rioting in November 2005, when disaffected youths nationwide set thousands of cars ablaze to protest against unemployment and discrimination.

Those riots were also sparked by fatalities, namely the deaths of two men of North African descent who were electrocuted while hiding from police in an electrical substation.

French president Nicolas Sarkozy, then serving as the interior minister, provoked controversy at the time by referring to the rioters as "scum."

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Well, I kind of agree with Sarkozy that these kids are scum. I mean look a the damage they have caused. I'd kick them all out and send them home to their countries of origin.

[Spurious George]

Well, I kind of agree with Sarkozy that these kids are scum. I mean look a the damage they have caused. I'd kick them all out and send them home to their countries of origin.

Maybe the populations of European countries should take a really good look at their countries immigration policies.... as in why their governments speak as if its a problem but act like they would like more immigrants in the country

Are they scum? I dont know them I couldnt say but I do know these riots arent because of two kids getting hit by a police car... that may have been the trigger for the riots but it clearly isnt the cause... though I imagine the news will concentrate on that aspect and ignore the real issues.

Me, I like riots... people burning things, throwing stuff at cops and injuring them... cops wearing their super storm trooper suits, clubbing people unconcious and dragging their lifeless ragdolled bodies around

[glorybebe]

Maybe the populations of European countries should take a really good look at their countries immigration policies.... as in why their governments speak as if its a problem but act like they would like more immigrants in the country

Are they scum? I dont know them I couldnt say but I do know these riots arent because of two kids getting hit by a police car... that may have been the trigger for the riots but it clearly isnt the cause... though I imagine the news will concentrate on that aspect and ignore the real issues.

Me, I like riots... people burning things, throwing stuff at cops and injuring them... cops wearing their super storm trooper suits, clubbing people unconcious and dragging their lifeless ragdolled bodies around

Actually, the whole article goes into previous riots. Riots are not the answer-ever. They aren't respecting the laws of the countries they move to and they don't deserve any repect themselves.

[Guardsman Bass]

Rioting is pretty much a pastime in Paris. If I recall correctly, they are still not sure what really caused the 1968 Student Riots.

[Spurious George]

Actually, the whole article goes into previous riots. Riots are not the answer-ever. They aren't respecting the laws of the countries they move to and they don't deserve any repect themselves.

Yes riots can be the answer, history has shown that riots and rebellions have brought about change that would have never occured if the people didnt demand it... because we all know the government wont get off their asses until they are forced to.

Also if you read these articles about the riots you will frequently see "son of African immigrants", or the like, many of these people didnt move to France from Africa... their parents did. So playing the "ship them home" and "the country they moved to" doesnt always hold water. Or is it the colour of their skin that makes them less French?

Edited November 27, 2007 by McNuclearWar

[Stixxman]

They may be born in France but I can garruntee they weren't raised french. And I agree ship them and their social handicaps home. What exactly do you think would happen to any of us if we pulled this crap on their turf? The article would read "europens massacred for acting up".

[Spurious George]

They may be born in France, but they werent raised French, so ship them home? To France?

That is the... uhm... funniest thing I have heard... today.

And what does your "their turf" imaginings have to do with anything?

Perhaps if issues were adressed years ago people wouldnt be rioting today? I am sure we all know what "damage control" is and the way the government uses it to solve a short term problem today and let someone else deal with the long term problem again later... by using a short term solution, so someone else can deal with the problem again later

[Stixxman]

they are not part of the culture because they choose so. And please don't make fun of me in the geise of humor its transparent and silly and doesn't make any type of point. Yes they may be born there but if you look at immigrant culture you will notice that most people who change their geography DONT change their culture. They don't adapt to the new country they work the new country into thier guidelines. I know in my culture its not acceptable short of an invading army, for citizens to take the streets over. Apperently its normal in theirs though. Look don't blame me for this, I didn't try and tear down the city on some pretext of two kids being hit by a cop car. And really didn"t just see you on another forum cheeriing for cops to get hurt.

[Spurious George]

Why should people that move to a new country throw away their culture? I would never demand they do so or else not be called a Canadian. If you looked at "immigrant culture" you will see that immigrants children become more Westernized, their children become even more Westernized and by the second of third generation they are typically fully integrated culturally into the new country. Demanding they do that immediately is silly in my opinion... sillier than your previous statement

Oh and I see you have pulled out the "two kids being hit by a cop car" pretext for these riots... just like the media would want you to. No sense in looking deeper into the issue, much easier to just pretend that people have nothing better to do than riot again... its not like they have jobs or anything though, right

So since the last riots in France what has the government done to address the problems of unemployment and discrimination?

And please dont make assumption about me cheering for cops to get hurt, I dont discriminate, I enjoy riots regardless of who is getting hurt

[stevewinn]

We can all look forward to future riots in all European cities, ive never known a group, that gets so offended by trivial things, and then use it as an excuse for rioting. The indigenous population wont put up with rioting if it becomes a regular thing. Vive la France

[Spurious George]

Heres a list of riots throughout history, courtesy Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots - familiarize yourself with it and accept that rioting is part of being human... dont deny your species

We can all look forward to future riots in all European cities, ive never known a group, that gets so offended by trivial things, and then use it as an excuse for rioting. The indigenous population wont put up with rioting if it becomes a regular thing. Vive la France

Really? Never known any group that riots over trivial things? Are you familiar with the 1994 Stanley Cup riots in Vancouver? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Stanley_Cup_riot

Westerners riot over sports, children of immigrants riot over social issues... and they are the ones accused of being offended by trivial things

And yet no one has really questioned European governments immigration policies and what lies behind those policies... like why do European governments desire a large influx of immigrants from poorer countries? Hhhhmmmmm

Edited November 27, 2007 by McNuclearWar

[stevewinn]

Why should people that move to a new country throw away their culture?

Why, Well When people decide to leave their home land for foreign shores they leave in the knowledge that they are moving to a country that has a different way of life and culture, if its not the different way of life and culture they are coming here for what is the reason for coming here whats so appealing?, then once they get here theres no incentive for immigrants to integrate to our way of life and culture, we have public information booklets available in all different languages, we build places of worship for them, we spend millions of pounds a year on race relations, we have laws to protect them, and whats the result? communities within communities, so then it becomes a case of them and us, at the end of the day it all boils down to religion, Christianity lets you think for yourself and evolve with the times, Islam doesnt allow for that, and this is were the problems start,.........................I wonder would we get to import our way of life and culture into places like Saudi Arabia, the middle east is still in biblical times,

[Stixxman]

But its about underlining issues steve not about a bunch of idiots using some lame excuse to steal and destroy other people's property. You really think if the shoe was on the other foot you would get treated with equality McNW? You need to travel more. I live in Canada too and I know what you mean, Canadians don;t care where everyone else is from. Don't harp my words, I have traveled and when you travel you learn pretty quickly how people think of others not fromk their country. In Canada a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian.

[glorybebe]

Yes riots can be the answer, history has shown that riots and rebellions have brought about change that would have never occured if the people didnt demand it... because we all know the government wont get off their asses until they are forced to.

Also if you read these articles about the riots you will frequently see "son of African immigrants", or the like, many of these people didnt move to France from Africa... their parents did. So playing the "ship them home" and "the country they moved to" doesnt always hold water. Or is it the colour of their skin that makes them less French?

It has nothing to do with the colour of their skin, but their attitude. We have both kinds of immigrants here, the ones who think that we owe them for them living here, and then the other ones who come here to make a better life for themselves and their families and work hard at it. they should be happy that there parents were welcomed into the country and they were not born in a third world one. They have so many opportunities it is up to them to take advantage of them and make something of themselves, instead of wanting it handed to them.

[Spurious George]

Yes I must not have ever traveled before because I think it is silly to demand that someone instantaneously leave their culture behind when they immigrate to a new country... because waiting a couple generations for it to happen naturally is just way too much to ask

So any thoughts on Westerners rioting over hockey and socc... sorry "footy"? Seems Westernized, indigenous, home-grown, whities... whatever you want to call culturally integrated people, have no problem rioting too.

Or you guys gonna skip that one too

[Spurious George]

They have so many opportunities it is up to them to take advantage of them and make something of themselves, instead of wanting it handed to them.

Are you familiar with the high unemployment levels in these neighbourhoods? Are you familiar with the complaint they have over lack of opportunity? I bet not because you think they expect it to be handed to them. Perhaps you should find a story about some little kid that got killed... and feel sick to your stomach about it

[stevewinn]

But its about underlining issues steve not about a bunch of idiots using some lame excuse to steal and destroy other people's property. You really think if the shoe was on the other foot you would get treated with equality McNW? You need to travel more. I live in Canada too and I know what you mean, Canadians don;t care where everyone else is from. Don't harp my words, I have traveled and when you travel you learn pretty quickly how people think of others not fromk their country. In Canada a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian.

Stixx, the under lying issues is they think they're victimised and think the world owes them. What they should do is get their heads down work hard, integrate, but they wont, its too easy to use lame excuses of being victimised.

[Stixxman]

now that was a racist statement if i ever saw one nuclear

I believe if you move to another country its your resposibility to intergrate properly. If you want to live your traditional way stay where its common to live that way. I don't see a lot of ItalianFrenchRussianAfricanVietnamese people changing THEIR culture to accomidate me when I travel to their countries, and I don't expect it either which seperates me from people who do. The fact that they have exploited, and the word is definately exploited, our political system coupled with the media tendency to give play to this type of nonsense does not put them in the right of it.

Edited November 27, 2007 by Stixxman

[Spurious George]

Stixx, the under lying issues is they think they're victimised and think the world owes them. What they should do is get their heads down work hard, integrate, but they wont, its too easy to use lame excuses of being victimised.

No... I'm pretty sure that is what you want them to think so you can brush of their concerns as trivial.

Again, "hard work", "opportunities"... do you guys have any idea the rate of unemployment in these areas? Well, no clearly...

Well it shouldnt be long before I am accused of being a liberal that refuses to see the truth

[Stixxman]

so why the hell are they moving to a place with no work?

OHHHHHHH maybe its the social programs that allow them to have money without earning it...........................nawwwww it COULDN'T BE THAT.

[el midgetron]

I find it rather offensive that people here suggest natural-born French citizens should be "shipped back to Africa". Imagine if we kicked out the "sons of immigrants" in the United States. Better start packing your bags.....

France and the US used to share a common cause of freedom for their citizens and in that cause they were our greatest ally. Now, there is this "freedom-fries" mentality that immigrants needed to abandon their culture at the door and become what we tell them.

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"

[Spurious George]

I believe if you move to another country its your resposibility to intergrate properly.

Wow... "integrate properly" conjures up a multitude of images

Please explain to me what "integrate properly" means and who's standards these are? Are they yours?

Care to also tell me why you believe European governments desire a large influx of immigrants from poorer countries into their country?

so why the hell are they moving to a place with no work?

OHHHHHHH maybe its the social programs that allow them to have money without earning it...........................nawwwww it COULDN'T BE THAT.

You have again mistaken all of these people as immigrants that moved to France. Do you also think that everyone that lives in the ghetto of a major North American city moved there by their own choice and it is social program handouts they are after?

You seem to be flip-flopping depending on the argument...

Edited November 27, 2007 by McNuclearWar

[Stixxman]

I would like to sit around all day and complain about the myriad of methods 'the man' uses to keep me down but Im too busy maiking what I can of a bad situation. I never gave up the ghost and chalked it up to the economy. I have worked some lame jobs to survive but at least I could hold my head high because i earned the money. There's an interesting word 'earned'. Like how you have to earn your way in the world not whine your way in the world. So what has happened here is the ninnies took over the world. Yeah the people who couldn;t hack it on their own changed the rules so they could. So now what you get is a system run by a bunch of people wholly unqualified for the task. I don't care if people riot for political or athletic reasons they are law breakers and deserve to be punished. I will bet that anyone who rioted in VAncouver and was arrested was prosecuted.

[Spurious George]

I find it rather offensive that people here suggest natural-born French citizens should be "shipped back to Africa".

I think it is just conveniently ignored that many were born in France... it doesnt fit the scenario they made up in their heads about freeloading immigrants that should be shipped off. The media version is so much easier to get worked up about I guess...

[glorybebe]

Are you familiar with the high unemployment levels in these neighbourhoods? Are you familiar with the complaint they have over lack of opportunity? I bet not because you think they expect it to be handed to them. Perhaps you should find a story about some little kid that got killed... and feel sick to your stomach about it

That's really nice, and really with the rules of the forum. Maybe you shoudl talk to the immigrants who actually work and made something of themselves. I don't understand why attack me becsause you disagree with me. That is what these forums are for to discuss. And to learn from other people's opinions. So,w hat ever, you aren't my time, don't bother addressing me, I won't be reading any of your posts.