WAS CHARLES MANSON AN MK ULTRA VICTIM?

[Tenkay]

It is well known that followers of Charles Manson committed the Tate-LaBianca during the late 1960's. If one examines the case closely, it becomes obvious that Manson used mind-control techniques such as hypnotism, LSD, and other types of mental programming to turn middle-class suburbanites into selfless killers, but one has to wonder just exactly how Manson was able to accomplish this?

Consider that Manson was part of the hippie movement at the time of the CIA's project, MKULTRA, which implemented the use of drugs in order to conduct mind control experiments.

It appears that part of Manson's own supply of LSD may have come directly from the CIA. A new type of LSD known as "Orange Sunshine" was being used by the Manson Family immediately prior to the Tate-LaBianca murders according to Family member Charles "Tex" Watson, who wrote in his prison memoir that it was the use of Orange Sunshine LSD that finally convinced him that Manson's violent, apocalyptic vision was real.

In addition, Tex Watson recounted in his testimony that Manson used other drugs such as "mescaline, psilocybin, and the THC, and STP" and described a "mental acid" that "drew stuff out of your mind; and the other (body acid)...would be drawing your body."

Later, when asked about the use of drugs in the Manson family "Tex" said, "People seem to think that Manson had all of us drugged out, while he remained sober so he could easily manipulate our minds. This may be true, but a sorcerer such as Manson uses mind-altering drugs himself in order to contact spiritual beings, and gain supernatural powers."

"He did use drugs to manipulate and control us, and the more drugs we took, the easier it was for him to manipulate us with his philosophy. We all began to reflect his views, a mirror image of destruction, growing worse every day. We mirrored his lifestyle and attitude toward society."

Orange Sunshine LSD was manufactured and distributed exclusively by a group known as "The Brotherhood of Eternal Love" who operated out of a beach resort near Los Angeles. The Brotherhood had among it's drug manufacturers and dealers, one Ronald Stark, who is believed to have manufactured 50 million doses of LSD, and had known connections to the CIA.

It was this very same batch of acid that was available in abundance four months later during the fateful free concert held at Altamont Speedway. Four people died at that concert, one of them after being brutally stabbed to death by a group of Hell's Angels who had been given access to multiple tabs of Orange Sunshine. Many people who attended that concert noted that the LSD seemed to be "contaminated" and that the general vibe one got from using it was that of extreme negativity, violence, and death. Additionally, Orange Sunshine was in use among American ground forces during the Vietnam war, having been smuggled into that country from the California coast.

Manson's personal obsession was with "Helter Skelter" and his belief was that this event would ignite a black-white race war in America; the Tate-LaBianca murders and the murder of musician Gary Hinman were definitely staged with false clues that the killers (or perhaps someone else) hoped would be blamed on elements of the "black militant" movement.

Manson has said in interviews that he based some of his philosophy on the science fiction novel Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Hienlien. In a scenario perhaps reminiscent of Mark David Chapman's and John Hinckley's infatuation with Catcher in the Rye, could Stranger in a Strange Land somehow have been Manson's program-trigger mechanism? Was the concept of Helter Skelter part of Manson's program? It is interesting to note how the "science fiction" character of Valentine Michael Smith in Heinlien's Stranger in a Strange Land very closely parallels Manson's own life: Valentine Michael Smith was a human being who returned to Earth after being raised on Mars where he underwent training in the occult arts; Manson was isolated in prison where he also studied the occult extensively and has quipped that he viewed himself as a man with an alien mind after his release from prison in 1967; both Manson and the fictional "Smith" gathered about them a group of followers into a communal lifestyle and practiced a sort of "group mind" telepathy; both attempted to transform the world as we know if via their respective philosophies.

So it came to pass that Charles Manson was stuck in solitary confinement at Folsom Prison when a new inmate was placed in the adjoining cell. It was Tim Leary, who was eventually captured with Joanna Harcourt Smith, who later admitted working for the DEA. "They took you off the streets", Manson informed Leary, "so that I could continue with your work." Charlie couldn't understand how Leary had given so many people acid without trying to "control" them.

With all this in mind, consider that if a ex-convict-turned-hippie like Charles Manson could program people to kill, then why not the U.S. Government?

In the book, Helter Skelter, Manson prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi discussed Manson's programming techniques in depth, likening much of Manson's programming abilities to those used by the U.S. military.

Manson was in prison during the time that the CIA was known to be using inmates at Vacaville prison in the MKULTRA experiments, a fact that leaves one to speculate that perhaps Manson was some sort of mind-controlled guru created by the CIA and set loose against the "subversive" left-wing elements in order to discredit them.

Since his incarceration for the Tate-LaBianca murders, Manson has again served part of his time at Vacaville.

In alot of Manson interviews he will say things like "I'm only what i've been trained to be, I'm only what you thought you" "One interview he said Jimmy Carter made me what I am"

[Lotus Flower]

One of the other things that Manson did possess was an extraordinary charisma - hence why he was also able to control his minions - this is, of course, apart from all the drugs involved.

Why he had this charisma, that seemed to outweigh the ordinary person's amount is another matter, but I have always believed that this is primarily what helped him to gain control of his "followers".

A totally evil individual, that was also totally deluded.

[Tenkay]

One of the other things that Manson did possess was an extraordinary charisma - hence why he was also able to control his minions - this is, of course, apart from all the drugs involved.

Why he had this charisma, that seemed to outweigh the ordinary person's amount is another matter, but I have always believed that this is primarily what helped him to gain control of his "followers".

A totally evil individual, that was also totally deluded.

call me crazy but i don't think he committed any murders, after hearing him talk, and the way he explained things, i don't think he personally committed any murders, maybe an accessory to the murder but not the actual killer, he said "i make music and people are influenced by my music"

[thunkerdrone]

I watched a YouTube of Geraldo interviewing Charles Manson in prison. One thing that struck me was how much Manson reminded me of George W. Bush. Not just his voice,

but even his facial expressions and body language. It would not surprise to find that both of them have been through very similar mental conditioning .

[Lotus Flower]

call me crazy but i don't think he committed any murders, after hearing him talk, and the way he explained things, i don't think he personally committed any murders, maybe an accessory to the murder but not the actual killer, he said "i make music and people are influenced by my music"

His minions committed the murders, he had extreme influence over them.

A very peculiar cult in the darkest way.

From a Wiki site on Manson:

On the night of August 8, 1969, Manson directed Tex Watson to take Family members Atkins, Linda Kasabian, and Patricia Krenwinkel — one of the hitchhikers allegedly picked up by Dennis Wilson[15] — to "that house where Melcher used to live" and "totally destroy everyone in [it], as gruesome as you can."[54][55] He told the girls to do as Tex would instruct them.[52][56]

Manson

[~Cheese~]

I've heard of him and knew some parts of the story.. He is twisted.

Edited November 30, 2007 by ~Cheese~

[el midgetron]

Considering the efforts the government has made exploring mind control, I can believe it.

However, it would be a departure from other suspected MKULTA subjects in that his programing affected other peoples (the family) actions.

[Unlimited]

I actually think charlie and the gang might have been some of the first microchipped killers...

[xCrimsonx]

yep, Manson sounds like a fully blown tripper.

[Atheist God]

If Charles Manson was a part of the MK Ultra program it is highly likely he was only involved in the tests they did with LSD and other psychodelic drugs.

I believe that if he was involved with the CIA they used him as an asset to discredit the the counter culture revolution and anti-war movement. You to show America how crazy drug taking hippies are etc.

[Carcharoth]

I watched a YouTube of Geraldo interviewing Charles Manson in prison. One thing that struck me was how much Manson reminded me of George W. Bush. Not just his voice,

but even his facial expressions and body language. It would not surprise to find that both of them have been through very similar mental conditioning .

Or that Charles Manson is really GWB. The Manson in prison is just a stand-in.

Seriously though, anyone got any more info on the MK ULTRA program? I've never heard of it before, so I'd like some more info about it. I'll do some googling myself too.

[sickpuppy]

watched a YouTube of Geraldo interviewing Charles Manson in prison. One thing that struck me was how much Manson reminded me of George W. Bush. Not just his voice,

but even his facial expressions and body language. It would not surprise to find that both of them have been through very similar mental conditioning .

my thoughts almost exactly..

[thunkerdrone]

Or that Charles Manson is really GWB. The Manson in prison is just a stand-in.

Seriously though, anyone got any more info on the MK ULTRA program? I've never heard of it before, so I'd like some more info about it. I'll do some googling myself too.

go to Google Video and search on MKultra, you will find a great selection of videos to watch on the subject.

[Sadonis]

One of the other things that Manson did possess was an extraordinary charisma - hence why he was also able to control his minions - this is, of course, apart from all the drugs involved.

Why he had this charisma, that seemed to outweigh the ordinary person's amount is another matter, but I have always believed that this is primarily what helped him to gain control of his "followers".

A totally evil individual, that was also totally deluded.

I don't think Manson had much charisma. Any idiot can write a speech and speak the gist of it that may persuade their listeners towards one side of a conflict. If you ever watch Hitler speeches you may notice that he doesn't speak that well. He isn't reciting an Edgar Allen Poe work or anything...he is simply using the correct words at the correct time(time period that is) when Germany was.....in somewhat of a hole.

Manson probably gathered these already somehow mentally defected people and gave them drugs and hate lectures. Do enough LSD and you may start seeing 3D shapes in 2D....try to imagine some guy talking to you while this happens. You believe just about anything...you become somewhat suggestive and the drugs serve only to damage more neurons. Neurons that are severely damaged cannot be repaired so you simply lose them. No problem..you have 100 billion(give or take a few hundred million). But a few hits of LSD can wipe out at least 1/1000th of that. And do you think they took only a "few" hits of it? Think again.

Less neurons means less thought. Less thought means you become very suggestive and you often fail to think things through. Murder someone? No problem...I'm pretty sure it's a good thing.

The truly amazing factor in this whole case are the human brains involved. Not intelligence but the simple altering of the human brain through drugs, violence, isolation and terror that was able to turn some already "damaged" people into killers.

Ask yourself this....would you have done it?

Personally I wouldn't have taken LSD from him in the first place. Secondly I consider myself educated enough to understand when someone is trying to "play" me. I am not easily persuadable. I don't believe in hypnosis at all(if he used anything hypnotic then those people would have to be quite suggestible towards it already). And I....again I wouldn't let him give me LSD. Even if it wasn't him personally...I just wouldn't want to touch anything he touched.

[~ MacDDT ~]

It appears that part of Manson's own supply of LSD may have come directly from the CIA. A new type of LSD known as "Orange Sunshine" was being used by the Manson Family immediately prior to the Tate-LaBianca murders according to Family member Charles "Tex" Watson, who wrote in his prison memoir that it was the use of Orange Sunshine LSD that finally convinced him that Manson's violent, apocalyptic vision was real.

Wow , Can you back up this info? a link or something?

[Lotus Flower]

I don't think Manson had much charisma. Any idiot can write a speech and speak the gist of it that may persuade their listeners towards one side of a conflict. If you ever watch Hitler speeches you may notice that he doesn't speak that well. He isn't reciting an Edgar Allen Poe work or anything...he is simply using the correct words at the correct time(time period that is) when Germany was.....in somewhat of a hole.

Manson probably gathered these already somehow mentally defected people and gave them drugs and hate lectures. Do enough LSD and you may start seeing 3D shapes in 2D....try to imagine some guy talking to you while this happens. You believe just about anything...you become somewhat suggestive and the drugs serve only to damage more neurons. Neurons that are severely damaged cannot be repaired so you simply lose them. No problem..you have 100 billion(give or take a few hundred million). But a few hits of LSD can wipe out at least 1/1000th of that. And do you think they took only a "few" hits of it? Think again.

Less neurons means less thought. Less thought means you become very suggestive and you often fail to think things through. Murder someone? No problem...I'm pretty sure it's a good thing.

The truly amazing factor in this whole case are the human brains involved. Not intelligence but the simple altering of the human brain through drugs, violence, isolation and terror that was able to turn some already "damaged" people into killers.

Ask yourself this....would you have done it?

Personally I wouldn't have taken LSD from him in the first place. Secondly I consider myself educated enough to understand when someone is trying to "play" me. I am not easily persuadable. I don't believe in hypnosis at all(if he used anything hypnotic then those people would have to be quite suggestible towards it already). And I....again I wouldn't let him give me LSD. Even if it wasn't him personally...I just wouldn't want to touch anything he touched.

Well charisma isn't just for the good. A person can be incredibly charismatic for the bad. A person who is powerfully charismatic can influence people to do things that they may have otherwise never have done if just left to their own devices.

I remember reading a book on Charles Manson many years ago, his followers seemed to consider him as some sort of prophet and were in awe of him. Drugs and sex were in abundance in his group. He did have influence over them and many of them were not defective at all.

I think that brainwashing is underestimated and anyone can be caught in such a trap if they do not take notice of that little inner voice that starts to fire off the old alarm bells.

In my mind, Manson was evil to the core.

[sickpuppy]

anyway getting back to topic. (was this used to detract from war story)

it seems a little strange to me.. not dismissing it.. but just wondering about the mechanics of it all..

the populace would resent the war for obvious reasons, how would a new slew of death shift the focus? ..i suppose that is the key element - to shift the focus..

the manson + zodiac killer have elements of mysticism, magic, all that stuff.. i can see how this creates a kind of 'arena' for us modern day savages to spectate.. why the elements of mysticism tho? (assuming these WERE distraction techniques) ..i suppose these are key areas to arouse a humans interest tho?

government mind control techniques seem the most likely modus operandi to me in regard to manson and friends.. the zodiac killer - not sure? again, this one was immersed in mysticism, claimed the neighbours dog would give him instructions and i've also heard it said he was a son (product) of (uncle) sam..

one might say the scott peterson thing drew attention away from the Iraq invasion..?

(memory thing) -- what's going on with this Gary Condit slimebag? heard anything? he seems to have dropped right off the radar..?

[Unlimited]

I think the hole in the wall gang was used in secret microchipping tests...the same killing chips implanted in the navy seals in nam...