Why Debunking and Offensive Posturing is a Wa

[JackalnChainz]

Where do we draw the line SS? It is like any equation. We each submit our theories in descending order on the page. When the OP had disiminated enough information, they will draw a line under the data listed, ascertain the sum, and draw their OWN conclusuion. It is not for us to do that for them.

I found that your post was completely in line with my own. Thanks And even if it wasn't, I would respect your opinion SS. Now go get me a beer. . ~Jackal

Edited November 29, 2007 by JackalnChainz

[NoahJaymes]

We can never draw the line. I agree with SS that if people want to believe its paranormal, they will regardless of what anyone says.

It seems as though people are more acceptable to paranormal explanations than someone offering logical explanations. Nobody ever wants to hallucinate, unless they pay good money for it.

[SS79]

Good post, my thoughts exactly, you know..you really need to stop thinking like me, it can and will get dangerous lol

thanks and i know thats happening way too often for my liking

Where do we draw the line SS? It is like any equation. We each submit our theories in descending order on the page. When the OP had disiminated enough information, they will draw a line under the data listed, ascertain the sum, and draw their OWN conclusuion. It is not for us to do that for them.

I found that your post was completely in line with my own. Thanks And even if it wasn't, I would respect your opinion SS. Now go get me a beer. . ~Jackal

when i say draw the line I man how much do we allow people to delude themselves and the pass that delusion on to others <-- have a feeling you may slate me for that but i'm feeling lucky . some posters aren't able to make there own conclusions . sad fact is soem will swollow anything they are told . our job is to make them learn to look for themselves at all angels and explanations .

blessings SS79 x x x

OOps almost forgot the beer . enjoy

[SS79]

heck double post in my excitement at the prospect of beer

Edited November 29, 2007 by spiritual_soul79

[NoahJaymes]

thanks and i know thats happening way too often for my liking

I know right

[JackalnChainz]

We can never draw the line. I agree with SS that if people want to believe its paranormal, they will regardless of what anyone says.

It seems as though people are more acceptable to paranormal explanations than someone offering logical explanations. Nobody ever wants to hallucinate, unless they pay good money for it.

I believe that is what I just said. THEY draw the line and consider whatever explanations best suit them. As far as only considering the paranormal, I have seen quite the opposite in the last dozen or so threads I have been involved with. More people are going to theor doctors. Which is fine.

And the way you seperate paranormal from logical is telling my friend. Very telling. Belief in the paranormal is not an impedimant. It is not irrational either. And we are getting a bit off topic, but the point is that no matter what explanation, there are other possibilities. And I want to hear them. But I don't want to argue about who is right and wrong in front of the afflicted, especially.

[SS79]

eek another double /triple post

Edited November 29, 2007 by spiritual_soul79

[JackalnChainz]

What I mean is, for example, some people have come here and posted a story with or without a photo, and too many times people make fun of them, or say "It cant be a ghost there is no such thing"..JN

I hear ya, JN! I hate it when that happens! Blanket statements send me into orbit! ~Jackal

[SS79]

I hear ya, JN! I hate it when that happens! Blanket statements send me into orbit! ~Jackal

I agree that makes me seethe also especially when theres no explanation to go with it .

Edited November 29, 2007 by spiritual_soul79

[NoahJaymes]

thanks and i know thats happening way too often for my liking

When i say draw the line I man how much do we allow people to delude themselves and the pass that delusion on to others <-- have a feeling you may slate me for that but i'm feeling lucky .

some posters aren't able to make there own conclusions . sad fact is some will swollow anything they are told . our job is to make them learn to look for themselves at all angles and explanations and to learn that not everything is paranormal . seei was in the same boat once i believed everything i read and was told and its true, i threw any opposing evidence out the window .

but it took me some time and reading a few good posts here helped me a lot

blessings SS79 x x x

OOps almost forgot the beer . enjoy

Why does this sound famaliar Pg 2

[SS79]

. Belief in the paranormal is not an impedimant. It is not irrational either.

of course not. we'd all be afflicted . but believing everything you are told blindly without question is ,

Why does this sound famaliar tongue.gif Pg 2

Its ok i wont tell them you pm me with what too write next lmao

Edited November 29, 2007 by spiritual_soul79

[JackalnChainz]

When i say draw the line I man how much do we allow people to delude themselves and the pass that delusion on to others <-- have a feeling you may slate me for that but i'm feeling lucky .

some posters aren't able to make there own conclusions . sad fact is some will swollow anything they are told . our job is to make them learn to look for themselves at all angles and explanations and to learn that not everything is paranormal .

blessings SS79 x x x

OOps almost forgot the beer . enjoy

You're not so lucky as you think.

Number one...this isn't a job, or even within anyones sphere of responsibility. If it was, the admin would have fired everyone here several times over. You don't allow anyone to do anything. You are not their mother, or king, or anything else but a series of binary codes interpreted as an opinion on the internet. THIS IS ONLY THE INTERNET, YOU KNOW?

If they wish to delude themselves, it is none of your business. All you can do is offer your opinion, and even suggestions if they are so receptive. When did this forum become a field hospital? Why do people in here feel they are the only answer to questions that men have asked for centuries? I was under the assumption that a forum is acommon ground for people of a common theory to openly present and discuss ideas relative to that idea or theory. Not sit in judgement and attempt to solve the paranormal dilemmas of the world. Some of these people are investigators. Some are even doctors. Most are just regular people that have had some experience with the paranormal...or some experience giving others a hard time and this is prime hunting grounds.

We are not here to teach. We are not here to heal. If we are, we better start getting some disclaimers at the heading, and a sh**load of malpractice insurance. lol. We are here to discuss. And occassionally we share our insights with those that have questions. It's entertainment. Nothing more. ~Jackal

If anyone has any doubts about the validity of my statement, you might ask the webmaster exactly what role this forum has. JNC

Edited November 29, 2007 by JackalnChainz

[NoahJaymes]

of course not. we'd all be afflicted . but believing everything you are told blindly without question is ,

Agreed.

I think it also boils down to the OP and their reputation. Say like, I myself post something strange and Paranormal infested. I'd hope you all would feel comfortable as I would accept, any observation given. Being an avid poster such as myself, you would be a little bit more comfortable telling me what is really on your mind rather than trying to save possible harm to the OP.

If the poster is someone new and you can clearly tell they are young in age, of course we must take extreme caution on both ends of the spectrum. Refraining from seem-like bashing and appointing inaccurate although theorized statements. Being at a young age, one is more acceptable to believe in just about anything. Being much older, such as myself, Jackal, SS, JN etc, I believe we are more inclined to make our own judgement with each post given.

I go through these stints where I absolutely get frustrated with the same mindless babble given in each tread. As if someone uses the same experience to theorize each claim however different or semi- similar the claim may or may not be.

[SS79]

You're not so lucky as you think.

Number one...this isn't a job, or even within anyones sphere of responsibility. If it was, the admin would have fired everyone here several times over. You don't allow anyone to do anything. You are not their mother, or king, or anything else but a series of binary codes interpreted as an opinion on the internet. THIS IS ONLY THE INTERNET, YOU KNOW?

If they wish to delude themselves, it is none of your business. All you can do is offer your opinion, and even suggestions if they are so receptive. When did this forum become a field hospital? Why do people in here feel they are the only answer to questions that men have asked for centuries? I was under the assumption that a forum is acommon ground for people of a common theory to openly present and discuss ideas relative to that idea or theory. Not sit in judgement and attempt to solve the paranormal dilemmas of the world. Some of these people are investigators. Some are even doctors. Most are just regular people that have had some experience with the paranormal...or some experience giving others a hard time and this is prime hunting grounds.

We are not here to teach. We are not here to heal. If we are, we better start getting some disclaimers at the heading, and a sh**load of malpractice insurance. lol. We are here to discuss. And occassionally we share our insights with those that have questions. Nothing more. ~Jackal

OUCH JAcKAL LOL

What i'm saying is its okay for them to believe anything they so wish but they are trying to pass these beliefs off as fact . when clearly most of them aren't fact ,

you said yourself you sometimes don't take into account the age of the poster and i'm sure lots dont and No i may not be there mother but i think if i can help one person to get over there fear of SP or soemthing else they may have by showing them evidence that points to something non paranormal then i've done a good job wether the believers or skeptics like it or not .

I would hope we as adults could all show some responsibility when posting .

No ones saying we should solve all there problems. some problems have already been sorted out ie sleep paralysis has loads of evidence to back it up .yet some still fail to see it a lot of the time . so this is deluding themselves to think this is paranormal and carry on this way is it not ?? so by telling one person and changing their view we can stop that spreading to others so that more people can understand and become more knowaedgable about what is and what isn't paranormal to begin with .

blessings SS79 x x x

Edited November 29, 2007 by spiritual_soul79

[SS79]

Being much older, such as myself, Jackal, SS, JN etc, I believe we are more inclined to make our own judgement with each post given.

i resent the MUCH older comment take it back

but other than that your right

[NoahJaymes]

I was moreless implying being 25+ rather than 13-18 age range.

[SS79]

I was moreless implying being 25+ rather than 13-18 age range.

LITTLE bit older then . i don't know about you but im still 18 in my head

but i've got the wrinkle cream on stand by in case YOU need it

i knew what you were meaning though

Edited November 29, 2007 by spiritual_soul79

[JackalnChainz]

OUCH JAcKAL LOL

What i'm saying is its okay for them to believe anything they so wish but they are trying to pass these beliefs off as fact . when clearly most of them aren't fact ,

you said yourself you sometimes don't take into account the age of the poster and i'm sure lots dont and No i may not be there mother but i think if i can help one person to get over there fear of SP or soemthing else they may have by showing them evidence that points to something non paranormal then i've done a good job wether the believers or skeptics like it or not .

I would hope we as adults could all show some responsibility when posting .

No ones saying we should solve all there problems. some problems have already been sorted out ie sleep paralysis has loads of evidence to back it up .yet some still fail to see it a lot of the time . so this is deluding themselves to think this is paranormal and carry on this way is it not ?? so by telling one preson and changing their view we can stop that spreading to others so that more people can understand and become more knowledgable about what is and what isn't paranormal to begin with .

blessings SS79 x x x

I wish I knew how you separated your quote lines.

You seem to be saying that if it is paranormal in origin, that it can not be fact, or a factual statement. If I read that right. This is entering the "prove it" argument, which I am not going there. You can't disprove it. lol.

I understand you viewpoint my friend. However, you have no binding contract to offer anything, true or not. And it certainly is nobodies business to determine whos' statements are factual or not. Really...we need to come back to earth here. And that sounds SOOOOO strange coming from the believer in the paranormal...but really! lol. If I think there's a demon involved and say so, who are you to dispute me? You can't prove one way or the other. And that is the entire main message of this thread. If you are strung out on lsd, and halucinating and hospitalized. And you think a ghost slapped you, just because you are messed up doesn't mean one didn't.

Let them delude themselves. I don't see it as deluding, and I certainly don't see you as their savior or educator. I'm not being harsh, just straight forward, as I feel comfortable in doing so with you. Offer your opinion. that is all you can do. I remember once, when I was a young security guard at a bank. I helped an old man whos' car had stalled in front, by pushing his car. The Captain got all over me about it. I said, "hey, I have a moral obligation to help" He said, "that kind of talk will get us sued!" and sadly, in this day and time, he was right.

But if you think you must save the world (from themselves even) then go right ahead. I see great promise for you in government work. I here Massachusetts is debating whether or not people should be allowed to spank their own kids. lol

Edited November 29, 2007 by JackalnChainz

[JackalnChainz]

Hey! What's he mean by "much older"?

[SS79]

LMAO

No i dont have a binding contract . i personally like to help if thats what it is by giving my opinion . i suffered sleep paralysis i know how it is i know how scary it is . i hope, i and others here can help some overcome that fear .

No i can't dispute you think it's a demon but i have every right to question your reasoning behind coming to that conclusion as you do me . if i don't then thats like you closing yourself off too other possibilities and opinions which differ from your own .

So are you saying that all these threads here in which people advise others not to approach or provoke demons is not educating in a way are they not trying to be their savior as you put it . their only doing the same as me when you all point people in the direction of help with demonics. its just that we happen to point them in different directions doesn't mean your right and im wrong does it ?

blessings SS79 x x x

I think we may end up going round in circles for a while here i'm willing to agree to disagree for the sake of the skin on my fingers

Blessings and much respect jackal

SS79 x x x

Edited November 29, 2007 by spiritual_soul79

[NoahJaymes]

By much older, in your aspect, I mean near fossilized jk

[SS79]

By much older, in your aspect, I mean near fossilized jk

[Lolipopkid]

Why Debunking and Offensive Posturing is a Waste of Time

Read the OP before you get all bent

This is not to say that debunking, within the parameters of this forum, is a useless activity. Only that people should realize, that just because a viable and reasonable explanation is found, doesn't mean that it is the only and correct one. We have all witnessed the recent sleep disorder, Sleep paralysis, being attributed to almost everything presented in this forum, if in fact, the Op indicates the person was or had been asleep, or was near a bedroom or it was that time of night, etc etc. I have conceded, that although I know little about the disorder, it most likely is the answer to many of the cases presented in this forum. BUT NOT ALL OF THEM. It is statistically impossible. However, I trust my friends that are in the field of psychology, like Natalie, and yeild to their prognosis most often. I have a great deal of respect for our mental health professionals. But, although it may make the most sense, it doesn't necessarily make it so. Just because there is loose insulation in the attic and a crack in the ceiling, doesn't mean that is the only answer for an orb photograph. It is highly likely, but not the only possibility.

I think most of you realize because of my background, that I view demonics similar to the way I view the criminal element, and conducted my investigations thusly. In my minds eye, I can picture the devils, laughing, with a built in alibi waiting. All their handiwork is now attributed to mental disorders. I've even seen bite marks on the neck imputed to the victim. Ridiculous! Mental health therapy and medicinal solutions seem to be the answer to all of the things that go bump in the night. I'm not sure, however, that the OP was seeking advise from this perspective when they entered *Unexplained Mysteries*. They can find those answers in any book of Yellow Pages. But I do feel this perspective has a viable role in the path to a positive outcome.

Moreover, and in conclusion, I believe our individual contributions to those seeking answers should be in the context of suggestions, from insight and practical experience. I hardly see the need to debate among eachother, the validity of individual claims, as this is the role of the OP. And it also makes us appear without unity and at odds. If I agree with a post, I will so state. If I disagree with a post, I will also state this, and the reason why. I refuse to enter into a p***ing match with another UM member personally, regarding their theories. That is not to say that I won't become excited over their method of delivery, but I respect each persons opinion and their combined hypotheses in the over all solution seeking process. So with this in mind, it should be remembered, that a case isn't closed simply because a rational explanation is offered. Every avenue should be explored. Remember the bumper sticker...Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean someone isn't really watching you.

What do you think? ~Jackal

I think if some one is really watching me they are incredibly bored...hehe

[JackalnChainz]

LMAO

No i dont have a binding contract . i personally like to help if thats what it is by giving my opinion . i suffered sleep paralysis i know how it is i know how scary it is . i hope, i and others here can help some overcome that fear .

No i can't dispute you think it's a demon but i have every right to question your reasoning behind coming to that conclusion as you do me . if i don't then thats like you closing yourself off too other possibilities and opinions which differ from your own .

So are you saying that all these threads here in which people advise others not to approach or provoke demons is not educating in a way are they not trying to be their savior as you put it . their only doing the same as me when you all point people in the direction of help with demonics. its just that we happen to point them in different directions doesn't mean your right and im wrong does it ?

blessings SS79 x x x

I think we may end up going round in circles for a while here i'm willing to agree to disagree for the sake of the skin on my fingers

Blessings and much respect jackal

SS79 x x x

Aight din Right back at ya girl.

Edited November 29, 2007 by JackalnChainz

[NoahJaymes]

Agree to disagree, always a good way out