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rhyknow

Iran welcomes US nuclear report

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stevewinn
1 how is Iran getting in the way of our interests? :blink: you mean your interest in that oil...2 I ask again when did Iran attack anyone?...3 where does this fear everyone has of lil ol Iran come from?...bush and his propoganda for starters...

1

Iran is getting in the way of our interests, which can be in number of ways, i dont think oil is the main reason we've secured the oil in Iraq, but maybe the shipping lanes they pose a threat to, also the political leverage a nuclear Iran would have in the region is damaging to our interests in that part of the world, trouble in this day and age is you need to find a good reason to sell to the people before you take action in the interests of the country,

2

I cant think of anyone in living memory only Iraq in their war. but could the reason also be that Iran is a weak country and has never had the military ability to attack another country, because lets face it the Iran-Iraq war was fought in WW1 style, but if they had a nuclear weapon they'd have the military ability to attack another country,

3

the Iranian problem was first picked up on the radar in the 70's then when they had their happy hour in 1979 thats when people started to worry, then the IAEA started to get involved in 2001, so its not all Bush Bush Bush, you should read the UN resolutions most of the proposals are from the EU 3, if you forget about the news and just looked at the UN resolution list it shows the big pushes at the UN are Great Britain, France and Germany,

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Unlimited

But the Iranians have complied with the IAEA ..what else can they do to find a peaceful way?...because they are different they are still humans..

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coughymachine
... i dont think oil is the main reason we've secured the oil in Iraq...

I don't want to gatecrash your exchange with Unlimited - and notwithstanding the fact that you probably didn't express this as you'd intended - you can't be serious about this point, can you?

Surely we all know by now that oil was precisely why we went into Iraq. As Alan Greenspan said recently...

I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil

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Spurious George

Not to mention Iran offered to come clean, stop financing militant/terror groups and normalize relations with the US after 9/11, but the Bush administration wasnt going to have any of that... they just got their Pearl Harbour type event and had grandiose plans in the works, plans so grand that Iran playing nice wasnt acceptable. But of course then came Iraq where some dudes in sandals, making home-made bombs stopped them dead in their tracks... so the US blamed Iran for training and arming them, well until the US started buying their loyalty and now they are good guys and Iran is now blamed for supporting the very groups that the US put into power in Iraq :wacko:

US foreign policy is so stupid that it will eventually fall on its own sword, you just got to sit back and let em do their thing :)

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Spurious George
Surely we all know by now that oil was precisely why we went into Iraq. As Alan Greenspan said recently...

And retired Army General John Abizaid said recently, "Of course it's about oil, we can't really deny that."

And of course thats what the majority of the world was saying from the very beginning ^_^

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stevewinn
But the Iranians have complied with the IAEA ..what else can they do to find a peaceful way?...because they are different they are still humans..

Not fully, the UN's latest report the 15th Nov 2007, does say Iran is helping in some regards to nuclear plans from the 90's but it says that Iran is not providing all the information the IAEA require and has a result their information on up todate program is diminishing, plus they havent got access to a number of plants especially the new heavy water plant being built the IAEA are relying on sattelite images, also they can not confirm the program isnt for nuclear weapons, but have seen no evidence that its not for peaceful means, with answers like that you have to make your own mind up,

I don't want to gatecrash your exchange with Unlimited - and notwithstanding the fact that you probably didn't express this as you'd intended - you can't be serious about this point, can you?

Surely we all know by now that oil was precisely why we went into Iraq. As Alan Greenspan said recently...

Yes i was serious about we've secured the Iraqi oil fields, i done a post about it many many moons ago, why i feel the invasion was justified for oil, in short it was along the lines of we need to secure the countries growing need for oil, and how every single item in our everyday life needed oil at one point, and people who moan about the war being for oil well, so what you'd all be moaning if the price of every day items went through the roof, but it was a long time ago when i posted it,

To add, i bought the whole 45 minutes claim and the oil was the second reason, so i didnt mean the war was justified for oil alone.

Edited by stevewinn

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Bob26003

Thank the Good Lord....

I bet the Neocons are upset about this. :angry:

As we all know they are just itching to go forward with their plan of regime change and exploitation. At the cost of the American Taxpayers and Soldiers mind you.

As well as countless innocent Iranians.

These people are War criminals if you asked me. Pure aggressors.

So what will be the next talking point?

Spreading Democracy?

Edited by Bob26003

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Bob26003

I heard there was a conference in which the Arabs gave some concessions concerning the Dollar as reserve currencies in exchange for backing off Iran.

I also heard there was an Israeli Palestine conference in Annapolis.

Anybody have any insight into the behind the scenes negotiations?

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AROCES
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. But at least wait until we have evidence that they are trying to develop them. Right now, we don't.

Fine, and in the mean time we just not worry, pull out of Iraq, leave the Middle East and make sure Bush and co don't ever profit.

We redirect tax revenue to domestic programs and show the whole world we want peace and will mind our own business.

And when we just get surprised by a nuke detonation one day then we just have to keep our guards up and make sure we don't make anyone angry or angrier by reacting to it.

Now America will be respected and not be hated.

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AROCES
people who are just in ' attack Iran ' mode obviously are unwilling or incapable of looking at facts but are running of fear and propaganda. It is the same thinking that took us illegally into Iraq. Mob mentality. Mobs don't tend to think.

Actually the real mob was hanged by the Iranians.

Why did congress vote in the first place if it was illegal?

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AROCES
And retired Army General John Abizaid said recently, "Of course it's about oil, we can't really deny that."

And of course thats what the majority of the world was saying from the very beginning ^_^

The interest in the Middle East is Oil alright.

But the Military action was about WMD.

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Q24
The interest in the Middle East is Oil alright.

But the Military action was about WMD.

That's an absolute classic Aroces!

How anybody could say the above two statements together with a straight face I don't know. :lol:

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AROCES
Thank the Good Lord....

I bet the Neocons are upset about this. :angry:

As we all know they are just itching to go forward with their plan of regime change and exploitation. At the cost of the American Taxpayers and Soldiers mind you.

As well as countless innocent Iranians.

These people are War criminals if you asked me. Pure aggressors.

So what will be the next talking point?

Spreading Democracy?

Hold your horses here.

Iran is still enriching uranium and still not cooperating with the International watch group on nuclear weapons.

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AROCES
That's an absolute classic Aroces!

How anybody could say the above two statements together with a straight face I don't know. :lol:

Simple, just say it as it is without any anger or bitterness.

Edited by AROCES

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Q24
Simple, just say it as it is. Not with any anger or bitterness.

For one reason or another you really don't get it. Maybe if I break it down: -

  1. The interest in the Middle East is Oil alright.
  2. The West could not say they were going to war for oil
  3. But the Military action was about WMD.
  4. There were no WMDs found and neither is there evidence Iran have any

It is very simple - the WMD, the nuke development and other such stories pushed by the West are the excuse to get to that Middle East oil. Surely you can see that Aroces? Though I know people have explained to you a thousand times before without success... so maybe not.

I'm not even saying that it's a bad long term strategy on the US part.

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AROCES
For one reason or another you really don't get it. Maybe if I break it down: -

  1. The West could not say they were going to war for oil
  2. There were no WMDs found and neither is there evidence Iran have any

It is very simple - the WMD, the nuke development and other such stories pushed by the West are the excuse to get to that Middle East oil. Surely you can see that Aroces? Though I know people have explained to you a thousand times before without success... so maybe not.

I'm not even saying that it's a bad long term strategy on the US part.

Our interest is Oil alright. And we want the FREE FLOW of it in the FREE MARKET undisrupted, that is our INTEREST.

The thing is you listen to those who say we are stealing Oil.

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Q24
Our interest is Oil alright. And we want the FREE FLOW of it in the FREE MARKET undisrupted, that is our INTEREST.

The thing is you listen to those who say we are stealing Oil.

So you do see what the Middle East conflicts are really about. Why not drop the pretence it is about WMDs and nuclear developments then? I could see why the average citizen would carry on with this line, but the people who visit this forum including yourself are generally more aware of all the facts, so no excuses.

I do not think anyone is 'stealing' oil, just securing the best supply lines and rates for their interests whilst disregarding what is best for all other countries. It is about putting 'number one' first and if that means destroying other countries in the process, so be it. Whether that is acceptable or not depends upon where exactly you stand and upon the equality you believe there should or should not be between people in the world.

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joc
QUOTE (Ins0mniac @ Dec 4 2007, 03:03 PM) *

Have you ever stopped and wondered WHY so many Arabs hate?

Exactly what I was going to say - there is usually good underlying reason for hatred. This should be taken full account of when judging the attitude of some Arabs/Middle Easterners to the West.

You are both quite wrong. Yes actually, I have pondered why people hate...Arabs as well. One major reason the Arabs hatred of the Jews is such is because the adults teach their children to hate.

Quite frankly...your arguments about WHY anyone hates are moot. Hate is a problem of the hater...not the hated.

Let me state that again:

Hate is a problem of the hater...NOT the hated!

With your logic all American Blacks should hate all American Whites because of the slavery issue...how absurd. If Israel moved to Alaska and gave the Arabs the entire country they would still hate the Jews.

I'm sorry that your thought processes have not understood the entire logic of hate....Hate is of the hater and has nothing to do with the hated.

QUOTE (stevewinn @ Dec 4 2007, 04:48 PM) *

Iran is getting in the way of our interests,

how is Iran getting in the way of our interests? blink.gif you mean your interest in that oil...I ask again when did Iran attack anyone?...where does this fear everyone has of lil ol Iran come from?...bush and his propoganda for starters...

Dude, it is no secret that Iran funds Hezbollah. It is no secret that the Insurgency we are fighting in Iraq came from Iran. It is no secret that Iran took American Hostages and have been extremely hostile for the last 30 years. It is no secret that their President wants Armageddon and has said that Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth.

Where have you been not to be aware of the above?

Edited by joc

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Q24
Hate is a problem of the hater...NOT the hated!

So when an injustice is committed against a person or group thus causing them to hate, it is unreasonable?

With your logic all American Blacks should hate all American Whites because of the slavery issue...how absurd.

What if slavery were still present today in the US? In the same way that the oppression of the Palestinians by Israel is going on today, in the way that foreign military forces are occupying Arab lands today.

Dude, it is no secret that Iran funds Hezbollah.

People need to look deeper than making a statement and assuming it is a crime. Where do Hezbollah come from? Why do Iran fund Hezbollah?

It is no secret that the Insurgency we are fighting in Iraq came from Iran.

The insurgency in Iraq is from Iraq. Sure there are Iranian arms in the country but so too are there Afghan, Saudi Arabian, Syrian, Russian, Chinese, even American and above all others Iraqi weapons in Iraq. The borders are notoriously porous in the Middle East. The fact the media currently focuses on the Iranian side of things is down to Western agendas.

It is no secret that Iran took American Hostages and have been extremely hostile for the last 30 years.

Again, people need to look into the original Western meddling which brought the Iran hostage crisis about. It wasn't exactly coincidence it was the American embassy involved rather than another.

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joc
So when an injustice is committed against a person or group thus causing them to hate, it is unreasonable?

Your premise is wrong. Hatred is not an external thing...it is internal. No one can 'cause' you to hate. If you hate...it comes from within, not from without.

What if slavery were still present today in the US? In the same way that the oppression of the Palestinians by Israel is going on today, in the way that foreign military forces are occupying Arab lands today.

It isn't. The Palestinians aren't oppressed. They are 'suppressed' and they are being 'suppressed' because they keep blowing themselves up in market places and such.

People need to look deeper than making a statement and assuming it is a crime. Where do Hezbollah come from? Why do Iran fund Hezbollah?
Hezbollah is an organization designed to wage war against the Jews. Iran funds them because Iran hates Israel and seeks the destruction of Israel. They seek their destruction...not because they hate them (which they do) but rather to dominate the entire Middle East...which they cannot do as long as Israel exists.

The insurgency in Iraq is from Iraq. Sure there are Iranian arms in the country but so too are there Afghan, Saudi Arabian, Syrian, Russian, Chinese, even American and above all others Iraqi weapons in Iraq. The borders are notoriously porous in the Middle East. The fact the media currently focuses on the Iranian side of things is down to Western agendas.

The borders are porous...no dude...OUR borders are porous. Iran is behind the insurgency...all intelligence points to that.

Again, people need to look into the original Western meddling which brought the Iran hostage crisis about. It wasn't exactly coincidence it was the American embassy involved rather than another.

Dude. You are right. We meddled in The Middle East. How atrocious of us. In retrospect...we should have left the nomads in the desert nomads and not turned them into power hungry meglomaniacal sheiks.

Again, your premise is wrong. It is not the school kids fault that the bully beats him up. Read your own history books Captain!

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AROCES
So you do see what the Middle East conflicts are really about. Why not drop the pretence it is about WMDs and nuclear developments then? I could see why the average citizen would carry on with this line, but the people who visit this forum including yourself are generally more aware of all the facts, so no excuses.

Oh really, North Korea is not about Oil at all. so if you think we only do it for Oil and never for WMD threat then explain N korea.

The Cuban missile crisis, that was not about oil.

I do not think anyone is 'stealing' oil, just securing the best supply lines and rates for their interests whilst disregarding what is best for all other countries. It is about putting 'number one' first and if that means destroying other countries in the process, so be it. Whether that is acceptable or not depends upon where exactly you stand and upon the equality you believe there should or should not be between people in the world.

Disregarding what is best for all other countries?

Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Jordan are Middle Eastern countries that are doing very well because of the Oil that they produce. So stop blaming the United States for any country that is not doing well with the Oil resources they have.

Edited by AROCES

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Q24
Your premise is wrong. Hatred is not an external thing...it is internal. No one can 'cause' you to hate. If you hate...it comes from within, not from without.

So in your opinion, hatred is a conscious decision that people may choose to manifest for no particular reason? Would you not hate a group if they destroyed your home, took your livelihood, killed your family and ruined your life joc?

It isn't. The Palestinians aren't oppressed. They are 'suppressed' and they are being 'suppressed' because they keep blowing themselves up in market places and such.

Palestinians blow themselves up in market places and such, Israel drop bombs from US supplied warplanes - is one really better than the other? In any case the question stands – whether the Palestinians are oppressed or suppressed do you not think that fuels Arab hatred?

Hezbollah is an organization designed to wage war against the Jews. Iran funds them because Iran hates Israel and seeks the destruction of Israel. They seek their destruction...not because they hate them (which they do) but rather to dominate the entire Middle East...which they cannot do as long as Israel exists.

Hezbollah was designed as a resistance movement when Israel invaded and occupied Lebanese territory in 1985. The original groups and individuals which came to form Hezbollah included some of those expelled from Palestine during the creation of the State of Israel. You do see that without the creation of the State of Israel and leading on, without the aggression and expansionism of that state, there could be no Hezbollah?

The borders are porous...no dude...OUR borders are porous. Iran is behind the insurgency...all intelligence points to that.

You know there is zero evidence of the Iranian government supporting an ‘insurgency’ in Iraq? Do you know that Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki recently described Tehran as playing a “positive and constructive” role in Iraq? Similar to Hezbollah, you realise there could be no ‘insurgency’ without a foreign occupying force in Iraq?

Dude. You are right. We meddled in The Middle East. How atrocious of us. In retrospect...we should have left the nomads in the desert nomads and not turned them into power hungry meglomaniacal sheiks.

So you do know the seeds of the Iran hostage crisis were sewn as far back as Operation Ajax, carried out by Britain and the US in 1953? In that case you would know that the situation came not from ‘leaving nomads in the desert’ or whatever you are talking about, but, as usual, from a Western interest in Middle Eastern oil.

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joc
So in your opinion, hatred is a conscious decision that people may choose to manifest for no particular reason? Would you not hate a group if they destroyed your home, took your livelihood, killed your family and ruined your life joc?

Palestinians blow themselves up in market places and such, Israel drop bombs from US supplied warplanes - is one really better than the other? In any case the question stands – whether the Palestinians are oppressed or suppressed do you not think that fuels Arab hatred?

Hezbollah was designed as a resistance movement when Israel invaded and occupied Lebanese territory in 1985. The original groups and individuals which came to form Hezbollah included some of those expelled from Palestine during the creation of the State of Israel. You do see that without the creation of the State of Israel and leading on, without the aggression and expansionism of that state, there could be no Hezbollah?

You know there is zero evidence of the Iranian government supporting an ‘insurgency’ in Iraq? Do you know that Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki recently described Tehran as playing a “positive and constructive” role in Iraq? Similar to Hezbollah, you realise there could be no ‘insurgency’ without a foreign occupying force in Iraq?

So you do know the seeds of the Iran hostage crisis were sewn as far back as Operation Ajax, carried out by Britain and the US in 1953? In that case you would know that the situation came not from ‘leaving nomads in the desert’ or whatever you are talking about, but, as usual, from a Western interest in Middle Eastern oil.

What I know is that you are not a friend of Israel. What I know is that you are more than just sympathetic to the Palestinians. And that my friend is all that I need to know.

You recognize hate as something that someone causes you to do. I recognize hate as a choice we each must make. I choose not to hate. Jesus chose not to hate.

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Q24
Oh really, North Korea is not about Oil at all. so if you think we only do it for Oil and never for WMD threat then explain N korea.

The Cuban missile crisis, that was not about oil.

Both of the above were about the power struggle between the US and Soviet Union. If you are referring to the current day North Korea situation - well they really do have nuclear weapons and I see no clamour there from the US for a military campaign.

Disregarding what is best for all other countries?

Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Jordan are Middle Eastern countries that are doing very well because of the Oil that they produce. So stop blaming the United States for any country that is not doing well with the Oil resources they have.

Yes it is peculiar the US and Saudi Arabia get on so seemingly well considering the Saudi general dislike of Israel and the fact most of the 9/11 'hijackers' were from that country. Perhaps it is due to the Saudi foreign policy being compliant with the Wests oil needs from an early stage?

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Q24
What I know is that you are not a friend of Israel. What I know is that you are more than just sympathetic to the Palestinians. And that my friend is all that I need to know.

I am not a friend or enemy of Israel or the Palestinians, I just ask a lot of questions.

You recognize hate as something that someone causes you to do. I recognize hate as a choice we each must make. I choose not to hate. Jesus chose not to hate.

Can you answer the question - how would you react if a group destroyed your home, took your livelihood, killed your family and ruined your life joc?

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