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UK Banning Samurai Swords


KingTomis

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Just an addendum to my previous post Bob.... I doubt that banning handguns in the UK had much impact on crime. You've got to remember that the UK has NEVER allowed gun ownership in the way that you have in the USA. Private individuals could posses handguns legaly, but only under very tight controls. They where NEVER allowed to carry them around (indeed, they had to be stored in specialy designed secure cabinets whillst at home, and could only be transported in a similar cabinet in the owners car boot. Even then, they could only be transported to/from recognised events. (sporting gun events, collecters fairs etc).

If memory serves me, the owner of a handgun wasn't even allowed to posses ammunition - this had to be stored/collected from the nearby police station ? (and even then, only when travelling to a documented/authorised event).

Hence - prior to the ban - gun crime in the UK was almost exclusively the province of criminals using unlicensed, illegal weapons. The exception was shotguns - the laws on these where SLIGHTLY more relaxed, in that farmers and gamekeepers where allowed to keep both gun and ammunition together. There where occasional stories of a deranged farmer shooting his daughters boyfriend etc, but that was about it.

Hence - as I understand it - the ban had no real effect on underlying gun crime.

Meow Purr.

Interesting. Thanks for the insights :tu:

So how many school massacres have you guys had over there?

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It seems the uk is out to ban any weapons a law abiding citizen may own?...i smell a takeover its probably that ruddy european union....

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It seems the uk is out to ban any weapons a law abiding citizen may own?...i smell a takeover its probably that ruddy european union....

Yeah, cause the ability to own handguns and swords has really stopped the criminal vultures from taking over the US. :rolleyes:

;)

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Yeah, cause the ability to own handguns and swords has really stopped the criminal vultures from taking over the US. :rolleyes:

;)

no but it's stopped crooked politicians from taking away all our rights like bush wanted...gun ownership is important to keep the government in check...

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no but it's stopped crooked politicians from taking away all our rights like bush wanted...gun ownership is important to keep the government in check...

You know, I hear you and you have a point.

But in reality, do you really think a SWAT team or a trained Military with serious firepower is not going to kick in your door because of pistol?

I mean, you saw how easy it was to take away peoples homes and guns during Katrina.

Didn't help them any.

Edited by Bob26003
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Interesting. Thanks for the insights :tu:

So how many school massacres have you guys had over there?

Hardly any. One that I can think of which was the Dunblane Massacre that was tragic, really deeply shocking. 16 young children and a teacher in a primary school gym, making the children all under 11 years old. :hmm:

There was also the Hungerford massacre where a nutter walked around a town shooting whomever he met..... There is more information on this and "gun politics" here: Gun politics UK

Edited by Lottie
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Again, recall that the OPA related to events in the UK, not the USA. Subjects in the UK have NEVER really had gun or knife ownership in the way that you have in the USA. HM Government has NEVER sanctioned the existence of an armed populace.

Bringing it back to Samurai swords.... I presume you are aware than in Feudal Japan, it was DEATH for a peasant to own such an implement ? (which is why martial arts developed - it allowed the peasantry some means of defending themselves , either barehanded, or with agricultural tools such as rice flails and staffs). Swords where exclusively the province of the ruling classes.

So you could argue that HM Government is merely restoring an ancient (albeit alien) tradition :P

Meow Purr.

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Just curious........ Can any of you Right Wingers answer my question?

How much has crime decreased since the UK banned handguns?

And what is the crime rate in the UK less or more than in America?

Gun crime as increased ten fold sense the hand gun ban, criminals never had licences anyway? as usual it was law abiding citizens who suffered, it wasn't that hard to get a FAC (fire arms certificate) for a hand gun, and they could be carried concealed, with one bullet in the chamber, ammo & gun had to be kept in separate cabinets at home, technically hand guns haven't been banned, you have to justify why you should own a hand gun, and some people can, i owned and carried a .38 webley & scott for many years and can still do so if i wish.

If you want details PM me.

It's very easy to get a licence for a rifle or shot gun, you have a very good chance of surviving a hand gun shot a close range, with a shot gun your dead.

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So how many school massacres have you guys had over there?

Hardly any because they cant find any kids to massacre because most are wagging school and becoming uneducated hoodies :P jk

Edited by chaoszerg
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Just curious........ Can any of you Right Wingers answer my question?

How much has crime decreased since the UK banned handguns?

And what is the crime rate in the UK less or more than in America?

sigh

the various law reforms did nothing to lower crime rates (or more particularly, murder rates) afaik they have been steadily climbing over the years

the UK has lower rates of homicide and rape, it has higher rates of assault, robbery and what not

all these statistics mean jack since the UK has historically had a low murder rate to begin with although the trend in the US seems to be downwards (last i checked).

Regardless, banning guns and/or other weapons won't stop incidents that are a reflection of cultural and social problems. You can't stop antisocial behaviour (which is basically what we are discussing) in its various forms by making more things illegal, it doesn't work that way.

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let them fight with butter knives...i guess thats the monarchys position?>..seriously most people who have samurai swords are collectors...do you go to peoples homes and get the samurai warriors?.. :blink:

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"In the wrong hands, samurai swords are dangerous weapons," Home Office Minister Vernon Coaker said.
In the wrong hands, so are rocks. You know, humans were killing each other off long before the advent of crafted weapons.

I guess what this new law is saying that it is still legal to kill someone, you just can't use a sword??? I don't get it. Will baning swords put criminals out of business?

SNAKE: Hey, Spike, I'd love to go rob that bank with you today and maybe kill a few people but, did you know that you can go to jail for using an illegal sword in the commission of a crime!?!

SPIKE: WHAT!?! You can go to jail for that? Well, no fear, I know where we can go get some black market rocks, pointy sticks and if we've got enough cash, maybe even a board with a nail in it!

SNAKE: You are so devious, Spike!

SPIKE: Yeah, and after we sand the serial numbers of the rocks, they're totally untracable too!

Britain, there is no wonder you lost your empire. It's also why the U.S. will never have one./ Not enough common sence left to run one.

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So how many school massacres have you guys had over there?

for what its worth, spree style shootings appear to be the domain of the US, though they only make up a tiny tiny fraction of the total homicide rate

elsewhere they are even rarer, the rate of gun ownership appears to have no correlating effect on how often these incidents occur.

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for what its worth, spree style shootings appear to be the domain of the US, though they only make up a tiny tiny fraction of the total homicide rate

elsewhere they are even rarer, the rate of gun ownership appears to have no correlating effect on how often these incidents occur.

Actually gun ownership and lack laws do contribute to homicide rates and school shooting because they make guns more accessible to would be shooters and criminals etc. How can someone shoot up a school if they can't get access to a gun?

Nations that have higher gun ownership then other also have higher incidents of homicide as a result of shooting per capita.

It's not the weapons in particular thats the problem it's who has access to them along with improper storage methods.

If someone breaks into your house and they find guns or even swords they will get ripped off... (it happens here all the time)

These weapons then end up on the streets and into the hands of people they shouldn't.

People shouldn't be that outraged that Katanas may become illegal in the UK since they serve no practical purpose.

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If someone breaks into your house and they find guns or even swords they will get ripped off... (it happens here all the time)

These weapons then end up on the streets and into the hands of people they shouldn't.

That's assuming the house is unoccupied...or they could break in and find an angry house owner holding a samurai sword...

People shouldn't be that outraged that Katanas may become illegal in the UK since they serve no practical purpose.

In the absence of hand guns, a samurai sword makes a nice practical self-defence weapon.

Of course it's the authorities job to protect the public.. but they can't be everywhere at once.. so it's impractical to expect protection from them all of the time.

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You can't stop antisocial behaviour (which is basically what we are discussing) in its various forms by making more things illegal, it doesn't work that way.

True.........

Poverty is the primary factor relating to crime I believe.........

Desperation = desperate people more willing to do whatever it takes to get by.

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True.........

Poverty is the primary factor relating to crime I believe.........

Yeah that and being a complete C***. I mean, what does rape have to do with poverty?

Plenty of people are in poverty but don't go around killing and mugging people..

In the UK the welfare system makes sure they don't starve- the people that do. commit crime usually want more...

Desperation = desperate people more willing to do whatever it takes to get by.

yep, the lack of protection offered by the authorities is forcing people to protect themselves, even it's against the law.

Especially if those laws are 'idealistic illogical weak laws.' ie ban all sharpened pieces of metals...

Edited by Billy of the Hill
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With Bush all we have gotten is a horrible mess in Iraq...................

NOLA isn't even back on it's feet yet. :hmm:

I would much rather get my taxes back in the form of Education and Social Programs that help Americans. Now that is Liberal.

Rather than see it wasted on Corporate welfare and immoral unnecessary Wars. Now that is Conservative.

See the difference?

You are going to get taxed either way..................

:tu:

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On the gun crime side comparative figures are hard to come by but I did find them a while ago for a similar discussion on another site.

IIRC: the US has roughly 80million firarms within its civilian population of 250mill.

The UK was harder to get hold of the best estimate being 2000 firearms out of 60million people, though I suspect the true number is a lot higher maybe 10k? Both those figures btw are the number of people with permits/lisences for firearms, and the actual number of guns both legal and illegal are probably higher.

Now I dont recall the actuall gun crime figures but for murders etc last year:

US; 10k-25k

UK; 52.

I dont think that rather huge difference though is all down to the gun control laws in the uk, its just harder to get hold of even illegal firearms here.

Hope this helps, but this is from my poor memory!:D

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Well, I've just read that more than 50 children have been arrested for serious gun crime in London this year.

That is unverified.. but I know I don't trust the official crime stats... at all.

You know they class some muggings (if violence wasn't used) the same as credit card fraud. Just so the figures don't look bad.

Yeah right..the victim was so full of fear they gave em their stuff. Instilling fear isn't a crime sir..

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Well, I've just read that more than 50 children have been arrested for serious gun crime in London this year.

That is unverified.. but I know I don't trust the official crime stats... at all.

You know they class some muggings (if violence wasn't used) the same as credit card fraud. Just so the figures don't look bad.

Yeah right..the victim was so full of fear they gave em their stuff. Instilling fear isn't a crime sir..

Dont recall and didnt have time to find al the gunrelated crime figs.

Does those 50 kids include children using toy guns that adults cant tell from the real thing?

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