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Neognosis

Jamie Lynn Speers

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ravergirl

Responsibility comes a long way before the moment where two people end up with a child and realise one of them can't handle it. Responsibility is also there at the point where you make the decision that ultimately leads to this moment, unwanted babies, no marriage but just a household family, the mental breakdown and repracautions of either parent etc...

Oh course it does. but life doesn't play by our rules. You can try and be this premium ultra responsible person but it isn't going to happen. Life happens and you have to either park your self on the side lines, check out early or hang on for the ride. Responsibility isn't avoiding life. it is accepting it as it comes.

In short Im just saying that if either individual understands responsibility and has a good mind set, then they would not be in this situation in the first place...

wrong!!!!!!!!

that is why this exists

Full Original Serenity Prayer

by Reinhold Niebuhr (1892-1971)

God, give us grace to accept with serenity

the things that cannot be changed,

Courage to change the things

which should be changed,

and the Wisdom to distinguish

the one from the other.

Living one day at a time,

Enjoying one moment at a time,

Accepting hardship as a pathway to peace,

Taking, as Jesus did,

This sinful world as it is,

Not as I would have it,

Trusting that You will make all things right,

If I surrender to Your will,

So that I may be reasonably happy in this life,

And supremely happy with You forever in the next.

Amen.

even if you don't believe in God the first part has validity. so go ahead and forget about the God parts if you need to and don't get focused on it...because it isn't the point.

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chaosdarksoulz
im calm. cool. collected. always am. cooler than the other side of the pillow.

This has nothing to do with man hate, I don't man bash. you can only be an irresponsible pregnant teenaged girl for so long. what about the men that abandon their children that they created with said females and vanished. a girl gets pregnant and she gets a 30 some odd page thread that has branched off so much it could be an old oak tree and i ask about irresponsible fathers and it is man hate. no baby i don't think so. abandoned children is a much larger, much more prevalent problem than teen pregnancy. see all these men and even truethat can talk all this blah blah blah about teen girls and forcing, pushing, pressure, sex, babies, abortion, adoption and on and on, but we can't talk about the other end....well it takes two to tango pal and i can guess who has more fun from that dance.

:huh::blink::wacko: I am so lost.... do you honestly believe that we are taking the p*** out of a 16yr old girl? And that we are posting here because we have an agenda against teenage preg girls??

No, we are not taking the p*** or bashing her... I for one, I cant speak for eqgumby or truethat, but I dont even like the thought of a 16yr old having sex in the first place let alone a 16 yr old girl getting pregnant. Please don't give me crap like they have sex we cant help it cuz Im just saying that I believe its morally degrading. NOTE:I said

I dont even like the thought of a 16yr old having sex.
not 16 yr old girls.

Im sure anyone whos posted here who was disturbed by this, was referring to both sex, male and female, as bieng immature and irresponsibile. Im sure most people are outraged at the fact so much young kids are having sex, not just young girls

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MissMelsWell

It should never be about man-hate. That's crap, I agree partially with eggumby on this one.

Currently, I have three male friends who have full custody of their children because mom decided not to step up to the plate. That door does swing both ways.

I was a teen parents more or less. When her bio-father said "don't want anything to do with this, give it up for adoption" I said great... "I'm keeping it but I'll do you a favor..." that favor was that I named no father for her. That did two things, it honored his wishes I believe men should have a say. It also prevented me from applying for social services.

However, had my family not been willing to help me out tremendously to avoid social services, I would have given her up in a flash, no questions. My parents instilled that value in me. Personal responsibility.

Yes, JLS can support a baby without social services or a father... the problem I see is that her parents likely won't provide the emotional support she will need and will likely struggle without it. Her parents seem to have made far too many poor choices in the past. One of two things will happen... 1. They'll finally get it and do the right thing by at least one of their daughters or 2. JLS will end up the train wreck her sister is. I doubt for that child there will be much in-between.

That's what's sad.

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capeo
It should never be about man-hate. That's crap, I agree partially with eggumby on this one.

Currently, I have three male friends who have full custody of their children because mom decided not to step up to the plate. That door does swing both ways.

I was a teen parents more or less. When her bio-father said "don't want anything to do with this, give it up for adoption" I said great... "I'm keeping it but I'll do you a favor..." that favor was that I named no father for her. That did two things, it honored his wishes I believe men should have a say. It also prevented me from applying for social services.

However, had my family not been willing to help me out tremendously to avoid social services, I would have given her up in a flash, no questions. My parents instilled that value in me. Personal responsibility.

Yes, JLS can support a baby without social services or a father... the problem I see is that her parents likely won't provide the emotional support she will need and will likely struggle without it. Her parents seem to have made far too many poor choices in the past. One of two things will happen... 1. They'll finally get it and do the right thing by at least one of their daughters or 2. JLS will end up the train wreck her sister is. I doubt for that child there will be much in-between.

That's what's sad.

Given the Spears family history I have the sinking feeling that a trainwreck is unavoidable.

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Stixxman

yeah it will be ironic tghat with a chance to finally choose the right way they'll take the 'moral' high road so they can look better in the press.

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ravergirl
:huh::blink::wacko: I am so lost.... do you honestly believe that we are taking the p*** out of a 16yr old girl? And that we are posting here because we have an agenda against teenage preg girls??

No, we are not taking the p*** or bashing her... I for one, I cant speak for eqgumby or truethat, but I dont even like the thought of a 16yr old having sex in the first place let alone a 16 yr old girl getting pregnant. Please don't give me crap like they have sex we cant help it cuz Im just saying that I believe its morally degrading. NOTE:I said not 16 yr old girls.

Im sure anyone whos posted here who was disturbed by this, was referring to both sex, male and female, as bieng immature and irresponsibile. Im sure most people are outraged at the fact so much young kids are having sex, not just young girls

and this is what happens when someone doesn't listen to what people say. did i say you have an agenda? no. I said what happened. Neo posted a question and the thread took a life of it's own. thats what happened. don't tell me not to give you crap. I said really really early on that having a conversation about the sexual activities of a minor is freaking sick and that I was disgusted. and the watched as all the othe effed up things were thrown in there. i can't leave this post alone either because to me if feels like with all these generalized statements about teenagers (CHILDREN) and sex (NOT A CHILD ACTIVITY) someone better be in here defending them to the max because it is the same as being in the room when.....you know. this thread is a cesspool of lies, assumptions and filth. all on one little girls honor, and who stands up for them after they have so dishonored themselves? WHo?

It should never be about man-hate. That's crap, I agree partially with eggumby on this one.

Yes, JLS can support a baby without social services or a father... the problem I see is that her parents likely won't provide the emotional support she will need and will likely struggle without it. Her parents seem to have made far too many poor choices in the past. One of two things will happen... 1. They'll finally get it and do the right thing by at least one of their daughters or 2. JLS will end up the train wreck her sister is. I doubt for that child there will be much in-between.

That's what's sad.

I have not hated on more than one man my whole life. bet that.

im sorry for your problems im glad you solved them.

It might possibly be that she will turn out like her sister but im not going to just giver her up for that right now, she can overcome this it isn't over or fair to put that on her. i mean please. for crying out loud i hope that my sister doesn't get judged because of the things I did.

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chaosdarksoulz
Oh course it does. but life doesn't play by our rules. You can try and be this premium ultra responsible person but it isn't going to happen. Life happens and you have to either park your self on the side lines, check out early or hang on for the ride. Responsibility isn't avoiding life. it is accepting it as it comes.

wrong!!!!!!!!

that is why this exists

even if you don't believe in God the first part has validity. so go ahead and forget about the God parts if you need to and don't get focused on it...because it isn't the point.

First you post a sonnet by shakespeare, now this? :huh:

What? Do you live your life by other peoples work or something?

And you know something, your whole attitude on life, as you have mentioned, just makes it clear to me why you had those problems you mentioned earlier. You are just those people who want to take life as it comes and the ups and downs too, but when you get stuck in rut, you expect everyone to agree with you and understand you.

Oh course it does. but life doesn't play by our rules. You can try and be this premium ultra responsible person but it isn't going to happen. Life happens and you have to either park your self on the side lines, check out early or hang on for the ride. Responsibility isn't avoiding life. it is accepting it as it comes.

If your gonna accept it as it comes and take no responsibility then cool, just know its you who gets screwed in the end, no one else... and dont get ticked off if others dont agree with you, Its you who made the choice in the first place, people will just say what they see.

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ravergirl
Given the Spears family history I have the sinking feeling that a trainwreck is unavoidable.

thats messed up. at least leave some hope for her.

yeah it will be ironic tghat with a chance to finally choose the right way they'll take the 'moral' high road so they can look better in the press.

maybe or maybe she really will try to not be her sister.

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capeo
First you post a sonnet by shakespeare, now this? :huh:

What? Do you live your life by other peoples work or something?

And you know something, your whole attitude on life, as you have mentioned, just makes it clear to me why you had those problems you mentioned earlier. You are just those people who want to take life as it comes and the ups and downs too, but when you get stuck in rut, you expect everyone to agree with you and understand you.

If your gonna accept it as it comes and take no responsibility then cool, just know its you who gets screwed in the end, no one else... and dont get ticked off if others dont agree with you, Its you who made the choice in the first place, people will just say what they see.

Wow, jaks, I guess you got it all figured out. I'm happy for you that you've never made a mistake in your life and you can stand on such a tall pedestal above us all and disseminate your obviously inummerable wisdom.

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chaosdarksoulz
and this is what happens when someone doesn't listen to what people say. did i say you have an agenda? Trust me, you dont have to say it. Just read the rest of your post. no. I said what happened. Neo posted a question and the thread took a life of it's own. thats what happened. don't tell me not to give you crap. I said really really early on that having a conversation about the sexual activities of a minor is freaking sick and that I was disgusted. I don't have a high IQ, but I can literally feel it dropping after conversing with you. and the watched as all the othe effed up things were thrown in there. i can't leave this post alone either because to me if feels like with all these generalized statements about teenagers (CHILDREN) and sex (NOT A CHILD ACTIVITY) someone better be in here defending them to the max because it is the same as being in the room when.....you know. :huh:What the, we were'nt looking at it in that manner...thats just sick to even think of! this thread is a cesspool of lies, assumptions maybe you should stop posting then... and filth. all on one little girls honor Awww, you make her sound so innocent, and who stands up for them after they have so dishonored themselves? no one here is claiming to be perfect. but ther is a difference between imperfection and stupidity WHo?

I have not hated on more than one man my whole life. bet that.

im sorry for your problems im glad you solved them.

It might possibly be that she will turn out like her sister but im not going to just giver her up for that right now, she can overcome this it isn't over or fair to put that on her. i mean please. for crying out loud i hope that my sister doesn't get judged because of the things I did.

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MissMelsWell
I have not hated on more than one man my whole life. bet that.

And my daughter doesn't hate her bio-father... she understands why the choices were made that were made and that was that. She was a bit miffed when he did eventually show up on our doorstep when she was 17 and he'd decided he wanted to know her. She approached that warily and wisely... in pretty short order she figured out why. He was now a single parent with 5 children under the age of 9. He didn't want another daughter, he wanted a babysitter. She was quite adept at figuring that out very quickly.

im sorry for your problems im glad you solved them.

I never considered it a problem per se. I just made wise decisions. And this might play into what Neo is talking about in a strange way. I wasn't ostrasized (I was told I stupid on a few occaisions, more than a few) but a few really special people chipped in to help me do the right things... it wasn't easy and it was an ego blow, a huge one to figure out that I couldn't do it without some very special support.

It might possibly be that she will turn out like her sister but im not going to just giver her up for that right now, she can overcome this it isn't over or fair to put that on her. i mean please. for crying out loud i hope that my sister doesn't get judged because of the things I did.

She can't overcome it alone. She's a child. Her sister is a trainwreck, her parents are a train wreck, she's involved in a media industry that's a trainwreck too. The Magic 8 Ball says "The Outlook is Doubtful"

Edited by MissMelsWell

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ravergirl
First you post a sonnet by shakespeare, now this? :huh:

What? Do you live your life by other peoples work or something?

And you know something, your whole attitude on life, as you have mentioned, just makes it clear to me why you had those problems you mentioned earlier. You are just those people who want to take life as it comes and the ups and downs too, but when you get stuck in rut, you expect everyone to agree with you and understand you.

Yeah thats it. i live my life by poetry. My attitude on life? What is my attitude on life?the truth? I don't float along some hippy breeze. don't get me messed up with some lost teenager. I graduated high school as planned and started a career as planned. I take care of myself as I have since 18 when my mom kicked me out for not wanting to obey her rules. since then I have learned that as much as you plan life happens. I have responsibilities. Don't mistake me for some lives in the basement at mommies house and plays on the computer all day. im just saying sometimes your plans don't work out. life happens. you cannot keep an iron grip control on life.

what rut. who said anything about a rut.

If your gonna accept it as it comes and take no responsibility then cool, just know its you who gets screwed in the end, no one else... and dont get ticked off if others dont agree with you, Its you who made the choice in the first place, people will just say what they see.

Again I take responsibility. For my actions, and my bills, and my choices and even the other crap that other people do TO me. I also took responsibility of 4 other adults for 5 months because I had to. and i still got what I needed done. If i can take care of 4 adults like they are children.....im 22 years old i don't have some cushy life, i said you have to take life as if comes at you...and not freak out when it doesn't go your way. next time you quote me you need to try and get my meaning and not what you think that i said.cool. and btw i haven't been ticked off until you just said i don't take responsibility, you don't know me to jusge me like that.

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ravergirl

look jaks. insult me all you want, tell your demon i said boo.

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chaosdarksoulz
Wow, jaks, I guess you got it all figured out. I'm happy for you that you've never made a mistake in your life and you can stand on such a tall pedestal above us all and disseminate your obviously inummerable wisdom.

:sleepy:erhh yeah, that was real poor sarcasm but whatever. Im sure a genius as yourself who seems to know everything would understand that...

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chaosdarksoulz
look jaks. insult me all you want, tell your demon i said boo.

I did, he said 'get a life'...

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Towknee

I really wish that this topic would be closed.. it sickens me how disgusting some of you are. She is a 16 year old girl, who made a mistake, it's none of your ****ing business, leave her alone. Get a life..

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ravergirl
And my daughter doesn't hate her bio-father... she understands why the choices were made that were made and that was that. She was a bit miffed when he did eventually show up on our doorstep when she was 17 and he'd decided he wanted to know her. She approached that warily and wisely... in pretty short order she figured out why. He was now a single parent with 5 children under the age of 9. He didn't want another daughter, he wanted a babysitter. She was quite adept at figuring that out very quickly.

I never considered it a problem per se. I just made wise decisions. And this might play into what Neo is talking about in a strange way. I wasn't ostrasized (I was told I stupid on a few occaisions, more than a few) but a few really special people chipped in to help me do the right things... it wasn't easy and it was an ego blow.

She can't overcome it alone. She's a child. Her sister is a trainwreck, her parents are a train wreck, she's involved in a media industry that's a trainwreck too. The Magic 8 Ball says "The Outlook is Doubtful"

you talk like a capricorn.

you were lucky. and around a lot of good people apparantly.

most people aren't. i know way more of the aren't than the are.

i know a lot of ladies that got married and had these great families looked up one day and were sitting around the table of a battered womans shelter. you never know what is in store for you really.

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MissMelsWell
you talk like a capricorn.

you were lucky. and around a lot of good people apparantly.

most people aren't. i know way more of the aren't than the are.

i know a lot of ladies that got married and had these great families looked up one day and were sitting around the table of a battered womans shelter. you never know what is in store for you really.

Luck? Naw, you make your own luck by making good decisions. The luck comes also when you make bad decisions and you take responsibility and don't lapse into a "victim" mentality.

When a person stops being a victim, and expending huge energy on that mentality, you tend to take action much quicker and with a whole lot more awareness. You make better decisons when you "own it 110%".

No, I was raised by a capricorn, I happen to be an Aries.

Edited by MissMelsWell

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Bill Hill

I really wish that this topic would be closed.. it sickens me how disgusting some of you are. She is a 16 year old girl, who made a mistake, it's none of your ****ing business, leave her alone. Get a life..

youtube beckons... looks like we've got a new Chris Crocker on our hands. :P

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chaosdarksoulz
youtube beckons... looks like we've got a new Chris Crocker on our hands. :P

^_^

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Shalott
I really wish that this topic would be closed..

I'm pretty sure the point of this thread wasn't primarily about JL Spears, but rather using her as an example of the apparent contradictory behaviour displayed by some people (that's what I understand from the original post - why people against abortion would react so harshly to the news when doing so could push a young girl (any girl) to have an abortion). Most talk has been about pregnant teens in general and just why people are reacting the way they are to the news. I don't see any reason to close the thread, there seems to be more focus on the bigger picture than there is on JL atm.

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truethat

Neo you can reword as much as you like but NO ONE's libido is beyond their common sense.

And this is what I am saying.

As for you and Capeo bringing up biology WHAT HAS IT TO DO WITH THIS? This is my point.

By suggesting that biology has some sort of bearing on whether or not a person has sex you are exempting them from real responsibility and basically making excuses.

And that's what is offensive. It is IRRELEVANT. I've said this numerous times. But of course you ignore it each time.

Now back to how it is relevant LOW TEEN PREGNANCY RATE in a country where the average age of first sexual encounter is 17.7 years old.

Suddenly the topic changes and its not important.

How is it pray tell in a country that's so open about sex that these children somehow mananged to stave off the sex impulse until nearly adulthood? Shocker.

BTW raver uh you can stop with the one man standing ovation for your life's accomplishments.

At 22 I was a mother and a wife paying for my own education and working part time and raising my child. Big whuppy do that you can pay your own bills. You're 22 years old honey, not SEVEN......

Edited by truethat

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Towknee
youtube beckons... looks like we've got a new Chris Crocker on our hands. :P

Whatever.. I guess some people are just meant to be bitter and mean towards everyone and everything.

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capeo

I honestly can't believe you're still on this. I figured my last post to on this would have ended your idiotic rant towards me. Are you just copy and pasting your previous posts now? Okay one last time, for real, because your last post was about all I could take of you accusing me of being a sex monster/pedophile/pro-rape whatever. The only person being offensive is you

Neo you can reword as much as you like but NO ONE's libido is beyond their common sense.

And this is what I am saying.

As for you and Capeo bringing up biology WHAT HAS IT TO DO WITH THIS? This is my point.

By suggesting that biology has some sort of bearing on whether or not a person has sex you are exempting them from real responsibility and basically making excuses.

And that's what is offensive. It is IRRELEVANT. I've said this numerous times. But of course you ignore it each time.

Biology is the only reason we have sex in the first place. To say it's irrelevant is the ultimate height of ignorance. More to the point, you insist on saying that I have said it's not within our control when even the slightest glance back at any of my posts will show that such and accusation to be utterly groundless.

Now back to how it is relevant LOW TEEN PREGNANCY RATE in a country where the average age of first sexual encounter is 17.7 years old.

Suddenly the topic changes and its not important.

How is it pray tell in a country that's so open about sex that these children somehow mananged to stave off the sex impulse until nearly adulthood? Shocker.

Hmmm. Oddly I'm the one who brought that up not you. SHOCKER. So how could I be changing the subject when I posted the subject? Here's my post:

I wouldn't even say it's that subtle. They market thongs and bikinis to toddlers. It's gross. Dolls aimed at very young girls have thongs painted on. The thing is though, people are buying them and that's the scary part. As a whole we control media and marketing by what we buy and watch and such. Products are becoming more sexualized because our society is not vice versa. But if Holland is taken as an example (it being arguably the most sexually open country on the planet) it's us as a society that's doing something wrong about it. I think it comes from our societies internal conservative/traditional vs liberated dichotomy. Because of it we almost have a taboo out in the open which makes little sense in the grand scheme of things and leaves a lot of teens marooned without the tools they need to make good decisions. Holland has the lowest teen pregnancy rate in Europe and is nine times lower than the US. Take from somebody whose been there a couple times: sex is everywhere. Porn and erotica are out in the open, nobody has any hang-ups, sex-ed is taught in all schools starting at 13 and is offered in most schools starting in their equivelant to first grade. I think removing the taboo about sex goes a long way in increasing a child's education about it. Here's a bit about how the dutch deal with it:

http://www.unesco.org/courier/2000_07/uk/apprend2.htm

So you're point is? You're arguing with me about something I already agree with? Is that whats going on cause I'm lost now?

BTW raver uh you can stop with the one man standing ovation for your life's accomplishments.

At 22 I was a mother and a wife paying for my own education and working part time and raising my child. Big whuppy do that you can pay your own bills. You're 22 years old honey, not SEVEN......

And now you're being venomous for what reason?

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truethat

Capeo its irrelevant. You want to make it relevant. WHY? Its like saying OXYGEN is necessary for sex and so that's why we have sex the way we do. Its so far removed from WHY people have sex that its not funny. The planet is over populated. We are not having sex to procreate. Its recreational and most people have children either by novelty or by accident. So just get over the whole ITS BIOLOGY crap.

Edited by SaRuMaN
Removed personal attack, flamebaiting

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