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Neognosis

Jamie Lynn Speers

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Neognosis
That's why "conservatives" get so bent out of shape. What message does that send to kids? Even liberals agree that kids learn behavior from adults. Society and the people in it determine what is seen as right and wrong, and establish morality. That's why liberals don't want their kids running around playing with toy guns. Right? Do they want their kids watching violent shoot-em-up movies, full of guns and death? Probably no more than they want their children thinking how cool or even just OK it would be to be 16 and pregnant.

I agree and I'm don't want to conflict with what you said.

I just want to point out that to cut down on abortion, you have to be compassionate to people who feel they don't have another choice. This is not JLS, clearly, as she is wealthy and famous. But if you want the next pregnant 16 year old (and there WILL be pregnant 16 year olds no matter how or what you teach them) to not have an abortion, you have to exhibit some compassion.

Can we agree on that?

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Purplos
I HIGHLY doubt that this is going to make any rational 16 year old girl want to get pregnant

Just an aside really, but they were talking about this on the news (shakes head) last night and interviewing people at a mall. They asked some girl, maybe 12-14 what she thought about JLS getting pregnant. The girl said, "I think its kinda cool actually. Like... sweet."

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eqgumby
But she IS pregnant, and there's nothing we can do about it.

What message is being sent to kids through this dumping on JLS?

Well, one forum member wouldn't let one babysit his kids.

How about the rest of you?

If a teenage girl in your neighborhood got pregnant, would you let them baby sit your kids? What would you tell your kids about them? Would you treat them with compassion or with condemnation?

I'm not looking to prove a point here, I'm genuinely trying to get a feel for what your attitudes are to normal, non-celebrity girls who end up in this situation.

The message being sent should be, getting pregnant at 16 is NOT what people should do. It is NOT OK to do this. Your Mom and Dad will NOT support you and say it's OK. The government is NOT going to raise your child. The father and mother will, and they will do it by GETTING A JOB and taking responsibility for THEIR child. The message should be, as a role model, you ARE held to a higher standard, and your reward is WEALTH, and you WILL be held to that higher standard! Instead, these role-models are held to NO standard and act as if they are ABOVE the laws us commoners have to obey.

Face it. The hardships Jamie faces and the hardships a 16 year old girl of a single Mother that makes 20K a year are WORLDS apart. No one tells that tale though. THAT is why "conservatives" care and get so p***ed.

You know, one of the most LIBERAL women I know, a Mom of a teen herself, damn near had a meltdown over this. She just can't imagine her own daughter NOT going to college because she became pregnant at 16.

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Neognosis
They asked some girl, maybe 12-14 what she thought about JLS getting pregnant. The girl said, "I think its kinda cool actually. Like... sweet."

Not a typical response. They probably had to go through 25 normal kids with parents who were involved in their lives before they got the one dumbass who's parent's don't know what she thinks or is doing.

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Neognosis
The government is NOT going to raise your child. The father and mother will, and they will do it by GETTING A JOB and taking responsibility for THEIR child.

I agree, I agree. But if you want to cut down on the number of abortions, you do have to allow pregnant teens some sort of support structure.

I don't necessarily agree that treating pregnant teens with compassion is the same as endorsing their behavior.

And let's face it, who here hasn't had sex before they could financially support and raise a child?

(although this is the UM forum. I might not be getting a response representative of the general population...)

I didn't lose my virginity until I was 18, but I was, even at 18, not ready to be a father. I was educated, I did use protection, but nothing is 100% and accidents happen.

Are all you folks saying you didn't have sex until you were out of college?

Edited by Neognosis

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eqgumby
I agree and I'm don't want to conflict with what you said.

I just want to point out that to cut down on abortion, you have to be compassionate to people who feel they don't have another choice. This is not JLS, clearly, as she is wealthy and famous. But if you want the next pregnant 16 year old (and there WILL be pregnant 16 year olds no matter how or what you teach them) to not have an abortion, you have to exhibit some compassion.

Can we agree on that?

Nope. I want to show such NON-compassion, that the average 16 year old girl will run screaming from a penis. How's that? Sorry, but it's true. I do not want 16 year olds having sex, and I wish it was SO publicly frowned on, that both boys and girls that did do it, were veritable pariahs. Then, I would feel bad that they were pariahs and show compassion.

QUOTE

The government is NOT going to raise your child. The father and mother will, and they will do it by GETTING A JOB and taking responsibility for THEIR child.

I agree, I agree.

And you can agree all you want, unfortunately it is NOT what happens in most cases. In most cases the father disappears, and the mother either lives off her parents or goes on some form of welfare. That's the REALITY. But you won't see Jamie living in the HUD trailer her dumb-ass belongs in. Hell no.

Edited by eqgumby

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MissMelsWell
And face it, Jamie has positioned herself as a role-model. Along with being a role-model and getting millions of dollars for it should come some responsibility. But no, you'll never see that side of it. Because she is rich, and it'll all be so fun and easy for her, and her family and friends will all put on a brave face and support her 100%.

Noo, Jamie didn't position herself as a role model... she really didn't. Disney did, her mother did, perhaps her sister even had a hand in it on a level. She's a little girl who was heaped with responsibility she didn't fully understand. I really believe this is her way of looking for a way out. Being a mom with all financial resources available to her seems infinitely easier than the life she's leading now. What she doesn't see at this point is that the side she's running from isn't going to go away, but I bet she thinks it is going to.

It's sad. And, it's not unlike what other 16yo pregnant teens do. They see it as a way out, a way to run their lives and be adults.

Sometimes pg 16yo's are simply accidents, but most of them have some kind of underlying issues that put them in the position they're in. THOSE are the problems that need to be addressed for everyone, and problems parents should be completely aware of. My parents failed me in a sense, and I fell vicitim to that thought process. Luckily, it didn't take long for them to come around and do the right things (better late than never!). There's a reason my sister and I have kids 16 years apart... they got it RIGHT with my sister. I love everything my folks did for me, but luckily we ALL understand where we ALL went wrong, and won't be repeating those mistakes. I hope. I hope. If I'm a grandma in the next two years... I'll feel like I failed (although my daughter is already 20).

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truethat
I would want to help her earn whatever money she could. Hopefully, she's got a support system at home that will pull together and help her out too.

Why don't you tell me what's messed up with treating a pregnant teen with compassion and support if you want to reduce the chance she'll have an abortion?

No, I'm not really a Reba type of guy, but that's good. Pregant teens should be, in my opinion, an opportunity to teach our kids what can happen if you have sex before you are ready, and also an opportunity to teach them compassion and humanity.

Are you at Jamie Lynn's house offering her a shoulder to cry on? No I doubt it. She doesn't NEED your compassion or support. She'd probably think you are some sort of NUT.

Let me put this in perspective for you

Ever wondered how much it costs to live like a famous pop starlet in the late stages of a public breakdown?

The answer, as revealed in court documents filed by Britney Spears yesterday, is $353,217 (£169,000) a month.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle2792281.ece

I know that's her sister but come on. The girl is coming from an extreme situation.

Egqgumby's post is spot on. You are ignoring it.

Maybe you are confusing Jamie Lynn with the girl she plays on TV.

The girl is loaded. Did you know she SOLD the story of her pregnancy to OK magazine.

http://www.usmagazine.com/dad_devastated_b...pears_pregnancy

I'm guessing you don't have kids. Go re read egqgumby's post. He hit the nail on the head.

You are acting like this is some poor sheltered girl getting beat up.

ETA

MMW that's right. That's why I said her handlers are handling this wrong. There's a fine line between making the girl be ashamed and recognizing that as a role model she needs to say something that lets kids know she isn't normal.

Its hard position for her to be in.

But I guarantee you that they are so rich none of this is going to have the slightest blip of an impact on them. That's what's so infuriating to other poor parents that are gonna wind up in the situation Egqgumby stated.

Edited by truethat

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Neognosis
Nope. I want to show such NON-compassion, that the average 16 year old girl will run screaming from a penis. How's that?

Incredibly unrealistic. Even if you threaten kids with public flogging, some 16 year olds are still going to have sex. You can't fight a million years of evolutionary biology.

I think we have met our impass.

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Neognosis
Are you at Jamie Lynn's house offering her a shoulder to cry on? No I doubt it. She doesn't NEED your compassion or support.

(rolling eyes...) I don't want the next door neighbor's 16 year old kid who gets preganant by accident to feel like the whole world is going to ostracize her.

You are acting like this is some poor sheltered girl getting beat up.

You aren't understanding. I know JLS is not some poor sheltered girl getting beat up. But how we react to her will make a normal 16 year old girl scared crapless if she makes a mistake and will make it seem like abortion is the best alternative.

If you believe that, then fine.

But if you are an anti-abortion conservative, you should consider that your attitude might be making abortion look pretty damn good right about now, if you were a real, normal, 16 year old girl in trouble.

There's a fine line between making the girl be ashamed and recognizing that as a role model she needs to say something that lets kids know she isn't normal.

I can agree with that.

Edited by Neognosis

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truethat
Incredibly unrealistic. Even if you threaten kids with public flogging, some 16 year olds are still going to have sex. You can't fight a million years of evolutionary biology.

I think we have met our impass.

Right because you are talking about "realistic" in your desire to help poor Jamie Lynn deal with the backlash.

NORMAL GIRLS are NOT treated this way. If she's a sacrificial lamb of sorts then maybe she's done her job.

I'm sure the family will be touched by your concern Neo for about three seconds and then they'll go clubbing and shopping and forget all about you.

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truethat
(rolling eyes...) I don't want the next door neighbor's 16 year old kid who gets preganant by accident to feel like the whole world is going to ostracize her.

You aren't understanding. I know JLS is not some poor sheltered girl getting beat up. But how we react to her will make a normal 16 year old girl scared crapless if she makes a mistake and will make it seem like abortion is the best alternative.

OR

The backlashed aimed at Jamie Lynn will make the 16 year old girl think twice about having sex in the first place and make her see that it can happen to anyone.

And if a normal girl is going to let how Jamie Lynn is treated effect her decision then there's not much hope for her in the first place because she's a total idiot.

If you believe that, then fine.

But if you are an anti-abortion conservative, you should consider that your attitude might be making abortion look pretty damn good right about now, if you were a real, normal, 16 year old girl in trouble.

OR if you are an anti-abortion conservative you might consider that this back lash goes far in making other girls feel as though its ok to have sex in the first place because if you DO get pregnant your world is gonna come crashing down on you no matter who you are.

I think that's how they see it.

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Neognosis
Right because you are talking about "realistic" in your desire to help poor Jamie Lynn deal with the backlash.

Apparently, I'm not being clear. I don't want to help JLS deal with the backlash. I'm not concerned about her. I'm concerned how our condemnation and name calling is making a real, normal, 16 year old girl who is accidently pregnant feel. I think that 10 minutes of listening to a conservative lambast JLS and call her a disgracefull whore will send that real, scared, normal 16 year old girl right to the abortionist instead of to her parents.

Or worse.

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truethat
Not a typical response. They probably had to go through 25 normal kids with parents who were involved in their lives before they got the one dumbass who's parent's don't know what she thinks or is doing.

Sorry buddy but its REALLY obvious that you don't have kids. Do you?

Apparently, I'm not being clear. I don't want to help JLS deal with the backlash. I'm not concerned about her. I'm concerned how our condemnation and name calling is making a real, normal, 16 year old girl who is accidently pregnant feel. I think that 10 minutes of listening to a conservative lambast JLS and call her a disgracefull whore will send that real, scared, normal 16 year old girl right to the abortionist instead of to her parents.

Or worse.

Sorry but for the number of pregnant 16 year olds that are gonna have an abortion versus the number of girls that are probably going to think its cool to have a baby at 16........I think its completely polarizing.

She is doing way more damage over all than the back lash is doing damage to the pregnant teen.

Edited by truethat

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Neognosis
The backlashed aimed at Jamie Lynn will make the 16 year old girl think twice about having sex in the first place and make her see that it can happen to anyone.

Then she'll probably do it anyway. But she won't have any condoms, because only a whore would need them. But she's not thinking clearly at this moment....

Why carry condoms or be on the pill when everyone knows that the only ones having sex are irresponsible whores like Jamie Lynn Spears?

The backlashed aimed at Jamie Lynn will make the 16 year old girl think twice about having sex in the first place and make her see that it can happen to anyone.

you just contradicted yourself and you didn't even notice.

The backlashed aimed at Jamie Lynn will make the 16 year old girl think twice about having sex

BUT

if a normal girl is going to let how Jamie Lynn is treated effect her decision then there's not much hope for her in the first place because she's a total idiot.

Which is it? Are 16 year old girls influenced by what happens around them or not?

I submit that they are, but they are going to have sex anyway, but the nastiness in the media will make it likely that abortion will be the most attractive option, rather than suffer the mud slung at JLS. If you want people to have fewer abortions, you have to be carefully about shaming someone into one. That's the only point I"m trying to make.

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eqgumby
Noo, Jamie didn't position herself as a role model... she really didn't. Disney did, her mother did, perhaps her sister even had a hand in it on a level. She's a little girl who was heaped with responsibility she didn't fully understand. I really believe this is her way of looking for a way out. Being a mom with all financial resources available to her seems infinitely easier than the life she's leading now. What she doesn't see at this point is that the side she's running from isn't going to go away, but I bet she thinks it is going to.

It's sad. And, it's not unlike what other 16yo pregnant teens do. They see it as a way out, a way to run their lives and be adults.

Sometimes pg 16yo's are simply accidents, but most of them have some kind of underlying issues that put them in the position they're in. THOSE are the problems that need to be addressed for everyone, and problems parents should be completely aware of. My parents failed me in a sense, and I fell vicitim to that thought process. Luckily, it didn't take long for them to come around and do the right things (better late than never!). There's a reason my sister and I have kids 16 years apart... they got it RIGHT with my sister. I love everything my folks did for me, but luckily we ALL understand where we ALL went wrong, and won't be repeating those mistakes. I hope. I hope. If I'm a grandma in the next two years... I'll feel like I failed (although my daughter is already 20).

I see your point. Feel free to blame the parents then. They should be hung for creating this monster. Apparently Jamie's grasp on reality is about as firm as Michael Jacksons. They just don't have a clue how the real world works, because they are sheltered from it at all costs by adults getting rich off of them. It makes me want to puke. Not just because it is wrong to them, but because how it contaminates the minds of millions of young people.

I took my child to visit his Aunt once at her "home", because he said she was so much cooler than his own mother, and he wished he lived with his aunt and his cousins. He left her house crying. The reality of multiple pregnancies before the age of 18 and common sense sunk in when he saw how they lived. Little things, like not having clean clothes, NEVER having new clothes, NEVER having a home-cooked meal that wasn't from a box, NEVER eating steak, NEVER waiting for Daddy to come home from work to play because you NEVER see your Daddy unless it's in court, having to change you baby brothers diapers because Mom tells you too even though that's not an 8 year olds job, NOT having cable TV, NOT having toys unless they came from the Salvation Army store, having head lice...AGAIN, NOT having your own bed (let alone your own room). Yeah, teens need compassion when they get pregnant...along with a slap upside the head for ruining their own children's lives.

Can you tell I am opinionated, and base it on PERSONAL experience? On my own families inability to give their own children a safe, clean, healthy, loving environment?

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ravergirl

My personal opinion is that she should take some personal time off. jump out of the lime light for the duration of her pregnancy to avoid influencing other children from becoming pregnant before they are ready, and it should be her choice and WE should mind our own business.

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m. Moe
Just an aside really, but they were talking about this on the news (shakes head) last night and interviewing people at a mall. They asked some girl, maybe 12-14 what she thought about JLS getting pregnant. The girl said, "I think its kinda cool actually. Like... sweet."

If they are dumb enough to throw away their education to be like Jamie Lynn Spears then they probably don't deserve a diploma.

I don't think this is going to cause a trend. Unless they see how Spears pampers the baby and how all the other Hollywood celebrities adore it. Then there might be a slight increase. But what many don't realise is how easy Spears has it. Do you know how many pregnant teens I know (or knew, I suppose), who had to drop out of high school to take care of the baby? Who's parents kicked them out? Who's boyfriend left them a couple weeks later?

I actually stopped caring about what happens to her. I stopped caring what concerned parents say. Why? Because any other pregnant teen probably has it 100% worse.

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Neognosis
Not a typical response. They probably had to go through 25 normal kids with parents who were involved in their lives before they got the one dumbass who's parent's don't know what she thinks or is doing.

Sorry buddy but its REALLY obvious that you don't have kids. Do you?

I have one on the way, but what I DO have is 5 years experience shooting and writing television news. TRUST me, they fished for that girl and messed their pants in joy when they finally got her.

Sorry but for the number of pregnant 16 year olds that are gonna have an abortion versus the number of girls that are probably going to think its cool to have a baby at 16

I really don't think that many middle class, 16 year old american girls reactions to finding out that they are pregnant is going to be "yay! Just like Jamie Lynn! This is going to be great!" no matter how we treat her. Do you really think that a failure to condemn and ostracize JLS is going to make normal, 16 year old girls excited to be pregnant at 16?

She is doing way more damage over all than the back lash is doing damage to the pregnant teen.

I don't think so.

what a character does on tv

would not be such a problem

if you raised your own kids more

and left them alone with the tv less

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Neognosis
My personal opinion is that she should take some personal time off. jump out of the lime light for the duration of her pregnancy to avoid influencing other children from becoming pregnant before they are ready, and it should be her choice and WE should mind our own business.

I'm down with that.

I dont' think she should be making light of it or making it seem like a great experience.

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eqgumby
Incredibly unrealistic. Even if you threaten kids with public flogging, some 16 year olds are still going to have sex. You can't fight a million years of evolutionary biology.

I think we have met our impass.

I'm throwing up the BS flag. If you don't see the lack of morals infecting the world as a problem, then you ARE the problem. It has to do with SOCIAL, not biological evolution, and taking personal responsibility. Hell, if every 16 year old took responsibility for their actions and had real responsibilities, they could all get knocked up for all I care. But that's not REALITY. Because 16 year olds that get pregnant DON'T take care of their kids and raise nice productive families that add anything to society and go to college and get married and take care of their parents when they get old and infirm.

If we can't fight a million years of evolution, I suggest we start killing old people, the r******ed, cripples, etc. Because THAT is evolution. Hell, every day you wake up and go to school or work and shower and wear clothes and eat with a friggin fork, your fighting evolution. Get real.

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truethat
Then she'll probably do it anyway. But she won't have any condoms, because only a whore would need them. But she's not thinking clearly at this moment....

Why carry condoms or be on the pill when everyone knows that the only ones having sex are irresponsible whores like Jamie Lynn Spears?

you just contradicted yourself and you didn't even notice.

No I didn't. You just don't understand that the backlash is aimed at the SEX and not the pregnancy. Please go find me one Conservative who is ranting that JL is NOT having an abortion.

Its not about the teen pregnancy its about the sex.

Bottom line, you don't have kids and are only looking at this from a single adult point of view.

First of all the term WHORE is not used nowadays. You are way out of the loop.

BUT

Which is it? Are 16 year old girls influenced by what happens around them or not?

I submit that they are, but they are going to have sex anyway, but the nastiness in the media will make it likely that abortion will be the most attractive option, rather than suffer the mud slung at JLS. If you want people to have fewer abortions, you have to be carefully about shaming someone into one. That's the only point I"m trying to make.

Bullspit. This is the typical statement from liberals. The fact of the matter is when you make it OK for your kids to have sex then they go ahead and do it. You are the gate keeper.

If you have to fight against media that tells kids its OK to have sex as a teen and that getting pregnant is COOL then what?

This is why parents are mad. If a parent tells a kid not to have sex they might still have sex but in most cases if you tell them TO have sex but use protection its like playing with fire.

Bottom line its a FINE LINE and so whenever someone public blurs that line its p***es parents off.

Its hard enough without crap like this.

BTW you haven't answered if you have any kids? You don't right?

So why are you so concerned about how other people raise their kids. Wasn't your statement "raise your own Damn Children"

So what's it to you?

She won't be carrying condoms? Wow you are totally looking at this like she's a college co ed or something.

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truethat

Ok so you don't have kids and you don't have a teen.

Get back to me in a few years ok, and I have a funny feeling you won't be so blase about the whole mess of this.

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ASOP

10 points to truethat!!!!! :tu:

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