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IronGhost

Too Late: Global Warming Out of Control

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Raptor
i dont want my kids exposed to this crap

Says the one who just compared climatologists to pro-abortionists. Yes, I'm sure you have the right idea. :huh:

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RX-7

6 billion could very well be a likely outcome considering how badly overpopulated third world countries could be affected.

It's funny though how there are apparently so many experts on global warming here :whistle:

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evancj
global warming IS a religion

ppl are getting goofy now-a-days with scientology, extremist global-warming cults, ecoterrorists, gay fetishists, pro-baby-slaughterers..... ect

i dont want my kids exposed to this crap

All you have to do is keep them in your little MUD PIT and they will live happily ever after in your muddy little world. That is if it doesn’t dry up or get washed away.

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Moon Monkey
6 billion could very well be a likely outcome considering how badly overpopulated third world countries could be affected.

It's funny though how there are apparently so many experts on global warming here :whistle:

Its actually funny how many experts on global warming there are in the world and how much research is done on huge levels of funding but nobody is able to publish accurate results quantifying mans effects on the process.

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RX-7
Its actually funny how many experts on global warming there are in the world and how much research is done on huge levels of funding but nobody is able to publish accurate results quantifying mans effects on the process.

so why is it that a large number of developed countries are spending so much money on these issues, which in turn are generating negative effects on their economies. They must be really silly then

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IronGhost
Its actually funny how many experts on global warming there are in the world and how much research is done on huge levels of funding but nobody is able to publish accurate results quantifying mans effects on the process.

You haven't been looking very hard. There's mountains of such data. And it's accurate.

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Moon Monkey
so why is it that a large number of developed countries are spending so much money on these issues, which in turn are generating negative effects on their economies. They must be really silly then

Taxation ? Are you sure about the negative effects on many of their 'virtual' economies ?

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RX-7
Taxation ? Are you sure about the negative effects on many of their 'virtual' economies ?

hmm, I'm not quite sure on where you're going with this. All I know is that they are treating these issues very seriously. Now what does that say you might ask. Well it says that you are blatantly wrong and that somehow you seem to have difficulty bringing yourself to admit it :D

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Ghost Ship

Could global warming be caused by some unseen force? There is no way to say people are doing it or Earth and it's people for sure. Maybe we aren't looking in the right places to understand global warming. Maybe there is another reason for it besides it being bad for the environment and people. A regeneration of sorts maybe for a planet such as Earth. If its a degeneration then humans are in for trouble. I think that if all the info was takin into account and looked at as a whole then an answer would be there that hasn't been thought of before. How could Earth benefit from global warming.

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IronGhost
Could global warming be caused by some unseen force? There is no way to say people are doing it or Earth and it's people for sure.

Where did you get this idea? There is plenty of ways to show people are "doing it" and that they are "doing it for sure." Human beings contribute 26 billion tons of CO2 per year into the environment. They are also increasing the earth's albedo by deforestation. They are also relying on cattle and other animals as a primary food source, contributing methane. They're driving billions of automobiles -- etc.

We don't need to look for any "hidden" of global warming. It's a combination of known things, from the sun to our own contributions to the mix.

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Ghost Ship

I say that because it's not known for sure. Humans are causing the planet to warm up..ok. But..An actual gloabal warming prosess may not be taking place because of a natural course of Earths evolution. I think that people may not be looking at global warming as it actually is. It may be that humans are causing a temperature increase but scientists are putting this down as Earths process being accelerated by humans when it may be only 1 of the two.

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Ghost Ship

If it's humans only then the warming can be slowed down before catastrophies occur. If it's Earth and only a small part played by humans then the warming is innevitable. If it's both....then were doomed for sure.

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IronGhost
I say that because it's not known for sure. Humans are causing the planet to warm up..ok. But..An actual gloabal warming prosess may not be taking place because of a natural course of Earths evolution. I think that people may not be looking at global warming as it actually is. It may be that humans are causing a temperature increase but scientists are putting this down as Earths process being accelerated by humans when it may be only 1 of the two.

Well, the scientists of the IPCC are claiming "90% certainty" that global warming is being driven by human activity.

Here is a statement by Peter Barrett FRSNZ, Director of the Antarctic Centre, Victoria University of Wellington:

The IPCC concluded in 1995 that "The balance of evidence suggests a discernible human influence on global climate", and then in 2000 with "There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed in the last 50 years is attributable to human activities". But they also provide figures and graphs so that we can see for ourselves. The upper graph (below) shows that average temperature has been steady for most of the last millenium, but has risen dramatically in the last few decades. And why? The lower graph shows an equally dramatic rise in CO2.

(I omitted the graphs -- go to the link below to see them)

A few people are saying that the recent warming could be part of a natural cycle. But a further fact from IPCC. "The present CO2 concentration has not been exceeded in the last 420,000 years." This is based on CO2 concentrations measured directly from Antarctic ice cores, which also record 4 glacial-interglacial cycles over this time period. In fact, IPCC think that there is more CO2 in the air we are breathing now than at any time in the last 20 million years. This is long before our ancestors first stood upright (about 5 million years ago) and shows what a significant global climate event is taking place. In the face of these observations, and the well-established effects of increasing greenhouse gases (GHGs), it is hard to escape the conclusion that if we do nothing we face a continuing rise in global temperature that will lead to global ecological disaster by the end of this century.

http://www.gsnz.org.nz/gs_archive/gsprpb.htm

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Phobes

There is no proof that humans are contributing to global warming!! In the 70s, everyone was talking about the climate getting COOLER. Think about this issue logically...The mercury thermometer was invented in 1714 - let's just say 300 years ago to keep the numbers even. This thermometer was not as accurate as they are today, and global tempuratures were not measured and recorded very accurately until the 1900s. So at the most, we have 300 years of data compared to the 4.6 BILLION year history of the planet. Here are a few of the holes in the theory:

First problem with the man made global warming theory: Sample of data is way to small.

Second problem: The global climate has and always will change.

Third problem: The computer models that are being used to predict this 'man made phenomenon' are flawed. Recently, these models were used to predict the global climate for the last few decades using historical data. The results did not reflect the actual climate conditions in any of the simulations.

Fourth problem: There is proof that the climate has warmed and cooled naturally. Where did the glaciers go that covered North America?? How did the Vikings farm in Greenland??

In the last 2 weeks, a report has come out where 400 climatologists state that man made global warming is a hoax. As time goes on, there will be more. Little is heard about those who disagree with the rest of the sheep that take Al Gore's word as gospel.

The head of the Weather Channel has said that any meteorologist that disagrees with the man made global warming theory should have their license revoked. Sounds like the 1400s when everyone KNEW that the Earth was flat - no one dared say otherwise. Same thing in the 1600s when Galileo suggested that the earth moved around the sun.

Man made global wariming is a political issue - not an environmental issue. You have people running around making ridiculous claims that the sky is falling - remember the 80s when acid rain was going to kill us all?? How about Al Gore predicting that after hurricane Katrina, there were going to be more and more hurricanes every year. Turns out it's wasn't as bad as they thought.

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Ghost Ship

From the above article iv'e concluded that Global warming is indeed occuring naturally and would eventually pose a serious threat to humans but not for hundreds or maybe thousands of years if left to it's own devices. But humans are pushing it along nicely. Still though i wonder if the two processes may still be seperate despite them both causing the same effects. The Earths warming up on its own while the humans are causing the Earth to warm up because of thier own seperate global warming that's not associated with Earths. Maybe there's two global warmings occuring simultaniously.

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Ghost Ship

I meant the post above the one posted above

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IronGhost
There is no proof that humans are contributing to global warming!! In the 70s, everyone was talking about the climate getting COOLER. Think about this issue logically...The mercury thermometer was invented in 1714 - let's just say 300 years ago to keep the numbers even. This thermometer was not as accurate as they are today, and global tempuratures were not measured and recorded very accurately until the 1900s. So at the most, we have 300 years of data compared to the 4.6 BILLION year history of the planet. Here are a few of the holes in the theory:

First problem with the man made global warming theory: Sample of data is way to small.

Second problem: The global climate has and always will change.

Third problem: The computer models that are being used to predict this 'man made phenomenon' are flawed. Recently, these models were used to predict the global climate for the last few decades using historical data. The results did not reflect the actual climate conditions in any of the simulations.

Fourth problem: There is proof that the climate has warmed and cooled naturally. Where did the glaciers go that covered North America?? How did the Vikings farm in Greenland??

In the last 2 weeks, a report has come out where 400 climatologists state that man made global warming is a hoax. As time goes on, there will be more. Little is heard about those who disagree with the rest of the sheep that take Al Gore's word as gospel.

The head of the Weather Channel has said that any meteorologist that disagrees with the man made global warming theory should have their license revoked. Sounds like the 1400s when everyone KNEW that the Earth was flat - no one dared say otherwise. Same thing in the 1600s when Galileo suggested that the earth moved around the sun.

Man made global wariming is a political issue - not an environmental issue. You have people running around making ridiculous claims that the sky is falling - remember the 80s when acid rain was going to kill us all?? How about Al Gore predicting that after hurricane Katrina, there were going to be more and more hurricanes every year. Turns out it's wasn't as bad as they thought.

There is vast amounts of proof that global warming is man made, and 90% of the world's best climate scientists say so. How did they all get fooled?

You point about mercury thermometers is moot. GW models don't rely exclusively on historical records of made by humans using thermometers. They rely on a variety of cross-referenced data, from borings measuring CO2 in glaciers, to meaurements of the thermal layers of the ocean, to space-based imaging of the earth's surface and atmosphere, and many others.

First problem: The global earming "sample" you speak of that is too small -- what "sample" are you talking about? You probably don't know, and I don't see how you could, because there is no one "sample." The fact is, there is no "small sample." GW is determiend by a hugely gigantanormus amount of data from millions of observations being made every day, and for the past 50 years, and which are ongoing.

Second problem: Nobody is denying that climate always change -- it's a totally moot point. The point is the rapid rise in heat in the last 50 years, which is demonstrable.

Third problem: Just how are the computer models flawed? I'd like to know. But, anyway, even if they are "flawed" no one is relying on "computer models" alone. GW data is a massive database of cross-referenced data -- the computer models are simply one tool adding to the overall picture.

Fourth problem: There is abundant proof that the earth is now warming artificically, caused by man. anyone can google the data, or go to the NASA web site for an explanation.

Oh, and about those so-called 400 scientists -- we were discussing that just a couple of days ago here -- some of us looked up a bunch of names on that 400 list, and just about all of them turned out to be paid lacky's or connected to ExxonMobile, or some other huge oil interest. Others were just plain nutty, such as the guy who wrote a book claiming Jesus walked on ice, not water.

A political issue -- then why do the top Republican candidates -- McCain, Romney, Guiliani and even Huckabee -- admit that GW is, or probably is caused by humans.? They're Republicans, aren't they? John McCain said he agrees with Al Gore, and that he liked his movie.

Edited by IronGhost

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el midgetron

Man made global warming, I still think its a total crock. I think there is to much discussion on the symptoms and evidence, and to little on the proposed solutions. If its real, it seems logical that real solution would be put forth as a solution. Can anyone explain how a carbon tax and cap and trade will stop global warming?

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IronGhost
Man made global warming, I still think its a total crock. I think there is to much discussion on the symptoms and evidence, and to little on the proposed solutions. If its real, it seems logical that real solution would be put forth as a solution. Can anyone explain how a carbon tax and cap and trade will stop global warming?

It's not a crock, it's fact, or so say 29,000 climate scientists around the world. How could they be so wrong -- and they have mountains of data to explain their positions. they're not trying ot hide anything.

How did NASA get duped by a global warming "myth"? What's wrong with our top rocket and planetary scientists?

I don't think a carbon tax can stop global warming at all -- it's a much bigger problem than that. How do we stop the denuding of rain forests in other countries? How do we stop a food supply industry that is centered around cattle and other animals, growing corn, and now hell-bent on making ethanol .... how do we stop billions of people from driving automobiles, in a world economy based on the automobile? ... how do we get the Chinese to stop turning their country into a pollution cesspool as they worship the god of Hyper-Capitalism? How do we stop exploding populations in underdeveloped countries?

That's why I think the scientist in the OP has some credibility -- he says it's too late, and that we're in for a rough century. Sure, we can adapt, but that adaptation process is gong to be extremely painful, and frightful.

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el midgetron
It's not a crock, it's fact, or so say 29,000 climate scientists around the world. How could they be so wrong -- and they have mountains of data to explain their positions. they're not trying ot hide anything.

How did NASA get duped by a global warming "myth"? What's wrong with our top rocket and planetary scientists?

I don't think a carbon tax can stop global warming at all -- it's a much bigger problem than that. How do we stop the denuding of rain forests in other countries? How do we stop a food supply industry that is centered around cattle and other animals, growing corn, and now hell-bent on making ethanol .... how do we stop billions of people from driving automobiles, in a world economy based on the automobile? ... how do we get the Chinese to stop turning their country into a pollution cesspool as they worship the god of Hyper-Capitalism? How do we stop exploding populations in underdeveloped countries?

That's why I think the scientist in the OP has some credibility -- he says it's too late, and that we're in for a rough century. Sure, we can adapt, but that adaptation process is gong to be extremely painful, and frightful.

You don't think a carbon tax is a real solution? Then don't you question the response of the people pushing the man made global warming theory?

I think you raise alot of good issues. However, in relation to global warming, if the solution doesn't fit the problem, whats the point? If we are all doomed at this point, why impose a tax that "wont stop the problem at all"?

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explorer

Perhaps because big business needs to hear it in terms that they understand and equate with in order to bring them to the party.

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el midgetron
Perhaps because big business needs to hear it in terms that they understand and equate with in order to bring them to the party.

The cabon tax is for you and I. Big buisness gets the "cap and trade" system. I can't help but feel that "cap and trade" is anything more than monopoly bargaining chips, just another way to squeeze out smaller buisness.

I think the implementation and enforcement of both the carbon tax and cap and trade will be very telling.

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Cradle of Fish
Man made global warming, I still think its a total crock. I think there is to much discussion on the symptoms and evidence, and to little on the proposed solutions. If its real, it seems logical that real solution would be put forth as a solution. Can anyone explain how a carbon tax and cap and trade will stop global warming?

It's a cover up I say, the Reptilian Illuminati are warming up the planet so it is more suitable for them!

Does that fit your reasoning better?

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Moon Monkey
hmm, I'm not quite sure on where you're going with this. All I know is that they are treating these issues very seriously. Now what does that say you might ask. Well it says that you are blatantly wrong and that somehow you seem to have difficulty bringing yourself to admit it :D

If you don't consider the possibility that governments would bias research to highlight and enhance mans part in the warming of the planet for taxation purposes then you are very gullible.

Ironghost........As for these "29,000 scientists who say global warming is man-made"...are you sure , what 100% ? :o and if not what is the percentage and what are the accuarcy bounds on the crappy models used on the IPCC report ? I wish those 29,000 climatologists could give me an accurate 5 day weather report.

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explorer
The cabon tax is for you and I. Big buisness gets the "cap and trade" system. I can't help but feel that "cap and trade" is anything more than monopoly bargaining chips, just another way to squeeze out smaller buisness.

I think the implementation and enforcement of both the carbon tax and cap and trade will be very telling.

Neither is the ultimate solution, but fortunately they're not the only responses. There's a lot that Joe and Jane Blow on the street can do and save money at the same time.

If you don't consider the possibility that governments would bias research to highlight and enhance mans part in the warming of the planet for taxation purposes then you are very gullible.

As if governments need that to increase taxation.

Ironghost........As for these "29,000 scientists who say global warming is man-made"...are you sure , what 100% ? :o and if not what is the percentage and what are the accuarcy bounds on the crappy models used on the IPCC report ? I wish those 29,000 climatologists could give me an accurate 5 day weather report.

Those week ahead weather reports are getting more and more accurate.

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