YOUR voice of reason.

[sede-x-teh-bomb]

This would be a question for any non-believer/naturalist/atheist/agnostic/non-theist/earthling.

Unfortunately we live in a society which encourages adopting an extremely un-naturalistic, supernatural, idealistic state of mind when confronting what seems to me some of the more important issues in life such as our origin, moral benchmarks and what our place in the known universe is.

I am very happy where i am at now, i think i harbour a good balance of rationality, skepticism and what i consider as spiritual fulfillment from the activities i engage in. I feel the the state of mind this offers is a huge advantage with every circumstance i come across in life, compared to a time in my life when i was perhaps a little too open minded to religion or anything supernatural for that matter. Everything now just seems so much more clearer, makes more sense, ive never before held such a great appreciation for life, the planet we live on and the relationships i nurture.

now without turning this into a 20 page essay to why i think my life is so ******* great i am just going to assume other people with a similar background to mine knows exactly what im talking about.

The question is, What was your voice of reason? what planted your seed of skepticism? what was it that tore off the vail of non-sense myths, and mind clouding ideals which are forced down your throat as a child from all directions, being television, parents, friends, stories, over active imaginations.. ANYTHING.

For me it was years ago when i first came across the carl sagan television series now available on dvd, i loved the way he eloquently uses words like poetry to describe the universe we live in, and how mind blowing it was for me to realise how insignificant our planet is in the grand scheme of things.. really opened my mind, to put it very simplisticly of course. Its been a long journey since then.

interested in your stories.

Edited January 4, 2008 by sede-x-teh-bomb

[Cadetak]

When I was little I had too many questions with no real answers.

I guess it all started with a simple question...asking "Why?"

Why should I believe? For what reason? Why assume?

Edited January 4, 2008 by Cadetak

[Wickian]

Everyone on my mom's side of the family is hardcore Christian, most of my dad's side don't practice any religion. I was raised to think for myself. I believe any religion that demands you live your life a specific way and promotes getting others to do the same is morally wrong.

Is there a God? I don't know and don't care since my life and soul are mine before and after death(assuming souls exist which I don't know either).

[Belle.]

Took a university subject "Superstition, Science and Scepticism" and praise be (I just like the phrase) I was cured!

Always had a leaning towards reality in the first place though.

[sede-x-teh-bomb]

When I was little I had too many questions with no real answers.

I guess it all started with a simple question...asking "Why?"

Why should I believe? For what reason? Why assume?

yeah the problem with that i found (being surrounded by christians) is that they always have an answer for something, as illogical and non-sensicle as it was (at that age i was more than willing to accept that), i am jus thankful i have that questioning mind, not one that will sit very long being content with something which makes no sense at all to my voice of reason.

[Cradle of Fish]

I came to realize that the world is far more beautiful if you discard all the superstition.

I guess that was the beginning for me.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Cradle of Fish

[sede-x-teh-bomb]

I came to realize that the world is far more beautiful if you discard all the superstition.

I guess that was the beginning for me.

hahah easy said, but it took me way too long to come to that extremely simple conclusion.

[AllP0werToSlaves]

I came to realization after having gone through years of private schooling and having religion shoved down my throat. Does that count?

[__Kratos__]

First seed of doubt was finding out about Wicca... I didn't know there were other religions... I had only previously knew about christianity... I knew then that they all couldn't be right.

Sad that the mind of a child (me! ) can see that but others cannot. Learning more about different faiths over the years I find it mind boggling that others can't be smacked upside the head with some rational thinking. Suppose some people find it easier to be a drone then to use their brains.

[Papaver]

I became more skeptical as I grew older and realised evidence of any decent standard did not exist for the paranormal.

I also have never been spritual or believe in the soul. I've always felt like a flesh and bone animal and nothing more or less.

[momentarylapseofreason]

We all have an immune system against physical attacks such as bacteria, illness etc. but that wasn't enough..........

after a certain age, a BDRS (bullsh*t detecting response system) was installed. I never leave home without it.

I hope it functions properly for a long time.

It's not 100% failproof but it works pretty good.

Edited January 4, 2008 by momentarylapseofreason

[Lilly]

Education did it for me, that, and life experience (nothing like half a century to give one a clear perspective).

[theSOURCE]

All of the above.

Well... Except for the uni class in superstition.

[Orcseeker]

I came to realize that the world is far more beautiful if you discard all the superstition.

I guess that was the beginning for me.

remove that and it becomes less interesting

[evancj]

For all of the reasons above. Also I always thought that the christian religion cheapened life and the natural world. Like others have expressed once rid of my religious blinders things became clear and this world became a wondrous and beautiful place.

[+Sherapy]

This would be a question for any non-believer/naturalist/atheist/agnostic/non-theist/earthling.

Unfortunately we live in a society which encourages adopting an extremely un-naturalistic, supernatural, idealistic state of mind when confronting what seems to me some of the more important issues in life such as our origin, moral benchmarks and what our place in the known universe is.

I am very happy where i am at now, i think i harbour a good balance of rationality, skepticism and what i consider as spiritual fulfillment from the activities i engage in. I feel the the state of mind this offers is a huge advantage with every circumstance i come across in life, compared to a time in my life when i was perhaps a little too open minded to religion or anything supernatural for that matter. Everything now just seems so much more clearer, makes more sense, ive never before held such a great appreciation for life, the planet we live on and the relationships i nurture.

now without turning this into a 20 page essay to why i think my life is so ******* great i am just going to assume other people with a similar background to mine knows exactly what im talking about.

The question is, What was your voice of reason? what planted your seed of skepticism? what was it that tore off the vail of non-sense myths, and mind clouding ideals which are forced down your throat as a child from all directions, being television, parents, friends, stories, over active imaginations.. ANYTHING.

For me it was years ago when i first came across the carl sagan television series now available on dvd, i loved the way he eloquently uses words like poetry to describe the universe we live in, and how mind blowing it was for me to realise how insignificant our planet is in the grand scheme of things.. really opened my mind, to put it very simplisticly of course. Its been a long journey since then.

interested in your stories.

doubt/uncertainty is natural , it is an offshoot of curiousity which is also natural Sede.. many of our current systems thwart and deaden this part of being human.....ideas are tools when we begin to except them as truths/beleifs instead of a way to define the material which is ever changing evolving and growing we stop growing we stop thinking... , i came into this at 7 years old after going to live with my grandparents it was modeled to me taht doubt is natural and if you don't doubt you arent' growing... i had a very untraditonal upbringing.....

you sort of allude to evolution probably not, meaning to but i felt it was a good place to add this, not an attempt to derail ......... evolutionary thinking in biology spilled over into social thought, even before Darwin published his theory the idea of survival of the fittest plugged by Herbert Spencer influenced and drove social progress, some call it social darwinism ... theories about humans influence how people should live and behave this is still obvious today theology being just one example even a self help book could qualify..... ..so my point is many are conditoned out of curiousity and doubt which are really natural in favor of a rote lifestyle...IMO .... ...so many 'social crusades' lead us away from what is most innate in us saddly..

great thread and great question............ .

Edited January 4, 2008 by Supra Sheri

[diann]

to the world is the most beautiful place as long as all of the suspisions you

put behid you out of the way

[+Sherapy]

to the world is the most beautiful place as long as all of the suspisions you

put behid you out of the way

I so agree, just beleiving says don't think don't doubt( i am defining doubt as uncertainty and the wonder of life is the uncertaintys one should jump out of bed every day in anticipation of uncertainty ) suspiscion is paranoia lack of trust to truly live one is trust Wowsa Life using doubt: says play with ideas, try to find out on your own , be concerned with that don't be content that someone else already did find out for yourself .....don't follow and most definitley doubt/be uncertatin because uncertaintys lead you to a new truths, new visions....

Life is always fresh , it never repeats itself its always new ,always growing, always moving into new adventures, ready made answers pale the wonder of life, in fact ready made answers hinder progress because they do not allow you to see the situation except through the ready made answers....So you will have new situation but an old answer... the life expereince can always be more than one is here to live, come up with some of their own ideas do not to live vicariously through anothers.visions life your own....

Edited January 4, 2008 by Supra Sheri

[sede-x-teh-bomb]

you sort of allude to evolution probably not, meaning to but i felt it was a good place to add this, not an attempt to derail ......... evolutionary thinking in biology spilled over into social thought, even before Darwin published his theory the idea of survival of the fittest plugged by Herbert Spencer influenced and drove social progress, some call it social darwinism ... theories about humans influence how people should live and behave this is still obvious today theology being just one example even a self help book could qualify..... ..so my point is many are conditoned out of curiousity and doubt which are really natural in favor of a rote lifestyle...IMO .... ...so many 'social crusades' lead us away from what is most innate in us saddly..

great thread and great question............ .

no you are completely right and its a subject i find very enlightening, every emotion we feel is for a reason and it has served its purpose over time, it all comes back to survival, and i think once we realize why we feel the way we do about certain things we can then decide which one of these emotions are ones we should be paying attention to and which ones basically served as a primitive defense system, which wound no longer really apply or be required in todays society, or something which gave us an extremely higher percentage of survival in times when we were not at the top of the food chain.

All emotions serve a purpose but as intelligent beings we should really be looking to harness our emotions more efficiently.

Like i said earlier i think we are all predisposed to need to know our origin, thats all well and good but the facts are that todays science does not have a clear cut answer to that, so, humans will continue to speculate and guess to satisfy that lust for knowledge, that need to know, and unfortunately, crazy myths, stories and idealistic hypotheses have always been there until the point today where now they are accepted as events that quiet probably happened, and thats just sad.

[Wootloops]

The question is, What was your voice of reason? what planted your seed of skepticism? what was it that tore off the vail of non-sense myths, and mind clouding ideals which are forced down your throat as a child from all directions, being television, parents, friends, stories, over active imaginations.. ANYTHING.

I think I was about 6 or 7 years old, attending my older brother's Church Communion. While I sat there, listening to religious speeches, and skimming through a copy of the Bible I thought.... I could write a better story than this.

[sumthingnice60]

To tell you the truth, I lost my faith when I was old enough to learn about events of murder, genocide, and other crimes involving killing happening around the world. Every time I hear about genocides, problems in the Middle East, and the Holocaust and I ask where God was when those people were dying. If God is as good, caring, and powerful as everyone makes Him out to be, then why is He letting all of this happen? What makes God better than those committing the crimes if He is not there to prevent it? Isn't that one reason people pray to God, to have a sense of protection? What's the point then, if He is not there to protect you? It just leads me to believe that the individual holds more power and authority than God does if individuals are allowed to commit crimes on such a grand scale.

[tralalala]

I was in mass at school in grade 11, and they told us to sit, they told us to stand, they told us to sing, they told us to eat someones body, and I just realized "I'm listening to everything the man in the white robe is telling me... I've been doing that since I was a kid...I'm in a cult" and it just hit me all at once haha. I started asking questions, all of which I was told to pray on, and I realized no one really had an answer other than pray or read the bible. The few people that gave me answers, just recited bible verses. I was listening to people relying on nothing but a 2000 year old book to tell them how to live their lives, which to me made absolutely no sense.

[Wootloops]

"The gods can either take away evil from the world and will not, or, being willing to do so, cannot; or they neither can nor will, or lastly, they are both able and willing. If they have the will to remove evil and cannot, then they are not omnipotent. If they can, but will not, than they are not benevolent. If they are neither able nor willing, then they are neither omnipotent nor benevolent. Lastly, if they are both able and willing to annihilate evil, how does it exist?" -Epicures, 300 B.C.

Only excuses will come in response to that quote. "God gave us free will..." "God wants us to....this and that..". While such exuses may be viable in a way, they are only for the blind and in reality are nothing but just that; excuses. Excuses to justify something that is without logic nor reason. It is a fool's game and a game that I will not play. Perhaps there is some being or some creator. Perhaps our universe is but a cell within a being that to us, is infintely large but in his world, a midget of his kind. Perhaps we are a super computer's simulation. All are possibilitys, and perhaps one day in the far or near future we will know; but the god or gods in any organized religion of this world today are false gods. The ancient books and divine scripture of these religions are tales told by idiots. They were tools for control, answers to questions inconcievable at the time they were asked, and ways to uphold ethics and good behavior towards our fellow man (Lol crusades and human sacrifices?). We are above this nonsense now and I know that we will be rid of it soon. There is no future in religion for such developed, democratic, and highly civilized societys as our own.

Edited January 5, 2008 by Wootloops

[graylady2]

The question is, What was your voice of reason? what planted your seed of skepticism? what was it that tore off the vail of non-sense myths, and mind clouding ideals which are forced down your throat as a child from all directions, being television, parents, friends, stories, over active imaginations.. ANYTHING.

When I was told the pope was god's representative on earth. The arrogance of it filled me with disbelief.

[+Sherapy]

no you are completely right and its a subject i find very enlightening, every emotion we feel is for a reason and it has served its purpose over time, it all comes back to survival, and i think once we realize why we feel the way we do about certain things we can then decide which one of these emotions are ones we should be paying attention to and which ones basically served as a primitive defense system, which wound no longer really apply or be required in todays society, or something which gave us an extremely higher percentage of survival in times when we were not at the top of the food chain.

All emotions serve a purpose but as intelligent beings we should really be looking to harness our emotions more efficiently.

Like i said earlier i think we are all predisposed to need to know our origin, thats all well and good but the facts are that todays science does not have a clear cut answer to that, so, humans will continue to speculate and guess to satisfy that lust for knowledge, that need to know, and unfortunately, crazy myths, stories and idealistic hypotheses have always been there until the point today where now they are accepted as events that quiet probably happened, and thats just sad.

you rock, I have been intrigued with the whole advent of the idea to begin with, starting with George Cuvier in particular , long before Darwin...He laid the ground for evolution we know of today especially from the theological stance they came up with it that species morph into other species entirely well this is just outlandish (philsophical actually) and yet Culvier tried to make it work......this isn't a isolated e'tude ( evolution) its got to be looked at as a whole .. Culvier a theologist himself. It was the prevailing theme of the 1800's filtered his understandings of fossils through a biblical framework most notably Genesis.... it allowed for christian's in those days to reconcile this new idea called a universe without a creator....

I generally stay off of these threads as they are so limited in exploration.....again not to veer from the op but its worth mentioning how religion has influenced the ideas of evolution that many argue about.they in a sense came up with them.......... (18 century ideas.)..... little changes in theology as evolution of the 18 century shows......the last thing encouraged is doubt or trusting in the self as part of the discernment process...

very good post sede ...

Edited January 6, 2008 by Supra Sheri