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sede-x-teh-bomb

YOUR voice of reason.

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momentarylapseofreason
your examples actually show the perfection of nature ( its synergy and congruency to any moment)....

MLOR also your idea of chaotic, messy, unfair nature etc was a common view that took hold in in britian around the 18oo's it justified the the haves and the have nots holding this view by seeing nature in this way it was exceptable to have more while so many had less (nobles and commoners) but really this goes back to aristoltle .......... certain ones just got the raw end of the stick..its capitalistic in implementation it worked and still does is this day what you are seeing is a conditioning to justify a lifestyle........I'd say look again at nature with an openess for the first time it may look different to you. it may not .just a suggestion...

That's what I was saying at the bottom of my post.

Basically that on the surface nature appears to be impefect/ faulty at times but actually it is not. Because nature fixes itself.

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Sherapy
That's what I was saying at the bottom of my post.

Basically that on the surface nature appears to be impefect/ faulty at times but actually it is not. Because nature fixes itself.

you sure did didn't you...I was just sharing abit of data with ya, being friendly ... its a rather interesting subject wouldn't you agree???

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artymoon
That's what I was saying at the bottom of my post.

Basically that on the surface nature appears to be impefect/ faulty at times but actually it is not. Because nature fixes itself.

I'm lost now. Now your saying nature is perfect. If it is, then how could it produce something imperfect, such as us.. as you suggest.

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sede-x-teh-bomb

my opinion is that, psychologically we are only flawed because the emotions we have inherited dont really have a place in today's society(as much as they once did), i dont think we generally harbour the intelligence or a more enlightened state of mind to wield these powerful emotions efficiency, this i think is very obvious.

That being said tho all these emotions at one point or another served us extremely well and as i have said it all comes back to survival. Someone suggested earlier about compulsive lying being a flaw, where as i see betrayal in this case as an extremely useful trait even by todays standards, the only "flaw" comes about when it doesnt fit into another beings social agenda, for then its affecting his/her odds of survival, but you couldnt really call th at a flaw.

I do how ever think mankind collectively are flawed from a naturalistic sense, if mother-nature indeed was a being they would no doubt harbor regret from creating humans, we are the first beings to achieve the destruction of the earth, and mother nature will correct this mistake, obviously by creating an environment unsuitable for human existence, we can already see this happening (just because it happens on a grand time scale does not mean its not happening) and unfortunately every other species we share the planet with will have to suffer with us, because of us.

Edited by sede-x-teh-bomb

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BeckyS
This would be a question for any non-believer/naturalist/atheist/agnostic/non-theist/earthling.

Unfortunately we live in a society which encourages adopting an extremely un-naturalistic, supernatural, idealistic state of mind when confronting what seems to me some of the more important issues in life such as our origin, moral benchmarks and what our place in the known universe is.

I am very happy where i am at now, i think i harbour a good balance of rationality, skepticism and what i consider as spiritual fulfillment from the activities i engage in. I feel the the state of mind this offers is a huge advantage with every circumstance i come across in life, compared to a time in my life when i was perhaps a little too open minded to religion or anything supernatural for that matter. Everything now just seems so much more clearer, makes more sense, ive never before held such a great appreciation for life, the planet we live on and the relationships i nurture.

now without turning this into a 20 page essay to why i think my life is so ******* great i am just going to assume other people with a similar background to mine knows exactly what im talking about.

The question is, What was your voice of reason? what planted your seed of skepticism? what was it that tore off the vail of non-sense myths, and mind clouding ideals which are forced down your throat as a child from all directions, being television, parents, friends, stories, over active imaginations.. ANYTHING.

For me it was years ago when i first came across the carl sagan television series now available on dvd, i loved the way he eloquently uses words like poetry to describe the universe we live in, and how mind blowing it was for me to realise how insignificant our planet is in the grand scheme of things.. really opened my mind, to put it very simplisticly of course. Its been a long journey since then.

interested in your stories.

All religion is 'revealed' religion and it is all manmade. Has a Jehovah's Witness, Hare Krishna, Mormon or other member of a religion come to your door to try to convert you to their way of believing? Have you ever had a discussion with them and come to the conclusion that no matter what you said, no matter how good your reasoning and logic, that there was no way that you were ever going to have a meeting of the minds with this person. Why can’t they understand the religion you were born into is the correct one? Why don’t they understand your parents were right and would never teach you the wrong things? Why can’t they see that out of the thousands of religious doctrines of the world, yours is the one true religion and how lucky your were to be born into it? This is why, and it is so simple. They are wondering the very same things about you! Why can’t you understand the religion they were ‘born’ into is the correct one? Why can’t you understand their parents would never teach them the wrong things? All the world over and in every religious denomination, this is the way it is..period.

While each of us were still lying in the nursery in the hospitals where we were born, our religions were already laid out for us. Think about it for once! We had no knowledge of this world, our parents, god or even ourselves, but some things had already been decided on our behalf. Personally, I believe it should be against the law of the land everywhere to teach a child any religion! They should be given the opportunity to be a child until they reach an age where they can investigate all religions, and if they decide they need religion in their life, then that choice should be up to them. What choice do people have when they have been indoctrinated with the beliefs of family or culture and taught it is wrong to even question or investigate those beliefs often with the treat of damnation if they do? That is child abuse, plain and simple.

All religious systems enslave the mind. Certain things are demanded, certain things must be believed, certain things must be done and anyone who becomes the subject or servant of this superstition must give up all idea of individuality or hope of intellectual growth and progress. We must all become sheep in one flock. Do you understand sheep are the stupidest animals alive and will follow their leader to their own death?

I was raised as a southern fundamental christian and it has only been a couple of years since I left it all completely and for good. I have never felt more free or happy. I just wish I had done this much sooner in life.

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MissMelsWell
While each of us were still lying in the nursery in the hospitals where we were born, our religions were already laid out for us. Think about it for once! We had no knowledge of this world, our parents, god or even ourselves, but some things had already been decided on our behalf.

You make a lot of assumptions there.. in my case, all your assumptions are wrong.

I was born into a transendental meditation, yogaic, quasi hindu believing family.

Today, I am a Christian, I chose it for myself. Just as you apparently chose a non-belief for yourself.

I was raised as a southern fundamental christian and it has only been a couple of years since I left it all completely and for good. I have never felt more free or happy. I just wish I had done this much sooner in life.

This seems to be a common statement (particularly the southern fundemental christian part) from people who think that religion destroys lives and leaves no choices for the individual. I'm sorry that was your experience. It's not everyone's experience though.

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BeckyS
You make a lot of assumptions there.. in my case, all your assumptions are wrong.

I was born into a transendental meditation, yogaic, quasi hindu believing family.

Today, I am a Christian, I chose it for myself. Just as you apparently chose a non-belief for yourself.

This seems to be a common statement (particularly the southern fundemental christian part) from people who think that religion destroys lives and leaves no choices for the individual. I'm sorry that was your experience. It's not everyone's experience though.

I am not sorry for my experience and you need to back up and read what I really said instead of becoming such a drama queen. I was commenting on the majority and no, this is not ALL ABOUT YOU. I will try to be simple for you. India is known mostly as a hindu country. The middle east is known as a muslim or Islamic country. Italy/Spain are known as catholic countries. The USA is mostly known as a christian country. Utah is known as a mormon state. Southern states are known as fundamental christian states. I could go on but I think most people understand what I meant. duh....It has been proven that the majority of people grow up in the religion of their parents or region. There are always exceptions however minimal they may be. If you or I had been born in a muslim country we would most likely be muslims. Most religion is purely an accident of birth. Some of us learn to use our brain and the gift of reason. I am not a non-believer just because I do not choose your personal belief and how very arrogant of you to imply such a hateful thing. I believe in a universal creator who is not so petty he needs the worship of any man. People like you, judgemental and hypocritical, are one of the reasons I began to take a serious look at christianity. I think this quote from Thomas Jefferson sums up clearly what christianity really is: Get over yourself...

"The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."

Edited by BeckyS

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MissMelsWell

You're very new here... very new. i'm about the most innocuous person on this site as far as what it is to respect other people's beleifs. I actually believe they're all true in some fashion. Yes, including no belief at all.

I wasn't being dramatic in any way... I rarely am. I have opinions, but drama is typically not my style.

Your orignal post read with a lot of words like "abuse" statements like "it should be against the law to raise a child with religion" and words like "damnation", "enslaved mind", "sheep", "stupid". I assumed with some good evidence in your post that your southern fundemental upbringing was a less than pleasant experience. I know many other people who feel that way about their own southern fundemental upbrining. I'm sorry if I assumed incorrectly.

I was merely pointing out that there a lot of christians out there, more moderate to liberal ones that don't engage in the "fundy" christian belief system. I was also giving an example of someone (myself in this case) who was born into a family whose beliefs weren't Christian, but chose it anyway. Just like you chose your non-belief. There's nothing wrong with that. I, a Christian, didn't raise my own child with any specific belief, although I could have if I had chosen to and that would have been my right. But I didn't.

Take it down a notch, I wasn't casting asperations or judgements on you at all.

Edited by MissMelsWell

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Sherapy
my opinion is that, psychologically we are only flawed because the emotions we have inherited dont really have a place in today's society(as much as they once did), i dont think we generally harbour the intelligence or a more enlightened state of mind to wield these powerful emotions efficiency, this i think is very obvious.

That being said tho all these emotions at one point or another served us extremely well and as i have said it all comes back to survival. Someone suggested earlier about compulsive lying being a flaw, where as i see betrayal in this case as an extremely useful trait even by todays standards, the only "flaw" comes about when it doesnt fit into another beings social agenda, for then its affecting his/her odds of survival, but you couldnt really call th at a flaw.

I do how ever think mankind collectively are flawed from a naturalistic sense, if mother-nature indeed was a being they would no doubt harbor regret from creating humans, we are the first beings to achieve the destruction of the earth, and mother nature will correct this mistake, obviously by creating an environment unsuitable for human existence, we can already see this happening (just because it happens on a grand time scale does not mean its not happening) and unfortunately every other species we share the planet with will have to suffer with us, because of us.

you got a good mind kid... I love posts as this your own ideas on things your own conclusions.. best post on here Sede... your only fan...(((HUGS)))

Ps a little joke between me and sede....

Edited by Supra Sheri

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Sherapy
All religion is 'revealed' religion and it is all manmade. Has a Jehovah's Witness, Hare Krishna, Mormon or other member of a religion come to your door to try to convert you to their way of believing? Have you ever had a discussion with them and come to the conclusion that no matter what you said, no matter how good your reasoning and logic, that there was no way that you were ever going to have a meeting of the minds with this person. Why can’t they understand the religion you were born into is the correct one? Why don’t they understand your parents were right and would never teach you the wrong things? Why can’t they see that out of the thousands of religious doctrines of the world, yours is the one true religion and how lucky your were to be born into it? This is why, and it is so simple. They are wondering the very same things about you! Why can’t you understand the religion they were ‘born’ into is the correct one? Why can’t you understand their parents would never teach them the wrong things? All the world over and in every religious denomination, this is the way it is..period.

While each of us were still lying in the nursery in the hospitals where we were born, our religions were already laid out for us. Think about it for once! We had no knowledge of this world, our parents, god or even ourselves, but some things had already been decided on our behalf. Personally, I believe it should be against the law of the land everywhere to teach a child any religion! They should be given the opportunity to be a child until they reach an age where they can investigate all religions, and if they decide they need religion in their life, then that choice should be up to them. What choice do people have when they have been indoctrinated with the beliefs of family or culture and taught it is wrong to even question or investigate those beliefs often with the treat of damnation if they do? That is child abuse, plain and simple.

All religious systems enslave the mind. Certain things are demanded, certain things must be believed, certain things must be done and anyone who becomes the subject or servant of this superstition must give up all idea of individuality or hope of intellectual growth and progress. We must all become sheep in one flock. Do you understand sheep are the stupidest animals alive and will follow their leader to their own death?

I was raised as a southern fundamental christian and it has only been a couple of years since I left it all completely and for good. I have never felt more free or happy. I just wish I had done this much sooner in life.

edit based on new information ....My deeepst apologies mw's....

Edited by Supra Sheri

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Michelle
do not be detered by the your hatred of religion

Completely contrary to Sheri's earlier claims that she does not hate religion but has transcended above it.

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Michelle
your not new to insight and clarity and a fresh pov...

I'd say my pov is the freshest around here but it isn't appreciated because it doesn't fill the "you have to hate religion to the core of your being" criteria of the average UM Atheist.

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momentarylapseofreason
I'm lost now.

I guess you are. That is a flaw. Find your way back. :lol::P

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Sherapy
I'd say my pov is the freshest around here but it isn't appreciated because it doesn't fill the "you have to hate religion to the core of your being" criteria of the average UM Atheist.

michelle, hey happy new year to you and yours why is it only hate too you?? its not personal..

you do have a great style so why not voice your thoughts instead....i have missed you too...

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lukie_cox

God is real and he well be back 2012! :alien:

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evancj
God is real and he well be back 2012! :alien:

Did your voice of reason tell you this?

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sede-x-teh-bomb
I'd say my pov is the freshest around here but it isn't appreciated because it doesn't fill the "you have to hate religion to the core of your being" criteria of the average UM Atheist.

For you to make a statement like that you obviously have read none of my posts in this thread.

and how is your pov the freshest? i would love to hear it.

Did your voice of reason tell you this?

LOL

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