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Undeadskeptic

Beware the Burrunjor

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Undeadskeptic

Most of Australia is a vast desert, explored only by satellite and aircraft. Much of it is closed to the public, and hardly anyone goes there anyways. Much of it is remote, and may harbor unknown animals.

The Burrunjor

There is an aboriginal legend of a frightening creature called the Burrunjor. The Burrunjor is said to be bipedal and have 2 short, almost useless arms - a good description of a carnivorous theropod.

Rex Gilroy's book, Out of the Dreamtime:

My readers might think I am going “off the deep end” for what I am about to propose, but there has, since long before the coming of White Man, traditions among the Aboriginal tribes of Australia’s ‘Red Centre’ to the Gulf Country and Kimberley region, of a ferocious giant reptilian carnivore that roams the landscape day and night in search of food, both animal and human.

Known as ‘Burrunjor’, the mere mention of his name is often guaranteed to send a shiver down the spine of any Aboriginal. Yet it is not only Aborigines who have claimed to have seen these monsters, but also many Europeans, stockmen, residents of remote cattle stations and 4-wheel drive travellers.

Burrunjor can best be described as a huge, bipedal-walking reptilian monster. Tyrannosaurus comes to mind. Whatever Burrunjor is, ‘he’ leaves huge three-toed tracks behind him wherever he strides. This is significant, because there have been suggestions that Burrunjor could be based upon the ‘extinct’ giant Australian monitor Lizard, Megalania prisca, which reached up to 30ft [9.14m] and which is almost the height reached by Burrunjors claimed seen by both Aborigines and Europeans.

Out of the Dreamtime – The Search for Australasia’s Unknown Animals” contains three chapters on the subject of giant monitor lizards, not just in Australia, but throughout Australasia. Burrunjor is however, something else, for while even a giant monitor might copy its smaller relatives and adopt a bipedal stance, even to run a short distance, Burrunjor is said to maintain a bipedal stance for considerable distances.

If indeed Burrunjor is a surviving form of dinosaur, ‘he’ belongs to the Theropods, the group of reptilian bipeds that flourished throughout the Cretaceous period, becoming extinct by 65 million or so years ago. Perhaps Burrunjor is a ‘neodinosaur’, that is an evolved latter-day offshoot from this group.

Campfire stories substantiating Aboriginal claims are commonplace across the far north. Back in 1978, a Northern Territory busman and explorer, Bryan Clark, related a story to me of his own that had taken place some years before. While mustering cattle in the Urapunji area, he became lost in the remote wilderness of that part of Arnhem Land. It took him three days to find his way out of the region and back to the homestead from where he originally set out.

He had not known at the time, but his footprints had been picked up and followed by two Aboriginal trackers and a mounted policeman. On the first night of their search they camped on the outskirts of the Burrunjor scrub, even though the two trackers protested strongly against doing so. The policeman hobbled his horse, cooked their meal, then climbed into his swag and went to sleep.

Later that night the two Aborigines shouting intelligibly and grasping for their packs and saddles suddenly woke him up. The policeman also realised at this moment that the ground appeared to be shaking. Hurriedly getting to his feet, he too gathered up his belongings, and shortly afterwards, the three galloped away. As he told Bryan Clark later at the Urapunji homestead, he had also heard a sound, somewhat like a loud puffing or grunting noise, certainly loud enough to be coming from some large animal.

When asked if he intended to include this incident in his report, he replied he would not because he feared no one would believe him.

The policeman warned Bryan never again to return to that area, because if he got lost there again he’d be “on his own”, as he would not come looking for him! The region’s cave art, thousands of years old, depicts these monstrous animals. Many Aborigines believe these monsters wander back and forth across the Gulf country and Cape York to this day.

Back in 1950, cattlemen lost stock to some mysterious beast that left the mutilated, half-eaten remains of cows and bulls in its wake over a wide area, stretching between the border country and Burketown. Searchers on horseback found huge reptilian tracks of some bipedal-walking beast. They followed these three-toed tracks with their cattle dogs through some rough jungle terrain until they entered swampland beyond which was more dense scrub.

However, it was at this point that the cattle dogs became uneasy and ran off. The horses were also uneasy and obviously did not want to cross the swamp. While most of the cattlemen decided their animals knew best, two men set off on foot with their carbines.

The story goes that they soon came across further tracks in an open area beyond the swamp. While his mate searched about, the other man briefly spotted the dark form of an enormous creature, perhaps 30ft in height, further off in dense timber. The men left the scene in haste.

Johnny Mathews, a part-Aboriginal tracker, claimed to have seen a 25ft tall bipedal reptilian monster, moving through scrub near lagoon Creek on the Gulf coast one day in 1961. “Hardly anyone outside my own people believes my story, but I known what I saw”, he said to me in 1970.

In 1985 a 4-wheel drive vehicle and it s family of travellers, the Askeys, heading for Roper River Mission, happened to take a back road for some sightseeing. Just before they were to pull up and turn around to resume their journey to the mission, they all saw, moving together across an open plain some distance away, two bipedal-walking reptilian creatures a good 20ft tall respectively.

“The monsters were a greyish-brown colour and dinosaur-like in appearance. We didn’t wait around”, said the father, Mr Greg Askey.

Edited by Undeadskeptic

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Undeadskeptic

My verdict is False. A TRex living in the outback is simply too close to impossible to be true. But then again there is a bit of evidence and Im actually very intrigued by it.

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OptimisticSkeptic

Undead, do you know of any links to pictures of the three-toed tracks or the referenced aboriginal art?

OS

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Incorrigible1

I don't believe in this creature, nor that it ever existed. And I shall do everything in my power to prevent intelligent discussion regarding the possibility, and ridicule anyone who puts a modicum of possibility such a creature could ever have existed or continues to exist.

OK, not really, but do you all see a common theme of about a third of posters here on a forum dedicated to conversation that cryptic creatures might exist? Some come here simply to stomp on any reasonable discussion by those who dare post upon this forum. How damnedly predictable of them, and how cowardly the moderation of this forum doesn't take more stringent measures to represent those very forum-members that make up said forum.

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Archosaur
Undead, do you know of any links to pictures of the three-toed tracks or the referenced aboriginal art?

OS

Prehaps the Rainbow Serpent, or one of it's relatives is out and about again. It was depicted as a large (in many myths mountainous in size) multicolored, with legs and horns. This creature is one of the principal totems and deities of the Aborigines.

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draconic chronicler

If it does exist, it may be a megalania seen in the act of "tripoding" when is would look the most impressive. Some monitors form a "tripod with their back legs and tail and raise their body straight up so they can get a better view of the landscape when out hunting.

Another possibility more logical than a theropod dinosaur is the kind of terrestrial crocodile that took over the niche of theropods in the age of mammals. I don't recall the name at the moment, but they were bipedal like theropods. In other places, modern felines finally out evolved them, but they may have lived on in Australia. I am not sure if the terrestrial croc of Australia the Quinkana had a bipedal gait. Perhaps its fossil evidence is as sketchy as megalania.

The problem with megelania or crocs though is that they don't leave the characteristic three-toed track of a theropod dinosaur, though a bipedal croc may have eventually developed such a foot.

But let's hope its real that that is is a dinosaur, for we could learn so much from it, since there are still plenty of monitors and crocs around.

Edited by draconic chronicler

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iain c

if ,and it's a big if,-there are some massive lizards on the prowl,then i would think that the outback would be the perfect place to harbour them.The distance untouched is just vast.

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theSOURCE

There was also an Australian Aboriginal legend about a creature called a Kuta:

However there was something even more remarkable about the description of Kulta, the giant serpent that had lived according to Central Australian Aboriginal folklore, in the swamps and water courses of the far north when all the land of that part of Australia was a lush jungle and swamp covered region. Kulta it was said had a small head at the end of along narrow neck, which was attached to an enormously bulky body supported by four great legs. He moved about the swamps and landscape trailing along pointed tail behind him. Kulta was so long that if he were to enter a forest his head would protrude from one end and his tail from the other.

Kulta's food so the legends say consisted of plant life in the forests and swamps. All the natives feared Kulta whom they regarded with great awe. Whenever Kulta moved about the countryside the ground shook with his tremendous weight. Unfortunately there came a time when all the land dried up, the forests turned to desert, the swamps emptied and Kulta died. If the apperance of Kulta as described in the ancient folklore of the Central Australian tribes is correct then Kulta could best be described as a member of the Sauropoda, that family of Triassic reptillia which contained the best known dinosaurs, ie the Brontosaurus, Diplodocus, Camerosaurus, and others.

Mysterious Australia

For years I wondered why so many countries around the world have ancient legends about creatures that resemble dinosaurs. But then I realized that those legends were being interpreted with relatively modern concepts such as paleontology. In other words, some modern folklorist and cryptozoology enthusiasts tend to label these creatures dinosaurs, when in fact they may simply be completely mythological, a misidentified indigenous animal or some unknown species of reptile.

I think it would be great if a living sauropod or theropod dinosaur was discovered living in some secluded area. Even the discovery of a recently extinct form of dino would be fascinating news. Unfortunately, most of the evidence indicates that that is an unlikely scenario. :(

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Swbf2

two words : JURASSIC PARK!!!!

but yeah i don't know its cool to imagine it but it just dosen't seem that a t-rex could be walking around in the desert

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WraithGod

Living "dinosaurs" = modern birds and archosaurs. Not to mention that a huge bipedal creature like that would be endothermic and would require a food source significantly greater than the barren Outback can provide. Estimates of Megalania's extinction run as late as about 18 000 years ago, so it's far more likely, but again, those things weighed literally a ton and given the Outback's history and current condition we would almost certainly have seen specimens driven to attack livestock.

Edit: My point is that it's a nice story driven by imagination and perfectly normal phenomena.

Edited by WraithGod

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Nik Xues

a reptile requires very little food

a nile croc can support itself with one zebra for i think a year.

if this creature is more like DC suggested than it could hide in the swamps between hunts lazing about to save energy.

it should be relatively easy to find. but i do not know if it is territorial so that may affect the return.

personally i beleive it is just a huge croc [they do get really big]

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WraithGod
a reptile requires very little food

a nile croc can support itself with one zebra for i think a year.

if this creature is more like DC suggested than it could hide in the swamps between hunts lazing about to save energy.

it should be relatively easy to find. but i do not know if it is territorial so that may affect the return.

personally i beleive it is just a huge croc [they do get really big]

What swamps are there in the Outback? It's one of the most arid regions on Earth if I remember correctly. Even Google Earth shows a bare expanse of rock and dry earth with a few scattered bushes.

Crocs are semiaquatic - they are designed to swim efficiently, and their mode of hunting is ambush from the water. It makes no sense for any living crocodilian to be in the Outback.

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~ MacDDT ~
I don't believe in this creature, nor that it ever existed. And I shall do everything in my power to prevent intelligent discussion regarding the possibility, and ridicule anyone who puts a modicum of possibility such a creature could ever have existed or continues to exist.

OK, not really, but do you all see a common theme of about a third of posters here on a forum dedicated to conversation that cryptic creatures might exist? Some come here simply to stomp on any reasonable discussion by those who dare post upon this forum. How damnedly predictable of them, and how cowardly the moderation of this forum doesn't take more stringent measures to represent those very forum-members that make up said forum.

The mods do a good job you just have to toughen up and stop taking criticism of theories as a personal attack ( i think you can block selected members pots from your view...but I'm not completely sure how to do it or if indeed you can)

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Nik Xues

there are swamps and crocs in the outback. one of the sightings state they followed it prints to a swamp.

and crocs love arid regions [that make you thirsty] thats how they ambush prey.

some crocs are known to leave their pond to find a better one.

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draconic chronicler
there are swamps and crocs in the outback. one of the sightings state they followed it prints to a swamp.

and crocs love arid regions [that make you thirsty] thats how they ambush prey.

some crocs are known to leave their pond to find a better one.

Yes, ans some prehistoric crocs were bipedal and completely terrestrial. There was also try climbing crocs, but their most succesful niche has been the water, where all the species live today, though this wasn't always the case. Yes there could be desert dwelling crocodilian that just run on their hind legs.

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WraithGod
Yes, ans some prehistoric crocs were bipedal and completely terrestrial. There was also try climbing crocs, but their most succesful niche has been the water, where all the species live today, though this wasn't always the case. Yes there could be desert dwelling crocodilian that just run on their hind legs.

Those crocodilians were evolutionary dead-ends who were pushed out of the niches you mentioned above. =)

And of course crocs love arid regions, but unlike with the Nile in the Sahara the Outback doesn't have a whole lot of significant waterways to support the crocs and their methods. Can you show me some swamps and large rivers in the uninhabited deep Outback as described in the stories?

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kenshinx

well, it's old stories.. whatever it is i think its dead :)

i'll vote kind of giant lizard .. you know.. lizards who stand and running

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Undeadskeptic
Undead, do you know of any links to pictures of the three-toed tracks or the referenced aboriginal art?

OS

I have a photo of Australian Cryptozoologist holding a Massive thee toed plaster cast of a recently made footprint, after a farmer claimed to have encountered a Tyrannosaurus on his field. post-66256-1199694085_thumb.jpg

For aboriginal art depicting the monster and more information please visit: Link 1 and Link 2

For even more information, please visit Rex Gilroy's very intriguing web site: Mysterious Australia.

Although I do not believe in this creature one must admit that it is very interesting, is it not?

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WraithGod
I have a photo of Australian Cryptozoologist holding a Massive thee toed plaster cast of a recently made footprint, after a farmer claimed to have encountered a Tyrannosaurus on his field. post-66256-1199694085_thumb.jpg

For aboriginal art depicting the monster and more information please visit: Link 1 and Link 2

For even more information, please visit Rex Gilroy's very intriguing web site: Mysterious Australia.

Although I do not believe in this creature one must admit that it is very interesting, is it not?

Fresh or fossilized footprint? Fossilized footprints can look very recent, and if it's just a cast there's really no way to tell.

Which large carnosaurs lived in desert environments by the way? As far as I know they lived in much lusher regions that could supply the needed prey. Not to mention the population size required for a breeding population of the species.

On one of the pages you linked:

"Another feathered giant was the 3m tall Dromornis stirtoni, and we filmed a cast skeleton of this species in the Museum of Central Australia in Alice Springs, where there is an emu skeleton for size comparison. This species is though to have become extinct around 26,000 years ago. They would certainly have been known to the Aborigines."

People are extremely unreliable eyewitnesses; such a creature would appear to be a dinosaur from a distance, and leave three-toed footprints.

Also, this link for the footprint: http://www.abc.net.au/dinosaurs/meet_the_dinos/ozdino2.htm

Edited by WraithGod

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Undeadskeptic
There was also an Australian Aboriginal legend about a creature called a Kuta:

Mysterious Australia

For years I wondered why so many countries around the world have ancient legends about creatures that resemble dinosaurs. But then I realized that those legends were being interpreted with relatively modern concepts such as paleontology. In other words, some modern folklorist and cryptozoology enthusiasts tend to label these creatures dinosaurs, when in fact they may simply be completely mythological, a misidentified indigenous animal or some unknown species of reptile.

I think it would be great if a living sauropod or theropod dinosaur was discovered living in some secluded area. Even the discovery of a recently extinct form of dino would be fascinating news. Unfortunately, most of the evidence indicates that that is an unlikely scenario. :(

Freaky, this topic was originally going to include the Kulta too, but I decided against because there is more evidence for the Burrunjor. Thanks for the link dude. :-)

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WraithGod

"For years I wondered why so many countries around the world have ancient legends about creatures that resemble dinosaurs. But then I realized that those legends were being interpreted with relatively modern concepts such as paleontology. In other words, some modern folklorist and cryptozoology enthusiasts tend to label these creatures dinosaurs, when in fact they may simply be completely mythological, a misidentified indigenous animal or some unknown species of reptile."

Hehe, yep, if dinosaurs existed today, mammals wouldn't hold the top predator position anymore. Natural history tells us that. =P Dinos kept us suppressed for more than a hundred million years before they were wiped out. If there is something that has the relative same body plan as a dinosaur existing today, it's not a dinosaur. Theropods looked a hell of a lot like modern ground-running birds, and brachiosaurs were quite similar to elephants beyond the neck and tail. If someone described a rhino to you without knowing its physiology, you might think ceratopsian.

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theSOURCE
Freaky, this topic was originally going to include the Kulta too, but I decided against because there is more evidence for the Burrunjor. Thanks for the link dude. :-)

Two legends coming from the same continent describing two completely types of dino-like creatures is compelling indeed. They may not have been dinosaurs in the true sense of the word, but there is always the chance that they may have been some as-yet undiscovered species of enormous reptile.

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theSOURCE
Hehe, yep, if dinosaurs existed today, mammals wouldn't hold the top predator position anymore. Natural history tells us that. =P Dinos kept us suppressed for more than a hundred million years before they were wiped out. If there is something that has the relative same body plan as a dinosaur existing today, it's not a dinosaur. Theropods looked a hell of a lot like modern ground-running birds, and brachiosaurs were quite similar to elephants beyond the neck and tail. If someone described a rhino to you without knowing its physiology, you might think ceratopsian.

Interesting you should mention that. China has a legend of a creature that closely resembles a protoceritops.

There are so many more reasons why dinosaurs cannot exit today as they did millions of years ago. One very important reason is that the oxygen content was much greater back then (that could account why the huge creatures evolved into small modern birds). It's because of those reasons that one shouldn't expect to find any form of modern living dino that resembles those of the past.

However, there is always that pesky theory of evolution....

Just maybe, some form of dino may have evolved into a species that could survive in our modern day atmosphere. It's highly unlikely, but you never know...

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Archosaur

Back when scientists believed that mammals just out-competed slow and dim witted dinosaurs (and when much of the earth remained unexplored) small, isolated groups of dinos remained plausible. Today, there is hardly a spot on earth that has not only been surveyed, but is covered in some of our trash. Also: dinos are not believed to be fast, and capable in intellect to mammals and birds; if a family of dinos was loose in the wild, they would quickly dominate the local environment, and spread. So, as much as I would love it if it were true, an isolated family of "last dinos" just dosen;t make sense. :(

Now, if you want to go and suggest something supernatural (like DC has) you are opening a whole different box... :unsure2:

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WraithGod
Back when scientists believed that mammals just out-competed slow and dim witted dinosaurs (and when much of the earth remained unexplored) small, isolated groups of dinos remained plausible. Today, there is hardly a spot on earth that has not only been surveyed, but is covered in some of our trash. Also: dinos are not believed to be fast, and capable in intellect to mammals and birds; if a family of dinos was loose in the wild, they would quickly dominate the local environment, and spread. So, as much as I would love it if it were true, an isolated family of "last dinos" just dosen;t make sense. :(

Now, if you want to go and suggest something supernatural (like DC has) you are opening a whole different box... :unsure2:

Lol, I won't be doing that. =P

"Just maybe, some form of dino may have evolved into a species that could survive in our modern day atmosphere. It's highly unlikely, but you never know..."

You said it yourself. Birds. Ancient archosaurs that produced T. rex also produced grey parrots. Ancient canids that produced the dire wolf produced the grey wolf. Different beasts, same line.

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