Sensible Logic Posted February 28, 2012 #401 Share Posted February 28, 2012 OK, It has not Happened Yet, And God told me it won't happen. Is that better. The burden of proof lay on those who think they can do it, but have not succeeded, be it laws, science, or God. It has not happened. Hope I worded it better that time lol. Love Omnaka Understood. God told you it wouldn't happen. So if it does happen in your lifetime how will that affect your view or belief in God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensible Logic Posted February 28, 2012 #402 Share Posted February 28, 2012 What does all this mean for my contribution to this thread? I think cloning is a stupid idea that should go the way of the dodo. We're concentrating too much on the wrong fields of study. Would you still think it a stupid idea if in the future you found out that you had something wrong with your heart that would kill you in a year but they could clone your heart from a single cell minus the problem and you could live out the rest of your life normally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Raven Posted February 28, 2012 #403 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Humans are animals. Anyone that studies genetics and evolutionary biology would know this. Within our DNA is the dna of other ancient species. This is why we have a "tail" bone, why people get born with webbed digits, or pointed ears, or internal organs that are not used for anything. Cancer and other diseases are also latent in our genes waiting for a catalyst to make it active. Similar to having dominant and recessive physical features, they come and go. Genetic engineering is working to remove these dangerous pieces of our rdna with the hopes of eradicating those detriments to our species. We're also not the only cognitively sentient species with emotion and reasoning on earth. We do have higher reasoning than other animals, but we are still animals nonetheless. With all that in mind, I think mankind is a plague. We eat and destroy everything in our path. We propegate without planning for the future. Mankind is already overpopulating the planet. Cloning may very well become possible, but is it wise? Not in the slightest. People are already living far longer than history has been ready for. Fewer people die, more people stay alive. The population is building so fast that mankind will run out of food if we don't slow down. Stephen Hawking himself said mankind won't survive within the next 200 years due to 1 of 2 things happening. We'll either overpopulate to the point that we starve ourselves to death, or we'll blow ourselves up. So it is either, humans will literally fornicate the human race into extinction, or we'll immolate ourselves with fire. Our only hope is to concentrate on finding more planets to live on, or slow ourselves down drastically. we are not a plague. any species that becomes too successful begins to destroy its environment in one way or another, just think too many deer on one island scenario... as for wiping ourselves out in less than 200 years? barring any unforeseen super asteroid or the sun deciding to quiet, we'll still be around in 200 years. heck, an all-out nuclear war wouldn't be able to wipe all the humans out. (90%? sure, but not 100%). sure we are going to be entering rough times ahead, but it is far from "world ending". cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted February 28, 2012 #404 Share Posted February 28, 2012 GPs or those who specialise in mental health? Have they brought it up to the doctor about hearing voices? Not all illnesses have apparent symptoms doctors can pick up, hiding such an illness doesn't mean having a clean bill of health. These claims are rather lacking when dealing with issues brought up in this thread. "Cloning is impossible because God told me so" is rather empty. Good doctors only consider Somone experiencing something as an illness if it interfears with a happy productive life or they want it to stop. It would be very bad practice to start labeling Somone insane who is happy and productive. Just because you have one experience of life does not mean another's is invalidated or wrong. This is a very immature view point that was given up years ago by the medical community. Mostly because it lead to horrendous miss deeds. Robert munroe went to a psychologist to to understand his OBEs... His doctor being a wise man, encouraged him to explore his new skill. Nothing wrong with Robert. He went on to become a sucessful writter and the munroe institute lives on in his name. Jung spoke to a psychological construct. Millions and millions of shaman/mystics/spiritual seekers both present and past have direct interactive relationships with other beings ( dosnt matter what they really are). The fact is that these people are all sain and productive... Even more so in many ways and they will continue to be so for probably ad long ad humans exist. To label people insane then try to drug them or worse based on narrow world views is the real insanity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted February 28, 2012 #405 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Good doctors only consider Somone experiencing something as an illness if it interfears with a happy productive life or they want it to stop.Complete garbage. Someone who refuses treatment for cancer still has cancer.It would be very bad practice to start labeling Somone insane who is happy and productive. Just because you have one experience of life does not mean another's is invalidated or wrong. This is a very immature view point that was given up years ago by the medical community. Mostly because it lead to horrendous miss deeds.You didn't answer the question. Did these people tell the doctors they hear voices?Robert munroe went to a psychologist to to understand his OBEs... His doctor being a wise man, encouraged him to explore his new skill. Nothing wrong with Robert. He went on to become a sucessful writter and the munroe institute lives on in his name.Good for him.Millions and millions of shaman/mystics/spiritual seekers both present and past have direct interactive relationships with other beings ( dosnt matter what they really are). The fact is that these people are all sain and productive... Even more so in many ways and they will continue to be so for probably ad long ad humans exist. To label people insane then try to drug them or worse based on narrow world views is the real insanity. Ofcourse they aren't all insane, some of them are con artists and charlatans. Edited February 28, 2012 by Rlyeh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted February 29, 2012 Author #406 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Understood. God told you it wouldn't happen. So if it does happen in your lifetime how will that affect your view or belief in God? I don't have a belief in God, I know the father and mother of my eternal spirit. Being that I know and love them, and know this world is just a blink in eternal life, no it would not do anything to my relationship with Father. but it won't happen. Love Omnaka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensible Logic Posted February 29, 2012 #407 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I don't have a belief in God, I know the father and mother of my eternal spirit. Being that I know and love them, and know this world is just a blink in eternal life, no it would not do anything to my relationship with Father. but it won't happen. Love Omnaka You hope it won't happen but there's know way to know it won't happen. You did say that God told you. That was where my error in thinking you believed in God came from. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcseeker Posted February 29, 2012 #408 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I don't have a belief in God, I know the father and mother of my eternal spirit. Being that I know and love them, and know this world is just a blink in eternal life, no it would not do anything to my relationship with Father. but it won't happen. Love Omnaka So you dont believe that it would even make you doubt the father and mother of your eternal spirit or even doubt yourself of what you experienced as genuine communication with a greater entity? Also please respond to my other posts thankyou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted March 2, 2018 Author #409 Share Posted March 2, 2018 On 1/16/2008 at 6:55 PM, Mr Walker said: Actually I would prefer to eat cloned meat (animal clones ) just as i prefer to eat genetically modified food. First, it would be grown under much stricter controls than present meat and therefore would likely be safer to eat. Secondly, (as far as meat can be said to be an efficient source of protein) cloned meat could be produced more efficiently, using less of the world's resources. This is also the reason i prefer gm food, because they are modified to be more efficient and can feed more people more economically (Yea i know that they are largely controlled by multinational corps intent only on profits, but still the potential is there) I would also be happy to use cloned human material for medical purposes( This does not involve growing a whole human, but rather the cloning and development of human tissue for everyhting from the treatment of burns to new organs.) This is already possible and has been successfully trialled in labs in several countries. Hi Mr walker, just looking at some old posts, would you still prefer eating GMO plants, knowing what we do now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted March 2, 2018 Author #410 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Like to check in every couple years on this one. Still no cloned humans, tha i am aware of. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podo Posted March 2, 2018 #411 Share Posted March 2, 2018 8 hours ago, Omnaka said: Hi Mr walker, just looking at some old posts, would you still prefer eating GMO plants, knowing what we do now? I prefer GMO plants, because I'm a fan of higher crop yields, less work to get those crop yields, and an increased ability to feed the planet in the future. Organic is nice and fine for the rich privileged few, but it can't sustain the current global population worldwide. Monsanto might be evil, but the science of genetic modification is certainly not. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 3, 2018 #412 Share Posted March 3, 2018 On 02/03/2018 at 9:23 PM, Omnaka said: Hi Mr walker, just looking at some old posts, would you still prefer eating GMO plants, knowing what we do now? I still believe humans have the abilty to improve on nature and that, by genetically modifying crops we can increase yields, and and thus feed more people There are many things in nature and natural foods which can be harmful to humans and some people are intolerant to or allergic to many natural products and ingredients. Humans have spent most of their history trying to improve on nature and only recently has natural become a positive catch phrase. As long as no one tells me what i can or can not eat, it doesn't bother me. I haven't seen any science proving or even indicating that genetically modified foodstuffs are harmful. My one concern would be the copyrighting of plant genomes. I don't think anyone has the right to do this, or indeed to copyright /patent, discoveries in medicine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted March 14, 2018 #413 Share Posted March 14, 2018 On 12/01/2008 at 5:04 AM, Omnaka said: What is it that you think keeps you breathing while you are unconscious, Your brain? I dont think so Or the cilia which moves the food down your digestive tract, or the tast buds on your tongue Tast, Could all this be Because uf the thing Called You? After ten years are you still this blatantly ignorant of biology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted March 14, 2018 #414 Share Posted March 14, 2018 On 02/03/2018 at 9:26 PM, Omnaka said: Like to check in every couple years on this one. Still no cloned humans, tha i am aware of. Does God put souls in test tube babies? Seems to be very little you are aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonman Posted March 14, 2018 #415 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) Isn't human cloning outlawed? That would explain the lack of people admitting to doing it. Edited March 14, 2018 by moonman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 16, 2018 #416 Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) On 15/03/2018 at 7:22 AM, moonman said: Isn't human cloning outlawed? That would explain the lack of people admitting to doing it. I don't think it will slow the Chinese down for a minute, especially if the y see an economic or military advantage in it Early this year the Chinese claim to have successfully cloned two macaque monkeys, showing that cloning primates is technically viable. It is significant for humans, not in that it allows human cloning, but in that parts of the procedure can be used to eliminate genetic disorders for humans The key step of transferring DNA might be combined with gene editing to correct genetic disorders in embryos, allowing healthy babies to be born, he said. https://www.apnews.com/38beefc3b75745a4b6105d48958a38b5 Edited March 16, 2018 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted March 19, 2018 Author #417 Share Posted March 19, 2018 On 3/13/2018 at 11:31 PM, Rlyeh said: Does God put souls in test tube babies? Seems to be very little you are aware of. Yes, but we've already talked about that. Test tube baby is not a clone. I thought you knew that. The title is human cloning cannot succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted March 19, 2018 Author #418 Share Posted March 19, 2018 On 3/3/2018 at 3:16 PM, Mr Walker said: I still believe humans have the abilty to improve on nature and that, by genetically modifying crops we can increase yields, and and thus feed more people There are many things in nature and natural foods which can be harmful to humans and some people are intolerant to or allergic to many natural products and ingredients. Humans have spent most of their history trying to improve on nature and only recently has natural become a positive catch phrase. As long as no one tells me what i can or can not eat, it doesn't bother me. I haven't seen any science proving or even indicating that genetically modified foodstuffs are harmful. My one concern would be the copyrighting of plant genomes. I don't think anyone has the right to do this, or indeed to copyright /patent, discoveries in medicine. Thats what Monsanto is doing. Genetically modifying and patenting plants and food. And using glysophate to keep bugs out which has pretty much been proven to cause cancer. Many countries refuse to let Gmo's be sold in their country because of this. Something interesting. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156025646744454&id=11791104453&_rdr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted March 19, 2018 #419 Share Posted March 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, Omnaka said: Yes, but we've already talked about that. Test tube baby is not a clone. I thought you knew that. The title is human cloning cannot succeed. God puts souls in test tubes does he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted March 19, 2018 Author #420 Share Posted March 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rlyeh said: God puts souls in test tubes does he? Did i stutter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted March 19, 2018 Author #421 Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Rlyeh said: God puts souls in test tubes does he? Weve been over this 10 years ago. Test tube babies are not human clones. I thought you knew this. Ps God puts a spirit in to the fertilized egg where it bonds with the body. A soul is the spirit and body bonded. Edited March 19, 2018 by Omnaka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted March 19, 2018 Author #422 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Well i see no one has any new evidence of human cloning. I'll check back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted March 19, 2018 #423 Share Posted March 19, 2018 24 minutes ago, Omnaka said: Weve been over this 10 years ago. Test tube babies are not human clones. I thought you knew this. Ps God puts a spirit in to the fertilized egg where it bonds with the body. A soul is the spirit and body bonded. Then twins share a soul and chimeras have two? Your understanding of biology is laughably pathetic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 20, 2018 #424 Share Posted March 20, 2018 22 hours ago, Omnaka said: Thats what Monsanto is doing. Genetically modifying and patenting plants and food. And using glysophate to keep bugs out which has pretty much been proven to cause cancer. Many countries refuse to let Gmo's be sold in their country because of this. Something interesting. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156025646744454&id=11791104453&_rdr Glysophate is a herbicide, and certainly cancerous, but if you can create genetically modified plants which are naturally stronger, more vigorous, and resistant to disease etc you can reduce or even eliminate the need for herbicides and pesticides in agricultural crops Without genetic modifications, the only way to feed the world is through pesticides and herbicides, which do create environmental harm and danger to humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted March 20, 2018 Author #425 Share Posted March 20, 2018 On 3/19/2018 at 2:31 AM, Rlyeh said: Then twins share a soul and chimeras have two? Your understanding of biology is laughably pathetic. Your understanding of spirit is understandable, or lack there of. One spirit per body. I take it you have not found any human clones yet, and is why you keep bringing other methods of birth in to this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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