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Cloning Can Not Succeed


Omnaka

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Ever wonder why dead Bodies crap them selves as dhey die? The spirit which holds it normally is gone. LOL.

Yes, but so are the rest of your bodily functions. Namely the circulatory system, that pumps blood to the muscles, and brings oxygen and nutrients to the muscles that keep this from happening when you are alive.

If the body had no spirit in it, and it's bodily funtions continued, this would not happen.

Again, no one knows for sure, and anyone who claims they do know should not be taken seriously.

Edited by BIGK1974
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Becasue science deals in reality, not in religion. There is no evidence for a soul, so as far as science is concerned, there will be no concessions or precautions made for something that doesn't exist scientifically and exists only in the realm of spirituality and theory.

Exactly. That is my point. This is why religion needs to question these things, because science will not. Science is only concerned with "how" can we do something, they never ask "should" they do it.

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Ever wonder why dead Bodies crap them selves as dhey die?

Because the muscles that keep the poop in relax when the brain stops sending the signal to hold. There's nothing mystical about it.

If the body had no spirit in it, and it's bodily funtions continued, this would not happen.

What about brain dead people, Omnaka? Are their spirits in their body or out? If only machines are breathing for you, has your soul left or is it stuck?

If the body had no spirit in it, and it's bodily funtions continued, this would not happen.

Again, no one knows for sure, and anyone who claims they do know should not be taken seriously.

Are you taking Omnaka seriously? Omnaka claims that God told them about this spirit stuff, and Omnaka certainly has not posted any caveat indicating that they might not be right. So should we not take Omnaka seriously?

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So is it your postition then, that breaking the 10 commandments is not wrong? Is it wrong to kill and rape? If your assertion is that man can do no wring because God knwos we are doing it and asw it before our creation, does that mean war is good?

No, those comandments were sugestions on How to live a good life, When one lives life and messes up, hopefully he learns from his exp, sees the differance, and Makes it back To Good and Love, some actually do need to step in dog poop Barefoot to know it is not good, or know the differance, This learning exp, is to be expected , It is why we are here to begin with.

This is one giant learning school.

Then I hope that, when clones actually become a reality, not many people think like you. It could lead to a clone holocaust.

I have No feelings one way or the other about cloning, because I know it will never get off the ground.

My OP was speaking Directly about Human cloning, My question To father was About Human cloning, However I did ask about Taking Donated Organs, and was told that the spirit inhabiting the Body would accept, and adopt the organ, or reject it.

But if a clone has no spirit, and I needed a kidney from my clone, would I have only a partial spirit, since some of my body would have no spirit? What part of the body does the spirit live in? If the spirit lives in the heart, should it be illegal to use a clone heart for a transplant, as the spirit might be an evil one?

I guess Science, and Society will aswer that someday

So then a sad animal spirit that didn't go to heaven must have jumped into the cloned dolly before she died in the lab, because she lived 8 years, is that your position?

No I believe It could have been any earth bound spirit , which did not go through the proper channels to recieve a Body, thus after becoming Full conscious again, was sad at the fact that they did not do it right, acording to Their will which they wanted To be Apart of Gods will, Basically beating them self up for a poor decision,

Love Omnaka

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Life is life no matter how it's created. People have been playing God ever since we started having babies since we're creating life and He's not magicing them out of dirt. I personally believe that every living thing(including plants) owns it's own spirit(or whatever your belief is). Let me give an example of my opinion. Lets say you are the spirit of any given creature and your computer is the body. The software is free will/conscious thought/emotions and the hardware is the physical limitations of any given living thing. Just as you can be as intelligent as you want, your computer can never exceed it's capacity. Just like every living thing has an equally strong spirit, but the bodies they inhabit can simply be incapable of operating above their limits.

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Because the muscles that keep the poop in relax when the brain stops sending the signal to hold. There's nothing mystical about it.

What about brain dead people, Omnaka? Are their spirits in their body or out? If only machines are breathing for you, has your soul left or is it stuck?

Are you taking Omnaka seriously? Omnaka claims that God told them about this spirit stuff, and Omnaka certainly has not posted any caveat indicating that they might not be right. So should we not take Omnaka seriously?

Whats this we stuff Kimosabe, Freewill means everyone can make up their own mind, Or Are your beliefs The Moral Majority?

And wether you believe or not , wont change what I know.

Love Omnaka

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My OP was speaking Directly about Human cloning, My question To father was About Human cloning, However I did ask about Taking Donated Organs, and was told that the spirit inhabiting the Body would accept, and adopt the organ, or reject it.

No I believe It could have been any earth bound spirit , which did not go through the proper channels to recieve a Body, thus after becoming Full conscious again, was sad at the fact that they did not do it right, acording to Their will which they wanted To be Apart of Gods will, Basically beating them self up for a poor decision,

Love Omnaka

What about the body rejecting pregnancy? Not just a miscarriage but the inclination of the female body to reject pregnancy after the birth of a first child, body sees as an invader and attacks.

you seem to completely through out body responses based on chemical reaction and lump it all together with God's will, which to you is unconditional love. If your God is all about unconditional Love then why is he causing so much pain with miscarriages to people that want babies?

also, if you have been to Heaven, please tell me why the animals there are so sad.

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also, if you have been to Heaven, please tell me why the animals there are so sad.

They are sad?

I don't know if I want to know this... :(

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They are sad?

I don't know if I want to know this... :(

thats what omnaka said

To answer your third Question, I do not think Dolly was evil, But I have been to Heaven and seen very sad Animal spirits.
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So then a sad animal spirit that didn't go to heaven must have jumped into the cloned dolly before she died in the lab, because she lived 8 years, is that your position?

No I believe It could have been any earth bound spirit , which did not go through the proper channels to recieve a Body, thus after becoming Full conscious again,

so Dolly could have been a human spirit, possibly?

You also said that a clone could not live unless it had a spirit. And the only spirit that would go into a clone was either a sad one or an evil one. Would clones be kept in a jail of some sort until we found out how sad or evil they were, and whether or not they were safe to come out and be around people?

YOU say you wouln't harm a clone, but I believe others with fundamental beliefs would.

Isn't it possible, Omnaka, that a soul does not controll bodily functions?

Is it possible that "soul" is a human made concept to explain something we can not grasp, namely our self-awareness and self identification?

Isn't it, therefore, possible that cloning can and will work?

Did God tell you what happened with Dolly the sheep yet? Do you think Dolly had a sad person soul, an evil person soul, or a sad animal soul?

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What about the body rejecting pregnancy? Not just a miscarriage but the inclination of the female body to reject pregnancy after the birth of a first child, body sees as an invader and attacks.

you seem to completely through out body responses based on chemical reaction and lump it all together with God's will, which to you is unconditional love. If your God is all about unconditional Love then why is he causing so much pain with miscarriages to people that want babies?

also, if you have been to Heaven, please tell me why the animals there are so sad.

There are Many reasons why spirits are sad, one is They have not done , or learned what they came down to experence, leaving the spirit heart with regrets.

As for Miscariages THere are Many reasons also, Freewill plays a part for a baby going to incarnate in to a body where The host, or Mother, as in the Baby spirit may not like the Mother's spirit, or be compatible.

There are Many Mothers who have Had Abortions, Whome no baby spirit wants to become her Child,

Because Reincarnation is true, these Babies who remember The unloving Parent hating them enough to scrape them out of the womb, suck them out and throw them away, These Mothers are talked about in Baby heaven, by the Baby spirits who have experienced This Kind Of love. Thats just a couple reasons.

There Has been a change In heaven Regarding these children, I will not tell now, It is a chapter in my book.

But A miracle has occured For the better , of these spirit children.

Love Omnaka

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Whats this we stuff Kimosabe, Freewill means everyone can make up their own mind, Or Are your beliefs The Moral Majority?

"WE" is WE as the human race. Our scientists KNOW what makes the body perform involuntary functions. We can even make them stop by manipulating or damaging that part of the brain. You can make up your own mind about this, but if you choose to not accept modern medical science and instead base your ideas on a converstation with God that is contrary to medical science, you have to realize that your viewpoint is outside the realm of modern scientific knowledge.

Do I have the right to claim that a television is really a window into another realm? Well, modern science knows what a tv is and how television signals and receivers work. I have a right to believe differently, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm still wrong.

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They are sad?

I don't know if I want to know this... :(

Not all are sad, It was a place Where I was to learn a lesson In a NDE.

I will post it On the Nde Thread soon.

Love Omnaka

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so Dolly could have been a human spirit, possibly?

You also said that a clone could not live unless it had a spirit. And the only spirit that would go into a clone was either a sad one or an evil one. Would clones be kept in a jail of some sort until we found out how sad or evil they were, and whether or not they were safe to come out and be around people?

YOU say you wouln't harm a clone, but I believe others with fundamental beliefs would.

Isn't it possible, Omnaka, that a soul does not controll bodily functions?

Is it possible that "soul" is a human made concept to explain something we can not grasp, namely our self-awareness and self identification?

Isn't it, therefore, possible that cloning can and will work?

Did God tell you what happened with Dolly the sheep yet? Do you think Dolly had a sad person soul, an evil person soul, or a sad animal soul?

I told you this post was about Humans and human clones, I did not ask about Dolly. CAN U HEAR ME NOW.

Because You have already Judged Me and My beliefs why Do you continue to ask me Questions?

State your Truth and leave me out of it.

Love Omnaka

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The Gods clone and made us!

And your not Elohim so how would you know if the clones body would be doomed too failer?

He may put a spirit right in that clone just like he did us.

post-67140-1200080891_thumb.jpg

Edited by lukie_cox
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Are you sure it was God?

Just asking.

No doubt about, The One and only.

Love Omnaka

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The Gods clone and made us!

And your not Elohim so how would you know if the clones body would be doomed too failer?

He may put a spirit right in that clone just like he did us.

Please read The Opening Post, and some of my other replies, I never claimed To be God of this world, I state Clearly That Father Is God of this world along with Mother who is The Holy Spirit, Fathers wife My Mother.

Humans are not God, and taking short cuts will not produce any good thing.

Love Omnaka

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There are Many reasons why spirits are sad, one is They have not done , or learned what they came down to experence, leaving the spirit heart with regrets.

As for Miscariages THere are Many reasons also, Freewill plays a part for a baby going to incarnate in to a body where The host, or Mother, as in the Baby spirit may not like the Mother's spirit, or be compatible.

There are Many Mothers who have Had Abortions, Whome no baby spirit wants to become her Child,

Because Reincarnation is true, these Babies who remember The unloving Parent hating them enough to scrape them out of the womb, suck them out and throw them away, These Mothers are talked about in Baby heaven, by the Baby spirits who have experienced This Kind Of love. Thats just a couple reasons.

There Has been a change In heaven Regarding these children, I will not tell now, It is a chapter in my book.

But A miracle has occured For the better , of these spirit children.

Love Omnaka

So Heaven to you is not a place of eternal joy being directly in God's place surrounded by the place his Love originates...there is still sadness. This doesn't seem to hold to the rest of your ideals. Just an observation.

Why would God not send a compatable spirit baby to a mother? Why wouldn't the spirit know it wasn't compatable before pregnancy?

My mother had 5 abortions and she has 2 of us...Are out spirits gluttons for punishment then? And then why do so many parents that had abortions, also have children?

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I told you this post was about Humans and human clones, I did not ask about Dolly. CAN U HEAR ME NOW.

YOU said a clone could not live without a soul. But Dolly did live for 8 years.

So, how do you explain this?

You said something about an animal soul going into Dolly that was either sad, or an evil human soul, or a sad human soul. Or maybe souls don't identify as human or animal?

You made the statement that clones can't live without a soul. Dolly seems to refute this. Don't yell at me because your theory has hit a snag.

Because You have already Judged Me and My beliefs why Do you continue to ask me Questions?

To see how you deal with the inconsistencies of your argument. I disagree with your assertion that cloning can't work. I disagree with your assertion that only a sad or evil spirit could make a clone survive (that's dangerous thinking....) and I disgaree with your assertion that a spirit or soul runs bodily functions. So does science.

I haven't gotten mad at you, why are you mad at me? Don't you think I have the right to debate this with you? I've not been diserespectfull or insulting at all.

So I'm going to keep asking questions until I understand your position fully, or until we run into something that you can't explain. Like Dolly the cloned sheep who lived for 8 years and then died of a common sheep disease.

State your Truth and leave me out of it.

This is YOUR thread!

Do I not have the right to ask questions of your theory? You don't like that? you want to come online and make an unscientific statement based on something you claim God told you, but then you expect that I "leave you out of it?"

No way.

This is far too interesting. I dont' meet many people who claim to have direct conversations with God where God explains things like souls and cloning and biology. Even if I don't beleive you, what an opportnity to explore human behavior this is!

Plus, it's a good exercise in rhetoric and debate.

I'm stuck on the idea that a clone doesn't get a soul, except for sad or evil ones that jump in at the opportunity. Why don't we remember life before we had bodies? Would the evil souls that jump into clones remember their previous lives? Do they get erased at birth?

Where does the soul come into the body? Is it in the whomb? If clone embreyos are implanted into a human whomb after cell division starts, why couldn't God put the soul in there?

Did God tell you he doesn't want to do that because we shoulnd't be cloning people?

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"WE" is WE as the human race. Our scientists KNOW what makes the body perform involuntary functions. We can even make them stop by manipulating or damaging that part of the brain. You can make up your own mind about this, but if you choose to not accept modern medical science and instead base your ideas on a converstation with God that is contrary to medical science, you have to realize that your viewpoint is outside the realm of modern scientific knowledge.

Do I have the right to claim that a television is really a window into another realm? Well, modern science knows what a tv is and how television signals and receivers work. I have a right to believe differently, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm still wrong.

You may claim anything you want, and believe what you want, as I do but Fishing For others to believe as you do by condemning what I say is not Cool in My book. Iam not looking For lobiest to support My views, and say if you do not believe me it is understandable.

I do not care what you are wrong about, What you believe and experience is yours, if you want to share what you believe, Feel free, I do not have to believe it, nor will I say Listen to this guy, Can you really believe this, He has no proof, or vwhat ever you said to start this side track a couple Post back.

You can only Judge your self, and what you believe, not someone elses.

State your truth is the name of THe game here.

Love Omnaka

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Humans are not God, and taking short cuts will not produce any good thing.

Are antibiotics and modern medicine short cuts too? When someone has strep throat, should we not administer antibiotics, and instead just pray? If god gave us the knowledge to learn about antibiotics, should't we use them for good? And if God gave us the knowledge to learn about cloning, why shouldn't we use that for good too?

Why would God not send a compatable spirit baby to a mother? Why wouldn't the spirit know it wasn't compatable before pregnancy?

My mother had 5 abortions and she has 2 of us...Are out spirits gluttons for punishment then? And then why do so many parents that had abortions, also have children?

EXCELLENT questions, ravergirl. Do you remember why you chose or got assigned to your mother when you were a soul? Does anyone? Does God wipe that memory away?

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You may claim anything you want, and believe what you want, as I do but Fishing For others to believe as you do by condemning what I say is not Cool in My book.

Making claims that God told you clones will only survive if they have evil or sad spirits that jump into them is not cool in my book.

You can only Judge your self, and what you believe, not someone elses.

Well, that's certainly not true. We have a responisibility to determine what is true and what is false and what to believe.

You certainly have a right to believe whatever you want.

But I certainly have the right to judge that you are wrong and to beleive something else.

State your truth is the name of THe game here.

Ok. We don't even know if a soul exists. Dolly the cloned sheep existed for 8 years in good health before contracting a common sheep disease. A part of the brain controlls bodily functions, not a soul.

Denying my right to question your ideas is not cool in my book either.

And earlier, I didn't condemn what you think (although you forced me too now) I only asked questions that you couldn't answer, in order to push you to defend your belief and to learn more about it. Sorry you aren't comfortable with this.

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So Heaven to you is not a place of eternal joy being directly in God's place surrounded by the place his Love originates...there is still sadness. This doesn't seem to hold to the rest of your ideals. Just an observation.

Why would God not send a compatable spirit baby to a mother? Why wouldn't the spirit know it wasn't compatable before pregnancy?

My mother had 5 abortions and she has 2 of us...Are out spirits gluttons for punishment then? And then why do so many parents that had abortions, also have children?

There are Many levels of what we call Heaven, These levels can be over come, but Not all levels are Pure Joy, and not all are What many consider Hell either. Its like Not everything is Black and white There is Gray and all the colors inbetween. THe spirit itself decides which level it belongs.

I can not speak for all baby spirits, But many do not come before hand , And God does not make them, No spirit, Dead baby, or miscarriage.

The same reason Human clones wont work, What spirit wants to be a lab rat with out love?

God would not put a Baby spirit in a Mother who (THe Baby Spirit) has already experienced this sufferage and Pain, There must have been another willing to chance That your Mom was not going to do this again. Again freewill on the baby spirits part.

Love Omnaka

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I love how elaborate this is getting...levels of heaven and hell, spirits with free will and a hierarchy of who gets chosen to live in a mother and all that. Sad or evil spirits that lurk on earth who will take the chance to jump into a clone, even an animal clone like Dolly the sheep. This is fascinating. I'm tempted to read Omnaka's book, no doubt it will be very colorfull and something to see.

My wife is 9 weeks pregnant..an uncertain time. if, GOD PLEASE FORBID, she miscarries, it will be because the spirit in the baby didn't like us or something like that?

Edited by Neognosis
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