sandee Posted January 12, 2008 #126 Share Posted January 12, 2008 the soul is the summary of you. clones will have a soul androids will have a soul our children will have a soul that will be where the problem will lie. if we forget that our creations have a soul. they will rise up in rage and hatred for being denied the needs of the soul. serioisly read the story of Frankenstein the only monster in that book is the doctor. I am sorry please forgive me for being ignorant, But was frankenstein fiction? We are God's creation and frankenstein ours, We are perfect because God creted us. Therefore what we create(life) can not perfect no? I don't see man creating anything more perfect than God and should not be trying to play God, Because we are mere human beings and God, Well is God. Always a pleasure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbyte Posted January 12, 2008 #127 Share Posted January 12, 2008 (edited) If cloning is possible I think it's a dangerous path to go down. learning computers is complex crap. Well imagine learning universal physics in order to cover what attribute one may have in a clone and so on. We could totally rise ourselves above nature and never become subject to it again. We would have to calculalate everything out in order to do anything. We would have to make sure that we are able to defend our selfves against nature and so on. Wel would have to take everything into consideration and thats impossible. Leave it to god. Edited January 12, 2008 by Mbyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted January 12, 2008 #128 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I am sorry please forgive me for being ignorant, But was frankenstein fiction? We are God's creation and frankenstein ours, We are perfect because God creted us. Therefore what we create(life) can not perfect no? I don't see man creating anything more perfect than God and should not be trying to play God, Because we are mere human beings and God, Well is God. Always a pleasure Question: If we are perfect, then why does your religion tell us that god had to send christ as a redeemer? And what else, do you think, we should not try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted January 12, 2008 Author #129 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Question: If we are perfect, then why does your religion tell us that god had to send christ as a redeemer? And what else, do you think, we should not try? I think They will try, and have tried, and will continue to try, But I think it is in vein, and doomed to failier. Love Omnaka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted January 12, 2008 #130 Share Posted January 12, 2008 well omnaka, that response was 100% clear as mud.... care to expand upon your cryptic comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted January 12, 2008 Author #131 Share Posted January 12, 2008 well omnaka, that response was 100% clear as mud.... care to expand upon your cryptic comments? You are right , I'm done, Iv'e expanded on this subject enough. Thanks for an easy out. LOve Omnaka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted January 12, 2008 #132 Share Posted January 12, 2008 chicken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandee Posted January 12, 2008 #133 Share Posted January 12, 2008 (edited) If cloning is possible I think it's a dangerous path to go down. learning computers is complex crap. Well imagine learning universal physics in order to cover what attribute one may have in a clone and so on. We could totally rise ourselves above nature and never become subject to it again. We would have to calculalate everything out in order to do anything. We would have to make sure that we are able to defend our selfves against nature and so on. Wel would have to take everything into consideration and thats impossible. Leave it to god. Excelent point, I could have never said it any better, Thank You Question: If we are perfect, then why does your religion tell us that god had to send christ as a redeemer? . O I am not sure how to answer your question , But I will try. God sent Jesus because yes we are sinner and Jesus died for our sins. Our pastor said " God sent Jesus to inform us of God's new law, The new testament. Jesus did fullfill that and gave his life so that we would have everlasting life. We are not perfect as we do sin God says we are all sinners that through Jesus Christ we can be redeemedur form , our body , Our mind(brain) , We are very complex and well made. I was trying to say we are amazing our bodies and brains are still not really understood fully and God created that, Us and we can not recreate something that perfect, Would you agree on that? imagine man trying to create something they have yet to fully understand. No, Whats the old saying "If its not broken Don't fix it". Now I know there are people who are ill but I a not adressing that here, I am saying human beings are perfect the way God intended and we can never replace perfection, Always a pleasure Edited January 12, 2008 by sandee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbyte Posted January 12, 2008 #134 Share Posted January 12, 2008 (edited) Question: If we are perfect, then why does your religion tell us that god had to send christ as a redeemer? And what else, do you think, we should not try? There is no such thing as perfect or imperfect. There is physicality and experience, as far as I know. Edited January 12, 2008 by Mbyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted January 12, 2008 Author #135 Share Posted January 12, 2008 chicken! Bawk Bawk! If you read back Ive probably answered A hundred posts in a couple Hrs My brain hurts, I know it's killin you. Where were you before I Got tired?Maybe I'll take it back up tomorro, I'm workin nights now Love Omnak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted January 12, 2008 #136 Share Posted January 12, 2008 "If man were meant to fly, god would have given him wings" Sorry to all you true believers who think cloning is a bad idea, but I must disagree. We have brains that thirst for knowledge. Knowledge, in and of itself is NEVER a bad thing. The ways that the knowledge is applied, determines whether it is good or bad. To say that there are things we should not try to learn, is antithetical to our very nature. We ARE the questing beast, poking our noses and our fingers into the dark unknown places seeking meaning, function, and cause. In a sense, ever since the first man looked up at the stars and said "what are they? what do they do? Who put them there?" we have been searching for answers. And, to me, that is also the start of faith. That first man, looking at the twinkling lights came up with an explanation: god put them there. And that answer was fine and dandy- it fit and there were no loopholes, no unanswered equations. However, in mans quest for learning, we came to a point where that answer no longer fit. Evidence from other areas made the answer unsatisfactory. And that was the birth of religion: an attempt to formulize and codify what god is and what god does. And to this day, there are people who cling to the "god did it" answwer. For the life of me, I cannot fathom why, although as long as it brings them comfort and peace, then it is a good thing. for them. Signing off. Good luck, good life, good journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandee Posted January 12, 2008 #137 Share Posted January 12, 2008 "If man were meant to fly, god would have given him wings" Sorry to all you true believers who think cloning is a bad idea, but I must disagree. We have brains that thirst for knowledge. Knowledge, in and of itself is NEVER a bad thing. The ways that the knowledge is applied, determines whether it is good or bad. To say that there are things we should not try to learn, is antithetical to our very nature. We ARE the questing beast, poking our noses and our fingers into the dark unknown places seeking meaning, function, and cause. In a sense, ever since the first man looked up at the stars and said "what are they? what do they do? Who put them there?" we have been searching for answers. And, to me, that is also the start of faith. That first man, looking at the twinkling lights came up with an explanation: god put them there. And that answer was fine and dandy- it fit and there were no loopholes, no unanswered equations. However, in mans quest for learning, we came to a point where that answer no longer fit. Evidence from other areas made the answer unsatisfactory. And that was the birth of religion: an attempt to formulize and codify what god is and what god does. And to this day, there are people who cling to the "god did it" answwer. For the life of me, I cannot fathom why, although as long as it brings them comfort and peace, then it is a good thing. for them. Signing off. Good luck, good life, good journey. One man did not create God, God did however create one man, Adam. God has been evident to man for thousands of years and man will continue to deny him the due credit he deserves all because God does not say okay skeptics here I am do what you will with it. Although you can see God in everything around thats not enough, Maybe God says well If thats not good enough for you then I can do no more to prove it to you. As you say Jmpd, Whatever brings you comfort and peace, Always a pleasure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporkling Posted January 12, 2008 #138 Share Posted January 12, 2008 but then who supports cloning and who does not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkmoonlady Posted January 12, 2008 #139 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I have no problem with cloning given it falls under the same scrutiny as other kinds of medical procedures ethics boards oversee. What I see as an issue is the lack of understanding by the general public about the technology. I've actually heard someone say they should clone a mummy but the "clone wouldn't understand modern technology". I'm not kidding. That is the level of understanding of many people when it comes to cloning. If in the future we use cloning I hope by then that there is a better understanding, that people educate themselves more about it. Just like stem cell research funding which has fallen victim to people not understanding how it works and why it is so important, it is not fully utilized. To the OP it would be no different than a genetic twin. Are twins single souled? That is unanswerable in that no one can detect a "soul". So far twins do just fine and aren't having spiritual issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryceleste2 Posted January 12, 2008 #140 Share Posted January 12, 2008 God bever said that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbyte Posted January 12, 2008 #141 Share Posted January 12, 2008 (edited) knowledge means nothing without god. knowledge is a mental tool so we can thrive in a physical universe. To try and control nature through manipulation of genetics of anything is a bad mistake. Edited January 12, 2008 by Mbyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunDogDayze Posted January 12, 2008 #142 Share Posted January 12, 2008 THere have been scientific Research done on People who have lost Most of the brain, and still function fine. I cant remember The study, but it is out there. THe spirit operates The Brain too. The Brain without the spirit is nothing, The Spirit with out a Brain is pure consciousness. That is spirit. Love Omnaka Hi Omnaka. Yes people can live without huge portions of the brain, but that is due to another physical attribute of the brain itself, called Neuroplasticity. In a nutshell, this means that when the circuitry of the brain is disrupted, or damaged, the brain will re-wire certain parts to try and recreate as much of the damaged part as possible. It's especially successful in very young patients. The brain is a wonderful, complex, barely understood organ, and I don't think you are giving enough credit to it. Neuroplasticity Wiki's neuroplasticity entry I think maybe, that if the god that you speak to is humorous like you said, maybe he is telling you a joke by saying clones would not have souls. Maybe it was sarcasm, I think you should ask him again, because it just doesn't seem right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandee Posted January 12, 2008 #143 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Hi Omnaka. Yes people can live without huge portions of the brain, but that is due to another physical attribute of the brain itself, called Neuroplasticity. In a nutshell, this means that when the circuitry of the brain is disrupted, or damaged, the brain will re-wire certain parts to try and recreate as much of the damaged part as possible. It's especially successful in very young patients. The brain is a wonderful, complex, barely understood organ, and I don't think you are giving enough credit to it. Neuroplasticity Wiki's neuroplasticity entry I think maybe, that if the god that you speak to is humorous like you said, maybe he is telling you a joke by saying clones would not have souls. Maybe it was sarcasm, I think you should ask him again, because it just doesn't seem right. I was trying to get this very point across, The brain is so complex we don't understand fully its true capababilties so how then can we even think we can recreate it? Cloning someone includes the brain, How are we going to make someting we don't even understand, Always a pleasure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted January 12, 2008 Author #144 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Hi Omnaka. Yes people can live without huge portions of the brain, but that is due to another physical attribute of the brain itself, called Neuroplasticity. In a nutshell, this means that when the circuitry of the brain is disrupted, or damaged, the brain will re-wire certain parts to try and recreate as much of the damaged part as possible. It's especially successful in very young patients. The brain is a wonderful, complex, barely understood organ, and I don't think you are giving enough credit to it. Neuroplasticity Wiki's neuroplasticity entry I think maybe, that if the god that you speak to is humorous like you said, maybe he is telling you a joke by saying clones would not have souls. Maybe it was sarcasm, I think you should ask him again, because it just doesn't seem right. Hi SundogDayze, Father and Mother of all spirit are responsible for putting the spirit in everything, Father told me He would not put a spirit in a Human clone. As Far as the brain is concerned And the missing Brain , I think it is the consciousness taking Over < or spirit, which needs no eyes to see , and No brain to think, How else can one account for surgury Patients who can say verbatim what was said during their operation, and or accounts of Blind people being able to see (Third Eye) Or spirit Eye. Yes Father can be funny, but He answers My questions truthfully, or my enlightenment would be a Joke, It's Not. It is understandable If you do not believe me. Love Omnaka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted January 12, 2008 Author #145 Share Posted January 12, 2008 God bever said that I guess if one only believes that Father talked to those written about in the infancy of the world, and stopped after the Bible was written , Leaving Mankind alone to deal with spiritual matters Then what you say is understandable. God , creator of all spirt, Said that. Love Omnaka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted January 12, 2008 Author #146 Share Posted January 12, 2008 God bever said that I guess if one only believes that Father talked to those written about in the infancy of the world, and stopped after the Bible was written , Leaving Mankind alone to deal with spiritual matters Then what you say is understandable. God , creator of all spirt, Said that. Love Omnaka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delfedd Posted January 13, 2008 #147 Share Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) Why do you keep mentioning "mother?" It's father son and holy ghost. Also. Since the only spiritual contact that you have is with these beings, how do you know they aren't simply demons posing as God? Tricking you without actually saying it? Taking advice from unknown voices is rarely a good thing. Edited January 13, 2008 by Delfedd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Xues Posted January 13, 2008 #148 Share Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) if one thinks the holy ghost could then match the mother. bk2pt there is nothing wrong exploring questionable areas of science. the only reason there is a problem is more how it impacts our definition of ourselves. humans like to think they are special. clones threaten the concept of "one of a kind". genetics is constantly telling us that "we are animals" regardless. messing with nature causes us to question "ethics and evolution". if removed from nature man will not develop naturaly unless we apply unethical measures to replace nature. "to kill one to spare the many" Edited January 13, 2008 by Nik Xues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnaka Posted January 13, 2008 Author #149 Share Posted January 13, 2008 if one thinks the holy ghost could then match the mother. bk2pt there is nothing wrong exploring questionable areas of science. the only reason there is a problem is more how it impacts our definition of ourselves. humans like to think they are special. clones threaten the concept of "one of a kind". genetics is constantly telling us that "we are animals" regardless. messing with nature causes us to question "ethics and evolution". if removed from nature man will not develop naturaly unless we apply unethical measures to replace nature. "to kill one to spare the many" Hmm, Something to think on. Thats quite the brew you got going there. Love Omnaka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSevenFive Posted January 13, 2008 #150 Share Posted January 13, 2008 "Cloning Can Not Succeed"? But cloning already succeeds -- it happens spontaneously already in the form of identical twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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