Banks stop loaning money

[Moon*Ghost]

It took off Kennedys head. After President Kennedy signed Executive Order 11110 ordering the Treasury to print Treasury Notes backed by silver he was murdered. Nope, no conspiracy there you fool.

call me a fool if you must, but I am not the one worrying myself over something completely ridiculous

[Oen Anderson]

call me a fool if you must, but I am not the one worrying myself over something completely ridiculous

OK, I apologize for calling you a fool, perhaps it was a little harsh. Now go back to sleep, the money matrix has you my friend.

[SoCrazes]

Oen, I'm still awaiting your, or Tilley's, answer to the question I asked in an earlier post: If our currency is a debt, then who is the borrower and who is the loaner? Thanks.

[Oen Anderson]

Oen, I'm still awaiting your, or Tilley's, answer to the question I asked in an earlier post: If our currency is a debt, then who is the borrower and who is the loaner? Thanks.

From what I make of it, there is no borrower since you are not borrowing anything, you are only having your credit extended so you can go farther into debt. There is no loaner because nothing is being loaned, the bank is only allowing you to go farther into debt by extending your credit. There is a credit extender,(the bank) and a credit extendee, (you). Tilley says money equals nothing and in this example nothing is loaned and nothing is borrowed, yet there is a promise to repay that nothing with interest, (which is more nothing). Since we use Federal Reserve Notes as our currency, and it is in fact debt currency since it is all borrowed into existence, you start with nothing, extend yourself negatively into debt, then go into more debt to repay that debt. Tilley claims we can never truly make it back to zero, we stay in perpetual debt even if we hold currency because FRN's in and of themselves are negative in value as debt paper. I think this is why he says the money matrix has us. Banks continue to use the terminology of borrowing and lending to continue the illusion there is still money. You made me go back to the book and do some reading so I hope I got this right, and if it seems confusing it is. Most of us have to wake from the coma we have been brainwashed into. Thanks for tasking me with such an excellent question my friend.

[realist]

dear friends ;

if you are watching money -tell me why the controls and laws are ever increaseing -yet the value is plumeting -welcome to the world of electronic inslavement .-what i see the future holding is not good -this national id driverslicence thing scares me .ive seen it at work years ago -to a degree with a comerial drivers licence a corporate accounting-bussiness id card and a computer . the driver for gasoline tanker delevery service had to use this system on every load to get gas out of the refinery -to deliver the load of gas to make money for his company -and his wagde by the hour as a driver .i went on a run or two with him .this is how national id breaks down -as i see it used in the future -pros =it tells you financially who your dealing with and identifys them and your element of risk to loan or not .and helps with tracking for security .of persons items and places and time lines .=cons are bigger -first the driver when he pulled up had to have all things conected correctly -this is good for safty im ok with it so far .second the driver had to slide a comerial licence into computer-scaning device -it read everything a drivers licence can tell about you -your current status and expiration and health card and endorsements -this im ok with too-problems start getting bad when he slides in his company account card- it has a magnetic strip that covers one whole side and half the other

it tells the computer everything -weatgher your late on your payments -if your credit is good -if the vehicles permits are all current -if insurance is up to date and if required equipment upgrades are done for the year .and a whole slew of other things that do not even need to be on there .basically if everthing isnt just so -the computer denies you access to fill up -there fore -no gas to deliver -there fore your company loses jobs and to much of this allows for your own layoffs .so basically they in time will know enough to have a certain amount of control of your life and movements and abilitys -no one will take risks anymore -because purchasers will have it -or they wont to buy things from others -good luck seeing credit getting approved if they can tell you cant pay -by past histories -so the future doesnt allow for risk taking venture capitol for business expansion -it doesnt have any give nor allowence for error -

speaking of errors -ive seen and herd these things happen allready ;

id theft -or id illegal use -ive sen people get arrested for warrants on tickets that they never got because of errors in letters of middle initials -between then and the real crooks .

ive seen what happens when a corporation -pays employees by direct deposit -try figureing out how to pay for late charges or- insufficient funds chargesor large deposit -or turn on

on utiliies after shut off -because the e-money you sent to pay bills with didnt get accredited in time to cover losses out going from your e-mail bank account -why because of a typo-a program error-an unscheduled holiday delay -or a leap year .-or corporate head offices being in another country .

and the pay -time zones are different -what happens -if a small business owner dies or gets a divorce -or gets investigated -accounts are frozen .

-in the future i hope i can still find a country -that is not dependant on power supply-or computers -or has any --i do not hate computers -for comunicating and mail or research -but i cant deal with the fact that there used to sqeeze every last inch out of my wallets finances -on production programs -or the control it gives over my destiny by others .who care about themselves more than my situations .-ive seen twenty year almost retired people -get the walk up -hey your fired -forget about your retirement -its not cost effective for us .ive seen how computers affected my industry -towing -twenty years ago i was paid hourly and 40 percent comission after hours -incentive for extra jobs being done .24/7 -computers came in because the boss lied the ease of looking up invoces and call records .in 1989 i was makeing $650-00 to $800.00 weekly on weekly paychecks -when the business was making $55.00

per job .i did -know almost twenty years latter -the pay schedule got shifted to by- weekly pay everything was turned into stricked hourly -or time in ahalf pay checks .-so know in twenty years -with a computer affecting the job ill be lucky to make $620.00 every two weeks and the costs of the job .that

the company makes per call/job that i do is $170.00 per job . no future benifits either or retirement package --by the way the job asks for more now for less money -now you have to pass background checks -dmv printouts to ten years-physicals -and have to have certifications .-so you can have computers -all i see is greed -crunching numbers and making life miserable for the masses .wich is going to get tougher and tougher down the road -because the computers can only disect a pie graph so many ways -and word to the wise -there aint know more pies -and they only have a certain amout of pies to go around . ----my current hobby is how the indians and pioneers and amish survived without modern economys-i studdy people of the street as a hobby incase i become one down the road .

why worry about the economy when you can make your own when this one fails .

wich i believe it will because of the high rated gold standard -the stocks crashing and the time of year -the war debt -the national debt -the trade deficit

and the prices going up faster than minumum wage -the housing market crash -the high fuel prices .the cost of living and food going up and our salaries not matching it .global warming screwing up crops by fllods -ice storms -drought-early and late frosts -and the bee hive issues and humiity affecting blight crop disease .-theres a whole lot of reasons where gonna be in deep trouble -soon -my indicators are also china complaining about the us cutting spending on there exports -and our government throwing money at a economic problem that hasnt been fixed yet -it like flushing -money down the drain -.

so im seriously studying tribal or survival habbits like farming and hunting down the road .-if we pull out of this with a 9 trillion dollar debt or a 6 trillon dollar deficit -or without makeing inflation as bad as wwii poland -or argentina -i would be supprised-they would have to print more money to generate more taxes to keep the economy and government going -but -news -eventually it makes money worthless .-only way out of debt is war -but its so devatating -people for get who owed them or what they owed others -and future warefare is apocolptic in devestation -tecnology if handled on a large scale -see you in the stone age einstien. hey can i borrow a few bucks -spare a dime mister ................................................................................

forgive my rants im a raving lunatic -i get a check and take mental meds -you need help if i made sense today .......................................................bye

[Siara]

The way America keeps going deeper and deeper into debt while the stock market's still doing fine is something I don't understand. In managing your personal household finances, if you keep spending more than you're taking in you eventually reach a point when you're broke. Doesn't that EVER happen to countries? Isn't there some point when the sh** hits the fan? If so, what is that point?

[Oen Anderson]

dear friends ;

if you are watching money -tell me why the controls and laws are ever increaseing -yet the value is plumeting -welcome to the world of electronic inslavement .-what i see the future holding is not good -this national id driverslicence thing scares me .ive seen it at work years ago -to a degree with a comerial drivers licence a corporate accounting-bussiness id card and a computer . the driver for gasoline tanker delevery service had to use this system on every load to get gas out of the refinery -to deliver the load of gas to make money for his company -and his wagde by the hour as a driver .i went on a run or two with him .this is how national id breaks down -as i see it used in the future -pros =it tells you financially who your dealing with and identifys them and your element of risk to loan or not .and helps with tracking for security .of persons items and places and time lines .=cons are bigger -first the driver when he pulled up had to have all things conected correctly -this is good for safty im ok with it so far .second the driver had to slide a comerial licence into computer-scaning device -it read everything a drivers licence can tell about you -your current status and expiration and health card and endorsements -this im ok with too-problems start getting bad when he slides in his company account card- it has a magnetic strip that covers one whole side and half the other

it tells the computer everything -weatgher your late on your payments -if your credit is good -if the vehicles permits are all current -if insurance is up to date and if required equipment upgrades are done for the year .and a whole slew of other things that do not even need to be on there .basically if everthing isnt just so -the computer denies you access to fill up -there fore -no gas to deliver -there fore your company loses jobs and to much of this allows for your own layoffs .so basically they in time will know enough to have a certain amount of control of your life and movements and abilitys -no one will take risks anymore -because purchasers will have it -or they wont to buy things from others -good luck seeing credit getting approved if they can tell you cant pay -by past histories -so the future doesnt allow for risk taking venture capitol for business expansion -it doesnt have any give nor allowence for error -

speaking of errors -ive seen and herd these things happen allready ;

id theft -or id illegal use -ive sen people get arrested for warrants on tickets that they never got because of errors in letters of middle initials -between then and the real crooks .

ive seen what happens when a corporation -pays employees by direct deposit -try figureing out how to pay for late charges or- insufficient funds chargesor large deposit -or turn on

on utiliies after shut off -because the e-money you sent to pay bills with didnt get accredited in time to cover losses out going from your e-mail bank account -why because of a typo-a program error-an unscheduled holiday delay -or a leap year .-or corporate head offices being in another country .

and the pay -time zones are different -what happens -if a small business owner dies or gets a divorce -or gets investigated -accounts are frozen .

-in the future i hope i can still find a country -that is not dependant on power supply-or computers -or has any --i do not hate computers -for comunicating and mail or research -but i cant deal with the fact that there used to sqeeze every last inch out of my wallets finances -on production programs -or the control it gives over my destiny by others .who care about themselves more than my situations .-ive seen twenty year almost retired people -get the walk up -hey your fired -forget about your retirement -its not cost effective for us .ive seen how computers affected my industry -towing -twenty years ago i was paid hourly and 40 percent comission after hours -incentive for extra jobs being done .24/7 -computers came in because the boss lied the ease of looking up invoces and call records .in 1989 i was makeing $650-00 to $800.00 weekly on weekly paychecks -when the business was making $55.00

per job .i did -know almost twenty years latter -the pay schedule got shifted to by- weekly pay everything was turned into stricked hourly -or time in ahalf pay checks .-so know in twenty years -with a computer affecting the job ill be lucky to make $620.00 every two weeks and the costs of the job .that

the company makes per call/job that i do is $170.00 per job . no future benifits either or retirement package --by the way the job asks for more now for less money -now you have to pass background checks -dmv printouts to ten years-physicals -and have to have certifications .-so you can have computers -all i see is greed -crunching numbers and making life miserable for the masses .wich is going to get tougher and tougher down the road -because the computers can only disect a pie graph so many ways -and word to the wise -there aint know more pies -and they only have a certain amout of pies to go around . ----my current hobby is how the indians and pioneers and amish survived without modern economys-i studdy people of the street as a hobby incase i become one down the road .

why worry about the economy when you can make your own when this one fails .

wich i believe it will because of the high rated gold standard -the stocks crashing and the time of year -the war debt -the national debt -the trade deficit

and the prices going up faster than minumum wage -the housing market crash -the high fuel prices .the cost of living and food going up and our salaries not matching it .global warming screwing up crops by fllods -ice storms -drought-early and late frosts -and the bee hive issues and humiity affecting blight crop disease .-theres a whole lot of reasons where gonna be in deep trouble -soon -my indicators are also china complaining about the us cutting spending on there exports -and our government throwing money at a economic problem that hasnt been fixed yet -it like flushing -money down the drain -.

so im seriously studying tribal or survival habbits like farming and hunting down the road .-if we pull out of this with a 9 trillion dollar debt or a 6 trillon dollar deficit -or without makeing inflation as bad as wwii poland -or argentina -i would be supprised-they would have to print more money to generate more taxes to keep the economy and government going -but -news -eventually it makes money worthless .-only way out of debt is war -but its so devatating -people for get who owed them or what they owed others -and future warefare is apocolptic in devestation -tecnology if handled on a large scale -see you in the stone age einstien. hey can i borrow a few bucks -spare a dime mister ................................................................................

forgive my rants im a raving lunatic -i get a check and take mental meds -you need help if i made sense today .......................................................bye

We all need help brother. You're more awake than the masses.

[Oen Anderson]

The way America keeps going deeper and deeper into debt while the stock market's still doing fine is something I don't understand. In managing your personal household finances, if you keep spending more than you're taking in you eventually reach a point when you're broke. Doesn't that EVER happen to countries? Isn't there some point when the sh** hits the fan? If so, what is that point?

It happened with the stock market crash of 1929 and when Roosevelt stole the gold in 1933. Tilley said in his book, "The Money Matrix of the New World Order", that the sh** hits the fan again around December 21, 2012!

[lunartwin]

I live in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and have worked for four years in a grocery store. I live in a small college town (Michigan Tech) and there were only four groceries locally by two families-two stores per family. When the store I work for came in, they weren't corporate, but they were bigger and privately owned by a family out of Wisconsin. They had a larger selection, a larger list of vendors, and more stores altogether than the family owned local businesses, which resulted in bulk-buying and lower retail prices. It wasn't long before two of the four smaller groceries shut down completely and the remaining two struggled to meet their payroll. For fifteen years, the store I work for reigned number one in sales and there was no competition in sight for them. Now imagine their dismay when our Walmart became a Super Center with a full grocery and they were faced with the same problem the smaller groceries faced at their arrival. I've listened to them p*** and moan about Walmart and how the corporate powers are evil, while at the same time, they're now beginning to adopt a lot of policies reminiscent of corporate ones in a desperate effort to keep up. The appearance of Walmart and the raise in minimum wage wreaked havoc with this store and now they employ half the number they once did while the wage I struggled to get to for four years is now only a dollar more an hour than a common bagboy on their first day. Of course, I was not given any raise when minimum wage went up and very few were.

I quit last week and took a job with the competition-one of the locally owned stores that has been struggling for fifteen years in the wake of the store I just quit.

But I digress. My little story is just an example of the economy in the town I live in. Michigan has one of the worst economies in the country and there doesn't seem to be a bright side in sight. When Granholm began to steadily increase minimum wage on the assumption that it would lower our poverty level, all she did was hurt those of us who had finally managed to climb above that level. Now I find myself right back where I was a few years ago as inflation continues and payroll decreases. We've been in our own form of depression for years and I can't help but wonder how long it is before the entire country is doing no better than we are. Ultimately, I believe that we will find ourselves in another Great Depression sooner than we think.

It happened with the stock market crash of 1929 and when Roosevelt stole the gold in 1933. Tilley said in his book, "The Money Matrix of the New World Order", that the sh** hits the fan again around December 21, 2012!

So I've said I agree, but I'm wondering what the winter solstice of 2012 has to do with it? I'm not saying I don't believe you and I haven't read the book either, but I have heard a myriad of things that are supposed to happen in 2012-one of those being the bankruptcy of the U.S. in an attempt to keep up with all the destruction and disaster that 2012 will bring. Is that what you refer to? Just wondering.

Edited March 25, 2008 by lunartwin

[BlueZone]

Seems to me that someone is just trying to start a conspiracy theory that isn't quite taking off.

I disagree. The system was broken. It allowed people to hopelessly over extend themselves financially. Now these people are in bad shape. It's hard to know how to understand the issue because there are two types of people who abused the system.

1) There are nice people who honestly thought (for instance), "I'll be able to pay the loan back when I finish school and am qualified for a better job." They didn't get the job and now they're up sh**'s creek without a paddle. OK they were overly optimistic. Maybe a bit irresponsible. But well intended.

2) Then there were a lot of other people who thought 'I want that. What the hell. If I can't pay for it I'll just declare bankruptcy later on." I don't have a lot of sympathy for the people in group 2 and as far as I'm concerned, if they end up getting thrown out in the street it's fine with me. The problem is that it's hard to separate the group 1 people from the group 2 people. The idea that part of my money is going to bail out the group two people is irritating, to say the least.

[Oen Anderson]

I live in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and have worked for four years in a grocery store. I live in a small college town (Michigan Tech) and there were only four groceries locally by two families-two stores per family. When the store I work for came in, they weren't corporate, but they were bigger and privately owned by a family out of Wisconsin. They had a larger selection, a larger list of vendors, and more stores altogether than the family owned local businesses, which resulted in bulk-buying and lower retail prices. It wasn't long before two of the four smaller groceries shut down completely and the remaining two struggled to meet their payroll. For fifteen years, the store I work for reigned number one in sales and there was no competition in sight for them. Now imagine their dismay when our Walmart became a Super Center with a full grocery and they were faced with the same problem the smaller groceries faced at their arrival. I've listened to them p*** and moan about Walmart and how the corporate powers are evil, while at the same time, they're now beginning to adopt a lot of policies reminiscent of corporate ones in a desperate effort to keep up. The appearance of Walmart and the raise in minimum wage wreaked havoc with this store and now they employ half the number they once did while the wage I struggled to get to for four years is now only a dollar more an hour than a common bagboy on their first day. Of course, I was not given any raise when minimum wage went up and very few were.

I quit last week and took a job with the competition-one of the locally owned stores that has been struggling for fifteen years in the wake of the store I just quit.

But I digress. My little story is just an example of the economy in the town I live in. Michigan has one of the worst economies in the country and there doesn't seem to be a bright side in sight. When Granholm began to steadily increase minimum wage on the assumption that it would lower our poverty level, all she did was hurt those of us who had finally managed to climb above that level. Now I find myself right back where I was a few years ago as inflation continues and payroll decreases. We've been in our own form of depression for years and I can't help but wonder how long it is before the entire country is doing no better than we are. Ultimately, I believe that we will find ourselves in another Great Depression sooner than we think.

So I've said I agree, but I'm wondering what the winter solstice of 2012 has to do with it? I'm not saying I don't believe you and I haven't read the book either, but I have heard a myriad of things that are supposed to happen in 2012-one of those being the bankruptcy of the U.S. in an attempt to keep up with all the destruction and disaster that 2012 will bring. Is that what you refer to? Just wondering.

Tilley points out in his book that the Federal Reserve, which is a privately run bank, was started on December 23, 1913. They are paid in Gold. That is our gold that the government confiscated in 1933. At a fee of 1% a year it would take one hundred years to use it all up. Then what are you going to pay the Federal Reserve? The Mayan calender end all date is 12-21-2012. Tilley states throughout his book that he does not believe in coincidences. That is why he "thinks or believes" that is the date of the final crash.

[Oen Anderson]

It looks like Tilley was right, the system is imploding and he called it way back in January. He must be a prophet on no profit!