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mudpit

How Christians Ended Slavery

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mudpit

How Christians Ended Slavery

By Dinesh D'Souza

Monday, January 14, 2008

Isn't it remarkable that atheists, who did virtually nothing to oppose slavery, condemn Christians, who are the ones who abolished it?

Consider atheist Sam Harris, who blames Christianity for supporting slavery. Harris is right that slavery existed among the Old Testament Jews, and Paul even instructs slaves to obey their masters. During the civil war both sides quoted the Bible. We know all this. (Yawn, yawn.)

The anti-slavery movements led by Wilberforce in England and abolitionists in America were dominated by Christians. These believers reasoned that since we are all created equal in the eyes of God, no one has the right to rule another without consent. This is the moral basis not only of anti-slavery but also of democracy.

In the end the fact remains that the only movements that opposed slavery in principle were mobilized in the West, and they were overwhelmingly led and populated by Christians. Sadly the West had to use force to stop slavery in other cultures, such as the Muslim slave trade off the coast of Africa. In some quarters the campaign to eradicate slavery still goes on.

So who killed slavery? The Christians did, while everyone else generally stood by and watched.

http://townhall.com/columnists/DineshDSouz...s_ended_slavery

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Neognosis
So who killed slavery? The Christians did, while everyone else generally stood by and watched.

I don't really think there were many "out" athiests in the US durring the civil war period to oppose slavery with any significant voice.

But your attempt to malign Athiests is duly noted, thank you.

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momentarylapseofreason
I don't really think there were many "out" athiests in the US durring the civil war period to oppose slavery with any significant voice.

But your attempt to malign Athiests is duly noted, thank you.

I know this post made me chuckle....... :wacko:

p.s. and if you had atheistic thoughts you didn't dare admit it

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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Neognosis

I hear that homosexuals also were in favor of slavery....I mean, look! You don't see any gay groups in the 1800's protesting slavery, do you?

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Bluefinger
How Christians Ended Slavery

By Dinesh D'Souza

Monday, January 14, 2008

Isn't it remarkable that atheists, who did virtually nothing to oppose slavery, condemn Christians, who are the ones who abolished it?

Consider atheist Sam Harris, who blames Christianity for supporting slavery. Harris is right that slavery existed among the Old Testament Jews, and Paul even instructs slaves to obey their masters. During the civil war both sides quoted the Bible. We know all this. (Yawn, yawn.)

The anti-slavery movements led by Wilberforce in England and abolitionists in America were dominated by Christians. These believers reasoned that since we are all created equal in the eyes of God, no one has the right to rule another without consent. This is the moral basis not only of anti-slavery but also of democracy.

In the end the fact remains that the only movements that opposed slavery in principle were mobilized in the West, and they were overwhelmingly led and populated by Christians. Sadly the West had to use force to stop slavery in other cultures, such as the Muslim slave trade off the coast of Africa. In some quarters the campaign to eradicate slavery still goes on.

So who killed slavery? The Christians did, while everyone else generally stood by and watched.

http://townhall.com/columnists/DineshDSouz...s_ended_slavery

Yes, and being a Christian, I agree. Also keep in mind that most Western politicians were somehow affiliated to Christianity as well as the majority of the Western population. That fact still remains today. If Christianity were a minority thing, it would be more noteworthy. But yes, Christians did use their religious influence to end slavery in the West.

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Raptor
In the end the fact remains that the only movements that opposed slavery in principle were mobilized in the West, and they were overwhelmingly led and populated by Christians.

Maybe, maybe, that's because the West itself was overwhelmingly led and populated by Christians?

Edited by Raptor

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momentarylapseofreason

One can't give Christians credit for ending modern slavery when they were the ones who perpetuated it in the first place. Slavery was mostly eradicated from Western civilization between the fourth and the tenth century". Well then, shouldn't we blame the Christian settlers of the Americas for introducing the modern era of slavery, since it was they who brought Africans in chains ?

Founding Father Thomas Paine, who was a deist ( ?) and also called an atheist by many of his time, abhored slavery and spoke out for abolition long before any Christian in America did.

I'm sure you know the price Thomas Paine paid for speaking his mind about religion, Christianity, the bible, and slavery. One of his main reasons for despising the bible was because of the numerous passages sanctioning slavery. He was hated by most of the elitist american Christians and almost completely shunned by them because of his views.

Christians killed slavery in America ? I guess so > and it only took them nearly 300 years to finally realize that it was WRONG. Why did it take them so long ? Because they used biblical scripture that endorses slavery as moral sanctioning of an institution that allowed many of them to make themselves wealthy off the backs of slave labor. You are quite aware that there were no atheist organizations and very few individuals who would dare let it be known that they did not believe in the Christian god. Doing so at the time put one at risk of being arrested, charged, tried, and punished for heresy. So, how ridiculous of you to suggest that any atheists wielded any kind of power or influence to abolish slavery or could even attempt to do so.

This is a good reply from that site mudpit posted> btw> I condensed it

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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capeo

Mudpit, do you ever have your own ideas or is every one of your posts somebody else's article from an ultra-conservative source. Are you a bot or something?

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norwood1026
One can't give Christians credit for ending modern slavery when they were the ones who perpetuated it in the first place. Slavery was mostly eradicated from Western civilization between the fourth and the tenth century". Well then, shouldn't we blame the Christian settlers of the Americas for introducing the modern era of slavery, since it was they who brought Africans in chains ?

Founding Father Thomas Paine, who was a deist ( ?) and also called an atheist by many of his time, abhored slavery and spoke out for abolition long before any Christian in America did.

I'm sure you know the price Thomas Paine paid for speaking his mind about religion, Christianity, the bible, and slavery. One of his main reasons for despising the bible was because of the numerous passages sanctioning slavery. He was hated by most of the elitist american Christians and almost completely shunned by them because of his views.

Christians killed slavery in America ? I guess so > and it only took them nearly 300 years to finally realize that it was WRONG. Why did it take them so long ? Because they used biblical scripture that endorses slavery as moral sanctioning of an institution that allowed many of them to make themselves wealthy off the backs of slave labor. You are quite aware that there were no atheist organizations and very few individuals who would dare let it be known that they did not believe in the Christian god. Doing so at the time put one at risk of being arrested, charged, tried, and punished for heresy. So, how ridiculous of you to suggest that any atheists wielded any kind of power or influence to abolish slavery or could even attempt to do so.

Thank you!

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SunDogDayze

Mudpit, what was your reason for posting this? Your opinion isn't stated, and in the context of this thread, it sounds a little like flame-baiting to me.

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momentarylapseofreason

The KKK considered themselves christians and used the bible to perpetuate their racist BS.

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Neognosis

cinematographers also did not stop slavery

Neither did electricians

Or cardiologists

Even the Screen Actors Guild did nothing!

MOST shocking, though, is the fact that NOT ONE MEMBER of the World Wide Web Consortium lifted so much as a finger to stop slavery in the 1800's!

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evancj
How Christians Ended Slavery

By Dinesh D'Souza

Monday, January 14, 2008

Isn't it remarkable that atheists, who did virtually nothing to oppose slavery, condemn Christians, who are the ones who abolished it?

Consider atheist Sam Harris, who blames Christianity for supporting slavery. Harris is right that slavery existed among the Old Testament Jews, and Paul even instructs slaves to obey their masters. During the civil war both sides quoted the Bible. We know all this. (Yawn, yawn.)

The anti-slavery movements led by Wilberforce in England and abolitionists in America were dominated by Christians. These believers reasoned that since we are all created equal in the eyes of God, no one has the right to rule another without consent. This is the moral basis not only of anti-slavery but also of democracy.

In the end the fact remains that the only movements that opposed slavery in principle were mobilized in the West, and they were overwhelmingly led and populated by Christians. Sadly the West had to use force to stop slavery in other cultures, such as the Muslim slave trade off the coast of Africa. In some quarters the campaign to eradicate slavery still goes on.

So who killed slavery? The Christians did, while everyone else generally stood by and watched.

http://townhall.com/columnists/DineshDSouz...s_ended_slavery

You know your wrong about this.

As if christians were not responsible for slavery in the US in the first place.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it mud dude.

http://www.secularplanet.org/2007/02/ftu-a...t-atheists.html

“Joseph Loconte's Feb. 23 Point of View column titled "Religious faith ended slavery" is an example of turning history on its head.

Loconte, a senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, extols the leadership of people with "deep Christian convictions" in ending slavery. But, he conveniently forgets that many other Christians used biblical Scriptures to justify slavery. Indeed the Bible - both the Old Testament and New Testament - is rife with language that clearly and unequivocally states that slavery was a positive thing.

Loconte says that it was Christians, not atheists, who led the effort against the slave trade. Perhaps he forgets that slavery was abolished in France in 1791, not by the church, but by the atheistic founders of the revolution.In the United States, the early critics of slavery - Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and John Quincy Adams - were all either atheists or deists. Later, the abolitionist cause was taken up by Ralph Waldo Emerson, a Unitarian minister turned atheist; William Lloyd Garrison, an atheist; and Robert Ingersoll, the "Great Agnostic." Indeed, the "Great Emancipator" himself, Abraham Lincoln, never acknowledged being a Christian and was (at the very least) thought to be a freethinker in matters of religion. In England, atheists Jeremy Bentham and John Stuart Mill were leading abolitionists.

Atheists and freethinkers of all stripes worked closely with progressive Christians to abolish slavery and to fully extend voting and civil rights to African-Americans. To suggest otherwise is an affront to the rich history of free thought in America.

Like Loconte, I look forward to seeing Amazing Grace, a new biographical film about William Wilberforce, a Christian activist and member of the British Parliament. Indeed, he was a great leader in the worldwide anti-slavery movement.

I realize there is a nonliteral way to read Scripture that provided people like Wilberforce a way to attack slavery from their religious perspective. But, let's be fair. It does not take reading Scripture to know that human bondage was not right. That just took common sense and a commitment to human rights, something that most of us freethinkers have in abundance.”

And here’s another for you to chew on. Yes it may be true that christians led the abolitionist movment, but that only fitting as they also owned slaves.

A lot of historians will be surprised to read the Point of View column titled "Religious faith ended slavery."

Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian and Episcopalian churches owned slaves; Baptist churches owned the most. Christians obeyed the 10th commandment that forbids coveting a neighbor's "manservant" and "maidservant" (slaves). In the Civil War, some 250,000 Southern men died defending states' rights and slavery.

Atheists could not lead the effort to end slavery because they had no political power. Just as today, they have little chance to be elected to public office. Christians have accepted slavery for centuries. William Wilberforce did, indeed, end slavery in Great Britain by the end of his life. He overcame the policies of an empire that relied on slaves.

But, he also voted in favor of the corn laws, which taxed corn. Corn was the basic food of poor people in England. He wanted their main food taxed.

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SunDogDayze
cinematographers also did not stop slavery

Neither did electricians

Or cardiologists

Even the Screen Actors Guild did nothing!

MOST shocking, though, is the fact that NOT ONE MEMBER of the World Wide Web Consortium lifted so much as a finger to stop slavery in the 1800's!

Amazingly enough, cinematographers didn't actively condone slavery either. Nor did electricians, or cardiologists, or members of SAG.

I bet you didn't know that the World Wide Web Consortium had nothing to do with starting slavery either!!!

Also, none of these organizations quoted material from their employee handbooks or membership certificate as proof that slavery was Godly. :)

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MissMelsWell

Never mind that the most vocal and active abolutionists were Quakers. Quakers are about the MOST liberal Christians of the lot. It was always wrong for Quakers to own slaves and their sense of social equality caused them to start the Underground Railroad.

Ya know mudpit that tons of conservative Christians don't even consider Friends to be christians?

Pffft... get your history straightened out.

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Neognosis
I bet you didn't know that the World Wide Web Consortium had nothing to do with starting slavery either!!!

It doesn't matter! They didn't try to stop it like the good Christians did!

I was under the impression that the vast majority of the south, fighting to keep the right to self-determine if slavery was legal, was christian too. I must have been mistaken. Did all the Athiests live in the South? They MUST have if christianity was fighting to end slavery, but the south wanted to keep slavery.

This Logic Are Flawless.

Edited by Neognosis

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SunDogDayze
It doesn't matter! They didn't try to stop it like the good Christians did!

I was under the impression that the vast majority of the south, fighting to keep the right to self-determine if slavery was legal, was christian too. I must have been mistaken. Did all the Athiests live in the South? They MUST have if christianity was fighting to end slavery, but the south wanted to keep slavery.

This Logic Are Flawless.

Pretty much my sentiments exactly.

Damn atheists quoting their...whatever...to condone slavery. Oh, wait....

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eqgumby

Foolishness.

Sure, slavery was abolished by Christians, so what.

Lets face it, trying to assign blame or credit for ending it to any one group or like minded group of people, is a fools mission.

PEOPLE started slavery before the bible.

PEOPLE ended slavery in spite of the bible, or any other religious text.

HUMANITY is the answer. As usual.

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MissMelsWell

Thank you Eggy... a voice of reason.

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momentarylapseofreason

Well I'm glad that the Quakers actually have morals and empathy

Of course slavery was around since the beginning .

The fact is the bible condones slavery. There is no tap dancing around it.

It's another part of the bible alot of Christians conveniently ignore/hide like dirty underwear.

People need to get their facts straight, and quit pretending their religion is sqeaky clean.

No one can ever learn or better themselves by hiding behind distortion and lies.

While i agree it's in the past> we should forgive but never forget.

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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SunDogDayze
Foolishness.

Sure, slavery was abolished by Christians, so what.

Lets face it, trying to assign blame or credit for ending it to any one group or like minded group of people, is a fools mission.

PEOPLE started slavery before the bible.

PEOPLE ended slavery in spite of the bible, or any other religious text.

HUMANITY is the answer. As usual.

Yes.

And PEOPLE still continue to blame OTHER PEOPLE for things PEOPLE in general did, and still do.

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eqgumby
Thank you Eggy... a voice of reason.

Yet, I am still on so many "ignore" lists...

Life is like that I suppose! Thanks though! :tu:

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Raptor
Yet, I am still on so many "ignore" lists...

That's why you are, bro. Some people just can't handle being told the truth.

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brave_new_world
Ya know mudpit that tons of conservative Christians don't even consider Friends to be christians?

I'll say! I went a Christian book shop in Bangor that was full of books and when I asked if they had anything on quakerism all they could do was offer to order something in! I know very little about american history and its politics. Im sure christians as well as non-christians spoke out against slavery. I am sure though that Quaker John Woolman played quite a part in helping abolish slavery.

In 1754 Woolman wrote Some Considerations on the Keeping of Negroes. He refused to draw up wills transferring slaves. Working on a nonconfrontational, personal level, he individually convinced many Quaker slaveholders to free their slaves. He attempted personally to avoid using the products of slavery; for example, he wore undyed clothing because slaves were used in the making of dyes, and he wore wool boxers (because cotton was picked by slaves). Whenever he received hospitality from a slaveholder, he insisted on paying the slaves for their work in attending him.

In his lifetime, Woolman did not succeed in eradicating slavery even within the Society of Friends in colonial America; however, his personal efforts changed Quaker viewpoints. In 1790 the Society of Friends petitioned the United States Congress for the abolition of slavery. The fair treatment of people of all races is now part of the Friends Testimony of Equality.

Woolman also lived out the Friends Peace Testimony by protesting the French and Indian War. He went so far as to refuse paying taxes to support the war.[1]

Woolman showed unusual insight for the time, in that he lived and worked among the Indians, recognising that the Spirit moved among them also. He showed concern for the poor, for animals, and for the environment and is a precursor of several modern campaigns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Woolman

Also when it came to the treament of the native american indians, Voltaire says this about one of the leading Quakers:

It was the only treaty made by the settlers with the Indians that was never sworn to, and the only one that was never broken. ~ Voltaire, contrasting Penn's treaty with the Delaware (Leni Lenape) Indians, with most others that had been made in the colonization of America.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/William_Penn

People dont realize and liberal and radically different Quakerism is compared to other christian sects. Quakerism I have found is found the refuge for ex-atholics and other ex-protestant groups. We even have Buddhist quakers come to our meetings! Also we read in some quaker newsletter that there are atheist quakers! How one can be an atheist quaker I dont know but if they are to be tolerated then it doesnt surprise me that the quakers are the ones to do it, lol. :lol:

Edited by brave_new_world

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Grandpa Greenman
[edit] Christian advocacy of slavery

Throughout history, passages in the Old Testament of the Bible have been used as justification of the keeping of slaves, and for guidance in how it should be done.

Therefore, when abolition was proposed, many Christians spoke vociferously against it, citing the Bible's apparent acceptance of slavery as 'proof' that it was part of the normal condition.

In both Europe and the United States, many Christians went further, and argued that slavery was actually justified by the words and doctrines of the Bible.

"[slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President, Confederate States of America

"Every hope of the existence of church and state, and of civilization itself, hangs upon our arduous effort to defeat the doctrine of Negro suffrage." Robert Dabney, a prominent 19th century Southern Presbyterian pastor

And some members of fringe Christian groups like the Christian Reconstructionists, the Christian Identity movement, and the Ku Klux Klan (an organization dedicated to the "empowerment of the white race"), still argue that slavery is justified by Christian doctrine today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Slavery

Once you put something like slavery is ok in a book supposedly written by God people are going to latch on to it. Maybe Christians should update the Bible.

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