John Chang Debunked

[SteveLove]

To Eric Raven, Kevin, etc, asking for tests and experiments - I already SAID that I WOULD be more than happy to take part of an experiment here in this very forums to hopefully show that there are something to these "claims" of spiritual and psychic powers.

And, if you have read the posts where I mention this, such as in the Remote viewing experiments thread (sorry can't remember name right now without checking) I already said that I WILL participate in such tests and experiments, as soon I have the time to do so - which will at least take a couple of weeks, as already mentioned.

For this type of test, that can be done here through this forum, I need the time to prepare and re-train my remote viewing abilities and I got many other things I'm occupied with in my daily life than sitting here typing in a forum all day long, unfortunately I don't have that privilege like some of you seem to do who are posting almos every minute instead of being out doing something sensible such as work or studies. I guess you are lucky to have such time on your hands that you can spend all day sitting here criticizing and complaining in front of your computers instead of doing something useful.

I've offered myself to take part of such tests and experiments here, even completely "blind" tests regarding remote viewing where I will know nothing about the target or the person deciding the target at all, so there will be no chance of "cheating" or wild guesses.

When I get the time, if I do so, I might participate in other tests as well, such as dowsing, and tarot reading, and perhaps even astral projection experiments.

But, unlike many others here, I'm a busy person with lots of work and things to do in my daily work, so the time I have to do such things are limited to specific periods now and then, thus why I'm frequently away for months without being active in here.

I actually make my living of traveling the world and researching various mysteries, both ancient and present, and try to find the connection between things, so I'm often away for longer periods due to that among other things.

But, as I see it now, I should be able to conduct an experiment such as outlined above within the next few coming weeks.

So just be patient and wait until I have the time, allright.

cheers

I look forward to the challenge. It will be amusing. It's interesting that you won't do a test like this for a professor of science. Yet need to show your ability over forums. I think it is because you are afraid you will fail

"I actually make my living of traveling the world and researching various mysteries, both ancient and present, and try to find the connection between things, so I'm often away for longer periods due to that among other things."

How do you make a living that way?

Edited January 18, 2008 by SteveLove

[Sporkling]

I look forward to the challenge. It will be amusing. It's interesting that you won't do a test like this for a professor of science. Yet need to show your ability over forums. I think it is because you are afraid you will fail

So? he can ask to do this whatever way he likes. Its the end result that matters right?

[SteveLove]

So? he can ask to do this whatever way he likes. Its the end result that matters right?

Yes I just found that interesting, however. I wouldn't expect him to accept anything like Randi's challenge.

Edit: I think to make it the best conditions he should try the remote viewing with Eric, Kevin, myself, or chaos. At least not a new member so it can be easily staged.

Edited January 18, 2008 by SteveLove

[Sporkling]

but don't you agree that all of you together would be better?

[darkbreed]

Kevin:

Allright, I get you.

But, actually tests HAVE been done in front of qualified scientists and such, as in some examples I gave above in this thread, and scientific work IS performed on this, both in the Governments and in private sectors. Look up the Monroe Institute for examples one of the pioneers of out of body experiences research, with really useful material and lessons they've come up with through decades of research. I've personally tried out The Gateway Experience with great success.

You also have things like the Farsight institute (www.farsight.org) which offers FREE Remote Viewing lessons so YOU can, at the comfort of your own home, perform experiments and research regarding this aspect.

Universities all over the world are conducting psychic research.

Scientific community is into it.

Governmental institutions are involved with it.

And of course tons of people are doing it on their own with smaller groups of friends, or within secret orders and societies, and so on.

Personally, I believe the reason few step forth and say HEY look what I can do! Is simply because of the fact once you reach the level it takes to achieve such things first of all, you have no longer interest in proving it to others as you already have verified it to be real for yourself. At one point, before you had this verified, you might have been one of those who wanted it proven. But as soon you've proved it for yourself beyond any reasonable doubt there is little point in spending your time and energy in trying to find people who are interested in seeing such powers, or indeed even showing this powers to anyone else in the first place -- it becomes a deep spiritual aspect of yourself that is personal, and you don't want to be a person blown up in the media and what now for claiming to be a psychic, remote viewer, dowser, magician, and so on.

Most magicians and people who practice spiritual development do so in their own privacy without often even telling their closest friends about what they are really doing. One basic and logical reason for this is of course you may find yourself ridiculed if revealing such activities and beliefs and the other is that you simply don't feel any need of doing so.

On the other hand, you may find yourself interested in helping those who really want to learn such things, and have a belief in it already, and rather wants to know HOW to develop than see proofs on such development.

Personally i care not at all what people think, if they believe it is real or not.

The reason I offer my experiments here are simply for my own purpose, to see if I can get it right and get good results under a monitored experiment that is performed in front of a group of people rather than just for myself on my own.

Also regarding why I dont step up in front of some professor or something like that to prove any abilities: I have no interest to prove anything, and I'm shy too I dont like to be monitored by guys who are skeptic in the first place, in a way you can consider it being a guy who like to sing on your own and think you're good at singing, which you may in fact be, but never actually sing in front of other people or any audience.

I am a musician myself, but I prefer to make my music on my own, alone, doing solo stuff, rather than performing for other people - I do it because I like it, not to show anyone what I can do and so on. The same comes to writing, I have written many articles on various subjects, as well as working on some books, but I prefer to do that on my own anonymously, rather than helding large lectures and stuff like that.

Cheers

Edited January 18, 2008 by darkbreed

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

unfortunately I don't have that privilege like some of you seem to do who are posting almos every minute instead of being out doing something sensible such as work or studies. I guess you are lucky to have such time on your hands that you can spend all day sitting here criticizing and complaining in front of your computers instead of doing something useful.

But, unlike many others here, I'm a busy person with lots of work and things to do in my daily work, so the time I have to do such things are limited to specific periods now and then, thus why I'm frequently away for months without being active in here.

I actually make my living of traveling the world and researching various mysteries, both ancient and present, and try to find the connection between things, so I'm often away for longer periods due to that among other things.

But, as I see it now, I should be able to conduct an experiment such as outlined above within the next few coming weeks.

So just be patient and wait until I have the time, allright.

cheers

Kind of p***y post. I have a life. I am in real estate. So during the day in between phone calls, emails, and showings I always have UM up. I also have a family with 2 kids. I gurantee I have you beat on being busy, but I could make time to prove myself if I had supposed powers.

By the way, you seem to be on here quite a bit.

Edited January 18, 2008 by Eric Raven The Skeptic

[darkbreed]

Kind of p***y post. I have a life. I am in real estate. So during the day in between phone calls, emails, and showings I always have UM up. I also have a family with 2 kids. I gurantee I have you beat on being busy, but I could make time to prove myself if I had supposed powers.

By the way, you seem to be on here quite a bit.

Check the logs (if you have access to them) and see how "often" I am around.

I've been here for some days now, like a week. Last time was some month ago or so.

Actually check my posting history http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...;hl=&st=150

And you will se I'm not much around at all, it goes weeks and months between each time I have the opportunity to take some time to get around here as I travel a lot and do other work that keeps me away from the computer for longer periods of time.

And as I mentioned soon I have to go out travel again, maybe I have a month on me to prepare and get ready for the work I'll be doing, and then I'll be away for at least a month again.

[darkbreed]

I look forward to the challenge. It will be amusing. It's interesting that you won't do a test like this for a professor of science. Yet need to show your ability over forums. I think it is because you are afraid you will fail

How do you make a living that way?

If I was afraid I would fail I would not even offer to do any tests here. Besides I am currently in a country where I dont speak much of the local language as I travel around a lot due to my research in various fields. So it would be hard to both find such a person, as well as have the time to do those kind of things.

And I make a living that way partially by institutions supporting my organizations and my work, partially from private people who help fund the work, partially from magic and spiritual practices that assures me fortune and wealth, and partially from working a little on the side as a translator to gain extra funds, which is great as I work very little and gain a lot of money and have my own working hours, being my own boss, and a lot of free time on my hands to put into my main research, studies and field work which leads me around the world to interesting places.

For the moment I'm doing a south american project, which will take some time, as here is a lot of things worth studying and doing more research on. I do anthropological work, archaeological, historical, occult/spiritual/paranormal research among other things. And I guess you in general can call me an explorer and adventurer too, so my work is my hobby and the most important thing of my life that I totally dedicate myself to.

Also I'm working on a series of book to present my research and work that has been done for the last decade or so, as well as being involved with some documentary projects that are scheduled to get started later this year or next year, depending on various factors.

Cheers.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Check the logs (if you have access to them) and see how "often" I am around.

I've been here for some days now, like a week. Last time was some month ago or so.

Actually check my posting history http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...;hl=&st=150

And you will se I'm not much around at all, it goes weeks and months between each time I have the opportunity to take some time to get around here as I travel a lot and do other work that keeps me away from the computer for longer periods of time.

And as I mentioned soon I have to go out travel again, maybe I have a month on me to prepare and get ready for the work I'll be doing, and then I'll be away for at least a month again.

We will be waiting with baited breath for your testing. Peace.

[Fnordguy]

Well Skeptic, it looks like you're still waiting. The last time Psychicspy commented on this story was in January 2008.

I've seen this before. Psychic phenomenon has been debunked by scientists so consistently that there is one group lead by John Randi offering a cool $1,000,000 to anyone able to prove any psychic phenomenon that stands up to scientific scrutiny. People like the mentalist Derren Brown who can do "psychic" tricks even better than the charlatans who claim it's real and he maintains it's all just illusion and shows how he performs them quite often. There are other groups all over the place offering huge sums of money to have someone, anyone prove psychic phenomenon. These prizes go on year after year uncollected because nobody can prove psychic powers exist in reality. That doesn't mean there aren't clever tricks. Look up the following for example:

http://boingboing.net/2009/10/16/science-of-scams-der.html

http://www.skepdic.com/randi.html

http://listverse.com/2008/04/10/top-10-psychic-debunkings/

I could go on forever with links proving the trickery.

That's not to say there isn't a spiritual realm. I believe there is, but it never crosses into the physical realm enough to be proven. Anyone who dabbles in the occult, demonology, and so-forth (like psychicspy) are losing their souls to the Devil. The late Psychiatrist M. Scott Peck wrote about this and called them the "People of the Lie." People who dwell in the darkness need to repent of their sorceries and turn towards the truth, or the same spirit that possesses them in this life will have power over them in the afterlife.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Well Skeptic, it looks like you're still waiting. The last time Psychicspy commented on this story was in January 2008.

I've seen this before. Psychic phenomenon has been debunked by scientists so consistently that there is one group lead by John Randi offering a cool $1,000,000 to anyone able to prove any psychic phenomenon that stands up to scientific scrutiny. People like the mentalist Derren Brown who can do "psychic" tricks even better than the charlatans who claim it's real and he maintains it's all just illusion and shows how he performs them quite often. There are other groups all over the place offering huge sums of money to have someone, anyone prove psychic phenomenon. These prizes go on year after year uncollected because nobody can prove psychic powers exist in reality. That doesn't mean there aren't clever tricks. Look up the following for example:

http://boingboing.net/2009/10/16/science-of-scams-der.html

http://www.skepdic.com/randi.html

http://listverse.com/2008/04/10/top-10-psychic-debunkings/

I could go on forever with links proving the trickery.

That's not to say there isn't a spiritual realm. I believe there is, but it never crosses into the physical realm enough to be proven. Anyone who dabbles in the occult, demonology, and so-forth (like psychicspy) are losing their souls to the Devil. The late Psychiatrist M. Scott Peck wrote about this and called them the "People of the Lie." People who dwell in the darkness need to repent of their sorceries and turn towards the truth, or the same spirit that possesses them in this life will have power over them in the afterlife.

I think I will be waiting forever.

[phyciccurious]

im still a beginner in this but um people that are commenting and saying that this stuff is fake and crap like that need to shut up noone actually know if its real or not because if we did there wouldnt be so many people thinking different things so think what you like but dont be like trying to make people feel bad

[Virtual Particle]

How the mighty have fallen, when taking into consideration that they now are supported by an admired Magician....The Amazing Randi is even more amazing because he was able to trick skeptics into believing he is correct...OK so someone can imitate walking on water and make it look real, that does not mean that someone actually was able to walk on water...The idea that magic can replicate a psi event is not evidence that actual psi incidents are not valid...what do you know about the amazing Randi’s experience with indigenous cultures???

Majicians in order to make money and so what else is new??

Edited November 8, 2010 by Virtual Particle

[FlyingAngel]

His ability is fake or real is not really important. What's important is : has he helped and successfully cured lots of patients?

And well said Virtual Particle Maybe he really does have electrical energy inside his body without the need of a battery. Events could have the same effect without having the same cause.

Edited November 8, 2010 by FlyingAngel

[Virtual Particle]

It falls under the category of being rare but it does happen. As the below provides, at least two other people in the world are involved in research....the question more or less, today is not if...but how..

Joses talent has come to the attention of researchers at the University of Puerto Rico. They are impressed by a display of his skills and ask him to return in a week for further tests. In the meantime, Jose seeks out medical advice as to his condition. He agrees to have an electrocardiogram test to see if his exposure to electricity has caused him any lasting damage. Jose is nervous about the results, as doctors have warned him to stop his risky activities in the past. Fortunately, the exam shows his heart is functioning normally.

Elsewhere, in Brighton, a woman claims that she too has unusual electrical abilities. Debbie says that her body can randomly disrupt electrical appliances, from hairdryers to streetlights. When Im in the appropriate frame of mind, things around me blow up, she says. The only warning I have is a nanosecond beforehand, when I get a funny sort of tingly feeling. Despite her reluctance to fly for fear of what might happen to the electrics on the plane Debbie agrees to go on holiday. No sooner has she arrived, however, than her hotel suffers a mysterious blackout. Is this connected to her alleged ability?

Scientists at UCL are keen to investigate Debbies claims. They connect her to an oscilloscope and try to provoke her ability. Debbie is shown footage of Jose performing his tricks, on the basis that it might trigger her own powers. Remarkably, the level of electrical current in Debbies body rises in time with the scenes on the screen, reaching three times the normal level. Can researchers explain this result?

http://www.tvthrong.co.uk/extraordinary-people/extraordinary-people-electric-human

Edited November 9, 2010 by Virtual Particle

[Virtual Particle]

Skeptics the obvious point is that you have nothing to support your position....John Chang has not been debunked although you have....

Edited November 9, 2010 by Virtual Particle

[Sakari]

QUOTE (SteveLove @ Jan 18 2008, 03:37 AM) I look forward to the challenge. It will be amusing. It's interesting that you won't do a test like this for a professor of science. Yet need to show your ability over forums. I think it is because you are afraid you will fail

How do you make a living that way?

If I was afraid I would fail I would not even offer to do any tests here. Besides I am currently in a country where I dont speak much of the local language as I travel around a lot due to my research in various fields. So it would be hard to both find such a person, as well as have the time to do those kind of things.

And I make a living that way partially by institutions supporting my organizations and my work, partially from private people who help fund the work, partially from magic and spiritual practices that assures me fortune and wealth, and partially from working a little on the side as a translator to gain extra funds, which is great as I work very little and gain a lot of money and have my own working hours, being my own boss, and a lot of free time on my hands to put into my main research, studies and field work which leads me around the world to interesting places.

For the moment I'm doing a south american project, which will take some time, as here is a lot of things worth studying and doing more research on. I do anthropological work, archaeological, historical, occult/spiritual/paranormal research among other things. And I guess you in general can call me an explorer and adventurer too, so my work is my hobby and the most important thing of my life that I totally dedicate myself to.

Also I'm working on a series of book to present my research and work that has been done for the last decade or so, as well as being involved with some documentary projects that are scheduled to get started later this year or next year, depending on various factors.

Cheers.

Ok , your claims.....You have at least 4 things to make you 1 million dollars $$ on the Randi Challenge , and if you can even do one of them , that money is yours......Can you tell me what is stopping you from trying?

Oh , and about the " no touch knockout".......LOL

Another great "Chi" epic fail....

There is just a start of my " proof "......

Edited November 9, 2010 by Sakari

[Virtual Particle]

Sakari states...

Can you tell me what is stopping you from trying?

The Amazing Randi's Challenge ended earlier this year.....

[Sakari]

Sakari states...

The Amazing Randi's Challenge ended earlier this year.....

Well that just sucks......

Ok , then how about any and or all of these

here are others offering prizes to anyone who can demonstrate psychic powers. After collecting the million dollars from Randi, successful psychics might go to India and contact B. Premanandwho will pay Rs. 100,000 "to any person or persons who will demonstrate any psychic, supernatural of paranormal ability of any kind under satisfactory observing conditions." Also, "Prabir Ghoshwill pay Rs. 20,00,000* to anyone who claims to possess supernatural power of any kind and proves the same without resorting to any trick in the location specified by Prabir Ghosh."The Australian Skeptics offer $100,000 (Australian), $80,000 for the psychic and $20,000 for anyone "who nominates a person who successfully completes the Australian Skeptics Challenge." If you nominate yourself, and are successful, you get the whole hundred grand.The Association for Skeptical Inquiry (ASKE), a U.K. skeptic organization, offers £12,000 for proof of psychic powers.The Independent Investigations Group "offers a $50,000 prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event."The North Texas Skeptics offer $12,000 to any person who can demonstrate any psychic or paranormal power or ability under scientifically valid observing conditions.The Quebec Skeptics offer $10,000 to any astrologer who can demonstrate her craft according in a formal scientific experiment.The Tampa Bay Skeptics offer $1,000 to anyone able to demonstrate any paranormal phenomenon under mutually agreed-upon observing conditions.A group in New Zealand calling itself "Immortality" is offering a prize of $NZ2,000,000 to anyone "who can display an actual paranormal ability, under controlled conditions." One million goes to the successful applicant and one million to the charity of his or her choice.

[Virtual Particle]

To most indigenous mystics your money is considered evil....that relates to years of experience...the problem with these challenges are the same....not interested in your money...

[Sakari]

To most indigenous mystics your money is considered evil....that relates to years of experience...the problem with these challenges are the same....not interested in your money...

Was not asking you actually...

[Virtual Particle]

Was not asking you actually...

To put is bluntly it is the same crap under another name....I do not care who you were asking...

[Sakari]

To put is bluntly it is the same crap under another name....I do not care who you were asking...

???????

WTH did I do to you ?.....Disagree?

[White Crane Feather]

So right. The problem of course is that the depth, discapline, and faith of anyone that has powerful abilities would never allow themselves to be tested. The old playground argument of well if you won't do it, you can't is rediculouse. If you ask a lifelong martial artist to drmonstrate his skills. He will deny you. He might do if in a class for students, but to be challenged to do so snd then do it would be to sucumb to his own ego. Very indignant. Could you imagine Christ showing off or being tested. Would he sucumb to testing. If you don't beleive he is real then what about the character we know as Christ. Of course he wouldn't. The nature of true spiritual power and money are fundamentaly at odds. The type if person to acheive that level of awareness is beyond temptation. If those that have it do show it is probably in an attempt to educate and help people with faith.

Honestly even myself. I recently agreed to experiment with my spiritwalking, and offer up my results. It seemed the normal course of an inquisitive person. It was all my own idea. As soon as did I felt sick about it. I don't want to do it.....indeed I don't even think I can. Meaningful spiritual energy does not care about doubt. Randy cotoure won't kick your ass if you challenge him, he will just laugh.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Seeker79

[White Crane Feather]

???????

WTH did I do to you ?.....Disagree?

Post in pm if you don't want someone to repond this is a forum.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Seeker79