Atheist God Posted February 14, 2008 #176 Share Posted February 14, 2008 But is it not true that to the people believing, this is not just assumption? It doesn't matter what your beliefs may be saying that something has to be true just because people say it is is an assumption bottom line. You assume some cases are true and I am simply pointing out that there is no evidence for this... belief is not evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporkling Posted February 14, 2008 #177 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Yes I understand you are just pointing out what you think. I am also pointing out what I think. I think that evidence is not everything (not to go against you though) this is my belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atheist God Posted February 14, 2008 #178 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Yes I understand you are just pointing out what you think. I am also pointing out what I think. I think that evidence is not everything (not to go against you though) this is my belief. No I am pointing out an obvious fact that I know not what i think... Of all the claims of TK made there is no evidence at all, so again what you believe or want to believe is not the issue. You can go ahead and think what you want to but evidence is everything or at least it is when you are trying to confirm the existence of something especially something of this nature. Your belief stems from the fact there is no evidence and is clearly nothing more then a cop out by someone who can't provide anything except their word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallSignWolf Posted February 14, 2008 #179 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Telekinesis is make believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporkling Posted February 14, 2008 #180 Share Posted February 14, 2008 No I am pointing out an obvious fact that I know not what i think... Of all the claims of TK made there is no evidence at all, so again what you believe or want to believe is not the issue. You can go ahead and think what you want to but evidence is everything or at least it is when you are trying to confirm the existence of something especially something of this nature. Your belief stems from the fact there is no evidence and is clearly nothing more then a cop out by someone who can't provide anything except their word. I don't feel the need of proving anything to you or to anyone else. I believe because I believe. My belief stems from the fact there is no evidence. True very true. Because of the fact I don't believe in science. People can provide more than their word but still you need to believe what they say first instead of thinking someone owes you proof. I do not owe you any proof. And nobody owes you any either. Its a matter of belief when you are talking about the paranormal. If you do not believe, then there is nothing I can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight bits Posted February 14, 2008 #181 Share Posted February 14, 2008 There are so many claims from all over the place. Surely some of them are valid. You've said something like that before. Why do you think that? Take dreamland's report. No question that it was valid. Tom and I (and I hope others, too) verified it for ourselves. The bottlecap moves, exactly as dreamland described. Where there is some difference is in the interpretation of the report. And there are really only two theories: gravity versus another power of the universe to be named later. A claim, I think, is a report coupled with an interpretation. Something happened and here is why it happened. So, people all over the world are reading us. Potentially, reports could come in from all over the world that the bottlecap moves. Great, there was no issue about the report's truth anyway. But what of the interpretation? Some people are going to claim gravity, some people are going to claim another power. Both theories will have "many claims from all over the place," but the claims for one of the theories must be invalid, since one interpretation excludes the other. I fully agree with you that "I do not believe X, so I know there is no X" is not a scientific argument, regardless of any scientific consensus regarding the status of X. But "Many people claim X, so X is true" cannot be a valid argument unless there was a general consensus about X. It may not be a valid argument even then, but that doesn't matter, because it can't get over even this hurdle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporkling Posted February 14, 2008 #182 Share Posted February 14, 2008 This hurdle is not a hurdle because its only one who cannot get past the hurdle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight bits Posted February 14, 2008 #183 Share Posted February 14, 2008 This hurdle is not a hurdle because its only one who cannot get past the hurdle. Thank you for sharing. So are you going to do the bottlecap thing or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporkling Posted February 14, 2008 #184 Share Posted February 14, 2008 explain the process again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight bits Posted February 14, 2008 #185 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Here's dreamland's method: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...t&p=2144522 Basically: get a fair-sized book (I used a slightly oversized paperback), place it on a firm and more-or-less level surface. Place a cylindical bottlecap on the book, so that it can roll if the spirit moves it, so to speak. I used the bottlecap from some bottled water (cylindical shape, ridges so it sits nicely while waiting, plastic). You place one of your hands on the book. And then you think or whatever you want to get the bottlecap to roll, except no touching the bottlecap, blowing on it, etc., obviously. Success is that the bottlecap rolls 4 or 5 cm., and then retraces its path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakonwick Posted February 14, 2008 #186 Share Posted February 14, 2008 (edited) Here's dreamland's method: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...t&p=2144522 Basically: get a fair-sized book (I used a slightly oversized paperback), place it on a firm and more-or-less level surface. Place a cylindical bottlecap on the book, so that it can roll if the spirit moves it, so to speak. I used the bottlecap from some bottled water (cylindical shape, ridges so it sits nicely while waiting, plastic). You place one of your hands on the book. And then you think or whatever you want to get the bottlecap to roll, except no touching the bottlecap, blowing on it, etc., obviously. Success is that the bottlecap rolls 4 or 5 cm., and then retraces its path. It's interesting how well this method works! I tried several more times with different surfaces; I pretty much got the same effect as eight bits has stated. Placing the bottle cap on the really thick, solid counter top, did not work well. Using a good sized paper back book seems to work the best. Regards, Tom Edited February 14, 2008 by Vanquish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atheist God Posted February 14, 2008 #187 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I don't feel the need of proving anything to you or to anyone else. I believe because I believe. My belief stems from the fact there is no evidence. True very true. Because of the fact I don't believe in science. People can provide more than their word but still you need to believe what they say first instead of thinking someone owes you proof. I do not owe you any proof. And nobody owes you any either. Its a matter of belief when you are talking about the paranormal. If you do not believe, then there is nothing I can do. I never said anyone owed me anything, however if people are going to make claims I need more then their word. Fact is I don't need to believe what people say to look for evidence and I have. If you don't believe in scientific method to achieve progress and make new discovery then you should throw you computer in the trash, move into the wilderness and live off the land w/o any of the luxuries you enjoy today. I have never told anyone what they can or cannot believe nor will I however I will give my opinion about those beliefs and why they are flawed. Perhaps once you get older and realize that people cannot in fact do as they claim your views will change. If something exists there has to be evidence of some kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Xues Posted February 14, 2008 #188 Share Posted February 14, 2008 and evidence can be measured .... somehow question is how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atheist God Posted February 15, 2008 #189 Share Posted February 15, 2008 and evidence can be measured .... somehow question is how? While we may not be able to specifically isolate the mechanics at work such abilities like for example TK could be demonstrated in a lab setting under strict controls to ensure that hoaxing is not a possibility. You could from here measure the extent of the ability and begin to study what the possible mechanics behind such an ability are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporkling Posted February 15, 2008 #190 Share Posted February 15, 2008 While we may not be able to specifically isolate the mechanics at work such abilities like for example TK could be demonstrated in a lab setting under strict controls to ensure that hoaxing is not a possibility. You could from here measure the extent of the ability and begin to study what the possible mechanics behind such an ability are.This is an excellent statement. It shows you think before posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DfizzleShizzle Posted February 15, 2008 #191 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Hehe, even I will admit Chris Angel is an illusionist...He's one of the people who makes psychics look bad...He just adds to our already horrible image....THANKS CHRIS, FOR GETTING RICH, AND MAKING ALL THE REAL PSYCHICS AND PSIONS TO LOOK MORE LIKE IDOTS!!! LETS ALL THROW HIM A CONGRATULATORY BRUNCH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skeptic Eric Raven Posted February 15, 2008 #192 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Hehe, even I will admit Chris Angel is an illusionist...He's one of the people who makes psychics look bad...He just adds to our already horrible image....THANKS CHRIS, FOR GETTING RICH, AND MAKING ALL THE REAL PSYCHICS AND PSIONS TO LOOK MORE LIKE IDOTS!!! LETS ALL THROW HIM A CONGRATULATORY BRUNCH!!! I like Criss. He points how fraudulent psychics are. He calls them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DfizzleShizzle Posted February 16, 2008 #193 Share Posted February 16, 2008 No, he IS one of the fradulent psychics....It makes the genuine ones look like kooks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DfizzleShizzle Posted February 16, 2008 #194 Share Posted February 16, 2008 No, he IS one of the fradulent psychics....It makes the genuine ones look like kooks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DfizzleShizzle Posted February 16, 2008 #195 Share Posted February 16, 2008 No, he IS one of the fradulent psychics....It makes the genuine ones look like kooks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atheist God Posted February 16, 2008 #196 Share Posted February 16, 2008 No, he IS one of the fradulent psychics....It makes the genuine ones look like kooks... Actually he says he's not the real deal and what he does in an act... he can replicate supposed abilities with simple trickery and special effect. Eric is right when he say the Criss points out how fraudulent other people are on TV by admitting he has no special abilities. To take it one step further he also plays off of how gullible people like you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporkling Posted February 16, 2008 #197 Share Posted February 16, 2008 I don't care what he has or does not have. Why should I? He is he I am I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight bits Posted February 16, 2008 #198 Share Posted February 16, 2008 He is he I am I Another good one is from the classic Flowers for Algernon: That which is is that which is not is not Anyway, how you coming with the bottle cap thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporkling Posted February 16, 2008 #199 Share Posted February 16, 2008 (edited) Yes it turned out well. But it did not work if I put it flat. I had to put it on its rounded side. By the way, have you tried using a leaf? Edited February 16, 2008 by Electrokinesis is me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight bits Posted February 16, 2008 #200 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Yes it turned out well. But it did not work if I put it flat. I had to put it on its rounded side. Yes, that's right. By the way, have you tried using a leaf? There are not many leaves around here these days. But tell me more, and I can try in a few months. I owe you (from a promise made in another thread) whistling in a graveyard. I did this about 48 hours ago, and here is my report. I whistled Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star repeatedly while walking past and through the local graveyard, as requested. (Harder than it sounds, continuous whistling makes for funny breathing when walking in chilly air.) No abnormal events have happened then or since. I envy the really stunning imagery in primordial's post about his(?) graveyard experience: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...t&p=2150394 I can't report anything like that, but it was a beautiful, sunny day here, and that is something at this time of the year. Graveyards honor life. Ours has graves that span almost two centuries. To walk through it is to immerse yourself in the possibilities of life. Some graves have lavish monuments, others are barely marked at all. It would be nice to say that it is all the same in death, whether someone was rich or poor in life, but it is not. With a meter of accumulated snow, only the richer folks' names are visible today. The earth will have to be reborn before full equality among the dead reigns again. Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star apparently didn't stir anything, but I hope it didn't sound out-of-place, either. Better yet, I hope it evoked a friendly memory or two if anybody happened to be listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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